M-Audio Microtrack vs HI-MD

[jazmaan]

With the M-Audio Microtrack now available for 399 and 2.2 GB Microdrive cards going for 79, why the heck would anyone want the NRM-crippled, Sonicstage-bound HI-MD?

I'm so glad I didn't buy HI-MD. The Microtrack is the size of a deck of cards. It records 24/96 bit WAV files or 96-320 kbps native MP3s. It has USB 2.0 for quick downloads to computer. It has line-in, SPDIF-in, and even has Phantom Power mic preamps. It saves to Compact Flash media or the (much cheaper) Microdrive CFII cards.

For MUSICIANS this appears to be the ANSWER. Isn't it?

Edited September 7, 2005 by jazmaan

[LupinIV]

With the M-Audio Microtrack now available for 399 and 2.2 GB Microdrive cards going for 79,  why the heck would anyone want the NRM-crippled,  Sonicstage-bound HI-MD?

I'm so glad I didn't buy HI-MD.   The Microtrack is the size of a deck of cards.  It records 24/96 bit WAV files or 96-320 kbps native MP3s.  It has USB 2.0 for quick downloads to computer.  It has line-in, SPDIF-in, and even has Phantom Power mic preamps.  It saves to Compact Flash media or the (much cheaper) Microdrive CFII cards.

For MUSICIANS this appears to be the ANSWER.   Isn't it?

←

1) HI-MD media = $4 - $6 - This already beat the s@@@T out of your M-Audio

1a) How many microdrives can you stick in your pocket when you record PCM? Guess Hi-MD media beat you here too!!!!

2) DRM has become old school since Sonicstage 3.2 so hi-md beats you again

3) What about battery life? Guess hi-md beats you again

4) MP3, you can keep it. Atrac was made to listen to music and sounds way better, MP3 was made for compression. Guess you can argue that this is subjective, but hey, Hi-MD beat you 3 out of 4.

So you bought the M-Audio because.......???!?!?

Cheers

Edited September 7, 2005 by LupinIV

[bobt]

With the M-Audio Microtrack now available for 399 and 2.2 GB Microdrive cards going for 79,  why the heck would anyone want the NRM-crippled,  Sonicstage-bound HI-MD?

I'm so glad I didn't buy HI-MD.  The Microtrack is the size of a deck of cards.  It records 24/96 bit WAV files or 96-320 kbps native MP3s.  It has USB 2.0 for quick downloads to computer.  It has line-in, SPDIF-in, and even has Phantom Power mic preamps.  It saves to Compact Flash media or the (much cheaper) Microdrive CFII cards.

For MUSICIANS this appears to be the ANSWER.  Isn't it?

←

My friend,

If you don't like the format why be a member?

There is no "perfect device", but IMHO dollar for dollar, and feature for feature MD is a pretty good buy, I've recorded with pretty much every format that is consumer available, and again MD is very hard to beat, especially with the new sonic stage.

Take care,

Bob

[jazmaan]

1) HI-MD media = $4 - $6 - This already beat the s@@@T out of your M-Audio

1a) How many microdrives can you stick in your pocket when you record PCM? Guess Hi-MD media beat you here too!!!!

2) DRM has become old school since Sonicstage 3.2 so hi-md beats you again

3) What about battery life? Guess hi-md beats you again

4) MP3, you can keep it. Atrac was made to listen to music and sounds way better, MP3 was made for compression. Guess you can argue that this is subjective, but hey, Hi-MD beat you 3 out of 4.

So you bought the M-Audio because.......???!?!?

Cheers

←

1) No denying that HI-MD media is cheaper than CF or Microdrive media. But I don't need more than a few media cards. I don't intend to use them for archiving. Just for temporary storage until the recordings can be downloaded to computer.

1a) Microdrives and CF's are a lot smaller than HI-MDs so I guess I can stuff a lot more of them in my pocket.

2) DRM is still a part of Sonicstage, don't try and deny it. Sure there are hacks and workarounds, but why would I even WANT to be forced to used Sonicstage at all? With Microdrive I can download to ANY folder on my computer or anybody ELSE'S computer with no limitations whatsoever. How many hoops do YOU have to jump through to download your live recordings onto someone else's computer that doesn't have Sonicstage installed?

3) Microtrack's 8 hours of battery life is plenty enough for me.

4) MP3 is the standard, like it or not. Nobody trades Atracs. Winamp doesn't read ATRACS does it? You can keep your double secret proprietary format. And I notice you don't even want to discuss Microtracks 24/96 bit wav capability or the fact that it can deliver phantom power to PRO quality mics.

[atrain]

that's great, i hope you enjoy it. please stay civil however, all of you any handbags & i'll get mad.

DRM is still a part of Sonicstage, don't try and deny it

why deny the truth? it is however far easier to use & looks like it's getting easier every day. for you 8 hours of battery life is enough, for many on here using sonic stage is a limitation they can cope with for the larger battery capacity.

MP3 is the standard, like it or not. Nobody trades Atracs. Winamp doesn't read ATRACS does it? You can keep your double secret proprietary format

i don't think you've really got an open mind on this.

[jazmaan]

My friend,

If you don't like the format why be a member?

There is no "perfect device", but IMHO dollar for dollar, and feature for feature MD  is a pretty good buy, I've recorded with pretty much every format  that is consumer available, and again MD is very hard to beat, especially with the new sonic stage.

Take care,

Bob

←

I've been a member since before HI-MD was even released. I had HI hopes for the format and was seriously disappointed by Sony's crippleware. Microtrack is more expensive, but not prohibitively so. Especially when it does what a musician needs. Maybe the competition from Microtrack and others will cause Sony to get off its butt and release a recorder that is EASY for musicians to work with.

By the way, Microtrack even works with Macintosh. Last I checked, there was no Mac version of Sonicstage.

I apologize if my posts have been too strident. But I wasn't the one who began by saying that one format "beats the Sh--" out of the other. That post was the one that set the tone. I will try to be more civil and not rise to baiting from now on.

Edited September 8, 2005 by jazmaan

[atrain]

sorry but there is a mac version of himd aka m10 & m100 models with compliant software. sonicstage 3.2 is no drm free for self recorded & for new files imported from cd or mp3, only purchased files have drm.

however if you do end up purchasing this then by all means write a review & add some pics to put in the off topic section, i'm sure all members will be interested.

[brandorf]

With the M-Audio Microtrack now available for 399 and 2.2 GB Microdrive cards going for 79,  why the heck would anyone want the NRM-crippled,  Sonicstage-bound HI-MD?

I'm so glad I didn't buy HI-MD.  The Microtrack is the size of a deck of cards.  It records 24/96 bit WAV files or 96-320 kbps native MP3s.  It has USB 2.0 for quick downloads to computer.  It has line-in, SPDIF-in, and even has Phantom Power mic preamps.  It saves to Compact Flash media or the (much cheaper) Microdrive CFII cards.

For MUSICIANS this appears to be the ANSWER.  Isn't it?

←

WHERE IN THE WORLD are you finding microdrives that cheap? I just checked my sources and the best price I found was $115 for a 2gb card. I'd by several at that price.

Edited September 8, 2005 by brandorf

[ynos]

M-Audio Microtrack is for recording (listening is unlikely $$$), MD is for recording + listening (cheap media).

[MDGB2]

Card based media will always be flawed. Many see memory cards as a 'One off' expense, but they are not indestructable and will eventually lose they're ability to store data. Probably more quickly if it gets plenty of regular usage playing music. Its also more expensive (and will be for some time) to upgrade the capacity in a card based music player/camera/whatever.

Me, I just stick another disc in....

Edited September 8, 2005 by MDGB2

[1kyle]

WHERE IN THE WORLD are you finding microdrives that cheap?  I just checked my sources and the best price I found was $115 for a 2gb card.  I'd by several at that price.

←

As a professional photographer I DO know that you can source microdrives as cheap as the poster suggests --and you can get them with capacities as high as 6GB at the moment (although whether that 6GB would work in the device is a mute point as it would certainly have to use FAT32 rather than the FAT system which has a max file sizeof 2GB).

This device would actually be great for me to take on a shoot as I could always use the microdrive as an extra camera card.

As for it Replacing MD's --I don't really think so --- labelling and archiving loads of microdrives for playing at home woulds be TOO finicky -- you can get stuff that's just TOO small to handle.

Imagine you have say 100 of these 1GB microdrives and you want to play song XXXX --- how in the world do you find which microdrive it's on without either trying every one or using a computer. Labelling MD's externally is relatively simple.

The problems of serious use of these small devices will soon become readily apparent once the novelty has worn off --and remember for playing music (or even finding it) you don't want to be stuck on a computer..

I don't think we need to rant here --there's nothing wrong with using some of these devices but they won't replace the MD.

I might get one of these myself --but this would certainly be IN ADDITION TO the MD not to replace it.

BTW request to original poster (or others)

Please post a link to this device and / or post a review.

Cheers

-K

Edited September 8, 2005 by 1kyle

[Syrius]

Also, SS 3.2 doesn't have DRM anymore as long as you remove the little check mark on the options menu. No more hacks or work arounds, w00t.

[ynos]

As for it Replacing MD's --I don't really think so --- labelling and archiving loads of microdrives for playing at home woulds be TOO finicky -- you can get stuff that's just TOO small to handle.

-K

←

[ozpeter]

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Micr...k2496-main.html

Just because this device and an MD recorder are both small recording devices doesn't mean they compete head to head. A hammer and a screwdriver will both fit in a normal toolbox but you use them for rather different tasks, and nobody would say "a hammer is better than a screwdriver" unless specifying the precise purpose you want to use each for.

If the media cost was identical, you might start to have a discussion on your hands, but at present, the cost of CF cards etc is such that any device of this sort is purely intended as a location capture device. Its feature set and cost points to professional use as the intended market.

CF media is in fact remarkably robust - there's the famous photo taken of one digital camera by another, the first being accidentally destroyed in an explosion, but its card still worked.

As for knowing what is on which disk, well, here I simply number them and keep a list of contents on a searchable page on my PC. One could do just the same with memory cards. Sadly my old eyes are not up to precise labelling of either media.

[ozpeter]

http://www.core-sound.com/pdaudio-to-micro...comparison.html makes interesting reading. It seems to me that perhaps M-Audio have got Core Sound worried if they find it necessary to go into this much detail to defend their product, but perhaps I am reading too much into it.

[e1ghtyf1ve]

We seriously need to post a sign somewhere that says: "Please don't feed the trolls!"

...and I need to follow my own advice.

Cheers

PS Can you say overpriced junk? The only quality parts are the CF cards/microdrives. Those must be purchased ($$$) separately.

Edited September 8, 2005 by e1ghtyf1ve

[e1ghtyf1ve]

http://www.core-sound.com/pdaudio-to-micro...comparison.html makes interesting reading.  It seems to me that perhaps M-Audio have got Core Sound worried if they find  it necessary to go into this much detail to defend their product, but perhaps I am reading too much into it.

←

I'm assuming that this topic will be moved elsewhere by the moderators, so I will add some more thoughts.

This is very interesting reading, and reminds me of the arguments I made in an earlier post:

e1ghtyf1ve's drivel

Keep in mind that Core Sound sells the Microtrack, so why should they be worried? Another thing I keep noticing is that too many competitive products are constantly compared to MD or DAT, but not Hi-MD. We own DAT, MD, HD, CF, Open Reel, and cassette decks, mostly top-of-the-line. Hi-MD is one of the best sounding/recording technologies I have ever auditioned, and I believe that only Sony's clumsy marketing, particularly in North America (still a large market), coupled with their dual-personality syndrome (content provider), has prevented it from gaining wider acceptance. Still, I'd dare wager that Sony has already sold more Hi-MD recorders than M-Audio will with the Microtrack in a lifetime.

Edited September 8, 2005 by e1ghtyf1ve

[imdurc]

Well, I'm a musician and sound engineer and I'm loving my NH900 Hi-MD. I grab a mic and the Hi-MD out of my bag and start recording whatever I want. Whether it be interesting sounds or song ideas. The only likeable thing about the microtrack, for me, is the 24/96 recording. However, while I do like that format, I'd only use it for very very specialised one-offs, e.g. theater filming for dvd.

Nope... I'm going to stick with the wonder that IS Hi-MD.

Adam.

[migt]

3) Microtrack's 8 hours of battery life is plenty enough for me.

that's playback, right? And what about rec? powering a pro mic? and finally, how good a preamp may be, that fits in a "deck of cards" sized unit? You see, every portable unit has it's pros and cons, and you can start saying that Hi-MD can't do many of those, but: 1) I didn't pay $500 plus media for my MZ-NH1. 2) My MZ-NH1 with a Microphone Madness two-point mic give me satisfying enough results, and excellent price-to-quality ratio.

[jazmaan]

WHERE IN THE WORLD are you finding microdrives that cheap? I just checked my sources and the best price I found was $115 for a 2gb card. I'd by several at that price.

http://www.upgradenation.com/ProductDetail...ctCode=FM%2DM22

2.2 GB microdrives $78 and free shipping too!

By the way, today in my local paper, Fry's Electronics is advertising 2GB Compact Flash cards for $98!

Edited October 3, 2005 by jazmaan

[jazmaan]

that's playback, right? And what about rec? powering a pro mic? and finally, how good a preamp may be, that fits in a "deck of cards" sized unit? You see, every portable unit has it's pros and cons, and you can start saying that Hi-MD can't do many of those, but: 1) I didn't pay $500 plus media for my MZ-NH1. 2) My MZ-NH1 with a Microphone Madness two-point mic give me satisfying enough results, and excellent price-to-quality ratio.

It's hard to get details yet, not many people are reviewing the Microtrack who actually OWN one. But from what I've read its THREE hours of phantom-powered recording or EIGHT hours of NON-phantom powered recording.

I have never been a fan of the Minidisc for archiving and playback/listening. I use it for recording live performances and musical rehearsals - and that's ALL that I've ever used it for. Once the recording is complete, I transfer anything worth saving to computer. Anything worth sharing, I will burn to CD or save it to my iPod. I would never carry around my Minidisc recorder and a handful of discs just for listening pleasure.

So I don't expect to use a Microtrack any differently. But for MY limited purposes, the Microtrack seems superior to MD or even HI-MD. The only people I know who have actually purchased the Microtrack are musicians. Maybe if Sony had produced a line of Hi-MD's aimed squarely at musicians, I'd be singing the praises of Hi-MD too. But as far as I'm concerned, Hi-MD was just a tease. And now the speculation is rampant that Sony will be abandoning the format. So I welcome Microtrack. I'm just waiting for a round of reviews from actual owners before I make the plunge.

Edited October 3, 2005 by jazmaan

[lamewing]

Card based media will always be flawed. Many see memory cards as a 'One off' expense, but they are not indestructable and will eventually lose they're ability to store data. Probably more quickly if it gets plenty of regular usage playing music. Its also more expensive (and will be for some time) to upgrade the capacity in a card based music player/camera/whatever.

Me, I just stick another disc in....

I have to call foul on that one. Flash memory can usually be written to about 100,000 times. At 10 times a day (writing), your card will last about 27 years. So by the time the card loses its ability to save data, Iam sure the discussion will no longer be valid.

[lamewing]

It's hard to get details yet, not many people are reviewing the Microtrack who actually OWN one. But from what I've read its THREE hours of phantom-powered recording or EIGHT hours of NON-phantom powered recording.

I have never been a fan of the Minidisc for archiving and playback/listening. I use it for recording live performances and musical rehearsals - and that's ALL that I've ever used it for. Once the recording is complete, I transfer anything worth saving to computer. Anything worth sharing, I will burn to CD or save it to my iPod. I would never carry around my Minidisc recorder and a handful of discs just for listening pleasure.

So I don't expect to use a Microtrack any differently. But for MY limited purposes, the Microtrack seems superior to MD or even HI-MD. The only people I know who have actually purchased the Microtrack are musicians. Maybe if Sony had produced a line of Hi-MD's aimed squarely at musicians, I'd be singing the praises of Hi-MD too. But as far as I'm concerned, Hi-MD was just a tease. And now the speculation is rampant that Sony will be abandoning the format. So I welcome Microtrack. I'm just waiting for a round of reviews from actual owners before I make the plunge.

I have to agree with you on this one.

I have use MD for several years, since my first Sony MZ-R70. I loved that unit. Since then, I have owned Sony's R900, R909, N1, NH600, NH900, and DH10P (which is going back) and a Sharp MD-DR7. Of all of them, the MDLP (non NetMD or HiMD) were my favorites. Why? I really didn't care for the idea of transferring music to MD from my computer, especially since the encoder isn't as good as the hardware encoder AND the nonsense about displaying asian fonts on the MD. It is a pain to do, only certian units do it, and NONE do Hangul. So, the old models worked great. Grab a CD and an optical cable and hook up the DR7, etc up to my PS2 or use my MD/CD dubbing unit. I also was never fond of the sound the NetMD and HiMDs made when they were accessing while attached to my PC. It sounded like they were always ready to implode or something.

What I am saying is that I like using the older MDLP units for music listening since I loved the japanesy feel of the MD and the quasi-futuristic idea of so much music on a little disc. BUT, reality is reality and 160 minutes of music on a MD is rather limiting, especially since I don't archive my music to disc. At best I would have 5 or 6 MD ready at any one time. Now, with flash units that have no moving parts and HDD units that hold so much data and are so fast to load, it seems that the NetMD and HiMD are pretty much outclassed. It is funny that the older MDLP units aren't as easy to compare to the HDD units since they are completely audio recorders. The NetMD and HiMD, being a hybrid which can be used with a PC, are easily compared to the newer equipment and just don't compare.

For recording, these new flash recorders seem great. 8 hours is a long time and the time will only get better. Remember, with the advent of HiMD the battery life WORSENED considerably - partically due to the crappy battery choices and partically due to the nature of the HiMD media. Unlike HiMD, I do see the battery life getting better in future iterations of these flash recorders.

I think we are getting a bit confused here. Like jazmaan said, he records and then transfers the data immediately at USB 2.0 speeds. He doesn't use the drive inside the Microtrack for archving while many of the MDers here do use MD as an archive system. I cannot imagine owning 900 CDs and then also owning even half that number in MD for listening at home. I would rather just load up the CD. That brings back to many memories of my room filled with stacks and stacks of cassette tapes!

After the Sony "announcement" I have decided to go with a flash recorder for my recording needs. For listening I will go back to "the old ways" and pick up a few more MDLP recorders and players for the near future. I always liked the sound of SP better than Hi-SP anyway.

Please guys, don't start defending MD as the be-all-end-all like some of the pod people do on the iPod and Mac sites. It is scary there since they cannot see the limitations to their units. I hope we can see the limits to the MD and be honest about it.

If Sony did decide to keep even one or two units around per year, I would LOVE for them to go back to the idea of the MD as a recorder/player. The PC connection stuff is nice, but it shouldn't be the main focus of the unit - that should be a bonus.

Then again, what do I know, I am old.

[ozpeter]

Check out http://noisetheatre.blogspot.com/2005/07/m...s-minidisc.html and the various links on that page for interesting reading on this overall subject. Note that items on the page are like three consecutive words which point to three different links - kinda confusing.

[silence]

All of these has been said before by various enlighten posters:

MD does not transfer easily

HI-MD up until a month ago had a pathetic one-of transfer restriction.

Macintosh comparability happened just less than a month ago.

Ridiculous software requirements to get one's music to the computer.

and be able to play it - give me a break Sony

Handicapped units that allow digital in but not digital out.

More ridiculous still is the proprietary ATRAC format - hello!! who else uses that Sh#t

Amazingly clumsy User Interface. on ALL their MD units - the word counter-intutive comes to mind

Let me say it here: the Japanese can make incredibly complex technology but can't program to save their lives.I have been in the professional video for years and this weakness carries through to the broadcast line.

TOO LITTLE TOO LATE SONY BOY

the market has spoken

I have loved recording concerts and family reunions on my three MD's and HI-MD,

BUT I hated getting the music out of them to edit and burn to CD'

I never ever used them to play music - I used a clever thing called the iPod

M-Audio's MicroTracker is just the opposite

USB transfer to any computer.

Drag-N-Drop to any location

No encryption whatsoever

Standard WAV -PCM files

professional connectors

no moving parts - save for microdiscs

large lighted LCD -

Ipod sized

Digital in and out

Phanton power

ETC

All of this from the first unit out of the factory. It can only get better.

I don't care if they only make 1 per year as long as it is availble for me to use.

I got mine from cascade media for $350 inc. shipping

I dont' carry microdiscs. All I need is one of them to record up to 4 hours and transfer after to CD

For my purposes there is no match.

I'm not emotional about technology- This is not a "my daddy can beat your daddy argument."

Neither Sony nor M-Audio know me personally nor do I think they care. - the feeling is mutual. I do however like the members of this forum, specially the ones that disagree with me. I will miss their rantings when it is all over.

[jadeclaw]

And 75 bucks every two to three years.

You better read the Battery Replacement Policy:

http://www.m-audio.com/images/en/warranty/MT_Warranty.pdf

That alone kills it for me.

[pisialvar]

I don't like the idea of drag-n-drop. It seems to be lame, like most of the HD and Microtrack stuff. It seems to be only a MP3 player and that's it. But i still find MD a much more effectively used. You still can use MD without a computer, just record with optical cable or with mic/line-input a live concert (sure you can do the same with microtrack, but i don't know about listening with it?).

It's up to everybodys own choice. I prefer MD.

[greenmachine]

What's wrong with drag & drop? Oh, you're right - having an encrypted .hma file which needs to be converted to .oma and finally to .wav seems much better...

[pisialvar]

Isn't that a wonderful thing to spend your time on then?

[greenmachine]

Hell no! I always need at least 2GB free disc space to upload a 1GB recording because of all these unnecessary steps.

[Christopher]

The only thing that is a waste of time is this incredibly biased discussion -- the fallacious misconceptions, delusions of grandeur (e.g. "No one likes ATRAC"; my thoughts? oh thank you, you must speak for everyone oh god of codecs), and even the anti-japanese sentiment is absurd. The tone of this discussion is not what we consider appropriate here; both jazmaan and silence consistantly come here and post in this manner -- the links I've provided speak volumes as to what their intent is.

I welcome discussions of this nature, but look at the way your projecting your thoughts here. I would probably avoid this recording product simply because of the disgusting attitude a few of you have wielded whilst trying to support it.