Advantages Of The Hi-md New Generation

[petri63]

Hi Everyone,

I wanted an Hi-MD mainly to use as a high-quality audio recording device (for wildlife and other stuff), but also for music listening, so I bought an MZ-NH900 yesterday. I tried it out and it works very well. However, I would just like confirm with the experts the advantages of the new model, the MZ-RH10, to make sure I am not missing out on an important feature. If it is the case, then I might exchange my NH900 for the RH10.

From what I read, the advantages of the RH10 are the following:

- Bigger and easier-to-read display

- MP3 native support

Is there something else important to consider?

Thanks in advance,

Frank

[The Low Volta]

From what I read, the advantages of the RH10 are the following:

- Bigger and easier-to-read display

- MP3 native support

Is there something else important to consider?

←

I use an NH900 but have also looked into the RH10 when it first appeared. Indeed, the two points you mention are the biggest differences...but there are a few things to consider when making a choice:

- if you have a lot of MP3's and you want to keep 'em as MP3's get a RH10, as it can play MP3 (as they are, without conversion)

but... the sound of MP3 isn't as good as Atrac (on the RH10)

- if you have to record at night (or otherwise in the dark) the OLED of the RH10 is very nice, but it can be hard to read in bright sunlight

but... the NH900 has a lit LCD-remote so you can use it in the dark as well AND unless you get a Japanese version (imported) of the RH10, you won't get aN LCD-remote (or a charging cradle, which if of laser importance)

- if you use older MD-material, the 1st gen (NH900) are fully backwards compatible (can record in real SP) while the 2nd gen (RH10) can only use the fake-SP from SS

after serious consideration, I decided the NH900 was a very good model, the only thing really nice about the RH10 for me was the OLED display, but I really didn't think it was worth the money (especially as I could only get the accessory-crippled European version, or would have to pay a lot for an import)

[petri63]

- if you have a lot of MP3's and you want to keep 'em as MP3's get a RH10, as it can play MP3 (as they are, without conversion)

but... the sound of MP3 isn't as good as Atrac (on the RH10)

- if you have to record at night (or otherwise in the dark) the OLED of the RH10 is very nice, but it can be hard to read in bright sunlight

Thanks for the reply.

I don’t have a lot of MP3s, but I would have preferred to avoid the MP3-ATRAC conversion when tranferring music to the device, as MP3 is pretty popular.

In any case, I think I am going to keep the NH900 because it is good enough for my main purpose, which is linear PCM recording. For music listening, I might go with an iRiver, which I tried and found very good.

Again, thanks for the help,

Frank

[petri63]

Well, after playing with my NH900 today, I changed my mind. I find the display on this unit very difficult to read, even in daylight. Yes, there is a backlit LCD on the remote, but unfortunately, it does not seem possible to control the microphone recording function with it. So I would rather have a legible display on the unit.

I will probably go with the RH10.

Frank

[The Low Volta]

Well, after playing with my NH900 today, I changed my mind. I find the display on this unit very difficult to read, even in daylight. Yes, there is a backlit LCD on the remote, but unfortunately, it does not seem possible to control the microphone recording function with it. So I would rather have a legible display on the unit.

←

the way I and a lot of other NH900 users go about it (especially for stealth recording) is to set the recording-settings (manual volume,...) when in rec-pause in a place where you can see the display on the recorder (I find it ok most of the time, make sure you've set the contrast high enough in the menu!). Then just leave it in Rec-Pause (with hold on on the recorder and remote) and just unpause when you need to start recording. Besides, after bit of taping, the button sequence to get the manual settings are well known to your fingers and you can do this in the dark

When in stealth situations, the LCD (lit) remote really comes in handy, as you dont have to take out the entire recorder to check levels and time left etc... and as you can put the light on permanently, you don't even have to fiddle with buttons just to see something...

So, just have a good look, I know the OLED looks great, but it has been mentioned that it's very hard to see in bright light, and with the RH10 you don't have a second LCD (on the remote) when you can't see the display.

I compared the models thoroughly, and I will stick with the NH900...if only it had an OLED on the recorder

greetings, Volta

[petri63]

the way I and a lot of other NH900 users go about it (especially for stealth recording) is to set the recording-settings (manual volume,...) when in rec-pause in a place where you can see the display on the recorder (I find it ok most of the time, make sure you've set the contrast high enough in the menu!). Then just leave it in Rec-Pause (with hold on on the recorder and remote) and just unpause when you need to start recording. Besides, after  bit of taping, the button sequence to get the manual settings are well known to your fingers and you can do this in the dark 

When in stealth situations, the LCD (lit) remote really comes in handy, as you dont have to take out the entire recorder to check levels and time left etc... and as you can put the light on permanently, you don't even have to fiddle with buttons just to see something...

So, just have a good look, I know the OLED looks great, but it has been mentioned that it's very hard to see in bright light, and with the RH10 you don't have a second LCD (on the remote) when you can't see the display.

I compared the models thoroughly, and I will stick with the NH900...if only it had an OLED on the recorder 

←

Thanks.

Looking at pictures of the RH10 at sony.com and reading the PDF manual, I was under the impression that the display light on the unit could be turned off and that the display would then look like a standard one. Isn’t it the case?

Regards,

Frank

[The Low Volta]

Looking at pictures of the RH10 at sony.com and reading the PDF manual, I was under the impression that the display light on the unit could be turned off and that the display would then look like a standard one. Isn’t it the case?

←

hm, with OLED the text is glowing green/blue on a black background, with LCD the text is black/grey on a green/blue background...so nope, an OLED without the light is just NO-LED ( aw cheesy pun, sorry) and not a normal LCD

just check out Ishiiyoshi's RH10 pictorial then you see that it really is nowhere near a normal LCD... it is much more beautifull ...but according to some, not very visible in direct/bright sunlight...actually someone who owns and uses an RH10 like Ishiiyoshi or MrSoul would be much better placed to answer this (you could always PM them with a short direct question)

if you have fallen in love with the OLED (I know I almost did ) or just like the specs or the look of the RH10 better, you could always import one from japan (see this thread) or buy another LCD-remote that works with the RH10 (just search these forums a bit, there have been a lot of discussions on this subject recently...AND check availability and price first of the remote you like, as they can be expensive little buggers!!)

greetings, Volta

Edited May 30, 2005 by The Low Volta

[b_k_d]

The Display on the RH10 is fine.

It 'emits light' - its not a reflective kind of display - that said I've never had any trouble

seeing it .. outdoors or in. It seems to have a 'bright' level - when you're fiddling with it

and then a 'dim' level - after a few seconds of no use, and then it goes dark after a long

time sitting there.

The remote control is "Very Handy". Wasn't sure about this feature, but the first time using the thing as a walkman while mowing the lawn, and I was very glad I had the remote.

[veezhun]

get the rh10. i got this from the us. the main differences u already know. let me give u my view.

the display is fine in the bright sunlight. it is peak summer here in india and the temperature is 40 degrees celcius. no problems reading it in this bright sunlight.

the lack of a lineout doesnt bother me.. native mp3 playback seems fine here but i havent done any serious listening tests using a nice headphone.. i have the philips sbc hp890 btw..

people who complain about lack of SP recording i.e Atrac3 are plain short sighted. If i wanted to record LIVE, i would never use MDLP as i cannot upload these recordings from my Hi MD.

But if i just wanted to create discs to play with my earlier MDLP, i can always use SS or simple burner to do so. the only issue being SP mode is not the real SP Mode.

i am a classical music player and have a decent ear. about SP and HI SP:all those who claim to hear the difference in the SAME unit between SP and HI SP must be super humans!!!

so please go ahead and buy the OLED rh10. i think it is a good investment.. honestly, i am using it as a pure recorder, the reason why MD was made. playback is what i call an optional extra

cheers

[The Low Volta]

But if i just wanted to create discs to play with my earlier MDLP, i can always use SS or simple burner to do so. the only issue being SP mode is not the real SP Mode.

i am a classical music player and have a decent ear. about SP and HI SP:all those who claim to hear the difference in the SAME unit between SP and HI SP must be super humans!!!

←

the real problem is that older machines (like car-MD-players, HiFi-modules etc...) aren't Hi-MD and can't play Hi-SP. So they need SP as the only other decent option. Now real SP is 292bps fake Sp or revamped LP2 is 132bps...you would hear the difference between those two wouldn't you (especially with classically trained ears)? So the equation SP><Hi-SP is totally besides the question, its SP(292)><LP2(132)...

[veezhun]

the real problem is that older machines (like car-MD-players, HiFi-modules etc...) aren't Hi-MD and can't play Hi-SP. So they need SP as the only other decent option. Now real SP is 292bps fake Sp or revamped LP2 is 132bps...you would hear the difference between those two wouldn't you (especially with classically trained ears)? So the equation SP><Hi-SP is totally besides the question, its SP(292)><LP2(132)...

←

let me try and make my point in simple steps: Nh900 Vs Rh10

Scenario 1: You mainly listen to music

PLayer of choice : Rh10

Reason: 1. Chances are majority of the people here have a large mp3 library. It plays directly without transcoding and the quality for me seems perfect while i am travelling. audiophile quality is reserved for PCM..

2. Say you have 50 cds of various genres. Would you sit and record all 50 real time in SP mode just so that you can play it on your car player or hi fi module?? Chances are you will use the LP2 mode in either SS or SB and transfer it faster than real time. At least thats what I do. You can do this with the Rh10 also..

Scenario 2: You mainly record music live

Recorder of choice: Rh10

Reason: 1. The OLED screen is kick ass.. You can see the levels clearly, the battery life is fantastic, there is an AA atachment etc.. You could also record using the Nh900 but viewing leves needs a remote.. i personally like minimal peripeherals while taping live.. hate those darned wires...

2. Recording live in Net MD mode is useless anycase because you cannot upload digitally.. So buying the Nh900 for recording just beacuse it has legacy support makes little sense..

3. If you have an old MDLP recorder/player, you can still make SP/LP2/LP4 disks using SS/SB.. The reason why SP/Fake SP doesnt bother me is that you are limited to 80 minutes only.. if i am travelling overnight, i would need to carry many discs... might as well buy a pcdp and listen to many disks in true audiophile quality..

Scenario 3: You listen and record equally

Recorder/Player of choice: Rh10

Reason: 1. Explained above

Cheers..

ps. these are my personal views only.. feel free to add your own

[The Low Volta]

let me try and make my point in simple steps

dude, no need to be condescending

Scenario 1:  You mainly listen to music

hm, I would say, you buy an MP3 player that isn't crippled when playing MP3's, like the RH10 is (see this recent thread)

2. Say you have 50 cds of various genres. Would you sit and record all 50 real time in SP mode just so that you can play it on your car player or hi fi module?? Chances are you will use the LP2 mode in either SS or SB and transfer it faster than real time. At least thats what I do. You can do this with the Rh10 also..

read some posts here on MDCF, in which quite a number of ppl mention the amount of MD's they have recorded in SP and still record that way just because they can't transfer real SP (which is only a software limitation, I agree)...these ppl really won't buy 2nd gen just because of this 'no more real SP at all' limitation...

Scenario 2: You mainly record music live

Recorder of choice: Rh10

Reason: 1. The OLED screen is kick ass.. You can see the levels clearly, the battery life is fantastic, there is an AA atachment etc.. You could also record using the Nh900 but viewing leves needs a remote.. i personally like minimal peripeherals while taping live.. hate those darned wires...

or you are recording stealthly and are very glad only to pull out the remote and keep the player well hidden, the lit-LCD-remote just works as a charm and allows any action except for entering the recording-menu (which can be avoided, see my post up higher)-> NH900 wins, unless you import a RH10 from Japan

2. Recording live in Net MD mode is useless anycase because you cannot upload digitally.. So buying the Nh900 for recording just beacuse it has legacy support makes little sense..

I agree on that first part, but this is besides the question, see my reasons for real SP-support above

The reason why SP/Fake SP doesnt bother me is that you are limited to 80 minutes only.. if i am travelling overnight, i would need to carry many discs... might as well buy a pcdp and listen to many disks in true audiophile quality..

but as you said, that is just you...and there are a lot of other ppl

Scenario 3: You listen and record equally

Recorder/Player of choice: Rh10

Reason: 1. Explained above

again, as you said, that is your opinion, for me the choice for NH900 is just as obvious, as only and really only the OLED on the RH10 is something I miss on the NH900...

ah, and if one would like to play through a HiFi (by line out) then...wait a minute, the RH10 hasn't got a 'line out'... so perhaps the NH900 is just that bit more versatile if you couldn't be bothered with MP3

these are also only my personal views (I have never tried to pretend otherwise), I just tried to inform someone who asked for personal views... if I have offended you by replying that the Hi-SP(256bps)><SP(292bps) discussion is not relevant here but rather the difference between real SP(292)><fake SP(132), I'm sorry... but it's jus no good buying the newest if it won't do what you need so I just tried to inform him to the best of my personal knowledge (read my posts again, you will find positive points of the RH10 mentioned also)

greetings, Volta

[veezhun]

thelowvolta

no one is being condescending.. simple means simple...

the reason of my post was to give my point between the nh900 and the rh10.. i would surely recommend an iriver or the rio karma for listening only.. between the rh10 and nh900, i would choose the rh10 for listening..

as far as recording goes, if SP is so important to the person, surely the Nh900 is the recorder of choice. point well taken... otherwise, both get the job done sooperbly

finally.. peace.. was just trying to make my point

[The Low Volta]

finally.. peace.. was just trying to make my point

←

ok, just reacted 'cause I was quoted right above the 'simple' part, looked to be directed at me

well I agree, both machines are great... and both have their own pros and contras...so ppl should chosse by their needs.

The format is still young, so let's hope the Sony ppl who are brave enough to read these forums learn their lessons and combine all pros in one moderately priced mega-Hi-MD...and ditch the cons while they are at it

I mean, a combination of the good aspects of the NH900 (line out, backwards compatibility,...) and of the RH10 (OLED/MP3-support but without the strange behaviour in the higher frequencies please,...), available all over the world with full accessories (and also without for the cheapos) and with an easily removable Eurocapping (without would be illegal here ) would sell brilliantly... All 9000+ MDCF-members would get one I guess , I know I would!

If they would clean up SS in the proces and add real-SP-transfer possibilities to SS and SB they could even forget about the backwards compatibility and make the units cheaper to produce...

but well, we'll just keep on dreaming, 'cause it's actually more likely that Sony abandons the format than that they will create one player that really answers all consumer needs I'm afraid...but I don't think either one will happen in any near future

Greetings and no hard feelings, Volta

[1kyle]

The trouble with the RH10 is that it seems to fall between two stools.

It doesn't give people who want to make their own recordings enough possibilities compared with what went before (900, NH1 etc). while at the same time is trying to beat Ipods at their own game and failing at that as well since MP3 playback is not very good . I can't verify that myself as I never use MP3's but there's enough around the net to say there IS a problem in this area.

Now in my book each succeding generation should offer MORE possibilities --not less.

so why have we lost

1) Line out,

2) a remote (at least for most of the world outside Japan)

3) ability to record in legacy formats (SP/LP2/LP4) at least on 80 Min discs --as there is still a HUGE amount of this around --especially high end shelf / stand alone / PROFESSIONAL units --surely people will want to listen on these legacy units.

Any new unit also should have an Optical Out --- after all what's the point of being able to record my own music in beautiful PCM if I can only play it back using an Analog Line out ===> analog Line in on an external piece of kit. I'd like to plug the optical directly into an Optical in on my Hi-Fi gear.

-- Not all of us want to stay huddled over computer keyboards getting the PCM into a computer then making a CD to then play it on external kit which is what I wanted to do directly in the first place WITHOUT using a computer. DRM stuff should be manageable --especially for your OWN recorded music.

The only reason I can see for getting a newer RH10 over the 900 or NH1 seems to be that you get a nice screen on playback -- similar to but definitely better than the ipods otherwise you've actually LOST functionality.

I get the feeling that Sony still hasn't quite made up its mind --two steps forwards and three steps backwards.

There's zillions of professional users out their who've been using pro MD gear for ages --DAT has been essentially dead for years. --Just go into any Radio station in the UK now --they are all using MD's rather than tape --OK expensive high end PRO studio stuff but MD nonetheless.

OK current Studio gear will last for a good while yet --but so far Sony has only been addressing the consumer sector.

Nobody really wants to go back to using DAT again so how about it Sony -- you've introduced HI-MD which is what was universally wanted --higher capacity discs --but so far no professional quality gear to go with it yet --and each model seems to be going further and further away from the PRO market.

Cheers

-K

Edited June 13, 2005 by 1kyle

[sushi]

Advantages of the RH10:

OLED

Disadvantages:

As I don't own one personally, I'll let someone else make the list. But let's have a "my md is better than yours" thread. With lots of "Oh, yes it is!" and "Oh, no it'isn't" posts.

I think that most people agree that on the whole Sony messed up again with the 2nd generation. We're all still waiting for that perfect md player. The one that seems so easy to produce in our humble opinion but so far fetched and extravagant in Sonyland.

What? Line out and a remote? Next thing you know they'll be asking for a decent battery!

ps. Oh, yes it is!