mrmaxwell Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Looking to buy a recorder for live recording and am very interested in a HiMD recorder mainly for its PCM (uncompressed) recording ability. Already have a batt box/bass rolloff and some cardoid mics from SP.What other HDD devices are capable of uncompressed/WAV/PCM recording and how do they compare to HiMD?Great info on these forums is helping my decision - thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozpeter Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 http://www.tascam.com/Products/hdp2.html looks nice - but way over the top!Read around here a bit and you'll find several previous discussions (some very recent) which bemoan the fact that a really good replacement for Hi-MD has yet to appear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insrc Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 The transfer of live recordings to PC via USB is a pain process. It may even fail to transfer some of recordings. Other than that hi-MD is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmaxwell Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 The transfer of live recordings to PC via USB is a pain process. It may even fail to transfer some of recordings. Other than that hi-MD is great.Considering most live PCM recordings are 75mins+ on a HiMD close to 1 Gb what pain is experienced in the transfer process? What is the SS software like to use compared to say, iTunes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insrc Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Of course the pain has nothing to do with time/length. I don't care that much if it takes only 2 times faster than real time (unlike some high seed usb recorders). Really.The pain is in the transfer process itself. Look in the software section on this site, or at other sites, and you notice that often hi-MD recorer refuse to transfer data to PC. And it's not only because people do something wrong, believe me, it's because lousy sonicstage. To be short, the main reason is the files protection that sony uses, which is not perfect. Of course you can always just buy hi-MD and see for yourself.What other HDD devices are capable of uncompressed/WAV/PCM recording and how do they compare to HiMD?Nomad Jukebox 3, MicroTracker, Edirol R1, and some other. Check the taperssection.com for more info.Of course hi-MD has it's advantages as well. Small and stealthy size is one of them. That's why I bought and use this thing. There are some disadvantages too, but nothing is perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Whats your maximum budget, mrmaxwell? Welcome to the forums, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynos Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 And it's not only because people do something wrong, believe me, it's because lousy sonicstage. To be short, the main reason is the files protection that sony uses, which is not perfect. Of course you can always just buy hi-MD and see for yourself.Nomad Jukebox 3, MicroTracker, Edirol R1, and some other. Check the taperssection.com for more info.Of course hi-MD has it's advantages as well. Small and stealthy size is one of them. That's why I bought and use this thing. There are some disadvantages too, but nothing is perfect.I used my HiMD most on live recording once I have "pain" using SS but now not anymore after I upgraded to SS3.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I haven't had any problems with SS 3.2 myself. The best alternatives would be an older iRiver IHP120/140 or one of the Cowon HD players. Some people have mentioned that the SQ isn't as good. But I don't see how thats an issue if you are using an external mic, and it records to WAV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insrc Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 (edited) I used my HiMD most on live recording once I have "pain" using SS but now not anymore after I upgraded to SS3.2 I agree, upgrading to SS3.2 eliminated a lot of problems, but I still experience problems from time to time. Now it allows to copy the tracks multiple times. I found that SS3.2 version on this site (without online option and some bug fixes) works best for me.Still sometimes it refuses to transfer the recording - gives me an access error. In this cases I have to find workarounds, which I call "pain". Split the recording into smaller peieces, use total recorder, or other methods. Even after some failed attempts it just transfers ok without a reason. Edited October 12, 2005 by insrc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangezero Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Hello,just throwing in my thoughts. i used an archos 20gb recorder, one of the original ones that could go up to 160kbs vbr. it sounded ok but not as good as my older sharp minidisc recorders. it was easier to use because it goes straight to mp3 (which i realize is bad). it was easier to make copies for friends. the recording levels are hard to see, but it was a lit up screen. i put in a 40gb drive and now i could record for hours on end. also, rockbox is a newer firmware and it adds lots of stability and useful features. i do think in general, most mp3/wav recorders that are harddrive or memory card based sacrifice a lot of sound quality. plus, they do stupid things like update the firmware and it adds restrictions to the recording quality. ie, i bought a jriver 1gb drive and besides not having recording levels, they restricted line in recording to 128 or 160 when u update the firmware. the device can physically record at 320kbs so thats just stupid recording industry shenanegans trying to make my life more difficult.most of these problem with md are hopefully going to be solved with my new rh10. finally a backlight screen, and in the 8 years i've been doing this technology has come a long way and people around me wont be as shocked to see me looking at a little electronic device. i'm sure most would think its a phone. the m-audio microtrack has promise, but i doubt its any better than the current himd offerings as far as audio quality (maybe a bit below after reading some reviews). cost was about twice as much as well. its amazing i paid $150 less for a pcm recording himd than i did a sharp 701 a few years back. too bad they can't keep all this piracy junk from infringing on technology. thats another issue i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozo Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 It may well be that the best has just been announced:http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=12630&hl=But no-one knows yet because there are no accessories that will use the new stereo recording capability on the iPod.If there is no restriction on the file size then the only limitation will be battery life on the iPod.Could it be that some wise soul will launch an attachment that adds microphone and power to the iPod using the connector at the bottom?Given the lunatic speed with which such accessories appear we may not have to wait long to find out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 The iPod as recorder is vaporware. Apparently previous iPods also had this capability, but Apple didn't enable it--you needed Linux to use it as a recorder. Whether or not the capability is there on the new iPods, you are still going to need some kind of outboard box--preamp, battery box--because it's Line-in, not mic-in, and some other kind of outboard gadget for level, track marking, etc.. All of which are very nicely available on Hi-MD . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercury_in_flames Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 The iPod as recorder is vaporware. Apparently previous iPods also had this capability, but Apple didn't enable it--you needed Linux to use it as a recorder. Whether or not the capability is there on the new iPods, you are still going to need some kind of outboard box--preamp, battery box--because it's Line-in, not mic-in, and some other kind of outboard gadget for level, track marking, etc.. All of which are very nicely available on Hi-MD .classic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 classic Previous iPods only had mono recording which is why there hasn't been many add ons using it. With the new iPod its 44hz joint stereo so its a lot more useful. However its true the devil is in the detail when you are recording. You actually need all the features like setting the levels and track marking. Not that MD is perfect, but its the best of a bad lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekdroid Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Looking to buy a recorder for live recording and am very interested in a HiMD recorder mainly for its PCM (uncompressed) recording ability. Already have a batt box/bass rolloff and some cardoid mics from SP.What other HDD devices are capable of uncompressed/WAV/PCM recording and how do they compare to HiMD?Does it have to be HD?Great info on these forums is helping my decision - thanks!Hi-MD is likely the best for the money. But is not without its faults. Mostly preventable, but I digress. Of course I'm just waiting for something like Sony's PCM-D1 to reach semi-affordability. It's due in December:http://aes.harmony-central.com/119AES/Cont.../PR/PCM-D1.htmlThis is what I'm talkin' bout. Except - say - 1500 dollars cheaper Now excuse me while I wipe the drool from the keyboard.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 (edited) But hey, even with the PCM-D1, what's with the fixed-mounted mics? How am I supposed to use that at a standing-room concert? Give me the recording functions of the PCM-D1 (at least as touted) in a smaller box, and let me use my own mics, thanks. Edited October 31, 2005 by A440 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmaxwell1 Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Whats your maximum budget, mrmaxwell? Welcome to the forums, as well.Well now that minidisc.com.au are selling off the gen 1 HiMD units I'm deciding between the NH1 and the NH900....I love the sleek NH1 for design alone but the longer battery life on the NH900 and ability to attach AA rechargables is making the choice a little harder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozpeter Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 More or less on topic - I've just added an NH1 to my NH900 (thanks, Sefu!!) and took it to the park with me yesterday together with the free Tbar mic (with extension lead to avoid machine motor noise). Hearing a group of "bell birds" peeping to each other I quickly set it up and banged it into Hi-SP record without making any settings - though I did wrap my hankerchief round the mic a few times to deal with a little wind noise. Back home I ran the result through Audition's frequency analyser and was astounded to see very clear harmonics of the birds' calls extending above 17kHz. The conversation of a couple walking along the path about 100 feet away was also clearly audible above the noise floor.When I can find an alternative piece of miniature hardware which will reliably turn in that kind of performance (for $230AU!!) I'll be equally impressed. But I think I'll be waiting a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekdroid Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 But hey, even with the PCM-D1, what's with the fixed-mounted mics? How am I supposed to use that at a standing-room concert? Give me the recording functions of the PCM-D1 (at least as touted) in a smaller box, and let me use my own mics, thanks.yeh, and CF or SD instead of Memory Stick would be nice, too Apparently, it lets you attach your own mics. Just an example of something I'd like to see get more affordable. I'd take a smaller, less-featured model anyday, but it's a good example of where I'd like to see the investment going. Good, solid, operating noise-free solid-state recorders with killer capabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmilovan Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 (edited) This cost around 500 $ I think, and, on papers it's a killer:http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Micr...k2496-main.htmlSomeone know how it performs? Edited November 21, 2005 by mmilovan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Reviews mixed so far. Some very positive, some complaints. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MicroTrack/reviews/http://leblog.exuberance.com/2005/10/review_of_the_m.htmlhttp://digitalmedianet.dealtime.com/xPR-M_...icroTrack_24_96 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e1ghtyf1ve Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 (edited) This cost around 500 $ I think, and, on papers it's a killer:http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Micr...k2496-main.htmlSomeone know how it performs?Now there's a can of worms. Read this:PDF comparison of MD with the MicrotrackRemember that is with old-style MD, not the new Hi-MD recorders.New firmware might fix some, but not all of these problems: recorder freezing when you least expect it, level meters malfunctioning, noisy mic inputs, phantom power much less than the standard 48V (watch those mics), plastic surrounding SPDIF jacks too tight to fit many cables (get the saw), battery charging issues (malfunctioning battery indicator, non-replaceable battery).[Quick Edit: I must remember to name my sources more often. The problems I have listed are condensed from http://www.taperssection.com/ (reg. req.) a great resource for amateur and semi-pro recordists.]1GB CF cards (fast) are still priced 10x more than 1GB Hi-MD (slow).Other than these little issues, the MT2496 is great!Cheers Edited November 21, 2005 by e1ghtyf1ve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m15a Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 hope i'm making the right choice by posting in this thread rather than making a new one. anyway, i too would like to explore the alternatives. (unless that australian super deal starts shipping to the u.s. again.)anyway, seems like no one can really give a clear opinion without knowing some specifics, so i'll give my specific needs.i was thinking of getting a hi-md for recording, but haven't been able to justify the price. i'd be using it for environmental recordings. stealth to the level that i don't want people on the street/subway knowing what i'm doing, but not to the level that concert recorders need. right now, this is just experimentation for my music writing and non-musical enjoyment. so, i can live with it being a little bulky (like men's winter coat pocket bulky). i still want it to be fairly simple to record, and want pcm 44.1kHz/16-bit or better quality. *however*, i've just started to get annoyed with my 5 gb limitation on my mp3 player *and* my gf has been bugging me to help her obtain an mp3 player. (my 5 gb has no acceptable recording capabilities, btw.) so i'm thinking about getting a 20+ gb player for myself. and it'd be nice if it has recording potential, too. for $170, i could get the Creative Zen Touch 20 GB MP3 Player. i'm willing to go higher for recording capabilities, but not over $300 unless i end up with really nice features for both recording and portable listening. (that's not including mics, but including preamp if required.)are there any possibilities? am i right in thinking that there's nothing available that doesn't require an external preamp for what i want? the iriver ihp-20 was recommended, but i can't find it available new from anywhere reputable. i'd prefer to avoid the ebay risks. i'd really only consider getting a used from something like meeting up with someone i know from a forum or maybe craigslist so i can test out the model. so, those are my needs. anyone have any suggestions? or should i just convince my gf that she wants a hi-md and then borrow it when i want to record?thanks a bunch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e1ghtyf1ve Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 hope i'm making the right choice by posting in this thread rather than making a new one. anyway, i too would like to explore the alternatives. (unless that australian super deal starts shipping to the u.s. again.)anyway, seems like no one can really give a clear opinion without knowing some specifics, so i'll give my specific needs.i was thinking of getting a hi-md for recording, but haven't been able to justify the price. i'd be using it for environmental recordings. stealth to the level that i don't want people on the street/subway knowing what i'm doing, but not to the level that concert recorders need. right now, this is just experimentation for my music writing and non-musical enjoyment. so, i can live with it being a little bulky (like men's winter coat pocket bulky). i still want it to be fairly simple to record, and want pcm 44.1kHz/16-bit or better quality. *however*, i've just started to get annoyed with my 5 gb limitation on my mp3 player *and* my gf has been bugging me to help her obtain an mp3 player. (my 5 gb has no acceptable recording capabilities, btw.) so i'm thinking about getting a 20+ gb player for myself. and it'd be nice if it has recording potential, too. for $170, i could get the Creative Zen Touch 20 GB MP3 Player. i'm willing to go higher for recording capabilities, but not over $300 unless i end up with really nice features for both recording and portable listening. (that's not including mics, but including preamp if required.)are there any possibilities? am i right in thinking that there's nothing available that doesn't require an external preamp for what i want? the iriver ihp-20 was recommended, but i can't find it available new from anywhere reputable. i'd prefer to avoid the ebay risks. i'd really only consider getting a used from something like meeting up with someone i know from a forum or maybe craigslist so i can test out the model. so, those are my needs. anyone have any suggestions? or should i just convince my gf that she wants a hi-md and then borrow it when i want to record?thanks a bunch!I've been in a similar situation. I've looked far and wide. Hi-MD was the only solution I could come up with, and it's the only reason I came back to MD. I currently own 24-bit HD recorders, and imagine my surprise that the little RH(9)10 can almost keep up with them using my M-Audio DMP3 preamp to line-in. This wasn't always possible, as I had to get the "feel" of the input levels first. Heck, even using the built-in mic preamps gives unexpectedly good results. It's all about microphones, their placement, and the adjustments you make.Many, if not most, of the local radio stations switched to MD from DAT 2 or 3 years ago. They couldn't be all wrong.Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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