dural Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 (Thanks for looking)I've tried all sorts of tricks (removing SCMS info etc..) to try to upload old SP tracks(292kbps) via SonicStage 3.4, in order to transfer them to another disc - without them being reprocessed by ATRAC. (I can currently transfer a track using studio equipment, digitally to CD and then back to MD, but this obviously reprocesses it)Is the ONLY way to do this (i.e. move) old MD tracks by using the MDS-W1 dual MD drive deck?If anyone has a clever way of doing this (or wants to loan/sell me their MDS-W1 deck) please let me know. Or is the answer just "No"?!!!??Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielbb90 Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 (edited) Hi-MD render does a real-time upload using a line-in cable and netMD player.Besides that I have no idea!?http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?s=&sh...indpost&p=87843 Edited March 17, 2006 by danielbb90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xatax Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Not sure what you want to do... you want to upload SP to SS? Please explain us what exactly would you want to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dural Posted March 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Basically, I need a method of transferring an old SP track (pre NetMD) to another disc. Doesn't have to COPY it, just need to MOVE it without further ATRAC encoding.Any ideas?Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1kyle Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) (Thanks for looking)I've tried all sorts of tricks (removing SCMS info etc..) to try to upload old SP tracks(292kbps) via SonicStage 3.4, in order to transfer them to another disc - without them being reprocessed by ATRAC. (I can currently transfer a track using studio equipment, digitally to CD and then back to MD, but this obviously reprocesses it)Is the ONLY way to do this (i.e. move) old MD tracks by using the MDS-W1 dual MD drive deck?If anyone has a clever way of doing this (or wants to loan/sell me their MDS-W1 deck) please let me know. Or is the answer just "No"?!!!??CheersJust play the disk on a unit with OPTICAL OUT such as JB980 connected to OPTICAL IN on a portable unit. OK It's real time. Seems easy enough to me (or have I missed something).If you've got studio equipment you'll surely have at least one piece of equipment with an optical out, whilst all MD devices I've ever seen have an Optical IN.If the SCMS won't let you do this (most studio equipment AFAIK bypasses or ignores SCMS) then the optical out will still play into a computer with a decent soundcard which has an optical IN and Optical OUT.So connect the decks optical OUT to the Optical IN on the computer, set the computer to either PLAY or RECORD depending on what software you've got and plug the optical OUT of the sound card to the Optical IN on a MD portable recorder.(For recording in SP mode directly the NH1 (Hi-MD) and all earlier models will work. The RH10 will only record using SS as "Fake SP").For Editing track names afterwards just use SS in Cut and Paste mode. You can edit track and disk names with SS even on old SP recorded discs and you can even add Group information if you want.Cheers-K Edited March 20, 2006 by 1kyle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dural Posted March 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Thanks 1kyle for taking the time to reply, but your method still effectively 'uncompresses the file', then 're-compresses' it at the other end. This is ideally what I need to avoid (fussy, I know!!!).Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1kyle Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 If you play an MD the optical OUT from a deck is a DIGITAL copy which is an EXACT (AUDIO) copy of the source. (OK I now text / tags are not usually copied but the SOUND is an exact digital copy).I'm not sure what happens when using a computer sound card with optical in / out. There's some computer people on this board who are much better qualified than me to answer this.However from a deck there's NO loss or extra conversions when using the Optical OUT / IN.That's why SONY etc go paranoid with DRM, SCMS etc since copying this way doesn't introduce generational loss.Computers AFAIK are a different m,atter however.Cheers-K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dural Posted March 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 I appreciate your help, but this is still adding another 'generation' of compression. Although the audio will be digital, it is effectively doing the following:- PLAY: Convert ATRAC file into WAV/PCM type audio- RECORD: Convert WAV/PCM back into ATRACThere WILL be further loss, although negligable with something as superior as ATRAC, but this will definately add another compression step into the file.The method you suggest is NOT transferring raw ATRAC data from 1 disc to another.Anyone else care to comment?Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Low Volta Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 yes I'd like to comment...as you already know: at this moment in time, what you want just isn't possible (at least not with non-pro equipment...don't know about the real pro-stuff). So perhaps it might be time to just accept it and live with it while hoping that maybe Sony might change its tune someday...If you do not reconvert the digitally recorded track to SP again but keep the wav, 1kyle's method only completes the first lossy generation induced by the original conversion to SP. The wav = exactly the same (not bit by bit but in audio terms exactly the same audio info) as the SP version... (if you use TotalRecorder which captures the digital stream before it reaches you soundcard at least). You could always nag and say that it isn't bitperfect and therefore not the same as the original, but then you need to realize that you have only ever heard the SP track after it has been 'decompressed' into PCM/wav for playback by the MD-player... this one generation of loss will always have been completed before you can hear it... whether you save it as wav at that point or simply listen to it, it has passed through the lossy analogue/wav->sp->wav/analogue chain. Still by reconverting the wav to SP again you will induce a second lossy generation so you are right about that...but then again, you should really use the wav to create a decent non-lossy backup for storage (on DVD-RAM or another good medium) as any lossy format (like SP) just isn't good for archiving!So in short (haha too late ) you recorded it in a lossy format (SP) so you will never ever get more audio info than what has been stored in that lossy format. By digitally saving it in wav (with TR), you do not lose more info...you only complete the first lossy generation. So you actually save all audio info the original has to offer. At this point you need to make a backup in a compressed or not non-lossy format as this is the best you will ever have it. But indeed, you will always lose info from now on when you reconvert this version into lossy formats.So even shorter:- yes, you can preserve all audio info from the original- no, as for now you still can't move the track to another disc in SP and avoid at least one further lossy generationsorry, but I'm afraid you'll have to live with it untill Sony decides otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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