Hi-md And Compatibility Options

[bri]

Quick question:

When buying songs online there's usually enough format options (not always my first preference but it happens from time to time) what format is best to purchase keeping the Hi-MD in mind? This is bearing in mind cost, quality and ease of use.

FLAC is obviously great but expensive - plus you have to convert it to wav. I can't really afford to buy anything but really precious/important stuff with this.

MP3 is (a lot) cheaper but is fairly lossy & has those gaps preventing nice single playback - however moves to the Hi-MD very easily. Annoys me to buy a seriously flawed format when the provider is offering other options...such as:

OGG, etc. - Lossy compared to FLAC but a better format for listening on a PC. Can one even convert ogg -> ATRAC or is it OGG -> wav -> ATRAC?

Any advice? This is only for purchasing options so no need to bring up DRM or CD-Ripping!

Thanks

[Damage]

The RH10 can play back MP3, ATRAC3/plus, and OpenMG-PCM (DRM'd uncompressed music file). Anything else will require conversion from its native format to any of the three that RH10 can play back.

So, if you want to play OGG files, it'd require that intermediary step to WAV conversion.

[ROMBUSTERS]

yup MDs only support PCM/MP3/Atrac/Atrac3/Atrac3+ and everything else, as Damage said, needs to be converted to wav first.

But if you don't want to lose any quality from your FLAC or OGG songs on your PC, just transfer to the MD as PCM, takes up more space but you won't lose anything

[Syrius]

Keep also in mind that SS will accept WMA files, but will convert them to ATRAC.

[faelnor]

Keep also in mind that SS will accept WMA files, but will convert them to ATRAC.

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<trolling>WMA ? What's this thing ?</trolling>

I'm currently converting my whole mp3 / ogg / musepack (lossy) library to ogg and my whole bunch of CD-DAs to FLAC, with burning on DVD then converting through PCM to ATRAC for my Hi-MD in mind.

I really hope the PCM to ATRAC conversion does not take very long, because we're talking about weeks of music...

[bri]

Right thanks for the input.

faelnor: Why convert all to ogg? It's a better format than mp3 but what about your MDs? Maybe your prepared to use PCM but I can't be getting that little time my discs!

I guess it's mp3 where stuck then. I'd never buy wma but it kind of annoys me not to be able to buy a better lossy format than mp3! Where possible I'll be using FLAC or CD but it's not always.

Ok one other way to look at this is from a portable only POV: If mp3s converted to ATRAC 'supposidly' play better in a MD then forget how they play elsewhere...mp3 would be a better purchase than Ogg.

Or am I fooling myself?! Is ogg -> wav -> atrac = mp3 -> atrac

Arghhh!

[faelnor]

Right thanks for the input.

faelnor: Why convert all to ogg?  It's a better format than mp3 but what about your MDs? 

I want to be able to listen to all my music from a small set of DVDs rather than always searching for my CDs or browsing my hard drive.

Regarding MDs, all FLAC and OGG files on the DVDs will be converted to .wav then fed to the MDs via sonicstage Hi-SP. I plan on buying enough Hi-MDs to store most of my audio, so this operation will only be done once.

Also, the only step where audio data may be lost due to the compression is the PCM -> ATRAC3+ conversion in SonicStage.

I do all this to have some sort of standardized way of storing audio in my library. Furthermore, I didn't want to directly upload MP3 to the MD, as I don't trust sony and their MP3 decoder.

I guess it's mp3 where stuck then.  I'd never buy wma but it kind of annoys me not to be able to buy a better lossy format than mp3!    Where possible I'll be using FLAC or CD but it's not always.

For me, that's a real gripe regarding buying online music. It is most of the time MP3 or WMA at low bitrates, which is totally idiotic.

Or am I fooling myself?!  Is ogg -> wav -> atrac = mp3 -> atrac

I think so. I assume that all sonicstage does during the MP3 -> ATRAC process is in fact MP3 -> PCM (.wav) -> ATRAC.

So finally, whatever format you choose for your audio, there will always be a moment where you have to convert to PCM uncompressed audio because the ATRAC encoder only works with this. The difference is that with WMA and MP3, SonicStage does it for you; with any other format, you have to do it manually, which is not really complicated nor time-consuming.

The only thing that I fear is the PCM -> ATRAC conversion by SonicStage, which I've not really benchmarked at this time.

[bri]

The only thing that I fear is the PCM -> ATRAC conversion by SonicStage, which I've not really benchmarked at this time.

←

Thanks for that outline.

If PCM -> ATRAC via SS is a concern, you could stick the wavs on some media and use simple burn or even optical recording...although you'd want to be sure SS sufficiently decreased PCM quality in transcoding.

Regarding every compressed format being altered before ATRAC - that's a really good point. Ogg is superior to mp3 I guess, and with mp3's hogging of MD resources (at least on paper) it would seem easier to just stick everything into ATRAC when it's used with the MD and keep Sony happy

I only use sites that offer FLAC or high quality lossy formats - there's no point otherwise. It's just that FLAC/WAV purchases are heavy on the wallet.

In summary, keep lossless where possible, ogg where not, and ATRAC where MD-related.

Right so! This could take a while!

Cheers.

P.S. I presume SS doesn't edited any files on my HD if I import them directly...i.e. If it does anything to them it keeps a new copy of the edited file in 'My SS Library'. The importance being I don't have to make a backup copy my music folders before really getting to grips with SS as I've only dabbled to date with a few Hi-MDs...

Thanks in advance.

Edited July 15, 2005 by bri

[faelnor]

If PCM -> ATRAC via SS is a concern, you could stick the wavs on some media and use simple burn or even optical recording...although you'd want to be sure SS sufficiently decreased PCM quality in transcoding.

Again, I think that's exactly what SimpleBurner does, in a simplified way. So I'm not too afraid of the time it will take compared to ripping a CD with Simple Burner.

Ah. I'll see, and post some comments when I'm done, in a few weeks

In summary, keep lossless where possible, ogg where not, and ATRAC where MD-related.

Right so!  This could take a while!

Yup, that's what I'm doing. But it's maybe not the most efficient way. I'd like to know what other people think of this. And yes, you have to be quite patient

P.S. I presume SS doesn't edited any files on my HD if I import them directly...i.e. If it does anything to them it keeps a new copy of the edited file in 'My SS Library'.  The importance being I don't have to make a backup copy my music folders before really getting to grips with SS as I've only dabbled to date with a few Hi-MDs...

No it doesn't modify them. I believe .

[bri]

Again, I think that's exactly what SimpleBurner does, in a simplified way. So I'm not too afraid of the time it will take compared to ripping a CD with Simple Burner.

Ah. I'll see, and post some comments when I'm done, in a few weeks 

Yup, that's what I'm doing. But it's maybe not the most efficient way. I'd like to know what other people think of this. And yes, you have to be quite patient 

No it doesn't modify them. I believe  .

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Grand so...Anyone else have any views?

[bri]

By the way what program do you use to convert Ogg to wav? Or is it just your CD burner converting them for you?

I swear that's my last quetsion on the topic!

Edited July 16, 2005 by bri

[Breepee2]

<trolling>WMA ? What's this thing ?</trolling> 

Nothing wrong with WMA Lossless which works fine with SS. Nice combo if you ask me.

[bri]

Nothing wrong with WMA Lossless which works fine with SS. Nice combo if you ask me.

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In my case it still costs as much as FLAC and I'd prefer to use the latter.

I've just been told on Hydrogen Audio that CBR ogg is inferior to VBR mp3...sheesh! I dunno sometimes if many of the users over there are just too picky! I've just bought a few things in CBR because that's the only way they do OGG files and they sound good to me.

Still hate to think I'm buying inferior for the same price.

[faelnor]

By the way what program do you use to convert Ogg to wav?  Or is it just your CD burner converting them for you?

Personally, I use a custom script under Linux (hence the "WMA, WTF ?" ). If I had to do it under windows though, I'd probably stick with whatever does this smoothly and easily

CBR ogg is inferior to VBR mp3

Depends. I'd think VBR MP3 >~ CBR OGG if both are centered on the same bitrate.

[bri]

Depends. I'd think VBR MP3 >~ CBR OGG if both are centered on the same bitrate.

Argh! Who'd have thought...

Well surely ogg still lets you have gapless playback in things like foobar2000, and (although I've yet to try it) this allows for better wav creation if you want to join up an album?

I'm asking here as I find you lot noticably more friendly and down to earth

[Breepee2]

In my case it still costs as much as FLAC and I'd prefer to use the latter.

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No argument there, but if you want full SS compatibility (and lossless) it's the only way at the moment.

[bri]

No argument there, but if you want full SS compatibility (and lossless) it's the only way at the moment.

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Huh? WMA Lossless is directly compatible with SS?!

[ROMBUSTERS]

yes because the way WMA lossless is seen by SS is just as VBR WMA. Works on all test cases

[bri]

Interesting...although it's still gonna cost the same price as FLAC.

Really confused myself at this stage! I bought a few things on CBR Ogg and they sound good I'm hesitent before I go wild! The conversion before MD'ing them is a bit of a pain too.