A440

The problem with units that only have line-in is that you're going to have to tote along an extra box, and what you really need is going to be just about as expensive as getting an older-model MD with a mic input. A mic input means the unit has a built-in preamp and provides power to the mic. Line input has no preamp. You might want to sell the S1 and look on Ebay for an MZ-N707 (if you want NetMD for transferring mp3s/CDs to minidisc) or an MZ-R700 (if you just want a recorder). You can pick up an MZ-R700 these days for under $100 and an MZ-N707 for under $150--use your common sense about the sellers, and don't get one that looks in any way worn or dented. They're both less bulky than the S1, and you can make very decent recordings with just mics and a Radio Shack headphone volume control (search this site for posts on that trick). If you're committed to the S1, it depends what you're planning to record. To record loud music, you can get away with a set of mics and a battery box like the ones in your links. If you're trying to record anything quiet you're going to need a mic preamp to boost the signal, and those get expensive. Microphone Madness, Soundprofessionals (www.soundprofessionals.com) and the slightly more expensive Core Sound (www.core-sound.com) all make little mics and preamps that will do most jobs. Soundprofessionals also has a very comprehensive FAQ that explains all the basics.

The good thing is that you're connected now, so all that's left is tweaking. Audacity is very well-behaved and is only a recorder/editor--it won't try to play back your CDs or mp3s. The volume should be a matter of adjusting volume out of the MD and volume in on the Recorder. It's possible that if the incoming signal was extremely low that the static is just the recorder trying to compensate. Otherwise crackly is a little harder to diagnose, but could just be a simple connector problem. Just to make sure everything's connected properly, have you tried playing a CD on your computer through the Extigy? (You may have to go into Settings--Control Panel--Sounds or Multimedia (depends on Windows version) and set playback through the Extigy, or it may already be set that way). If there's a problem with that, make sure the USB's fully plugged in and volume knob is turned up on the Extigy (it goes around and around forever, by the way, and doesn't stop at the maximum--that's how it's made, for some reason). There's always a slight possibility the Extigy itself is $%&@%$&, but you've got a warranty. Assuming that CD playback sounds normal, try just playing the MD through the Extigy without the Recorder in between: headphone out to line in, and listen through the Extigy's headphone jack. That will tell you if the 1/8 to 1/8 cord is OK--sometimes Radio Shack has a lemon. Conceivably the recording is good and it might just be a Windows playback adjustment. If you have a little speaker icon in your Windows system tray (bottom right), click on it and make sure Microphone and Auxiliary and MIDI are unchecked--all you want going through there are Wave Out, CD-Rom and maybe Line In. Or go to Start--Programs--Accessories--Entertainment--Volume Control and do the same thing. It's also possible the Recorder is trying to record from more than one source at the same time, and getting static from other inputs. Make sure only line-in is checked. If you switch to Audacity, it will only take one source at a time, so that would eliminate that possibility. Try these and see if they work. Meanwhile, you can use your mediocre recording to experiment with editing. With WaveStudio or Audacity, you should be able to open the file and see the waveform. You can just Select chunks of it (probably by holding down Shift) and delete them, put them in new files, etc. Keep tweaking, you'll get there.

It's probably under Creative Audio--just click around. Another way to find it would be Start-->Find-->Recorder, and see what Creative folder it's in. Or ignore Creative and download and install good old free Audacity. The mixer is about midway up, just above the numbers (-1.0, etc.), and it probably already has Line In selected and the volume controls up. Connect the MD, click the big red button and push Play on the MD. You can also edit the recorded track in Audacity. http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Linda-- I guess I'm spoiled--my laptop has 3 USB ports. You would only need a second USB port if you use the Extigy WITH WinNetMD, since that sends track info through the NetMD connection. But if you don't have a second USB connection, the heck with it. Just record the whole MD into a recording program--Creative Recorder that comes with the card will do it. For the MD, you might as well use AC power, just to be sure, though as long as your battery doesn't run down you'd also be fine with that. Plumbing again: out of the MD and into the PC via plug-to-plug. Just as you used the Mic Input to get the music (source) into the MD recorder, now you're using the MD as the source out to the PC as the recorder. The connection is via the Line In jack on the soundcard. First, make sure the PC will listen to the MD. Go to Programs/Creative/Sound Blaster Extigy/ Creative Recorder (might be named slightly differently--it's on my other computer) and open the Recorder. It probably has an Options or Mixer to tell it where to record from--put a check mark on Line In, make sure any volume control is up. You may also have an option to specify what format it's recorded in, like .wav or .mp3. Make sure it's using .wav--better fidelity. Set it once and forget about it. The 1/8 plug-to-plug connector goes from Headphone Out (not Mic) to Line In on the soundcard. (Don't worry about the remote-control pins.) Click the Record button, play the MD and you should be good to go. As the sound goes into Recorder you should see a nice fat crinkly waveform in the Recorder window. It it's flattened on the top, it's distorting, and you need to turn down the output volume from the MD or the volume control on the Recorder's mixer. If it's really narrow then you probably need to turn up the output volume on the MD or the mixer. You'll have to experiment with these settings, so just record a short track the first time to test. But once you find settings that work, note them and use them the next time. If you plug a pair of headphones into the Extigy's headphone jack (on the front below Line In), you can monitor the sound from the MD as it's recording. Once you're sure it's coming through clearly, you can leave it to record unattended. After it's recorded, you can play back .wav files with Windows Media Player, Realplayer, Winamp, the Creative Player or whatever else is playing back CDs on your computer. Once the MD has been recorded into the PC, it's yours to play and play with. You could use Creative WaveStudio to cut it into separate tracks. You play it back, listen and watch the waveform and decide by ear or eye where you want to cut it. I haven't used WaveStudio, so I don't know if you can simply insert track marks or if you need to select each track and paste it into a new file (like cutting and pasting text, only it's a sound). The tracks can be burned to CD with whatever CD burning program you have. BTW, Creative's Minidisc Center is only for exporting music to MD, so it's not relevant here. Despite this long and elaborate post, you'll easily get the hang of it. It's as if your PC is just a big ol' cassette recorder listening to the MD. Happy recording.

The MZ-R900 isn't a NetMD unit, so Sonic Stage is not for you--there's no USB connection on the MZ-R900 for Sonic Stage to work through. Might as well uninstall it. You're just going to use your computer as a sound recorder in real time . Check this thread. ]http://forums.minidisc.org/viewtopic.php?t=4276

Thanks for the Magix info, Anont. Sorry to hear you had Audigy problems. I know Creative has its detractors, and I'm definitely not saying the Extigy is perfect. I've posted before that it's best to install the software Custom with the absolute minimum of modules. But after I read your post I ran some music and silence through my Extigy and didn't hear any hiss, and it's definitely an improvement over my laptop soundcard. I've got it about 3 feet away from my laptop, on a lower shelf, so maybe that lessens interference problems. A review I read of the Philips Aurilium said it's got better audio than Extigy, so that might be worth investigating. But the Aurilium draws power from the USB rather than a wall adapter, and I don't know if that's an improvement.

No moving parts except on-off switch and volume control, so used is probably fine if it's not abused. You can find them used on Ebay. It's also worth checking Creative's website, which sometimes has serious rebates if you get it new. The cheapest price I found was for a factory-refurbished one with a 30-day guarantee, from Creative itself on Ebay--$70 plus $15 shipping. Mine works fine. I don't know why people on Ebay were paying more for used ones. There are other external soundcards too: Creative's higher-grade Audigy, and Philips' Aurilium. Probably more expensive, but you might shop around.

Audition is the renamed CoolEdit. I've used Cool Edit with the Imic, and it works fine. Goldwave should also, like any other program that records through line-in. The iMic is an adapter to get the music into your soundcard, while the Extigy completely takes over for your soundcard. Whether the Extigy is an improvement really depends on the quality of the soundcard already installed. If it's a little laptop, probably yes--a good desktop with a brand-name soundcard, maybe not.

If you're getting a Sony forget the 410 and any 500 model for concert recording. It needs to have a microphone input: MZ-N1, MZ-N10, or MZ-R7xx, MZ-R9xx, MZ-N7xx, MZ-N9xx. Or look around for Sharp IM-DR420 at around $250. Or wait another month or so for the Hi-MD models, which promise to have digital uploading. They don't have built-in mics. You wouldn't want to be holding the unit in your hand during a concert anyway.

Once the music has been digitally recorded in your computer, it's yours to play with, just like a ripped CD. You will have recorded it as .mp3 files or .wav files. You can play it in your PC player, burn it to CD, share it on KaZaa, DJ a big dance party.... If your computer has a CD burner it probably has a CD burning program, like Adaptec or Roxio or whatever, that will burn .wav files (high-quality CD audio) or .mp3 to CD. Otherwise, free ones are all over the internet. Here's one at Cnet: http://download.com.com/3000-2646-10280818...ml?tag=lst-0-15 Ah, the big question. The short answer is that Sony is a schizophrenic company: electronics and music. The tech guys come up with amazing palm-size digital recorders, and then the record-company guys get all upset that they could be used to copy music. (Noooo!) So Sony decided to made the MD a dead end: music goes in, but digital files can't come out. Hence the whole one-way NetMD: you can dump digital music files into the MD but not get them out digitally. Fine if you want a player--Ipod is the same, tethered to the computer--but annoying for those of us who record. How they convinced Sharp, which is only an electronics company, to go along with NetMD is a mystery. Now, under commercial pressure from unrestricted hard-drive recorders from Archos, Iriver, Philips and Creative--which can upload digital files, but aren't as small or as microphone-friendly as MDs--Sony is about to introduce Hi-MD, which promises genuine digital uploading. But some of the fine print I've read here suggests that the uploads are going to get trapped in Sonic Stage, and I wonder if Sony is still going to try and restrict them somehow. If not, I'll be thrilled with Hi-MD. Meanwhile, even if we both upgrade to Hi-MD, if your old soundcard was as lame as most built-in soundcards you'll still be happy you got the Extigy, because you'll hear the improvement through your headphones on everything you play in the computer. And when next-generation Windows starts trying to lock down music with software and hardware "upgrades", you'll still have the outputs.

Linda-- The long plug is your actual headphone plug. The shorter pins are the remote control connection (and probably radio on that model, I'm not sure). On my MZ-N707 they're all outlined together in black, but they're really two separate things. The headphones can plug into one end of the remote control--which plugs into both the headphone jack and the remote connector--or directly into the headphone jack. There are a number of things you have to do only once, and then you can record from MD to PC forever. Basically what you're doing is sending the sound out of the headphones and into the computer via sound card--an analog connection, sorry not USB--and a sound recording program. If you don't want to spring for WinNetMD, you can record the MD as one long track with other recording software, maybe even with the Extigy's software. EDIT: OK, I looked at Extigy's Playcenter software. Under Sound Blaster Extigy, it has a Recorder and an audio editor, WaveStudio, so you won't need another recording program unless you want WinNetMD's track-info feature. Creative's Minidisc Center just collects tracks to output from PC to CD. If you use WinNetMD, as it records it also sends track info from the MD's USB port to the computer and makes each track a separate .wav or .mp3 file, easier for burning later. One-time chores: Once your Extigy is installed--directions on and in the box--make sure in Windows Control Panel (Start-Settings-Control Panel--Sounds or Multimedia) that sound is going both in and out through the Extigy. If you do want to use WinNetMD, you need to install Sonic Stage 1 (came with your MD) and the Microsoft .net Framework (free 25MB download) and to buy WinNetMD (under $20). Did your MZ-N810 come with all its cords? If not, you may need to get a USB to mini-USB cord. (Try searching MZ-N810 USB on Ebay.) Here's the hookup I use with the Extigy and WinNetMD. With the plug-to-plug cord, connect headphone out from the MD to Line-in on the Extigy (it's clearly marked on the front). Then, with the USB cord, connect from the mini-USB on the MD to another USB port on your computer. The display on the MD will look something like PC-->MD. (Little do they know you're going in the opposite direction.) If you can switch the output to Line Out on the MD--through the Menus--then do that. If not, remove any bass boost or other changes you've made to Sound. Turn the volume up about 75% of the way. Start WinNetMD. It will list the tracks on the MD--information it's getting through the USB connection and Sonic Stage. Select the tracks you want to record or all of them. There's a recording-level setting on WinNetMD--mine is set at 18%. (You may have to experiment with volume out of the MD and recording level; record one track, or part of it, and see how it sounds. But when you find settings that work you can always use them, so write them down.) Click Record on WinNetMD. Take a stroll, read a book, have dinner, watch a video, call your mom, whatever, for the length of your recording (realtime). Return to your PC and the tracks will be in there, nicely numbered. Again, this is only going to be a pain the first time. Once you have the settings, all you have to do is connect the MD, start WinNetMD (or recording program of your choice) and let it roll, baby, roll.

Linda: I think the pins you're talking about are for the remote control--in a rectangle to the right of the actual headphone jack. But you can plug any headphone with a miniplug into the round hole and use the controls on the unit itself. $50 per MD seems mighty steep for something you can do yourself. As for recording software, I've used CoolEdit/Audition (expensive, full-featured, snazzy), WinNetMD (under $20, specialized for NetMD, automatically transfers track marks and titles, but no sound-manipulating features) and Audacity (free, lots of features). Links and info are on Page 1 of this thread. I'd be curious to hear from you or anyone else who has used Creative's Playcenter and its minidisc options about what they do and how well they work. Anont: How do you get the track marks via Magix? I have it installed and would love to use it. Is it just cut-and-paste where the applause makes white noise, or is there something more automated like WinNetMD?

You're going to be using the headphone jack of the MD recording to send sound out to your computer. But I'm curious about that Mic jack. What make/model MD recorder do you have? Incidentally, the Extigy has some software specific to Minidisc, though I've never used it. But you might want to try it.

There's also www.microphonemadness.com and for non-stealth mics, a world of musical instrument, pro audio and electronics stores, like: www.bhphoto.com www.samash.com www.microphonesolutions.com www.guitarcenter.com

The MZ-N505 only has Line input, which needs a powered signal. Computer out is a line-strength signal. Mic plus battery box plus loud music should be enough (barely), but the mic by itself is not. For quieter mic recording you'll need a preamp, and at that point it's probably less expensive to get a Mic-In MD model instead: Sonys numbered 700 and up or the N1 or N10. Check the equipment browser.

The terminology may be fancy, but don't get intimidated. Think of it as plumbing--you're piping the sound out of the MD (Headphone Out) into the computer (Line In). Line In looks like your basic stereo plug. It's probably near your headphone jack on your PC, and looks the same, maybe labeled Audio In. If you have your computer manual, see if it has a diagram of the ports. The cord is a simple cord with a stereo plug on both ends--like your headphone cord with another plug instead of headphones. It's a standard cable, at Radio Shack or hardware stores. Bring along your headphones to compare the size. Some laptops (like mine) only have Mic-In and not Line-In (to save space and $$). If it's not labeled Mic-In, it may have a little microphone icon instead. If so, you can go from headphone out into Mic-In--same cord-- but that sends the signal through a pre-amp that adds noise and distortion. You'll have to use lower levels on the volume coming out of the MD and/or the levels set on the recording program. Either way, try it first before investing in anything else--it might do the job for you. On my PC, the Mic-In jack was loose and crackly, so I had to escalate, as follows. The easiest way to add Line In is with the Griffin iMic, which is not a microphone but a USB connector for sound input/output. It looks like a little flying saucer, Mac style, but also works with Windows 98 and later PCs. http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/imic/ It has Line In, Line Out, Mic In and Mic Out jacks and plugs into a USB port. I was using one for awhile, and it does the job. $40 list, often discounted (all over Ebay). You're still using your PC's soundcard, which may or may not be ideal. Escalating further: The easiest way to add a soundcard, if you have desk space, is to get an external one that you can plug into a USB port, no physical installation required. Windows recognizes it as Plug and Play or you run an installation CD. I have a Creative Labs Extigy refurbished by Creative Labs itself, which cost me $85 (incl postage) and works fine--Creative Labs sells them through Ebay, I think with a 90-day guarantee. It has all kinds of inputs and outputs and a volume control, and sounds much better than the soundcard in my laptop did. http://www.soundblaster.com/products/extigy/ My only gripe is the software, which tries to take over all the playback on the computer--do a Custom installation and install as little as possible of the "suite." There are also Options to prevent it loading its own player at startup, etc., once it's installed. It's annoying but it can be overcome . If you have a desktop you can also install an internal soundcard yourself. All you have to do is open the box, take out the old soundcard (a matter of unscrewing a few screws and pulling it out of the socket), and gently plug in a new one (and redo the screws). I'm no computer engineer, but I've installed various cards and it's completely straightforward. People have recommended Turtle Beach and Creative Labs/Soundblaster models as good for music. Just check to see if whatever models are available now have Line-In. (Optical in and out is also nice but not essential.) If you search "soundcard" on this forum you should find some other info.

You can find WinNetMD information in the link I left at the beginning of this thread. OK, here it is again. http://christian.klukas.bei.t-online.de/fi...md/winNetMD.htm I place the track marks during the recording. If I know that I pushed the button at the wrong time, I go back, listen and fast-forward and remove/replace whatever marks were in the wrong place on the MD. It's a lot quicker than dumping a 1Gb file into the hard drive and trying to determine from the waveform, or a lot of listening, where the breaks are all over again. WinNetMD connects via the USB connector for track information and via headphone out/line in to record. It needs OpenMG or Sonic Stage 1 to work; it also needs Microsoft's .net framework installed. When you open it, it lists the tracks on the MD--with titles, if you've put them in--and you can decide which ones you want to record. It will then record each selected track as a separate .wav or .mp3 file with the title. That gives you tracks that are ready for computer play or CD burning. It doesn't do all the other things a full recording program will do. But for getting music from MP3 to PC, it's ideal. I'm still wondering why my Magix 4.0 is demanding a surcharge for MP3 encoding when all sorts of programs, from Audacity to DB Power Amp, will do it for free.

Thanks for clarifying, Eltel. People who are new to this might have misunderstood your previous posts. As for me, if I've already edited the minidisc by placing track marks, there's no "fun and interest" in doing the same thing again with Magix. WinNetMD will continue to do that job for me.

If it's not NetMD you can't go any faster than realtime. The unit itself just doesn't support anything but realtime recording. The PCLK-MN20 only downloads to a NetMD unit. Otherwise it's just a USB to optical out from your PC. This link points out that it needs NetMD. http://www.nitro-computers.co.uk/Computer_...y_PCLKMN20.html

How does Magix Audio Cleaning Lab recognize tracks? I'm using version 4.0 and I see it has Automatic CD Track Recognition, but I'm talking about recognizing MD tracks from a live recording the way WinNetMD does (and it needs a USB connection to get that info). I just tried recording in a live microphone recording that has track marks, with Auto CD Track Recog checked, and Magix Audio didn't pick up the MD track marks--it was all one long track. Live shows don't have those convenient silences between tracks. The Magix Help file index doesn't even recognize "minidisc." If there's a way to get it to pick up MD track marks, please enlighten me. Also, although my version is activated, it seems to want some additional activation code for MP3 encoding.

The MZ-R700 and MZ-N707 also have AutoRec. I've owned an MZ-R900, and it is a tougher build than either MZ-N707 or MZ-R700. But I didn't recommend it for two reasons I've mentioned elsewhere on these boards. One is the battery latch, which comes open too easily in a pocket or bag--I had to tape it shut, too, and my MZ-R900 was in great condition. The other is the little flat gumstick battery. You have to bring along the adapter to recharge the gumstick, which is one more thing in your bag if you're traveling, plus plug adapter(s). Or you have to bring the external battery pod, which is one more thing to lose and adds bulk and dorkiness to the MZ-R900. Lose it, and you're going to be stuck recharging gumsticks. Of course, you'll have to bring along a spare gumstick, too. Personally I don't mind the little battery bulge for the AA in the MZ-R700 or MZ-N707. If you're adding track marks in the dark it gives you a grip and an orientation for the unit. And you can find AAs for sale everywhere. I see Sony has preserved this distinction with the Hi-MDs: the 900 with a flat back, special battery and external AA pod and the 700 with bulge and AA form factor battery. A mistake, in my opinion, and one that's going to mean a tough decision about whether the HD amp in the 900 is worth the battery hassle.

Look at the www.minidisc.org Equipment Browser and check Inputs on each unit. Anything with a Mic-In jack will serve your purposes. But most new units with Mic-In will run you over $200. I've had excellent, reliable recording success with Sony MZ-R700 and MZ-N707, both discontinued models that are all over Ebay at under $150. Obviously, use your judgment about the seller and condition. The MZ-R700 is older and doesn't have NetMD for fast downloading, while the MZ-N707 does have NetMD, is slightly newer and has a later version of the ATRAC compression. But if you're only recording via mic, the difference is probably minimal. Don't worry about battery life--one AA provides power for much longer than you'd expect. Neither unit has a Mic Sensitivity switch for dealing with loud sounds like live rock music. For that you need the MZ-R900, MZ-N1, MZ-N10 or MZ-N9xx. Or you can run the mic through a $5.99 Radio Shack headphone volume control to lower the sensitivity. Other folks swear by Sharp for live recording, but they're much rarer on Ebay--maybe because people keep them longer. You might want to think twice about that mic because anything you plug directly into the MD is going to pick up motor noise. At the very least, put that mic on a cord to separate it from the MD.

Agreed that all the MZ-Rs are stuck with realtime recording and editing, but let's not forget that NetMD models can use WinNetMD to do realtime recording that makes each track a separate file. http://christian.klukas.bei.t-online.de/fi...md/winNetMD.htm

There are apparently built-in hardware as well as software limitations that prevent NetMD from uploading. It's not as if people haven't been trying. For instance: http://www.marcus-brinkmann.de/files/freemd.html Of course, if you can outdo the folks who have been patiently working on it since NetMD was released, hack the header information yourself and enable USB uploading, everyone here would certainly love to see the solution.

Magix Audio has a lot of capabilities that look promising, but as far as getting the sound from the MD into the PC, it will work the same as Audacity or CoolEdit/Audition or any other sound recording/editing program. That is, it will record from the MD as one long track that you have to edit. WinNetMD (link is in previous post above) is a lot more convenient if you have a NetMD recorder and you've already edited the track marks onto the MD. It records each track to a separate .wav file, and will also just record selected tracks. It's a real time-saver: one realtime recording session, and then you have individual tracks ready to burn to CD or whatever. The only question is whether it's compatible yet with SonicStage 2--it works great with Sonic Stage 1 or even the awful Open MG.