Audiocard with digital 44.1kHz out

[Breepee2]

I'm going to buy an audiocard to use in a computer specifically built for music playback. What I seek is a card that features a digital out (preferably optical) which can broadcast true 44.1kHz PCM (not like most AC97 chips which convert no-matter-what to 48kHz). I'll be playing back a big archive of FLAC's (ripped from my CD collection) and leave the Digital>Analog conversion to my amplifier. It must support pass-through too for an occasional DVD.

Also, I want this a little cheap I know an M-Audio Revolution 7.1 can do what I want, but it's a tad expensive (€70) and I don't really need fancy 7.1, EAX or A3D. Just a way to get stereo PCM digitally to my amp without resampling to 48kHz.

Any ideas?

[Christopher]

Here you go, mate:

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=5165

[Breepee2]

Is there a way to kiss over the internet? No? OK, just a big virtual hug to you kurisu! It's indeed exactly what I want!

Now the other thing, acquiring it. It seems nowhere for sale here in the Netherlands. I can find some American shops, but some don't ship at all, or calculate shipping costs of $50, a bit too expensive for my taste. No ebay sellers either

Any ideas how to get this part overhere? A respectable shop which ships to Europe? I don't know too much about American webshops (which are good, which aren't etc.).

If anyone can help me with this intercontinental order, please do!

[tommypeters]

Does Chaintech still exist? Neither the www.chaintech.com.tw nor the www.chaintech.dk seems to reply, maybe bought by VIA or another company?

These used to have Chaintech AV-710,, they now have a "Chaintech 7.1 Via VT1721 optical SPDIF out WinCinema":

http://www.ordi.ee/pood/sbch71.html?id=rMZAgGFL&mv_pc=68

[MDX-400]

I'm going to buy an audiocard to use in a computer specifically built for music playback. What I seek is a card that features a digital out (preferably optical) which can broadcast true 44.1kHz PCM (not like most AC97 chips which convert no-matter-what to 48kHz).

Hmm, so are you saying that most AC97 chipsets will convert a 44.1kHz file playing to 48kHz and then back to 44.1kHz when it outputs or that you can't get any other output than 48kHz? Just wondering because I use a soundcard with a C-Media chipset and I can select 44.1 or 48 on the digital output. My motherboard has another C-Media chipset on it and it comes up in Device Manager as an "AC97 Sound Device" and I'm pretty sure you can select 44.1kHz output as well there (but I've never used it since I've never bothered to buy the digital-out bracket for the motherboard).

Does one (or both) of these chipsets convert to 48 and then back to 44.1? Even when using such features as "kernel streaming" (available in Foobar2000 to bypass WaveOut and DirectSound)?

[Breepee2]

Does one (or both) of these chipsets convert to 48 and then back to 44.1?  Even when using such features as "kernel streaming" (available in Foobar2000 to bypass WaveOut and DirectSound)?

Including kernel streaming, since it all happens on-chip, no matter what. It's part of the AC97 standard to send out only 48kHz. Your C-Media chip may do otherwise, but there's only one way to be sure, and that is to check it out with a component that can display the frequency of the signal.

I've BTW confirmed this (because I couldn't believe the stupidity of it) with my Sony 530 MD deck (which displays the incoming frequency).

Since this chaintech seems a little difficult to obtain, are there similar cards out there?

Edited August 15, 2005 by Breepee2

[bug80]

Including kernel streaming, since it all happens on-chip, no matter what. It's part of the AC97 standard to send out only 48kHz. Your C-Media chip may do otherwise, but there's only one way to be sure, and that is to check it out with a component that can display the frequency of the signal.

I've BTW confirmed this (because I couldn't believe the stupidity of it) with my Sony 530 MD deck (which displays the incoming frequency).

Since this chaintech seems a little difficult to obtain, are there similar cards out there?

←

Check out the E-MU 0404. It has analog, optical and coaxial in/out and with the latest drivers it supports 44.1, 48, 96 and 192 kHz sampling rates (16 and 24 bit).

Availability in the Netherlands is good, price is around 99 euro, which may be above your budget, but this card is really good. This card focusses on quality instead of features.

edit: Forgot to mention that there's no Linux support for this card yet, unfortunately

Edited August 15, 2005 by bug80

[Breepee2]

Price is a bit too steep for me.

I can't understand why not one manufacturer though of such a card. I can't be the only one who just want's a no-nonsense optical out which runs 44.1kHz?

[bug80]

Price is a bit too steep for me.

I can't understand why not one manufacturer though of such a card. I can't be the only one who just want's a no-nonsense optical out which runs 44.1kHz?

←

Good question. I did some searching, but couldn't find anything that meets your demands.

When I was searching for a new card, I searched for one I could make recordings with and had an optical out for my Minidisc recorder, so the E-MU 0404 was exactly right for me.

EDIT: I found the Xitel MD-PORT on Ebay, for only $9,95. Not sure if shipping to the Netherlands is possible, though.

Edited August 15, 2005 by bug80

[Christopher]

If you're using that eBay, just get the AV710, here.

[MDX-400]

Including kernel streaming, since it all happens on-chip, no matter what. It's part of the AC97 standard to send out only 48kHz. Your C-Media chip may do otherwise, but there's only one way to be sure, and that is to check it out with a component that can display the frequency of the signal.

Okay well I definitely know my soundcard (not the motherboard chip) does indeed output 44.1kHz when I set the rate in the mixer settings. My DA4ES (which displays all available info about an S/PDIF stream) clearly shows a 44.1kHz rate (Interestingly any PC device with digital output I've ever used only outputs 14-bit S/PDIF! I always thought that accounts for the missing subcode information such as SCMS and track marks, etc.)

As for my on-board sound chipset, I'm pretty sure its drivers also have an option for 44.1kHz output, though I've never tried it. I am going to buy the ~$10 digital output bracket in the near future and try it out.

[Breepee2]

If you're using that eBay, just get the AV710, here.

←

Thanks, when I searched the other day I didn't find anything on ebay.

Edited August 15, 2005 by Breepee2

[Christopher]

Enjoy the sampling rates up to 192KHz.

[Breepee2]

Probably won't (my sources are either 48kHz or 44.1 (DVD & CD)). But it's nice it's there. Maybe one day I'll fold into DVD-A (SACD is better!)

Shipping btw. is a little expensive: ~$32.

Edited August 16, 2005 by Breepee2

[KrazyIvan]

I have been using a SB Extigy with success. I know it tends to be a CPU hog, but I hardly play games. If I do, I just unplug it and revert to my Live! card.

I have read a lot of complaints on the software being buggy but I have not had any problems.

I purchased it second hand through eBay for $45USD.

It has both optical in and out along with coax digital out. One thing I do wish it had was RCA in's/out's. The analog outputs are 3.5mm minijack's which make a bit of a hassle when I want analog. I just ended up getting a 3.5mm minijack cable.

The best feature is that I can use it without powering on my computer. This is good for when I want to listen to music but do not need the computer. I have my Sony ES CD deck plugged into the optical input for that.

[Breepee2]

All Soundblaster devices transcode 44.1kHz sources internally to 48kHz, and if you set the digital out to 44.1kHz, they'll transcode it down to 44.1 again. Not bitperfect.

Creative Soundblasters (Audigy's included) provides fake 44.1 output, and therefore is not suitable for me. If I we're to settle for frequency transcoding, the easiest way would be to let the software apply a high-quality algorithm to get the 44.1 sources up to 48kHz and use any chip out there with optical out and leave the rest to the digital amplifier.

Edited August 16, 2005 by Breepee2

[Christopher]

Would you be able to discern that up/downsampling?

[KrazyIvan]

Would you be able to discern that up/downsampling?

←

I know I cannot.

[Breepee2]

Would you be able to discern that up/downsampling?

←

Nope. But that's not the point. Why should I settle for a solution that tampers with the signal for no purpose? I can't see the reason in that (perhaps only because there's little to no choice).

I'm very fine with old Atrac SP sound quality. Why I still insist on FLAC? I don't need/want unnecessary conversionsteps. There's no technological need anymore to compromise, so why compromise? Why settle for less? It's perfectly possible (easier even) to not alter the actual data.

One bonus with bit-perfect digital signals is of course that you'll always be able to make bit-perfect copies/captures/rescues of sound and music. You can not only use it for playback, but for archiving too. I don't want to be locked into some system (the very reason I advocate FLAC) and having a bitperfect digital line-out is part of that, at least for me. I'll always be able to get my sound out, with no signal degradation whatsoever.

You could say I'm a little overly occupied with 'bitperfectness', but hey, why not?

[KrazyIvan]

It sounds like you have a WOG mentality. That is not a bad thing.

*EDIT* I am only relaying my experience with the Extigy. You have every right to have your pure 44.1. For me it is a mute point. I have what I want and it works for me.

I don't know much on the Phillips Arelium (SP?) but that is another alternative I considered before getting the Extigy. It did not work independantly from the computer so I stopped my research on it there.

Edited August 16, 2005 by KrazyIvan