Why The Difference?

[deadwing]

OK, been recording with my Sony MZ-NH1 Hi MD for about a year and a half with a fair amount of success.

I recently invested in a pair of nice cardoid mics from the U.S. (I'm in the UK) to replace the mics I bit when I got the recorder. The first gig I recorded with came out amazing- best recording I've ever made- no distortion, everything clear. Second recording has come out ok, but suffers again from distortion, mainly on the bass drum. I've upped shgort (9o sec) mp3 samples here

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/barneystorm/jrny.mp3

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/barneystorm/+Live+.mp3

the first show was in a big venue (3000 seat theatre), I was on the balcony about 6 rows back dead central, the second was in a smaller venue (About 750-1000 people) and was all standing- I was about 70 feet from the stage just in front of the sound-desk dead central. Both shows I had the mics mounted on my lapels had good sound quality, the theatre show was actually louder

Now, I understand there are a lot of variables in place here, but is there anything further I can do with venues like this second one was in as I go to more shows of that size than the other?

My settings for both shows were the same-low sens mic setting, manual level, recording at only 14/30, recording via the mic input using a (UK equivilent to) the Radio Shack attenuator.

The recordings have plenty of 'room' in them as far as actual voume overloading is concerned, so I don't think it's volume overload, but what I'm aiming for is to cut out the distortion.

Anmyone got any thoughts??

[A440]

I can certainly hear the difference you're talking about.

One possibility is that the people standing in front of you made the sound getting to the mics less clear than in the theater setting. Raising the mics higher would help. But I don't know if that would account for the fuzziness on the recording.

Although you say the theater concert was louder, possibly the club had heavier bass, putting you up against the limitation of the attenuator method. Clubs seem to perversely pride themselves on how uselessly loud they can make the bass.

The preventive would be to switch to the Mic-Battery box--Line-in method, possibly with one of Greenmachine's battery boxes

http://www.geocities.com/greenmachine_audio/index.html

if you can't get one from the US like this one.

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmcbmminminc.htm

Here's why.

The attenuator lowers the signal getting to the mic preamp, preventing the preamp from overloading. That's pretty useful at most concerts.

But the attenuator also lowers the amount of current getting to the mic. And the more current goes to the mic, the more sound pressure (volume) the mic itself can handle. So using the attenuator actually makes it somewhat easier for the mic itself to overload. This doesn't matter at most concerts, since even with the attentuator, the mic can handle considerable volume. But when it does overload, the attenuator is no help.

On the other hand, a battery module gives more current to the mic, which makes it harder to overload the mic. Going Mic--BattBox--Line-in bypasses the mic preamplier, and loud music provides enough signal through the mic to allow you to use the (unamplified) Line-in jack.

Do you have the specs for your mics? What's the maximum SPL it can handle?

[deadwing]

I can certainly hear the difference you're talking about.

One possibility is that the people standing in front of you made the sound getting to the mics less clear than in the theater setting. Raising the mics higher would help. But I don't know if that would account for the fuzziness on the recording.

Although you say the theater concert was louder, possibly the club had heavier bass, putting you up against the limitation of the attenuator method. Clubs seem to perversely pride themselves on how uselessly loud they can make the bass.

The preventive would be to switch to the Mic-Battery box--Line-in method, possibly with one of Greenmachine's battery boxes

http://www.geocities.com/greenmachine_audio/index.html

if you can't get one from the US like this one.

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmcbmminminc.htm

Here's why.

The attenuator lowers the signal getting to the mic preamp, preventing the preamp from overloading. That's pretty useful at most concerts.

But the attenuator also lowers the amount of current getting to the mic. And the more current goes to the mic, the more sound pressure (volume) the mic itself can handle. So using the attenuator actually makes it somewhat easier for the mic itself to overload. This doesn't matter at most concerts, since even with the attentuator, the mic can handle considerable volume. But when it does overload, the attenuator is no help.

On the other hand, a battery module gives more current to the mic, which makes it harder to overload the mic. Going Mic--BattBox--Line-in bypasses the mic preamplier, and loud music provides enough signal through the mic to allow you to use the (unamplified) Line-in jack.

Do you have the specs for your mics? What's the maximum SPL it can handle?

Here's the link to the ebay page I got them from

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=9700517093

I was thinking the battery box maybe the way forward before I picked up these new mics, but the first recording I make with them comes out great-then I get the distortion on the next one. The attenuator does hewlp considerably- I left it out of the loop at a 'test' pub gig a while ago and the distortion- even at a setting of 10/30 was unlistenable.

I'll take a look at the battery box links-thanks-would you recommend one with bass roll off or one of the simple units?

Edited June 13, 2006 by deadwing

[soundalike]

I had the same issue as you until I bought one of GreenMachine’s battery boxes. Highly recommended it is too! I typically record through the BB to Line in at between 16/30 and 22/30, depending on the type of music and venue but never get clipping. The trick is to not set the level too low to avoid getting loads of separate tracks (but that’s another story).

The smaller venues are usually great for small acoustic shows but often have worse sound systems (and/or engineers) so that bands with proper drums and bass guitars sound less than great when you get the recording home. When I close my eyes at the gig and concentrate what’s coming through my ears I’m often be surprised at the amount of bass actually coming through. For what it’s worth I don’t bother with bass roll off since it means that certain frequencies are not recorded (I think). If you don’t like it when you get home you can mess about with the eq then, but you can’t change what you don’t capture in the first place.

Cheers

[deadwing]

Thanks for that- I went onto his site but couldn't work out which was the battery box!!

[A440]

Battery box: Speiseteil

[deadwing]

Battery box: Speiseteil

danke schon..mein deutsh ist nicht zu gut!!

[deadwing]

I had the same issue as you until I bought one of GreenMachine’s battery boxes. Highly recommended it is too! I typically record through the BB to Line in at between 16/30 and 22/30, depending on the type of music and venue but never get clipping. The trick is to not set the level too low to avoid getting loads of separate tracks (but that’s another story).

The smaller venues are usually great for small acoustic shows but often have worse sound systems (and/or engineers) so that bands with proper drums and bass guitars sound less than great when you get the recording home. When I close my eyes at the gig and concentrate what’s coming through my ears I’m often be surprised at the amount of bass actually coming through. For what it’s worth I don’t bother with bass roll off since it means that certain frequencies are not recorded (I think). If you don’t like it when you get home you can mess about with the eq then, but you can’t change what you don’t capture in the first place.

Cheers

Thanks for that- one of GreenMachines battery boxes is heading my way as I type!!

Just as a matter of interest- you say you now record via line in and levels 16 to 22/30 - what kind of music/venues are you using those settings in? I tend to go to loud rock shows, most of which are in medium/large clubs (350-1000 people).

[greenmachine]

Hi, didn't see this thread earlier, sorry. The "correct" level setting not only strongly varies from venue to venue and from show to show, but also largely depends on the sensitivity of your microphones. After some experimenting, you'll get a feeling for your equipment and can roughly estimate the setting when necessary. In the meantime, observe the meter as often as possible.

Good luck for your recordings, your overload problems should be solved soon.