Line-Out v. max. volume out?

[MDX-400]

Given the information I was inquring about earlier in this thread:

http://www.atraclife.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=550&hl=

It's clear that if a remote is connected to an NW-HDx/Axxxx unit, the LINE-OUT mode is automatically disabled and cannot be reset until the remote is removed from the port...

The end result of this (for me) is that getting the Connects2 Walkman-to-Unilink adapter would require the use of the volume control set to max instead of the more desireable LINE-OUT mode when connecting up to the car head unit. I contacted Connects2 who further confirmed setting the volume control to maximum is the only thing to do when using the adapter which utilises the phones/remote port.

So first of all I'm thinking how much worse is the headphones output dialed to maxium compared with the actual line-out mode when one of these units (HD1/3/5 or A1000/3000) is connected to a receiver or amplifier? Has anyone tried this out to see how much difference it makes? I still have not purchased one but am still considering the HD3 (though I'm pretty much stuck getting a used one now).

I'm really trying to squeeze all the quality out of this as I can. I'm really not that keen on using MP3s to start with (I encode with 320kbit/s CBR @ --alt preset insane) and I'm not the type of person to be at all satisfied using something like an FM transmitter or FM modulator. So I really want the line out (plus HU control/display) when connecting it up in the car.

If the Line-Out really makes enough of a difference (compared to max. volume) I'm thinking about possibly hardware modding the unit so it stays in line-out mode permanently! The unit is pretty much only going to be used in the car or connected to a receiver/amp, so I don't care about getting the headphones output at all. I checked the service manual for test mode options but it seems there is no way to software-enable line-out mode regardless of the remote being plugged in

From the service manual I can see that (in the HD3) IC4301 takes care of the headphone amp and the line-out facilities. It seems pin 16 on IC4301 is the "HP_LINE_SEL" signal and connects to pin 162 (PR6) on IC1003 (he main system controller IC). I'm guessing this is an on/off type signal and depending on if it is "pulled high/low" that enables the line-out mode on IC4301? In that case it should be a relatively easy bypass, no? Simply disconnect pin 16 from the system controller and then connect it to the appropriate signal/voltage somewhere on the board and the headphones amp should stay in line-out mode permanently, correct? I could even wire a [somewhat ghetto] switch in to the outside of the unit for a line-out/headphones amp switch if I wanted to I think.

But I'm wondering if anyone can take a quick glance at the service manual and give me a little help/let me know if I'm on the right track?

Edited January 25, 2006 by MDX-400

[bangraman]

The difference between the Line Out mode and the headphone mode will be pretty profound. If you're set on using a Sony with Line signal, then it's a choice of either SQ or control.

If frequent use in the car is a prerequisite, then the iPod is IMO the best choice of DAP to get. Unparalleled car support.

[MDX-400]

The difference between the Line Out mode and the headphone mode will be pretty profound. If you're set on using a Sony with Line signal, then it's a choice of either SQ or control.

Hmm you really think it will be noticeable? Have you tried it yourself before to hear the difference?

If frequent use in the car is a prerequisite, then the iPod is IMO the best choice of DAP to get. Unparalleled car support.

iPod??? I *REFUSE*!!! LOL. If it were up to me Apple would go bankrupt. I hate Apple. No and not just the iPod, I hate everything Apple including QuickTime. I'm definitely not getting a POS iPod that's for sure; I'd rather have no DAP at all than have an iPod of any flavour.

And as for unparallelled car support, I'd say it has an awful lot of "car devices" out there yes; but, they aren't all great devices. FM Transmitters are even more of a POS/waste of time than the iPod itself. Yes there are many factory and aftermarket head integration adapters but some of them are not that great (e.g. features like folder support missing). Also those adapters don't cost any less than the Connects2 ASONWHD001 adapter (in fact most iPod interfaces cost more than the ASONWHD001). iPod for me = completely unnecessary. I have a Sony HU and Connects2 makes an integration adapter for the HDx, so why would I buy an iPod? I can't believe Sony decided not to make their own Walkman adapter in favour of an iPod adapter for UniLink--it sickens me!

Anyway, I think I'll have to get an HD3 and if the line/volume difference is really that large, I'm definitely going to attempt to hard-mod the HD3 so it stays in line-out mode with the remote connected. If I can find a really small DIP switch or something, I figure I might even be able to have a switch to go back to the player controlling IC3401 if I ever need to connect headphones...

[KJ_Palmer]

The NW-HD5 does stay in Line Out mode with the remote attached, by the way, unlike MD units and maybe the other DAPs.

[Greg1982]

Why dont they make car kits that access the NW-A3000 via the botton usb part??

I've got a desk cradle and when i plug my mp3 player into it it switches to line out automatically if the line out is pluged into the cradle. surly using that port you couls still control the player as well!!

I really want to use my player in my car but not via a quick fix. I want it to be in a cradle and plugged into my system like the ipod ones are!!

[bangraman]

Hmm you really think it will be noticeable? Have you tried it yourself before to hear the difference?

iPod??? I *REFUSE*!!! LOL. If it were up to me Apple would go bankrupt. I hate Apple. No and not just the iPod, I hate everything Apple including QuickTime. I'm definitely not getting a POS iPod that's for sure; I'd rather have no DAP at all than have an iPod of any flavour.

And as for unparallelled car support, I'd say it has an awful lot of "car devices" out there yes; but, they aren't all great devices. FM Transmitters are even more of a POS/waste of time than the iPod itself. Yes there are many factory and aftermarket head integration adapters but some of them are not that great (e.g. features like folder support missing). Also those adapters don't cost any less than the Connects2 ASONWHD001 adapter (in fact most iPod interfaces cost more than the ASONWHD001). iPod for me = completely unnecessary. I have a Sony HU and Connects2 makes an integration adapter for the HDx, so why would I buy an iPod? I can't believe Sony decided not to make their own Walkman adapter in favour of an iPod adapter for UniLink--it sickens me!

Anyway, I think I'll have to get an HD3 and if the line/volume difference is really that large, I'm definitely going to attempt to hard-mod the HD3 so it stays in line-out mode with the remote connected. If I can find a really small DIP switch or something, I figure I might even be able to have a switch to go back to the player controlling IC3401 if I ever need to connect headphones...

Yes there is a fairly major difference. I figured you were pretty determined about it going by the way you wrote your post, but I thought I'd drop in the considered opinion as an occasional in-car user. The HD3 is not a recommended purchase in any case with it's slow UI and awkward controls (notably improved in the HD5). If you're set on going with an inferior solution though, I'd suggest preamping the headphone out with a cheap headphone amp rather than going with a ghetto mod which may or may not work.

[xispe]

Try hacking the device, by grounding the pin 16. I think that should disable the line out switching.

[MDX-400]

The NW-HD5 does stay in Line Out mode with the remote attached, by the way, unlike MD units and maybe the other DAPs.

Oh it does eh? That's good to hear... In the other thread a user tried it out for me on the A3000 and it refused to go into line-out mode. The HD3, I'm not sure about but according to Connects2 themselves, they say max. volume is the only way to do it. I wonder why the HD5 would be any different? Is that with an LCD remote connected or a non LCD remote?

[MDX-400]

Why dont they make car kits that access the NW-A3000 via the botton usb part??

I've got a desk cradle and when i plug my mp3 player into it it switches to line out automatically if the line out is pluged into the cradle. surly using that port you couls still control the player as well!!

I really want to use my player in my car but not via a quick fix. I want it to be in a cradle and plugged into my system like the ipod ones are!!

Yeah this is a good question. It's mainly that there is very little in the way of aftermarket devices for the Sony players. They aren't that popular, so no companies (even Sony themselves) bother to make stuff for them With the A1000/A3000 you have that connector at the bottom though that can supply audio output for such things as a dock/stand. The HD3 has no such facility to my knowledge (only USB and power can go in it's "bottom connector").

I'm really just happy someone like Connects2 came along and made such an adapter because otherwise this wouldn't even be an option at all.

The Sony dock someone pointed out for the A3000 does indeed have line-out through the bottom. Connects2 say they are still testing compatibility with the A3000 and their adapter--it will likely require a firmware update to work though. What one could do, in that case would be to connect the adapter to the A3000 and then instead of using the RCA audio output on the adapter (that would normally connect to the car audio HU or MCA) use the line-out audio from the dock instead. Fairly simple. Unfortunately it can only be done with the A1000/A3000 and at that with a $50+ dock accessory.

Also keep in mind that the iPod integration adapters are not all cradled and nice as you might be imagining. Most of them just plug into the bottom of the iPod and that's that. You don't necessarily get a stand/dock with them. There are probably ones that have dock/stand/holder things but most of the ones that I've seen have no such thing. Also I think the point (for many people) of the integration adapters is not to have your DAP out and on display but hidden away in the glove box or centre console--somewhere out of sight--while retaining full control and display capabilities from the HU.

The HD3 is not a recommended purchase in any case with it's slow UI and awkward controls (notably improved in the HD5). If you're set on going with an inferior solution though, I'd suggest preamping the headphone out with a cheap headphone amp rather than going with a ghetto mod which may or may not work.

Really? The HD3 is not recommended? I was kinda set on the HD3 because I don't see much different about the HD5 or the A3000 even. They're just more expensive it seems... The HD5 looks ugly (IMO) too and the button cracking issues don't really make me too keen on it. Plus the HD3 is made in Japan which is nice. Unless the UI on the HD3 is *terrible*, I'm pretty sure I could live with it.... The A3000 is nice but it's expensive.

As for the mod, I'm pretty confident it will work (because it makes perfect sense--that is how the main controller commands the headphone amp IC to switch to line out mode). The "ghettoness" of it would only be trying to put in a switch somewhere outside to be able to switch back and forth. Depending on if there is any space inside the casing and if I can find a very small switch (like a DIP) there may even be the possibility of adding the switch to the unit internally and making it look quite "factory". Or I could just forgo the ability to switch back altogether.

Try hacking the device, by grounding the pin 16. I think that should disable the line out switching.

Oh so simply grounding it should do it? That's cool. I haven't gotten an HD3 yet but I will have to test it out if/when I do. Thanks!

Edited January 26, 2006 by MDX-400

[bobspud]

I used my A3000 in the car for the first time today. I am very happy with it. the Lineout is very much better than

the normal mode. Its gui is a bit slow to use in comparison with my old ipod mini. Although the mini had serious issues when charging it while it was in the lineout mode.

I would suggest you choose a player then live with it for a week or two before you start trying to hack it to bits...