e1ghtyf1ve Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Just in case you were wondering what makes the RH1 such a fine portable recorder, please meet the AK5356 20-bit Delta-Sigma ADC by AKM Semi. Not only is it ultra-low power, it incorporates ultra-low noise mic pre's. Here's a little review by analogZONE:http://www.analogzone.com/avp_0804.htmBest $5.40 I ever heard (1000 quantity) Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunster Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Just in case you were wondering what makes the RH1 such a fine portable recorder, please meet the AK5356 20-bit Delta-Sigma ADC by AKM Semi. Not only is it ultra-low power, it incorporates ultra-low noise mic pre's. Here's a little review by analogZONE:http://www.analogzone.com/avp_0804.htmBest $5.40 I ever heard (1000 quantity) CheersBloody hell! And this also dates back to 2003.Glad Sony are using excellent parts for their products.How did you find this out by the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e1ghtyf1ve Posted July 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Bloody hell! And this also dates back to 2003.Glad Sony are using excellent parts for their products.How did you find this out by the way?I read the service manual and then Googled for the part number. The 20-bit resolution complements the ATRAC DSP perfectly, in my opinion. Playing back MZ-RH1 test recordings on a 24-bit deck makes for some sublime sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avrin Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 (edited) The MZ-RH10 (and probably the MZ-RH910) also has this ADC chip. Edited July 4, 2006 by Avrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e1ghtyf1ve Posted July 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 The MZ-RH10 (and probably the MZ-RH910) also has this ADC chip.Actually, all Hi-MD portables with mic/line-in have this chip. However, it appears that with this revision at least, the inputs are not as easily overloaded. Anybody else notice this as well? Both my RH10 and RH910, when receiving line-level signals, could clip just over the -12dB mark. The RH1 doesn't appear to do that...cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avrin Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Revisions also appear to be the same. AK5356VN-L in both cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 What else is it used in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avrin Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Well, I don't know. Check the service manuals of the devices you are interested in. Or do you mean other (non-[Hi]MD) format devices? That's a really interesting question. I won't be surprised if this chip is used in some professional recording equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Yeah non-HiMD gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avrin Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 It's actually quite hard to find out. Google does not help, except that it finds that this is a low-power ADC intended for portable devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixlau Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 What about the output ADC? Could anyone tell me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e1ghtyf1ve Posted July 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 (edited) What about the output ADC? Could anyone tell me?It's part of the DSP integrated into the CPU. The chip number is cxd2687. The DSP on all Hi-MD machines is of type S: 24 bits resolution. Much better than CD.cheersEdit: DSP = Digital Signal Processor Edited July 5, 2006 by e1ghtyf1ve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avrin Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 (edited) MZ-RH10's DAC+ATRAC+processor+stuff+crap: CXD2681-225GGMZ-RH1's DAC+ATRAC+processor+stuff+crap: CXD2687-001GGBoth chips are SONY (ifyouknowwhatimean). Enjoy!Don't make yourselves happy with 24-bit resolution. There isn't. Edited July 5, 2006 by Avrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 MZ-RH10's DAC+ATRAC+processor+stuff+crap: CXD2681-225GGMZ-RH1's DAC+ATRAC+processor+stuff+crap: CXD2687-001GGBoth chips are SONY (ifyouknowwhatimean). Enjoy!Don't make yourselves happy with 24-bit resolution. There isn't.Actually I don't know what you mean. About the chips being Sony or 24-bit, bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e1ghtyf1ve Posted July 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 MZ-RH10's DAC+ATRAC+processor+stuff+crap: CXD2681-225GGMZ-RH1's DAC+ATRAC+processor+stuff+crap: CXD2687-001GGBoth chips are SONY (ifyouknowwhatimean). Enjoy!Don't make yourselves happy with 24-bit resolution. There isn't.Type-S specifies 24-bits. The input may be limited to 20, but that has nothing to do with the DAC.cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 (edited) Found this on the web. Which is Type-S?TRAC Improvement over the Years:ATRAC 1 compression and noisy ADC and DAC introduced quite a few digital artifacts and noise into recordings.ATRAC 2 was greatly improved and was possibly one of the biggest leaps in improvement, with noise and digital artifacts greatly reduced.ATRAC 3: 3 improved to 24/16-bits for word and coefficiency length (previous to ATRAC 3 it was entirely 16-bit).ATRAC 3.5 was improved with a input width of 20- bits.ATRAC 4 works entirely in 24-bits and has a neat feature that Sony calls Wide Bit Stream.ATRAC 4.5 has an improved "Wide Bit Stream" audio resolution of 20- and 24-bits.ATRAC Type-R has two times more signal processing power than the 4.5 version. And from here http://www.minidisc.org/part_Decks_Sony.htmlFeatures: First ATRAC ``Type-S'' machine. NetMD and MDLP support. PS/2 keyboard input. Gold plated connectors. Torroidal R-Core transformer. Colors: Black and Silver. Only available in Europe?ATRAC Type-S: "Type-S" apparently refers to a new chip containing an improved version of the ATRAC3 codec as well as the ATRAC1 Type-R codec; the combination of the two is called DSP Type-S. From Sony's information sheet: "The two new products MDS-JB980 and MDS-JE780 in the press announcement at CeBIT both adopt the newly developed DSP (Digital Signal Processing) IC chip "CXD2664R." The CXD2664R chip has two DSP functions; one is ATRAC DSP and the other is ATRAC3 DSP. The ATRAC DSP, the TYPE-R algorithm which is the version of the highest grade, is adopted, and the highest sound quality can be obtained at the time of recording. And the ATRAC3 DSP, the algorithm of a newly developed DSP is adopted. It can reproduce the track recorded in MDLP mode in very high sound quality at the time of reproduction. This works in the same way for the disc recorded by other MDLP products. Sony calls the DSP functions of the CXD2664R chip "ATRAC/ATRAC3 DSP TYPE-S". In other words, "ATRAC/ATRAC3 DSP TYPE-S" is a combination of "ATRAC DSP (TYPE-R highest Version)" and "ATRAC3 DSP (newly developed)." Edited July 5, 2006 by Sparky191 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e1ghtyf1ve Posted July 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Found this on the web. Which is Type-S?And from here http://www.minidisc.org/part_Decks_Sony.htmlThe second part, with the MDS series decks explains it more clearly: Type R + ATRAC3 = Type S DSP. All are 24-bit internally. The portables use Sony's old "Super Bit Mapping" - i.e. 20-bits on input, 24-bits processing and output. The decks (I have the JB980) are all 24-bit; input, processing, and output.Why not 24-bits on the input for the Hi-MD portables? My guess is too much power. I remember the SBM-1 adapter needing it's own power supply, and that was only a 20-bit ADC too. My M-Audio 24/96 flash recorder barely gets 3 hrs at 24-bits, and its battery is three times the size and capacity of the RH1's.Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky191 Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 (edited) ....Both chips are SONY (ifyouknowwhatimean). Enjoy!Don't make yourselves happy with 24-bit resolution. There isn't.I don't see how that is explained byType-S specifies 24-bits. The input may be limited to 20, but that has nothing to do with the DAC.cheersWhat has Type S got to do with it?http://www.audiotstation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16069ATRAC Type-S? ATRAC Type-R? The difference is...?Not much!In fact, the only difference is that Type-S enables, "improved playback" of MDLP encoded discs. It does NOTHING on the encoding side of things, it is merely for playback only and works with ALL MDLP discs.Type-S incorporates Type-R for SP (Standard) encoding, so real-time recordings of Type-S and Type-R units will sound the same in SP and indeed MDLP modes. Why? Because units equipped with Type-R and Type-S still use ATRAC3 to encode MDLP tracks.Put very simply, Type-S does not offer any improvements over Type-R, except for enhanced MDLP track PLAYBACK.On reading about bits etc, I found these links. Others might be interested in themhttp://ccrma.stanford.edu/courses/192b/http://ccrma.stanford.edu/courses/192b/lectures/3/3.htmlhttp://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_3_3/v3n3n.htmlhttp://www.24bitfaq.org/ Edited July 6, 2006 by Sparky191 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardoz Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 AK5356 in the Hi-MD units?Awesome Can't wait till I take my spiffy new RH1 out to a live gig That said I probably wouldn't notice the difference. I'm very happy with my JB980 for analog recordings as it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e1ghtyf1ve Posted July 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 AK5356 in the Hi-MD units?Awesome Can't wait till I take my spiffy new RH1 out to a live gig That said I probably wouldn't notice the difference. I'm very happy with my JB980 for analog recordings as it is ...and it'll sound just as sweet (have both)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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