lamewing

I am a bit confused in regards to Sony and its stance on portable DAP and MD/HiMD design from the last couple of years. I would love to hear folks opinions on this subject. It seems that Sony cannot come up with a solid design in regards (for now let's stick to DAPs). First we have the NW1,2,3 series, which overall were similar. Then we had the NW5 with the (finally) replaceable battery, which seemed like a logical step forward. Now their next DAP will, once again, return to the interal battery. Let us not forget the lovely Pocket Vaio which in many ways eclipses all of the above models. Not only are we dealing with the battery issue, but the fact that in a very short time, Sony has totally changed the physical design at least twice, maybe more if I am forgetting something. One of the things that has kept the iPod in the publics eye was that the iPod hasn't changed physically that much. Except for the mini and the U2 model (and the black nano) all of them have had a white front and the silver back. Heck even the nano's and the U2 have the silver back. It would seem to me that if Sony would keep a similar look to their players (and not the god-awful "gumdrop" look) more folks my recognize them. Does anyone have any insight as to what was Sony's thinking regarding their DAPs? Joe

After much thought and trial I have ended up with a Cowon X5L and a MZ-NH1. It looks like it its time to invest in another couple of recorders to last me until sony comes directly to my home and takes a sledgehammer to them. Of course if Sony just keeps one "pro" unit I would be happy. Especially if it is of high quality parts, metal casing, full bells and whistles. I am sure many of use would buy them. We will see. Kurisu, what made you decide to post this thread? Any news we aren't aware of? Joe

I think that Sony and all should totally KILL MD/HIMD in the US? Why? To allow Sony to make the best player/recroder out there? How? Well, the limitation Sony has in the U.S. is that MD is considered an audio device and therefore has all the restrictions that go with a digital audio recorder, while the HD players are free of restrictions since they are computer equipment. Correct me if I am wrong here. Now, with that limitation removed AND IF Sony really wanted to (dreaming here) they could give us a solid build device that records with optical in/out, usb connections, and drag and drop..with support for all codecs. Also drop the camera nonesnese OR give a truly grand HIMD/camera (5MP or so)/with full recording capabilities. Add to that long battery life (no more NW10?? batteries), etc. If HIMD/MD is going to be limited to pro use, why not finally make the unit we want. It is not like we don't import them as it is. Audiocubes, Minidisco/Planet Minidisc, etc would have a field day. My 2 cents....

The quality of the HiMD units also forced me away from them. My first experience was the 600 model. Ick. Next came the NH900. I wasn't impressed with this one either. The half plastic unit reminded me of the R700 from a few years back. The solid metal bodies of the DR7/DR77/R70/R900/R910/N910/N920 always impressed me. The NH1 looks good, but I haven't taken the plunge. I do say that the cheap, plastic MD units sold today cannot compare with the build quality of "competitors". The iPod mini, for example, is VERY WELL built and you don't have to use the silly white earbuds. Why couldn't Sony make a HiMD with that build quality. I am also curious as to what happened to the battery life when compared to the MDLP and NetMD units. Currently I have no minidisc units, just an iPod nano (scratches like crazy - Apple should have kept the aluminum case design from the mini) and a Cowon X5L for voice recordings and long trips. The 35 hours of battery life is pretty impressive. The nano sounds nice for listening at the university (no white buds for me!) and the Cowon is great for quite listening. The nano's 4GB of (USB 2.0) flash memory is fantastic; no moving parts and fast transfers. This unit is practically indestructible as well. Now that I have watched two generations of HiMD come and go, with only Sony making units (where is Sharp?) I have pretty much given up on HiMD. BUT, it looks like I will go and buy a few "old" MDLP units for recording and "old school" listening. If only Sony had understood the idea of quality...

This doesn't suprise me as Sony has been screwing up with the HiMD for some time now. Maybe I am a throwback, but the lack of solid metal enclosures really turns me off of HiMD (except NH1)...glossy, fingerprint ridden plastic doesn't cut it. Also, where are the color screens? On the camera unit. Camera??? How worthless? Why do I say this? Because they didn't include mic recording (or built-in mic) capabilities. I SO wanted the DHP-10(?) for travel. Imagine being able to take pics and make voice comments regarding your travels...grrrrr It seems Sony was trying to hit too many bases at one time. The best thing I have seen from them recently was that gorgeous Pocket Vaio, but it is a dead, orphan product now. /cry I WANT, HOPE Sony will succed. I could care less if they beat Apple, but instead just make great products that WE want versus what THEY think we want/need. I wonder if the last bastion of MD will be Japan? Seems like the only possible end. Heck, Sharp already pulled out of the U.S., so all we have here is Sony. I wonder how long til Stringer changes that?

Speaking as someone who grew up with walkmans from the mid 80's and on, I WANT Sony to survive...to prosper, but it is apparent that Sony is no longer the company it once was. Due to ignorance, arrogance, or whatnot, it doesn't matter. What matters is that Sony stop playing catch up and truly innovate again. Someone here (perhaps another thread) earlier mentioned that Sony doesn't often do market research when it comes to designing products, but insteads hopes, expects(?) folks to like them simply because SONY designed them. I don't think that is a good idea anymore. They may have been able to pull this off 20 years ago, but not in this day and age. After looking at the new walkmans I am reminded that Sony really has no clue anymore. Those things are hideous. The "organic" looks just doesn't do it for me. It reminds me of a Kharma(?), only translucent. That clear plastic look reminds me of a cheap toy that comes out of a gumball machine. I don't know about you, but Apple had a hit the iPod mini's aluminum body. Heck SONY and Sharp both had the same thing (Aluminum body) going for them with their better quality MD units!!! Now Sony only uses plastics with their items (1/2 plastic and 1/2 aluminum on their flagship HIMD unit? GRRRR) The AL bodies gave the unit substance and the appearance of a "solid" product. While this may or may not have an affect on the reliability, I for one want that metal body. Appearances and feeling do sell... Sony also has a problem with their SS software which HOPEFULLY will be fixed with the SS replacement software. That problem is the TOTAL LACK of multi-language support in software and hardware ACROSS the product line. Customers should be able to use any language they want without relying on AppLocale and/or registry hacks. Sony, where is the unicode programming? Also, multilanguage support is MORE than just English and Japanese. Wake up Sony. I guess the number one complaint I have is the requirement for a special piece of software to load my player. How about it true drap and drop and play capabilities. The argument that this allows for piracy in nonsense, especially considering that we can still copy files to the player and give them to a friend. We might not be able to play them, but copying and pirating them would be simple. So what is the point of restricting us to a single program? This a point of contention with me, the average Joe who makes a mix tape or shares a few songs is not the problem. The problem is these folks who abuse sharing songs, and more importantly, these pirates who deal in VOLUME. Recently, I have tried an iPod 60GB color, a Sony Pocket Vaio 40GB, a Cowon X5L 30GB, and an iPod nano 4GB. Each has strenghts and weaknesses. 1. The Sony is the most well-built of the four, no question and really good hardware does impress me. To bad I MUST use the cradle for everything and I am stuck with SS and probbably a lack of future support from Sony. I have always been impressed (amazed) at the number of items Sony throws at the market. Didn't we just get new flash and HD players.... eg. the NW-5, yet we have new HD and flash players at the end of the year. And I thought Apple produced a lot of different players. 2. The Cowon construction seems strong, but the accessories seem pretty crappy, including the power supply, which broke IN HALF while I was pulling it out of the wall socket. The X5L has tremendous battery life and everything is truly drag, drop and play. Cowon support is slow, unfortunetly. I don't know about Sony's support, as I haven't ever had to use it in the last 20 years. 3. The 60GB iPod is the defacto standard. It has the most polished UI of any of these units. Its ease of use is incredible, but the battery life is terrible. The lack of extra features (I know, it is a player) really bothers me, especially when the features are in the software, but you need accessories to use them. Like the voice recorder. WHy do I have to spend an extra $40.00 for the iTrip (or others)? Why couldn't Apple have included a mic on board. And why isn't there a usuable EQ? 4. The nano has really impressed me. The cost for 4GB of flash, when compared to the other competitors is astounding (the 2GB isn't as impressive - price wise) The amount of memory it has really should embarrass Sony into action. I would have preferred an aluminum body, like the mini, but the solid construction of this nano is great. Sound is okay, but once again Apple confuses me. I can understand the lack of a microphone on the larger player, but this is THE unit (the minis possibly) that should have had a built in mic. While I am stuck with software to load this thing, at least iTunes is simple and intuitive to use, unlike SS. I will end up keeping the nano and either the Pocket Vaio or the X5L. The 60gigger iPod is going back on Monday. I still need a recording solution for my lectures which leaves me using the X5L or MD/HIMD. If I end up with a MD/HIMD unit for recording, buying one will be tough. I am really not impressed with the new HIMD units. The older MDLP units like the R900 and the DR7/DR77 really impress me, but uploading them is an issue. Have the HIMD units gotten past the bugs with uploading? I have read that folks have lost their recordings more than once. I hope that this has been fixed Also, when uploading the recordings, does the recording stay on the HIMD disc? Joe

So is it limited to Sony camera's only?

Guys, Is it just me or is there something inherently wrong with this situation. We can allow our music to be sold all over east asia, but we cannot get anyone to set up sales of east asian music here in the U.S., other than through sites like yesasia.com or cdjapan.com? You would think that all musicians (and music labels) would want to make more money and spread awareness of their bands to as many folks as possible. Very, very confusing.

Kurisu, domo arigato gozaimasu Ishii, any help setting this up would be grand!!!! Joe

Okay, I just realized that I can access the iTunes Japan store. I cannot buy anything (GRRRRR), but I can now listen to more bands so that my importing isn't as pick-and-miss. I am curious if it is possible to access the Sony Connect store in Japan? PLEASE tell me they HAVE a Connect Store in Japan or I may have to finally give up on Sony!!! ANY and ALL help would be appreicated. Joe

Sony lost its way in regards to designing MD units about the time that they stopped using metal bodies. I loved the simple look of the R70, R900, etc. Heck, the N1 and N10 were nice to look at too! Now we get....plastic, uh. Noting makes a EXPENSIVE device look cheap and tacky moreso than a plastic body. And half a metal body doesn't cut it either!!! Joe

Can you just install SS and then uninstall SS, but leave the OpenMG module in place? I wonder if that would work?? Joe

I agree with you Ishiyoshi, the speaker icon looks much better. Joe

Ishiyoshi, Thanks for the info. I guess it doesn't matter what the reasoning behind Sony's decision not to provide full language support for their devices. The end is the same. I listen to music from many cultures and want the song titles in the correct language. To me, this type of action is one of the things hurting Sony in its competiion against the Apple iPod. Apple has made a product that works on both PC and Mac (SS doesn't). Apple also has created a simple naming scheme so that anyone can instantly recognize what their product is. Sony still uses this archaic system that worked with their other home electronics, but it confuses the public now. NW-1, NW-2, NW-3, NW-5 (where is the NW-4? I understand why, but most non-Japanese won't). Don't get me started on their naming system for their MD units! If they had somehow just use the term Walkman - 20gb, Walkman - 40g, etc. Don't get me wrong, the pocket vaio is a beautiful, and well-built machine, but some of it limitations are going to force me to return it tomorrw morning. If only Sony would truly listen to their customers...that reminds me, WHY cannot Sony provide consistancy in their machines. Music can be loaded onto a Sony PSP via SS or by DRAG and DROP. Why won't Sony do the same thing with all their machines? It Sony so large that one section of the company truly doesn't know what another section is doing? EDIT: It seems I may be keeping the Pocket Vaio after all. I compared it to the iPod in regards to build quality (see my posts at minidisc.org regarding plastic versus metal MD bodies ) and the iPod just doesn't come close, well the iPod mini does, but I want a color screen and more storage potential. It seems I am now on the search for extra battereis for the Pocket Vaio, in addition to trying to find the NICE SONY leather case that only seems to be sold in Japan. If ANYONE can help me with these issues, PLEASE let me know. Thanks. Joe

That is too bad because it really is a nice device (minus the text limitations and needing the cradle to recharge). Thanks for the info. Ishiyoshi, do you have any insight as to WHY Sony chooses not to support multiple languages? If a company as small as Apple Computer can, why cannot a large electronics company do the same? I cannot believe that the programmers/engineers at Sony are that inept. Is it a philisopical choice or something? Thanks. Joe

I have a Pocket Vaio as well. Had it about a week. My question to you is what about the iPod makes it a lesser device compared to the Pocket Vaio? I ask because I am concerned about something regarding the Pocket Vaio. 1. It cannot display anything but English and Japanese, no Hangul. I have tried everything mentioned on this board and minidisc.org. iTunes and the iPod can easily display so many languages. The Korean Cowon X5/X5L can also display mulitple languages (Asian). Am I doing something wrong or is the Pocket Vaio truly incapable of displaying Hangul? Thiis is a deal breaker for me. Thanks. Joe

I wouldn't mind it so much if it was a unicode program that could handle multiple languages. iTunes can handle the east asian languages, why cannot Sony (in Japan, mind you) not produce a SS version that can natively have multi-language support? Even their nice mp3 players...including the Pocket Vaio cannot handle anything other than English and Japanese (and the Chinese characters that match the Japanese Kanji). No Hangul support. I am returning my Pocket Vaio for this very reason. WONDERFUL machine, nice build quality, but no true east language support ended my ownership. Bah Sony.

I also agree that the heavy DRM doesn't help, but MD was crippled (sales wise) many years ago here in the States and never really recovered. I would love to have seen a Hi-MD machine that plays mp3 AND supports drag and drop. So many folks say it is to keep the pirating down....BS....it isn't any more difficult to drop the files to a MD as files and just give them to someone else. I think the MD is still suffering from the laws that govern audio recording devices versus computer devices...which is how the iPod, etc are labeled.

Kurisu, Where did you find the info about the D10 being all metal construction? I was under the impression it was all plastic. Joe

So the Japanese cradle HAS the usb connector, but the rest of the world doesn't get it? Incredible. I really don't understand why Sony doesn't just make one version - a world tourist version - and sell it everywhere. Less variation, no changes to be made. Support all languages and voltages..and be done with it. Thanks.

I have tried audiograbber before, but my system is rather old and editing .wav files can take a bit of time compared to just cutting sections out on the minidisc while I am listening to it. Thanks for the idea though. Joe

Dude, I drive 55 miles to school everyday. If my batt. dies, I am SOL as I cannot just go home. Also, I spend about 9 hours a day at school so not only am I going to record, but I would also want to listen to tunes as well. If the NH1 battery can handle 4-6 hours of recording daily and be able to handle 4-5 hours of playback on one charge all is good. A second battery is an option, but boy, are those things expensive!

So it uses the cradle to charge (like the NW-HD1), but I have to remove it from the cradle to actually transfer data? Do does the thing charge off the usb (adapter) connector while hooked up to the pc. All the other HiMD units run off of USB power, I sure hope this one does. Otherwise it falls into the same trap that the S1 did; draining the battery just to transfer files!!! Please set me straight on this situation as I was considering buying the NH1. OH, one more thing...If I have the NH1 in the dock (and charging) can I record in realitime using the analog or optical inputs? This is important as I would be using the device to record internet radio. I guess the NH1 isn't the best choice for recording lectures, etc unless you have a spare battery on hand. Joe

Silly question, But like an ealier NH700 battery question, I cannot specific info on how the data is transferred to the NH1. It is like the NH900, which has the USB port on the unit? I saw serveral pics and don't recall there being a USB port on the main unit. OR, is the usb port on the cradle, like the NW-HD1, and the main unit has a proprietary connector on the main unit, only allowing data/music transfer when the main unit is in the cradle? Thanks for the help.

Yes, that metal case IS that important to me. Not only that, but plastic feels cheap and this is important when spending $200.00 on a little device. I don't want my expensive MD unit to feel like it came out of a cereal box. Also, how much more does a metal body add to the total cost of the device? More importantly, when folks look at a MD unit made of plastic (esp. the downloaders and players) and compare them to iPod mini (aluminum body), both of which cost around $200.00, customers are going to FEEL like the solid little mini (in addtion to the popular name) is a better deal. Is it really a better deal? Who knows, but we all can see which devices sell the most. Also, the AA doesn't add much to the shape and weight of the MD unit. Also, how does having a AA hump, take away feature sets from the device?