SonicStage 3.3 Arrives -- a Reformed ATRAC is Born

[Ishiyoshi]

hey guys, i'm really excited about this new upgrade.  However, i upgraded from SS 3.2 and would like to connect my Vaio Pocket to it but it gives me the error message, "The connected ATRAC Audio Device cannot be used with the currently installed SonicStage.  To use with the currently installed SonicStage, you must delete all tracks in the ATRAC Audio Device or initialize the hard disk of the ATRAC Audio Device." Is there any way I can connect my Vaio Pocket and transfer songs in the new SS 3.3 without deleting all the songs off of it (cause that would be such a pain).  Or how do you initialize the hard disk with it? I'm really confused and oblivious...i'm sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong thread.  Someone pleassee help. thank you!

←

I'm sorry to hear that you had to initialize the VAIO Pocket. If you do initialize, you will lose tunes residing in the VAIO Pocket. Please refer to this post for initialization instruction. If you have any other queries pertaining to this issue, please create a new thread within "HDD Equipment" section and we will assist you accordingly.

[Damage]

Add insult to injury, the poor old ATRAC CDs players are left in the dust. Ah well, at least my NH1 gets a new shot in the arm thanks to the 352kbps setting...

Getting closer and closer to what Connect Player may look like in the future, and it's looking pretty good.

[sdfzz_]

I'm using e400, and i didn;t have to initialize it to use 3.3.

I can use new atrac plus 352..

the rating system is added...i guess that's for the new players

[Guest Stuge]

I'm using e400, and i didn;t have to initialize it to use 3.3.

I can use new atrac plus 352..

the rating system is added...i guess that's for the new players

←

No, i don`t think so(as i wasn`t asked to initilize my nw-e505).Just download new ss ver 3.3 try it ur self .Yes ur right new rating system(like in I-TUNES)is only fro new devices only.so its of no use for u.But personally i don`t have any crazy about rating ur own music , as u know ur self that which music u like or not

Edited November 1, 2005 by Stuge

[chenfurfur]

I'm sorry to hear that you had to initialize the VAIO Pocket. If you do initialize, you will lose tunes residing in the VAIO Pocket. Please refer to this post for initialization instruction. If you have any other queries pertaining to this issue, please create a new thread within "HDD Equipment" section and we will assist you accordingly.

←

So in other words i'll HAVE to reinitialize...there's no other alternative? Can you provide me with a link to the HDD Equipment section, for some reason I can't locate it. Thank you so much!

[wutang01]

Will this version work with like ... MZ-N1?

[Ishiyoshi]

So in other words i'll HAVE to reinitialize...there's no other alternative? Can you provide me with a link to the HDD Equipment section, for some reason I can't locate it.  Thank you so much!

←

I didn't have to initialize the VAIO Pocket; but then my upgrade trail was from SonicStage 3.2 Japanese version. You may want to try installing SonicStage 3.3 JE and then reinstall the English version over.

---> click here for HDD Equipment section.

[Ishiyoshi]

Will this version work with like ... MZ-N1?

←

Yes, SonicStage 3.3 will work with NetMD devices such as the MZ-N1. But you will not be able to utilize any of the new improvements with the MZ-N1.

[Bananatree]

This is kind of exciting, however I want a mac version!

I guess ALAC is what's for dinner over here.

I think what I really want is a small Gig or two flash player.

[pata2001]

I tested SS3.3 using my E99. I ripped 1 track to lossless+64kbps, and to stand-alone 256kbps. Then I transfer both tracks to my E99, forcing 256kbps. SS transcode the lossless+64kbps to 256kbps. Question is, does SS use the lossless version (meaning minimal loss of quality, just like you rip to 256kbps directly) or simply transcode the 64kbps version? Well, it's like fake SP all over again.

STUPID SONY! GRRRR! As I feared, for transcoding, SS does NOT use the lossless file, but uses the pre-compressed version. Meaning, if you rip your CDs to lossless+64kbps, whenever you want to transfer your music to another device to any other bitrate, SS will transcode using the 64kbps version, NOT the lossless version, resulting in crappy quality. What's the point of having lossless then? Why can't Sony set SS to transcode from the lossless version? STUPID! I can't believe I was so happy about this. So lossless is pretty much useless in application. Might as well rip your tracks to 256kbps only.

[dutchtrance]

I tested SS3.3 using my E99. I ripped 1 track to lossless+64kbps, and to stand-alone 256kbps. Then I transfer both tracks to my E99, forcing 256kbps. SS transcode the lossless+64kbps to 256kbps. Question is, does SS use the lossless version (meaning minimal loss of quality, just like you rip to 256kbps directly) or simply transcode the 64kbps version? Well, it's like fake SP all over again.

STUPID SONY! GRRRR! As I feared, for transcoding, SS does NOT use the lossless file, but uses the pre-compressed version. Meaning, if you rip your CDs to lossless+64kbps, whenever you want to transfer your music to another device to any other bitrate, SS will transcode using the 64kbps version, NOT the lossless version, resulting in crappy quality. What's the point of having lossless then? Why can't Sony set SS to transcode from the lossless version? STUPID! I can't believe I was so happy about this. So lossless is pretty much useless in application. Might as well rip your tracks to 256kbps only.

←

i`m still using an e-10 and 780 deck combo as i love the e10 and hi-md does not record in atrac3 sp mode any more.

i decided to rip everything using 132 atrac 3 as this is understood by my fortcoming flash player purchase and the e10 and the 780, but would have prefered some thing of higher quality, but i also wanted to fit 2 cds on a single MD.

i cannot afford to save everything in wav format and then transcode down from the `perfect` copy, just to much stuff! i do not want to record into atrac 3 plus 256 and then transcode down to 132 atrac when i want o use the MD.

this was going to be a perfect solution; keep the lossless compressed version in sonic stage and then when needed on MD transcode down to 132, or 192~256 atrac3+ when needed for the flash player. but its completly useless if it uses the 256 `lossless` to transcode between bit rates.

really? what is the point?

now we can listen to a `lossless` version on the computer, but have to listen to ashoddy version on the flashplayer/MD?

why not just let it use the loss less version to transcode?

it perfectly illustrates the point of `sony = 1 step forwards, 2 steps back`.

good, but uselless.

with i-tunes i know that the mp3 files i create can be used by any one else and can be used in other players, using their lossless algorithm i know i can encode my files inot hat and be safe in the knowledge that in future i can move the files off or transcode to a lower bitrate to fit mor eon my player, should i so wish.

if sony continue to not enable to do this just for sillyness sake i WILL leave atrac and my MD`s and move my music collection across to apple and thus purchase an ipod.

Edited November 1, 2005 by dutchtrance

[sxc_]

Well dynamic playlisting is what I've been waiting for ages for. finally we have it.

But Sony's implementation as usual is lacking....you can only have a limited number of search characteristics in each playlist, and you can't do playlists such as "not played in the last month".

Unfortunately it's a very rudimentary implementation of something that Apple and Microsoft have had right for years already.

[bleh2k5]

Is connect definitely happening then?

I wonder why Sony would go back to Connect when they could just sort sonic stage out.

[indeego]

The new Walkman should be available on november, 7th (Information from Sony.uk). We'll see if CP will be included - just wait 6 days ;-)

[ameachasag]

Hi!

I´ve just updated sonicstage to the new version and try it out in my Vaio pocket. I have not experienced any trouble at all. Just wanted to write these lines because i have read that some of you are having problems with the vaio pocket and the new version. I have updated from the 3.2 version, and in case it is useful I´m using spanish as languaje.

Hopes it helps,

Ameli

Edited November 1, 2005 by ameachasag

[Epidot]

I just updated to SS 3.3 after being quite annoyed with previous versions due to the fact that I couldn't copy files back to my computer from my device (as with many others I have a laptop with limited space so I've had to delete stuff from my libaray).

I tried it first with the new version, same as ever it didn't work, then I tried to import songs to my library, you can now select your device as a disk (I don't think you could do that before). So I checked the box to import files form my device, I got asked if I wanted to copy the files as they were on a portable harddrive, I clicked no.

It then went on and imported all my files, it took quite a while as there is a few thousand songs there, so my library now has all my files again (not the whole files but the info about them). I can now create and edit playlists on my computer and send them over to my device. But the best bit is still to come ... I can now transfer back any music file from my deivce back to my computer, doesn't matter if they are atrac or mp3s!

Is this the way Sony meant it to be or will they send out a new version closing this user freedom? I sure hope they will keep it as is!

Thank you very much Sony!!!

[Epidot]

Ok, Update to my previous post ...

It seems that the files I transfered from my device to my computer got lost somewhere. They are now gone from both my computer and device so I might have shouted too early

[simon.giesen]

Hi folks,

Yesterday I installed Sonic Stage 3.3 and I've tested several features. Here is what I found out:

a) It is not possible to rip CDs with ATRAC3Plus 352Kbit/s

Unfortunately, my HD-5 is supporting this bitrate and NOT 3xx .. so I have to rip my CDs in ATRAC Lossless and then afterwards I downconvert them to 352Kbit/s.

c) Downconverting and ripping in ATRAC Lossless takes actually a lot of time :-(

d) I do not rip all my CDs in ATRAC Lossless, only my fav ones but I wish I could use ATRAC Lossless directly, any hint of a new firmware, folks???

e) ATRAC2Plus 352Kbit/s sounds great. Fully transparent, with a lot of "air" especially female voices sound "very colorful". I would love to test ATRAC Lossless and see the difference!

f) Do you know what they mean in "fast ripping" or ripping in "high quality"? I could not determine any difference!

g) The new rating system is sometimes not working and accepting my editing; often I had to go by "properties, rating", strange!?

h) Is the new Connect Player software NOT working with my HD-5?! Where is it? Where can we download it? The new walmans are being shipped here in Germany in a couple of days...

[lindijones]

OMG. I didn't check the board for a couple of days, now Atrac lossless! Good job Sony. This is one of my wish list.

However, let's say if we pick Lossless 128kbps. If then I want to transfer to a device using 96kps, will SS transcode the lossless version, or the 128kbps prepared version? Hopefully it's from the lossless, but we never know (based on our experience of fake SP). Hopefully somebody can verify (ie. by ripping to lossless 64kbps, and transferring to 256kbps).

←

Well, thats a good questions!!!

Let´s try all this!

What happen if you have Lossless 128 kbit/s and checked out with 9& KBit/s.

Do i have two optimnized files??

cu

tom

[lindijones]

I tested SS3.3 using my E99. I ripped 1 track to lossless+64kbps, and to stand-alone 256kbps. Then I transfer both tracks to my E99, forcing 256kbps. SS transcode the lossless+64kbps to 256kbps. Question is, does SS use the lossless version (meaning minimal loss of quality, just like you rip to 256kbps directly) or simply transcode the 64kbps version? Well, it's like fake SP all over again.

STUPID SONY! GRRRR! As I feared, for transcoding, SS does NOT use the lossless file, but uses the pre-compressed version. Meaning, if you rip your CDs to lossless+64kbps, whenever you want to transfer your music to another device to any other bitrate, SS will transcode using the 64kbps version, NOT the lossless version, resulting in crappy quality. What's the point of having lossless then? Why can't Sony set SS to transcode from the lossless version? STUPID! I can't believe I was so happy about this. So lossless is pretty much useless in application. Might as well rip your tracks to 256kbps only.

←

Did you try to burn a cd of this 64 kbit/s lossless files??

What happens?

Is the soundquality also crappy?

What happens if you just play the file in SonicStage? Also Crappy?

Why to use lossless if not? :-)

Oh Yeah!!

Maybe they just took the normal transcoding way. Like you have all in 256 Kbit/s and then transfer it to hd 5 with 64 kbit/s.

Anyway.... it´s stupid.

Well maybe there must be a version 3.4 in future?? Hope so.

Tom

[lindijones]

Hi folks,

Yesterday I installed Sonic Stage 3.3 and I've tested several features. Here is what I found out:

a) It is not possible to rip CDs with ATRAC3Plus 352Kbit/s

Unfortunately, my HD-5 is supporting this bitrate and NOT 3xx .. so I have to rip my CDs in ATRAC Lossless and then afterwards I downconvert them to 352Kbit/s.

c) Downconverting and ripping in ATRAC Lossless takes actually a lot of time :-(

d) I do not rip all my CDs in ATRAC Lossless, only my fav ones but I wish I could use ATRAC Lossless directly, any hint of a new firmware, folks???

e) ATRAC2Plus 352Kbit/s sounds great. Fully transparent, with a lot of "air" especially female voices sound "very colorful". I would love to test ATRAC Lossless and see the difference!

f) Do you know what they mean in "fast ripping" or ripping in "high quality"? I could not determine any difference!

g) The new rating system is sometimes not working and accepting my editing; often I had to go by "properties, rating", strange!?

h) Is the new Connect Player software NOT working with my HD-5?! Where is it? Where can we download it? The new walmans are being shipped here in Germany in a couple of days...

←

Are you sure to hear 352 kbit/s sound? I think the converted file comes from the 256 kbit/s version?? Not from lossless??

hihi

So it should worse than 256 kbit/s files....Could you hear that?? :-)

Tom

[Ishiyoshi]

Note: to all who have posted with installation or other technical issue concerning SonicStage 3.3 - your post has been moved to "Software" section of the forum. Please do not post software help request in the news thread.

[pata2001]

a) It is not possible to rip CDs with ATRAC3Plus 352Kbit/s

Unfortunately, my HD-5 is supporting this bitrate and NOT 3xx .. so I have to rip my CDs in ATRAC Lossless and then afterwards I downconvert them to 352Kbit/s.

c) Downconverting and ripping in ATRAC Lossless takes actually a lot of time :-(

d) I do not rip all my CDs in ATRAC Lossless, only my fav ones but I wish I could use ATRAC Lossless directly, any hint of a new firmware, folks???

e) ATRAC2Plus 352Kbit/s sounds great. Fully transparent, with a lot of "air" especially female voices sound "very colorful". I would love to test ATRAC Lossless and see the difference!

f) Do you know what they mean in "fast ripping" or ripping in "high quality"? I could not determine any difference!

g) The new rating system is sometimes not working and accepting my editing; often I had to go by "properties, rating", strange!?

h) Is the new Connect Player software NOT working with my HD-5?! Where is it? Where can we download it? The new walmans are being shipped here in Germany in a couple of days...

←

It takes time because sonicstage has to transcode the compressed version to the new bitrate. Which losless bitrate did you pick? Lossless 256kbps? If that's the case, what you hear is just a transcoded 256kbps Atrac3+ file. The good thing is, 256kbps is good enough, and not many people can tell the difference when transcoded. BAD thing is, this is NOT ideal. Sony should program sonicstage to transcode from THE lossless version, not the compressed version. For now, Atrac lossless is useless.

[plickfu]

This thing is freakin' weird! So, I did some playing around with various bitrates and transfer settings. My subjective findings follow.

First I imported a CD at 320kbps. When I transfered to my Vaio Pocket, it upconverted to 352kbps. This sounds better than 256, IMO. A bit more nuanced, richer.

Then I did Atrac Lossless 256, again upconverted to 352 kbps. I'm not too hot on this one. We know for the time being that the lossless codecs are sort of useless (until that VP firmware update, right, Sony?). I like the promise of a lossless codec; let's hope Sony allow us the opportunity to use it to its potential.

Then I imported in PCM, downconverted to 352kbps. This is like a long way of importing the CD initially at 352kbps. This sounds awesome! This is where Sony have been hiding all of the treble and midrange from song I imported at 256kbps!

I am only going to do this for a few CDs because, to be honest, this took about 1.5 hours for 4 CDs. I don't want to waste time on converting, because as I finish me collection, my VP will support lossles (I hope!). We'll see.

Summarily, I really like having an extra 100kbps, but this whole lossless thing is a mess. I can't wait until I can actually use it!

Steve

[lindijones]

This thing is freakin' weird!  So, I did some playing around with various bitrates and transfer settings.  My subjective findings follow.

    First I imported a CD at 320kbps.  When I transfered to my Vaio Pocket, it upconverted to 352kbps.  This sounds better than 256, IMO.  A bit more nuanced, richer. 

    Then I did Atrac Lossless 256, again upconverted to 352 kbps.  I'm not too hot on this one.  We know for the time being that the lossless codecs are sort of useless (until that VP firmware update, right, Sony?).  I like the promise of a lossless codec; let's hope Sony allow us the opportunity to use it to its potential.

    Then I imported in PCM, downconverted to 352kbps.  This is like a long way of importing the CD initially at 352kbps.  This sounds awesome!  This is where Sony have been hiding all of the treble and midrange from song I imported at 256kbps! 

    I am only going to do this for a few CDs because, to be honest, this took about 1.5 hours for 4 CDs.  I don't want to waste time on converting, because as I finish me collection, my VP will support lossles (I hope!).  We'll see. 

    Summarily, I really like having an extra 100kbps, but this whole lossless thing is a mess.  I can't wait until I can actually use it!

Steve

←

Why do you upconvert something from 256 kbit/s??

Can somebody tell us why the 352 kbit version converted from wav sounds so bad?

What for is this bitrate?

Tom

[Ishiyoshi]

Update: SonicStage 3.3 Asia-Pacific & US version is now available for download - click here -

[bongocanuck]

is it possible to create playlists now on my vaio pocket? for example multiple playlists that use multiple songs based on the pocket and not the PC.

AND

Is it possible to drag and drop a FOLDER (with mp3s in it) using vaio music transfer and keep the name of the folder accessible in vaio pocket?

Edited November 4, 2005 by bongocanuck

[Dinko]

Typical Sony nonsense:

NW-E407.

Cannot transfer music to the ATRAC device.

Initialize the ATRAC device or delete all music files from it before transferring.

Not the exact wording, but close enough.

Now I'm afraid of hooking up an HD1 to my PC in case SS3.3 wants me to initialize that too.

crappy.like.no.other

[Guest Stuge]

Typical Sony nonsense:

NW-E407.

Cannot transfer music to the ATRAC device.

Initialize the ATRAC device or delete all music files from it before transferring.

Not the exact wording, but close enough.

Now I'm afraid of hooking up an HD1 to my PC in case SS3.3 wants me to initialize that too.

crappy.like.no.other

←

But for nw-hd3,5 & nw-e505 doesn`t ask to Initialize them.

[Claudio Hideki]

I´ve just downloaded and what a surprise! Now it shows files from my MD much faster than the older version...in the older version, there was a "lag" to show the files recorded on my MD Player. About 30 Seconds I guess...

Edited November 6, 2005 by Claudio Hideki

[Guest Stuge]

I was unable to transfer my songs that were imported on sonic stage ver 3.0.Whenever i tried to tranfer my songs(either to nw-hd3,hd5 or nw-e505) through ss 3.3 it would asked me again & again would like to download rights for these files (very irritating).So i was forced to delete all the songs & then i imported these songs again(from my cds).

Has anyone face such a problem...

[pato128]

I had the same problem and I had to re import all my cds, but my player is a vaio pocket.

I found something else,

I imported my cds using the lossless option with 256 and then I transferred the songs using the atrac format 352kbps.

The sound is ok, but the songs in the vaio skips if I start browsing other songs or options in the player. This does not happen with any of the mp3s I have in the vaio pocket.

Am I suppossed to use only atrac 256 to avaid the problem?

Is there a lot of difference on sound between 256 and 352? what about 320?

Does this bitrateeven work with the vaio pocket? what about 320?

[Jadeclaw]

Looks like that not everything is clear about the new Bitrates/Codec-variants offered by SS3.3.

Since possibly not everyone has read the sister thread over at minidisc.org, some notes from that:

Atrac Lossless: It contains actually two parts, one lossy file, one lossless.

Comparisons/calculations made by Rombuster revealed it, a WMA lossless + a WMA@64k file together roughly equal an AtracLossless file tagged with 64k in size, having the same cd-track as source.

See: here, Post #106.

Plus, when converting/transferring, only the lossy part is used.

So using AtracLossless as a source for 352k is rather pointless.

See Post #34, same thread.

Best quality from 352k: Import the CD as WAV( PCM ), then go into the album, mark all tracks, do a rightclick on one of the tracks, select Convert Format, select Atrac3Plus and 352k from that dropdown.

Make sure, that the 'Add Copyprotection after Convert'-Checkbox is unchecked.

Click on Convert.

When that is done, remove the WAV-file in the properties-dialogue of each track to recover the disc space.

I know, it is a bit tedious, but is currently the only way to make full use of the 352k without filling the HDD with PCM-files(10MByte/min).

I hope, we'll see a SS3.4, where 352k is offered on CD-Import and the lossless part is used for conversion, when AtracLossless is used as a source.

I hope, that clears it up a bit.

Edited November 7, 2005 by Jadeclaw

[Jadeclaw]

@pato: 352k is better, but you will hear the difference only, when using good headphones or when connecting the player to a decent home system.

Converting from AtracLossless to 352k is pointless, see my previous post.

You have to go via PCM.

The skipping might indicate, that the processor inside the VAIO-player doesn't have enough processing power to do the user interface and decoding 352k at the same time.

I guess, staying at 256k might be the best option here.

[pato128]

Jadeclaw:

Thank you for the info. I changed all the atrac files in my vaio to be 256 and everything works fine now.

[bongocanuck]

"Is it possible to create playlists now on my vaio pocket? for example multiple playlists that use multiple songs based on the pocket and NOT the PC.

AND

Is it possible to drag and drop a FOLDER (with mp3s in it) using vaio music transfer and keep the name of the folder accessible in vaio pocket?"

anyone??

[Roba1]

In my opinion Sonicstage 3.3 is rubbish. What use is any software that when transferring songs to my HD5 it gets to 99% complete and hangs there....forever.

You can't even exit out of SS, I HAVE to pull the plug on my PC to shut it down. What a pile of ...

I'm going to re-install 3.2 unless anyone has any bright ideas, by the way I've installed it twice now with the same poxy results. And I have initialized my HD, twice.

R

Edited November 7, 2005 by Roba

[kaledi]

In my opinion Sonicstage 3.3 is rubbish. What use is any software that when transferring songs to my HD5 it gets to 99% complete and hangs there....forever.

You can't even exit out of SS, I HAVE to pull the plug on my PC to shut it down.  What a pile of ...

I'm going to re-install 3.2 unless anyone has any bright ideas, by the way I've installed it twice now with the same poxy results. And I have initialized my HD, twice.

R

←

Try reinstalling SS3.3 withour uninstalling the original installation. To do this just double click on the download installation file and when prompted confirm that you want to reinstall.

I had some problems with transfers to Hi-MD and the above appeared to solve things. What was interesting was that on the second installation (reinstall) DirectX 9.0c was downloaded (even though it was already installed).

[ruxma]

I don't understand what this is all about. in my mind, lossless means nothing is lost, correct? and lossless formats take ALL the information and digitally compress it like a "special" zip file for audio. then how can there me a bit rate associated to a lossless file? smaller bitrates mean smaller files right, because less information is kept. how can this be considered lossless? i mean, if it is the case, why don't i just go encode all my music at the lowest bit rate of lossless and have everything i own on a 40 gig hardrive in perfectly archived lossless quality.

on the other hand, maybe i missed somthing over this post that explains this whole thing and now look like a total retard.... either way, i still wanna know.

←

Me to have wondered of that problem. I think you have the compressed lossy file incoporated in the lossless file as some kind if attachment. That is the only possibility, what I can find.

The lossless file in Sonicstage is smaller than original file, but still about half a CD. But I think that is no problem today. Most of us have bigger harddisks than we will ever use nowadays.

Georg

[Roba1]

Try reinstalling SS3.3 withour uninstalling the original installation.  To do this just double click on the download installation file and when prompted confirm that you want to reinstall.

I had some problems with transfers to Hi-MD and the above appeared to solve things.  What was interesting was that on the second installation (reinstall) DirectX 9.0c was downloaded (even though it was already installed).

←

Thanks, had done that already but to no avail. I've just totally uninstalled and re-installed and it seems to be working for now, so lets see how it goes. thanks

R