BestBuy ignores Hi-MD

[big_raji]

Whee. I have two questions, troll:

1. If you hate MD, why are you here?

2. Congratulations on your iRiver. I wonder why it is no longer being sold? Hmm...

Now, now. That iRiver has some impressive specs. I'm sure if Sony had released an identical device, all the Sony fanboys here would be saying "Hey! Ditch your MD! This Sony device is amazing!" but because it's an iRiver, you're crying "troll!"

[e1ghtyf1ve]

Now, now. That iRiver has some impressive specs. I'm sure if Sony had released an identical device, all the Sony fanboys here would be saying "Hey! Ditch your MD! This Sony device is amazing!" but because it's an iRiver, you're crying "troll!"

You'll notice that I edited my response. But what is an obvious MD hater doing here? Trolling, that's what.

As to the iRiver: Terrific specs. I would've bought it instead of Hi-MD, had I known about it. Argh! But - it's gone, as is the JB3, as is the Archos model (also runs Rockbox, forgot the model number), etc. etc. It's too late for me now. I don't want to risk buying a used hard drive recorder on eBay.

I'm not a Sony fanboy. For my recording needs on the go, without paying an arm and a leg, Hi-MD was the only economical choice in mid-2005. I remembered how great my MZ-R50 was back in 1997, so I figured I'd have another go. My main recording rig is the industry standard Apple Mac platform, Pro Tools, and BIAS Peak. When using a Windows PC, I edit using Adobe Audition (latest release), not Sonic Stage. I use iTunes every day and I love it. I also have to use Sonic Stage once in a while and it's not bad at all in my opinion.

Back to the topic: The manufacturers will not go up against a media cartel (which includes Sony) and all the lawyers to provide consumers with easy, flexible, lossless recording options. It's simply not worth the risk, even though that would have given them a competitive edge on the iPod.

Cheers

[LupinIV]

E1ghtyf1ve, where do you read that ObrenMasic is an "MD hater"?

Dude, you gotta chill out!

Ok you win! Is that what you want us to say.

Alright then, you Win.

Write a thesis on it an publish it. Then we all believe you.

For the rest, watch "Conspiracy Theory".

I guess we all are going to be doomed and the government is putting spy software in our players so they can listen to our music and tell us what cereals to buy.

Peace

[e1ghtyf1ve]

E1ghtyf1ve, where do you read that ObrenMasic is an "MD hater"?

Dude, you gotta chill out!

Dude, you gotta learn how to read: "Well I think the name says it all. Bets buy is what an MD is not.

I bought into the MD back in 1997 on the encouragement of a former friend, (havent forgiven him for suckering me into MD)."

Ok you win! Is that what you want us to say.

Alright then, you Win.

Write a thesis on it an publish it. Then we all believe you.

Win what? There is a world of information out there on this, not written by me. Try Google.

For the rest, watch "Conspiracy Theory".

I guess we all are going to be doomed and the government is putting spy software in our players so they can listen to our music and tell us what cereals to buy.

Peace

Funny thing you should mention this. Government?! We really haven't been keeping up on current events, have we? Here ya go:

CNET

But I forgot, you can't read or watch the news, you might be watching "Conspiracy Theory." Thanks for the good laugh!

Cheers

[LupinIV]

As I said, you win.

[atrain]

lupin you are a gentleman.

E1ghtyf1ve any user who's owned mds & still does is more than welcome here even if they have some other problems with the format. please keep your opinions of other users closer to your chest.

as for the iRiver H140 it's biggest issue was build quality, esp. the remote & the wierd sharp edged button. it has been replaced by the h340[?] iirc with similar specs & a colour screen.

Edited November 22, 2005 by atrain

[Sparky191]

...

You will read that DRM has everything to do with UMS - it precludes it, much to the chagrin of new owners. I notice that Samsung and Creative are going down the same path. But I leave finding the evidence to you - it should be easy. I won't do it for you this time...

My over simplifcation is from going into shops and asking why do you not stock MD/HiMD any more, and they say "because we couldn't sell them, everyone one wants MP3 players, and also the MD/HiMD are too expensive". Thats good enough for me, and I agree with them. Lots of MD users are having the same experience.

My point about the iPod is that it has DRM restrictions and it hasn't been a problem for its sales. Sony Net MD was badly recieved not because it had DRM but because it was extremely badly implemented. You and the big business may think it was their master strategy and grand designs. Personally I think it simply a matter of bad design. Personally I like MD despite Sony best attempts to wreck the format. As a player only unit, its been surpassed IMO.

Most players (in my experience) allow UMS for data. its only music that wrapped in DRM. Same with MD. On my Zen Micro the last firmware updated added UMS for music aswell. It already had UMS for data. Re: UMS for data is pretty much the same with pretty much any other MP3 players I've used. But I don't know about every player on the market. Why not just tell us the one Mp3 player (or 20) you've found that doesn't have UMS for data, instead of being awkward. Baffling

Dunno whats with the attitude, to be honest. No ones here unless they are into MD, and are interested in discussing it. Its not a pissing contest, most people just want to help each other out. For that reason I think its good not to rubbish other products just because they are not MD's. But to look at what makes them different.

....They don't want to be bothered explaining the tecnological and sound quality advantages of HI-MD to the naive consumer...

I think the crux of the matter is here. Consumers aren't automatically "naive" and HiMD isn't comprehensively superior to MP3 players. Just because MD suits your/our needs doesn't mean it best suited to everyone elses needs. In many ways MD is old technology and the sound advantages aren't there if you use a good MP3 player and the right codec, encoded properly. For example ATRAC is only getting losless now, and its not available on any portable device. ACC lossless has been there for years on the iPod. Then you've WAV, FLAC, LAME, OGG, etc.

Edited November 21, 2005 by Sparky191

[ObrenMasic]

OK folks. I was wenting my frustrations with Sony and the limitations they impose on their users.

My apologies to "e1ghtyf1ve" and others who feel hurt.

For the record:

I am not an MD-hater. On the contrary, if youd read my "Ode to the minidisc" over at MisticRiver http://misticriver.net/showthread.php?t=31193&page=2 you will see that I lamentt the failure of the MD to make a hit since it showed such great promise in the beginning.

I agree completely with LupinIV and others who have pointed out that Sony is killing the MD with the way Sony is marketting it.

That I use MDs and apreciate its strengths shouldnt blind me, or anyone else, to the MDs weaknesses and one ought to be able to admitt that the MD is NOT a BESTBuy. That simple.

Also its not only with MDs that Sony behaves badly: I just bought an PSP and enjoy being able to use the various hacks (noo! NOT pirated stuff) developed by talented merry users and which Sony does its best to sabotage with the newer versions of the PSP firmware, the cause of my latest frustration (and previous post) with Sony.

When it comes to music players, I am a multiformat person. The only format that I have abandoned is the cassete tape, for obvious reasons. Though I used walkmans of all makes and models for nearly 20 years.

I now own/use:

- Panasonic Portable CD-player for CDs

- RioVolt 250 portable audio-CD & mp3-cd player

- iRiver H140 DAP

- Sony MZ G750 LPMD-player

- Sony MZ-NH600D HiMD-player

They all have their uses and also I've invested to much in them to abandon them anytime soon.

Given my investment and comittment into the MD format I feel I have the right to voice valid critisism of MD without being accused of being a troll.

As to why the iRiver H140 is no longer made, its simple, after a while new models replace older models.

After the H1xx's came the H3xx's which also feature a colour screen and On-the-go funtionality.

They are still being offered in shops in europe.

The only problems with these models is their price: the H140 and its follow up the H340 are quite expensive. In addition the competition from the iPod must be squeezing them so iRiver have gone to make simpler and cheaper models. Though the Philips HDD6330 seems to be promising.

Finally its my belief that if Sony would go out of their way to meet the desires of their users the way they now go out of their way to lock-in and DRM-penalize the users they would actually make more money than they do now, as a lot of people who opt out of the Sony-DRM nightmare would be buying Sony instead and that would offset any losses due to copying.

The Sony corporations current woes is due to the consumers having voted with their wallets.

Edited November 22, 2005 by ObrenMasic

[Sparky191]

Its always been an issue with River that they don't fix firmware issues and change features for no good reason, even between the same product in different regions. Once bitten twice shy. So many people who owned the H1xx series didn't upgrade to the H3xx series, in fact it caused a scramble for the last of the H1xx units. That had to hurt. More competition now from all sides too.

[ObrenMasic]

Its always been an issue with River that they don't fix firmware issues and change features for no good reason, ...

... Once bitten twice shy. So many people who owned the H1xx series didn't upgrade to the H3xx series, in fact it caused a scramble for the last of the H1xx units. ...

That is absolutely true. The latest firmware of the european version of the H140 series they removed the WAV recording capability for LineIn, supporting only mp3-recording, so I found myself "upgrading" to the firmware version before it.

The reason for me not upgrading to the H3xx series is because theres no reason to. The H140 can store as much as the H340, I dont need a colour screen nor the USB on-the-go feature and I appreciate the OPTICAL input/output features (missing on the H3xx's) on my H140 all the more.

Actually the H1xx's as still for sale in europe. So are the H3xx's too.

[rei-gouki]

From the sounds of the H1xx and H3xx, there're advantages to both. i could liken the difference to be similar to the 1st Gen and 2nd Gen HiMD where recording in legacy formats were removed from the line-in and mic. Such differences seem to be causing some on the forum to keep their older MD units (me included).

The palming off of "grand designs" to conspiracy theorists is quite ignoring the possibilities. Whilst there is no real reason to take heed of any such observations given that they tend to be out of out of the hands of the people at our level, there's equally no reason to consider opinions of such views to be quack. They have been conceived and are workable. They also aren't the only possibilities. Usually, the answer is far simpler then any speculation would have it, but "usually" is not 100%.

Might I ask Sparky191 for information about the iPod DRM and how it's... invisible? to the user? I do still stand by my statement that DRM is visibly a Sony thing as mp3 and wavs don't store DRM info, thus making the choice to not allow their players to play mp3s until recently appear very much so that DRM can be applied.

The quality of the MD recordings does support the prices Sony pins on the recorders, but that is quickly becoming another thing of the past. The best thing perhaps would be to just ditch DRM, charge a little extra, and have the extra cover their perceived losses in the music branch... though perhaps they reach that conclusion already given the allowance to disable DRM marking in SS 3.3? All this speculation really doesn't mean much, though unless there's something to compare it to such as iPod and other portables...

[Sparky191]

...Might I ask Sparky191 for information about the iPod DRM and how it's... invisible? to the user? I do still stand by my statement that DRM is visibly a Sony thing as mp3 and wavs don't store DRM info, thus making the choice to not allow their players to play mp3s until recently appear very much so that DRM can be applied....

My understanding of it, is that the iPod DRM is applied in the ACC files that you download from the iTunes store. Files you add yourself are not themselves not subject to DRM. However DRM is applied in effect to everything in the iTunes/iPod because its designed so you can't sync the iPod to different libraries, with other PC's and/or other users. To a user who just downloads their own music it doesn't really effect you. Obviously there are ways around this, but out of the box to "normal" user thats how it is.

However until recently SS applied it to all your tracks and you had a limited number of times you could tracks on your MD. You also couldn't upload your recordings, and then they changed it so you could only do it once. The latest version have obviously changed all this. But it was so awkward and bug infested at the time, that many user lost patience with it.

On many forums if you talk about MD, someone almost always posts who experienced the woes of NetMD, and rants about how bad MD and SS is. That has to put people off. No matter how good HiMD is now it will always be associated with NetMD and earlier versions of SS.

It doesn't matter if DRM is in the file format or not. If the only way to get the music on the player (iTunes/SS) is DRM bound itself. If its done well like the iPod, users don't mind. If its done badly, SS, then you lose customers.

However (this is an important difference) doing it this way allows the use of a tagged Database on the player and the computer which adds a bunch of functionality. Playlists, etc. On the players that don't do it this way, and are pure UMS devices, using folders and files for navigation, like iRiver and Cowon, their tagged Database system are noticebly inferior, if they even exist.

Since the iPod is 85% of the MP3 market, you can infer that DRM and lack of UMS for music isn't holding it back. Apple needs DRM to get the content which is another issue again.

[lamewing]

My 2 cents..

I love the hardware that Sony makes....but they have been cutting corners on some of their current items. Still, the pocket vaio and the (?) HMP-A1 were gorgeous machines. I still don't understand why they left the idea of removeable batteries in the HD5 for an internal one in the new shiny, fingerprint attracting models..sigh

Anywho... in regards to the iPods DRM.

1. The AAC files do have some type of DRM built into the file, I believe.

2. The mp3s don't have any such thing. The files are just copied to the iPod and placed in multiple folders that the database tracks. On a windows machine anyone can just change the view settings to see hidden folders and can access the files. Unfortunetly, they are scattered all over the place.

This seems to be a weak DRM used soley to placate the RIAA, etc. Sony on the other hand places such a draconian restriction on the SStage files that if you copy the files to another HD and then reformat and reinstall Windows you are pretty much screwed as SStage won't recognize the old files.

If I am wrong regarding SS, please let me know, as I had to reimport MANY CD's due to this.

[e1ghtyf1ve]

My posts were exclusively revolving around the mic/line recording functions, and that's all. As players only, it's patently obvious MD/Hi-MD can't compete with the other formats. I didn't realize I had to spell it out, but there it is.

I'll try to make it simple:

The new iRivers and iPods etc. have these great color screens and other new "features," but iRiver and others have clearly reduced or gotten rid of the recording functions for their newest models. Creative's 4-bit format is just barely good enough for voice notes, so I can't count that. This is my point, folks: It seems to me that recording options are getting less and less available. The few (one, actually) options are horrendously crippled. This is what's frustrating me, nothing else. I posted my thoughts on why the manufacturers are doing what they are. Others here have different theories. Best Buy is just following the trend, I think we all agree on this.

Question: Can someone give me any alternatives to Hi-MD pocket recording with similar budget limits? A year or two ago, this would have been easy to answer. But now?

ObrenMasic, I never take posts personally, so no apologies are necessary. I was just curious about your post which seemed to say that you got suckered into MD by a friend who you later dumped. I was wondering why you didn't dump these forums as well... Thanks for the clarification. You are of course not a troll, I was referring to a part of your post only.

Sparky191, I'm puzzled as to why you say MD is old technology. Could you clarify this? I'm thinking about these facts:

Hard Drives: IBM, 1955

Flash Memory: Toshiba, 1984

Magneto-optical: NeXT, 1987 (Steve Jobs! ), Sony MD

Magneto-optical DWDD: Sony, 2004 (this is amazing, bleeding edge tech by any standards), Hi-MD

Sure, players should and can decode AAC, Ogg, etc. But can they record in this format? Some consumers love recording - look at all the cassette recorders sold (ugh).

My iRiver iFP-899 records at 160kbps MP3 stereo from mic-in to FAT formatted flash, and 320kbps MP3 with the crippled non-UMS firmware. The T30 is a major step backward in my opinion: no stereo mic-in, limited low quality line-in recording, and here in the US at least no UMS option, only MTP. No radio either! Same price as the iFP-899. Other manufacturers are following the trend. People will buy tons of these, because there's no other option, and that's that.

Again, thanks for a great debate!

Cheers

Edited November 22, 2005 by e1ghtyf1ve

[Human]

Very interesting debate , very informative , ...and now I'm depressed - and now I'm going to look for an old 8-track player :)

Only if I can find 8-track player /recorder with line "in" and line "out" and a back pack to carry the unit I will be set

Maybe they can make Hi-8 track model

Thanks guys for interesting points of views.

[Sparky191]

MD technology has been around for well over a decade and HiMD exploits the physical characteristics of heating the the medium with a laser to squeeze more data on a disk. Up to 2GB is theoritically possible. Its not really "amazing, bleeding edge" though. It all based on existing technologies. Sony kept it at 1GB to keep it backward compatible with MD.

Put into perspective with flash drives of 4GB and hard disk technology now achieving 1/8" drives at 60GB its simply not enough capacity to compete as a "player" in the market. Slow transfer speeds are also a significant disadvantage, as is the software. Theres no reason why they can't put all the MD recording functionality into a Hard disk or flash based device.

MD had a head start of 9 years on the iPod and the market simply didn't go for it. Too expensive, too restrictive. Sony needed to flood the market with a cheap MD and make the media widely available. Instead it choose to profiteer. The market turned its back on it.

There is nothing (currently) to match MD for recording. Thats why it still lives. However its a tiny section, of the portable music market. But theres no point in keeping harping on about recording. Everyone knows MD is great at recording. But the reason its not in Best buy is because 1) few people want to do that. 2) there are better music players.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Sparky191

[Human]

Sparky191

but in Your opinion is there a unit ( other then MD or Hi-MD technology ) that has line "in" to record from any source [optical or analogue] with out the need to ever use a computer to do recording or ...editing, and I don't care about being able to put truck /artist /CD name or song title, etc, - just like to have them available by recording form my CD player...or if I record radio talk show from radio to be able to edit out the radio commercials or to remove [or move around] some of the songs recorded from a CD player...

...and line"out" to play via regular stereo speakers with sound quality simmilar to Sonys LP2 or Hi-SP ?

The one of attractions for me with MD is removable media.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Human

[Sparky191]

AFAIK. No. AFAIK (and I'm a bit hazy on the details) iRivers H120/140/320/340 come close, but of all your requirements they lack the editing features, or ease of recording. They do record to WAV or MP3 and have analog line in/out and in the case of the H100's Optical line in/out. Most HiMD don't even have that. SQ of HiSP/HiLP isn't too demanding. I think more critical tastes would have problems with the SQ of the iRiver recordings and the lack of level monitoring.

I'm not a technophobic. So I don't really understand why people have an adversion to computers. Its a tool to me like a hammer or saw in my shed.

That said I choose to use a HiMD to record my cassettes rather than a computer. But thats because its difficult to move my HiFi and computer together. I also think HiMD does a decent job of putting in track marks automatically. The transfer times are a PITA though.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Sparky191

[Human]

AFAIK. No. AFAIK (and I'm a bit hazy on the details) iRivers H120/140/320/340 come close, but of all your requirements they lack the editing features, or ease of recording. They do record to WAV or MP3 and have analog line in/out and in the case of the H100's Optical line in/out. Most HiMD don't even have that. SQ of HiSP/HiLP isn't too demanding. I think more critical tastes would have problems with the SQ of the iRiver recordings and the lack of level monitoring.

I'm not a technophobic. So I don't really understand why people have an adversion to computers. Its a tool to me like a hammer or saw in my shed.

That said I choose to use a HiMD to record my cassettes rather than a computer. But thats because its difficult to move my HiFi and computer together. I also think HiMD does a decent job of putting in track marks automatically. The transfer times are a PITA though.

Thanks Sparky191

As to "adversion to computers" - i don't have it as in theory, (I actually love it) - but I had few big problems with crashes and I'm not very computer knowledgeable, so it cost me a lot of money (and time) to fix it - so from now on I just use it only for e-mails and controlled web surfing.

If i was to eliminate the need of editing of the radio talk shows on the unit ( and just transfer that radio program to my Sony MDS-JE 470 MD deck to do editing ) , do You think any of the iRiver models have line in and out , and come close in sound quality to LP2 or to Hi-SP in recording from line "in" and playing music from line "out" ?

[Human]

Sparky191, I think You answer that question [in my post # 59] in Your post # 58 for me, Thank You.

Looks that is almost impossible to find NEW unopened NH900 - they have it in Australia but not shipping to Canada.

I might go for the RH10 in that case, unless someone here can point me out to seller of NH900 in USA or Canada.

[rei-gouki]

My understanding of it, is that the iPod DRM is applied in the ACC files that you download from the iTunes store. Files you add yourself are not themselves not subject to DRM. However DRM is applied in effect to everything in the iTunes/iPod because its designed so you can't sync the iPod to different libraries, with other PC's and/or other users. To a user who just downloads their own music it doesn't really effect you. Obviously there are ways around this, but out of the box to "normal" user thats how it is.

However until recently SS applied it to all your tracks and you had a limited number of times you could tracks on your MD. You also couldn't upload your recordings, and then they changed it so you could only do it once. The latest version have obviously changed all this. But it was so awkward and bug infested at the time, that many user lost patience with it.

On many forums if you talk about MD, someone almost always posts who experienced the woes of NetMD, and rants about how bad MD and SS is. That has to put people off. No matter how good HiMD is now it will always be associated with NetMD and earlier versions of SS.

Ah. Thanks. I did not know that. I've never used iTunes... though I did accidently install it one time when I was trying to get Quicktime on an XP machine ^^;;;

I'm not completely sure about the syncing aspect. I had a friend access their iPod with iTunes on a different computer to that which they normally used and didn't really find a problem getting tracks on to it. Of course, the iTunes on the second computer wasn't already setup for another iPod, which may be the key. But if it is, I would say this is one of the advantages of it - no problem accessing files you downloaded prior to your computer crashing leading to a reformat or something. I didn't upload anything at the time, though, so I can't say if DRM would have popped up then. I should probably point out that the files in question were mp3s so there would not have been DRM attached.

It doesn't matter if DRM is in the file format or not. If the only way to get the music on the player (iTunes/SS) is DRM bound itself. If its done well like the iPod, users don't mind. If its done badly, SS, then you lose customers.

However (this is an important difference) doing it this way allows the use of a tagged Database on the player and the computer which adds a bunch of functionality. Playlists, etc. On the players that don't do it this way, and are pure UMS devices, using folders and files for navigation, like iRiver and Cowon, their tagged Database system are noticebly inferior, if they even exist.

Effectively, from that, and from numerous other sources, DRM should not in any way stop the average user from doing something any normal person should expect something like a portable recording device to be able to do.

The utilisation of a database to store information about a file, I agree, is very useful. It effectively standardises any file to a set of attributes a user can enter (the functionality you speak of). The only thing is, as mentioned by lamewing, is that if the files are still accessible via UMS, that it's leaving the back door open. I, for one, don't mind. I find it important to have such things as a backup in the event things go to pear shaped.

Since the iPod is 85% of the MP3 market, you can infer that DRM and lack of UMS for music isn't holding it back. Apple needs DRM to get the content which is another issue again.

DRM attached to a file purchased through iTunes is perfectly understandable. It's like registering a shareware program. You would like some sort of stamp on it that it was yours and that you paid good money for it. I suppose it also gives an excuse not to share, but some things you care so much about, you want to share.

I love the hardware that Sony makes....but they have been cutting corners on some of their current items. Still, the pocket vaio and the (?) HMP-A1 were gorgeous machines. I still don't understand why they left the idea of removeable batteries in the HD5 for an internal one in the new shiny, fingerprint attracting models..sigh

I do agree that Sony seems to have hired monkeys to do their design work of late. The RM-MC35EL I got with my NH900, though it's spiffy, does look a step down in quality when I compare it to the RC-MC10L I got with my N707. The choice to have a single line display on NH1's main unit, removal of the external AA ability, and some functions allowed only via remote on the NH1 is also something that makes anyone who cares about the MD pause and wonder what the heck is going on in the design department.

2. The mp3s don't have any such thing. The files are just copied to the iPod and placed in multiple folders that the database tracks. On a windows machine anyone can just change the view settings to see hidden folders and can access the files. Unfortunetly, they are scattered all over the place.

This seems to be a weak DRM used soley to placate the RIAA, etc. Sony on the other hand places such a draconian restriction on the SStage files that if you copy the files to another HD and then reformat and reinstall Windows you are pretty much screwed as SStage won't recognize the old files.

If you used the backup function that comes with SS, you can restore the db to some extent, however, it seems to need to connect to the internet to verify licenses or something. The annoying thing about this is that it makes a copy of everything in the "My Library" section which take a lot of space. It perhaps would have been better to just backup the database like some playlist or compilation.

MD technology has been around for well over a decade and HiMD exploits the physical characteristics of heating the the medium with a laser to squeeze more data on a disk. Up to 2GB is theoritically possible. Its not really "amazing, bleeding edge" though. It all based on existing technologies. Sony kept it at 1GB to keep it backward compatible with MD.

This is a drawback of removable media - the legacy of media that came before it. HDD and flash move with the times just because it's all in there. When you upgrade, you don't risk getting a pile of storage media you can no insert into your new device. But to look at how old MD vs HDD is by comparing how old the physics practiced is is just phallus brandishing, here.

MD had a head start of 9 years on the iPod and the market simply didn't go for it. Too expensive, too restrictive. Sony needed to flood the market with a cheap MD and make the media widely available. Instead it choose to profiteer. The market turned its back on it.

I don't know about other countries, but a few years ago, Sony tried to flog "cheap" MD recorders in Australia. Ran on 1 AA. No remote. No charging ability. Full plastic case. Effectively an MD version of a cheap cassette walkman. The problem was that it was about 30% cheaper and still was 100-200% more than the cheap cassette walkman. From what I've heard, the idea went like a lead balloon. A friend interested in delving into the world of MD asked about them at which point everyone I know who owned one told her that though they were a good intro model, it was oer priced and that she may as well fork over the extra bucks for what would be considered the "normal" range of MDs. Well, she went and got the cheap MD anyway and was looking to flog it to upgrade 2 weeks later. That the upgrade was to a better MD was a good thing, but it was so easy to see it go the other way and become disenchanted with the media just because they were that bad for the price that was charge (comparatively speaking).

There is nothing (currently) to match MD for recording. Thats why it still lives. However its a tiny section, of the portable music market. But theres no point in keeping harping on about recording. Everyone knows MD is great at recording. But the reason its not in Best buy is because 1) few people want to do that. 2) there are better music players.

The fact Sony has not changed the focus of their advertising *cough* is something of a concern. Competing directly against the iPod and their HDD ilk will definitely bury the MD. Microcassettes and their recorders are still around. I don't see why Sony isn't taking a crack at this area of the market given the recorder size is comparable.

Sparky191

but in Your opinion is there a unit ( other then MD or Hi-MD technology ) that has line "in" to record from any source [optical or analogue] with out the need to ever use a computer to do recording or ...editing, and I don't care about being able to put truck /artist /CD name or song title, etc, - just like to have them available by recording form my CD player...or if I record radio talk show from radio to be able to edit out the radio commercials or to remove [or move around] some of the songs recorded from a CD player...

...and line"out" to play via regular stereo speakers with sound quality simmilar to Sonys LP2 or Hi-SP ?

The one of attractions for me with MD is removable media.

Given the screens on the current players, I'd love to see one come with a wave editor, even if it just cuts tracks up to remove ads like the MD does.

The removable media does mean that you lose less if you lose the unit - just the MD in the player or a couple more if it was in a bag with an MD pouch. The bad thing I see about it, as it now allows file stoarge, is that it puts a limit on the size of a single file. If you had to move something larger than 963MB, you're buggered, unless you split the file. I personally have not had to except for the once or twice. However, my sister is in an area where she will encounter 1GB+ files regularly making the portable HDD to be a lot better. That said, the singular cartridge should probably not be below 5GB, currently.

But as for "removability", HDD players could make the same claims of "unlimited" as well if you consider the computer it d/ls from to have no limit to it's ability to expand the size of its HDDs. Just takes a bit more mind to do so than buying a few MDs off the shelf at a music store and slotting it into your recorder.

On a side note, apparently at one stage, IBM found the upper limit of HDD tech was 2GB before a way was found to seal the cylinder. DVDs hold 4.3GB in data, and Bluray discs are 27GB max. Imagine they never got around the 2GB HDD problem. We'd have the OS on the HDD and everything else would be on O/MO and other (like iomega's Zip) media

[atrain]

for me the greatest step forward for sonicstage in versions 3.2 & 3.3 are the drm removal for imported oma & omg files. without the drm they can be dragged & dropped like any other files including to other hard drives & sonicstage installations. of course sonicstage is still needed to transfer but the change opens up om* far more than anything previously.

[ObrenMasic]

OK folks. We have now decided that the MD is no longer a BestBuy

So the question that beckons here at MiniDisc is: what would it take to make the MD a best buy?

I happen to believe that the MD could make a comeback if Sony would get it right and made a genuine effort to push it.

The necessary improvements:

• get rid of SonicStage
• introduce a better replacement for SS, perhaps something like RedChairSoftware's Notmad/Anapod/Irivium software.
• playing any recognizable format drag'n'drop-ed to HiMD
• support many more formats, particularly the open formats that wont cost Sony any license fees to implement such as FLAC & OGG
• design a very sexy looking line of portables
• retain LineIn/MicIn
• use removable batteries
• reduce the media cost to 1/3 or less of the current price
• develop larger capacity media

A nice feature would be if Sony would lift the restrictions on Line/Mic recordings made on preHiMD media and allow uppload off such recordings.

[atrain]

i'm going to close this thread as it's run it's course. there is a perfectly good thread on the topic of what you'd like to see in a third generation.

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=12942

Edited November 23, 2005 by atrain