a musician requires some serious help (please...)

[paragtds]

Hello guys,

I am parag from india. i am a musician and i require a good digital recording device which is reliable and durable. and i thought MD player would be a good option but i could not decide on which model to go for. i am a complete novice when it comes to MD players as i have never used them before. but after some searching on the net i thought that sony's MZ-RH910 would be a good buy. but now i just read about MZ-RH1 which is coming soon. so can anyone please help me out here. i dont know which one should i go for. i require it for my live recordings. so can please anyone help me out here and tell me what is the difference and which is better and why? and also will i be able to recorde in .WAV format and playback it properly. because i read somewhere that i cannot play .wav files directly. it requires some conversion which is to be done on pc before playing it on the MD player. is it possible to play it directly without converting it to any other format? and which model would do a better job? and also i see that the RH1 model has only single line oled display compared to 5 lines on RH910 model. so which is better and also will it be possible to find files easily on RH1? so can anyone please help me out here and help me make a decision and explain the pros and cons of both models and also which one should i go for. also none of the model is going to be available here in my country, india. so i have to order it from USA. i am going to ask someone who can get it for me who is going to visit US soon. so please help me out as soon as possible. thank you and your help will be really appreciated.

[bobt]

Hi Parag,

Welcome to the forums, and hope you will be happy with whatever you get. The 910 is a nice machine that would peobably serve you well. Read the review elsewhere on the RH1, this is the definate flagship of the MD fleet, very aptly taking over where the NH1 left off.

While you can't record directly in .WAV, the transition to atrac is so seemless you won't notice, and Sonicstage 3.4, will let you import anything you can reciord. If you can wait a bit and can spare the expence, get the RH1, if that doesn't matter, the 910 or RH10 with OLED are quite nice, well, there are some deals around on first generation bundles with cheap mics at reasonable prices. I have had quit good luck with line in recordings on my NH1.

Hopefully I haven't confused you too much.

Take care,

Bob

[paragtds]

Hi Parag, Welcome to the forums, and hope you will be happy with whatever you get. The 910 is a nice machine that would peobably serve you well. Read the review elsewhere on the RH1, this is the definate flagship of the MD fleet, very aptly taking over where the NH1 left off. While you can't record directly in .WAV, the transition to atrac is so seemless you won't notice, and Sonicstage 3.4, will let you import anything you can reciord. If you can wait a bit and can spare the expence, get the RH1, if that doesn't matter, the 910 or RH10 with OLED are quite nice, well, there are some deals around on first generation bundles with cheap mics at reasonable prices. I have had quit good luck with line in recordings on my NH1. Hopefully I haven't confused you too much. Take care, Bob

[A440]

Don't be confused by mention of ATRAC.

You CAN record directly in .wav on any Hi-MD unit (like the RH910) and play the files back on the unit. It is called PCM: same quality, sampling rate, etc.

What you can't do is drag-and-drop the files from minidisc to computer (or back). But you can easily upload them to a PC through Sony's software.

To transfer any recording to or from your computer you use a program called SonicStage. It uploads PCM recordings and will "convert" them to .wav, basically by renaming them. Hi-MD also has its own compressed formats that upload, Hi-SP (very good quality) and Hi-LP (best for speech, not music).

You can find a zillion complaints about SonicStage online, becuase it has gone through a lot of versions and was initially awful. But SonicStage 3.4 is currently quite stable and reliable and has had most of the old versions' bugs and restrictions removed. It's not iTunes, but it works.

You would make a recording on the MD unit, connect via USB, open SonicStage and transfer to your computer. You can set SonicStage to automatically "convert to .wav" when you upload, and the .wav files are ready to use in any program.

You can also send .wav files back to a minidisc via SonicStage; it renames them as pcm.

You probably don't need the extra expense for the RH1 unless you:

1. are using a Mac computer instead of a PC

2. have old minidisc recordings you want to upload (apparently not)

3. like the design

You could also have an American or English friend look for the 2004 models, the NH700 or NHF800 (NH700 plus a radio in the remote), which can be found new for $125 on Ebay in the U.S., 70 GBP in England. They also record in PCM, upload, etc.--same quality. Just ignore the software CD and download the newer version of SonicStage from Sony.

[paragtds]

Don't be confused by mention of ATRAC.

You CAN record directly in .wav on any Hi-MD unit (like the RH910) and play the files back on the unit. It is called PCM: same quality, sampling rate, etc.

What you can't do is drag-and-drop the files from minidisc to computer (or back). But you can easily upload them to a PC through Sony's software.

To transfer any recording to or from your computer you use a program called SonicStage. It uploads PCM recordings and will "convert" them to .wav, basically by renaming them. Hi-MD also has its own compressed formats that upload, Hi-SP (very good quality) and Hi-LP (best for speech, not music).

You can find a zillion complaints about SonicStage online, becuase it has gone through a lot of versions and was initially awful. But SonicStage 3.4 is currently quite stable and reliable and has had most of the old versions' bugs and restrictions removed. It's not iTunes, but it works.

You would make a recording on the MD unit, connect via USB, open SonicStage and transfer to your computer. You can set SonicStage to automatically "convert to .wav" when you upload, and the .wav files are ready to use in any program.

You can also send .wav files back to a minidisc via SonicStage; it renames them as pcm.

You probably don't need the extra expense for the RH1 unless you:

1. are using a Mac computer instead of a PC

2. have old minidisc recordings you want to upload (apparently not)

3. like the design

You could also have an American or English friend look for the 2004 models, the NH700 or NHF800 (NH700 plus a radio in the remote), which can be found new for $125 on Ebay in the U.S., 70 GBP in England. They also record in PCM, upload, etc.--same quality. Just ignore the software CD and download the newer version of SonicStage from Sony.

hi. thanks for ur help. ok now one more thing. what if i keep my live recordings on the MD's or Hi-MD's only. are they safe to keep there itself or i need to take back ups on CD's? because i want to keep it safe for years to come..maybe 10-20 years. so will it be safe on the minidiscs itself? actually i am a composer and i need to record my songs for my future reference. and a song which i have recorded today might be used after few years also. so i need a very reliable device.

also the RH910 and RH10 are having 5 lines display and the RH1 is having just 1. so which one would be better? will i be able to find my files from different directories easily if i buy RH1?

and also when i see the sony website, they have a bundle offer for RH910 model with a mic which is some ECM-MS907 and 5 HI-MD discs with it for $299.89 . so is it a good option or should i go for some other mic?

and one more thing, i have been told by bob on this page only that the RH1 is the flagship model of MD fleet right now...so is it the best and the one to get if i dont mind a few extra bucks? but the only thing concerns me is the one line display. rest is good.

so help me out here to make a decision. thatnks once again.

[A440]

If you can afford the RH1, you might as well get it. Sony has finally decided that minidisc is for recording, and it seems the RH1 is geared primarily for recording instead of trying to compete with Ipods and other mp3 players. So it will probably provide the best features for recording and perhaps a more durable case.

One thing the RH1 does, which seems simple but was never implemented by Sony before, is to retain your settings from your previous recording instead of defaulting back to Automatic Gain Control, useless for music. It's a small convenience--you don't have to click through six menu options--but it suggests that Sony has finally started to think about real recording conditions. It has also un-crippled the mp3 playback. Perhaps there are other recording quality improvements as well.

The discs themselves are very reliable. The question is whether minidisc players will be around to play them in a decade, and no one can say. (Remember floppy discs?) Some people are still using models made in the mid-1990's, while others are having trouble with models introduced two years ago like the NH1. I have been using my MZ-NHF800, bought in August 2004, almost daily and have had no problems with it, and it has been dropped a few times. For recordings I care about, I upload and burn to CD (though CD coatings will also degrade through the years--never use ultra-cheap ones). I find MDs are too small to label adequately, and so I might as well reuse them.

The RH1 display is actually two lines: the one line is twice as long. Apparently track titles with the RH1 are only displayed on the remote, something I'm not happy about. Look at the review, which has photos of all the displays, and see if they provide enough information for you, and decide whether you want to be regularly using the remote. Files on MD are listed as Group (like an album), and you can search by group; then there are track numbers within the group. Once you have titled everything, you could always search the disc via your computer/USB/MD hookup, with SonicStage.

You can probably find the RH910 by itself for under $200, and blank Hi-MD's are about $7 each, so I don't think the Sony offer is any great bargain.

Do you have a friend in the US? Compare RH910 offers on http://www.jr.com , http://www.bhphoto.com , and maybe search with Froogle (part of Google). The MS907 is a good mic but with limited bass response. If you're strumming an acoustic guitar and singing, it would be fine, while full-band recordings could come out tinny. Search for MS907 on these forums and you should find more information on that particular mic.

Look at http://www.soundprofessionals.com or http://www.microphonemadness.com or http://www.samash.com for other microphone options. Are you going to want small mics or large ones? A pair you can separate, for better stereo imaging, or a one-point mic you can just point at the music?

Are you recording music with a broad frequency range (20-20,000 Hz) or a narrower one (like a solo instrument or voice)? Do you want a directional (cardioid) mic to isolate the sound of the musicians, or an omnidirectional (also called binaural) pair of mics to get the full ambient sound of the performance space (which I personally prefer).

For me, the best one-size-fits-all mic is a pair of (separate) omnis with 20-20,000 Hz frequency response that can be placed wherever you want them. But your needs may be different.

The RH1 is not out yet in the U.S. or Europe, which means none of us except mdfreak has had a chance to get our hands on it. So take the next few weeks to do some mic research. Do you know other musicians who are happy with their mic setup? That would be your best guide.

[bobt]

Hi Prag,

Just to adress a couple of issues. If the setup you are using feeds into a mixing board, your best alternative is to feed the line out of the board into the line in of the MD recorder, I've done both ways, and found especially in a live setting with a lot of people around, you get a fair amount of crowd noise with your recording using mics.. Read the forum sections about recording for different suggestions of mic's etc..

No media is truly everlasting, MD's seem to last better than most, I consider CD's one of the least reliable methods of back up, if you are in a high heat/high humidity environment you may find you will lose a lot of cd's to having the reflective layer bleaching out. In 11 years here in the Cayman Islands I have probably lost 200 cd's to this, I still have thousansd of LP's and 45's in Canada, some 50 years old that still play perfect.

My advicew for data storage would be to tranfer your MD's to a good reel to reel, as well as hard drive backups, although gard drives do fail. You could burn dvd's or cd's with your music, just twice a year make a backup of the cd.

For a unit look at minidisco, minidisccanada, or minidisc australia, they have had, or still nay have some 1st generation bundles for reasonable prices, something like an MZ-NH800 or 900 will probably fit your bill quite nicely for not too mucjh money, then after getting used to the format you can decide if the RH1 would work well for you,

Good luck,

Bob

[paragtds]

If you can afford the RH1, you might as well get it. Sony has finally decided that minidisc is for recording, and it seems the RH1 is geared primarily for recording instead of trying to compete with Ipods and other mp3 players. So it will probably provide the best features for recording and perhaps a more durable case.

One thing the RH1 does, which seems simple but was never implemented by Sony before, is to retain your settings from your previous recording instead of defaulting back to Automatic Gain Control, useless for music. It's a small convenience--you don't have to click through six menu options--but it suggests that Sony has finally started to think about real recording conditions. It has also un-crippled the mp3 playback. Perhaps there are other recording quality improvements as well.

The discs themselves are very reliable. The question is whether minidisc players will be around to play them in a decade, and no one can say. (Remember floppy discs?) Some people are still using models made in the mid-1990's, while others are having trouble with models introduced two years ago like the NH1. I have been using my MZ-NHF800, bought in August 2004, almost daily and have had no problems with it, and it has been dropped a few times. For recordings I care about, I upload and burn to CD (though CD coatings will also degrade through the years--never use ultra-cheap ones). I find MDs are too small to label adequately, and so I might as well reuse them.

The RH1 display is actually two lines: the one line is twice as long. Apparently track titles with the RH1 are only displayed on the remote, something I'm not happy about. Look at the review, which has photos of all the displays, and see if they provide enough information for you, and decide whether you want to be regularly using the remote. Files on MD are listed as Group (like an album), and you can search by group; then there are track numbers within the group. Once you have titled everything, you could always search the disc via your computer/USB/MD hookup, with SonicStage.

You can probably find the RH910 by itself for under $200, and blank Hi-MD's are about $7 each, so I don't think the Sony offer is any great bargain.

Do you have a friend in the US? Compare RH910 offers on http://www.jr.com , http://www.bhphoto.com , and maybe search with Froogle (part of Google). The MS907 is a good mic but with limited bass response. If you're strumming an acoustic guitar and singing, it would be fine, while full-band recordings could come out tinny. Search for MS907 on these forums and you should find more information on that particular mic.

Look at http://www.soundprofessionals.com or http://www.microphonemadness.com or http://www.samash.com for other microphone options. Are you going to want small mics or large ones? A pair you can separate, for better stereo imaging, or a one-point mic you can just point at the music?

Are you recording music with a broad frequency range (20-20,000 Hz) or a narrower one (like a solo instrument or voice)? Do you want a directional (cardioid) mic to isolate the sound of the musicians, or an omnidirectional (also called binaural) pair of mics to get the full ambient sound of the performance space (which I personally prefer).

For me, the best one-size-fits-all mic is a pair of (separate) omnis with 20-20,000 Hz frequency response that can be placed wherever you want them. But your needs may be different.

The RH1 is not out yet in the U.S. or Europe, which means none of us except mdfreak has had a chance to get our hands on it. So take the next few weeks to do some mic research. Do you know other musicians who are happy with their mic setup? That would be your best guide.

hi,

thank you for your help. now one thing, i checked out bhphoto.com and came to know that they do ship to india. but do u think that its advisable to buy it from them? you think i will get it proper condition? because its to be shipped to india all the way from USA. and i might get it shipped by UPS. because i tried with amazon.com also but they dont ship to india. nor do sony's official website. so i thought that i will ask some friend to get it for me who will visit USA in near future. but if some website like bhphoto.com is shipping it in india in safe and proper condition than its fine. so should i go for it or ask someone to get it for me as that would be safer? thanks

[A440]

I've bought a lot of things at the BHPhoto store in New York City. They are a long-established business with a huge mail-order department, and I would think they know how to pack.

The question is whether shipping to India will add a lot to the price, whether there are customs fees to India, and whether your own UPS carriers will treat it well. Personally, I'd hope to have a friend pick it up in New York and bring it back, perhaps even try it while still in the US to make sure it's working. It takes the suspense away. But BHPhoto are highly professional all around.

Edited April 24, 2006 by A440

[enriquez]

One thing to add in case you were wondering Parag. I am also a musician and use my minidisc almost exclusively to record practices and such. I think it's important to note that, in my opinion, mindisc is pretty crippled without the use of a computer; or put diferently, the advantage of HiMD is that ability to upload and edit/rename recordings on a computer.

For example, naming recordings on the md device itself is pretty time consuming. It is much easier to connect it via USB to a computer and rename that way. As mentioned before, the settings memory on the RH1 will be very useful for those who use the device primarily for recording. I have a NH1 and need to reset my recording settings each time I record. It's not the worst thing in the world, it would just be very nice to have it remember it as the RH1 will.

[Gracehypnosis]

I should have read back through some of these postings. It seems that with the 910 and SS 3.4, I WILL be able to make voice recordings with a mic, transfer via USB cable to my PC and convert/save as WAV files. If this is true, then I will be one happy lady!

BTW, I did (what I thought was) a lot of research on mics. I ended up with the Sony 907. It is fine to use when I record onto the Minidisc player but DREADFUL for recording right onto my PC via the soundcard.

I have since tried a few cheap mics on the minidisc and frankly, they sound just as good as the 907. Mind you, the only thing I am recording, is my voice (for hypnotherapy sessions, not music or concerts.

The 907 was very expensive (CDN $169 with taxes and shipping). I may end up selling it on E-bay!

Susan

hi. thanks for ur help. ok now one more thing. what if i keep my live recordings on the MD's or Hi-MD's only. are they safe to keep there itself or i need to take back ups on CD's? because i want to keep it safe for years to come..maybe 10-20 years. so will it be safe on the minidiscs itself? actually i am a composer and i need to record my songs for my future reference. and a song which i have recorded today might be used after few years also. so i need a very reliable device.

also the RH910 and RH10 are having 5 lines display and the RH1 is having just 1. so which one would be better? will i be able to find my files from different directories easily if i buy RH1?

and also when i see the sony website, they have a bundle offer for RH910 model with a mic which is some ECM-MS907 and 5 HI-MD discs with it for $299.89 . so is it a good option or should i go for some other mic?

and one more thing, i have been told by bob on this page only that the RH1 is the flagship model of MD fleet right now...so is it the best and the one to get if i dont mind a few extra bucks? but the only thing concerns me is the one line display. rest is good.

so help me out here to make a decision. thatnks once again.

[A440]

Susan/Grace--

Getting bad recordings through your soundcard may just be a result of whatever settings you are using for recording. Look at Settings/Control Panel/Sounds and Audio Devices, and look through the various tabs to make sure, for instance, that the volume on the mic input is turned up, that you're not running anything extra through the "mixer" (like MIDI), etc.

Also look at your recording application, whether its wavpad or Audacity. It should have settings for the recording bitrate, and they might be really low. If you're recording in mp3, change them to 192 kbps or better; in .wav, you want a sampling rate of 44.1 khz (that's CD quality).

Of course, it's also possible that your soundcard is not so hot, but see if fiddling with settings helps you.

The good thing about that MS907 for voice is that you can get a true mono recording out of it, which may be better for hypnotherapy recordings if you're mixing voice with music. Take a look at its manual or instruction page, since that mic has different settings too.

[greenmachine]

Can't you get a true mono signal out of any stereo microphone if you don't mix both channels, but extract one channel only?