Got an NW-A3000..love it.. Apple you SUCK

[stevester162000]

Just got my shiny new NW-A3000 and what a machine it is! Very impressed with the sound quality just like you expect from a Sony. The difference between this and the Ipod Video is unreal I can't believe Apple get away with such lousy audio from such an expensive piece of kit. Market leader my arse! As long as the next Walkman has Video and decent battery life/software/music store its got to be an ipod thrasher hasn't it? Come on Sony!

[Guest Stuge]

I`m sure that we will see Sony Video walkman in future & It definately beat I-pod.

[pata2001]

How long did it take Sony to actually support MP3 in MD? And no MP3 support when HD1 first came out? Let's face it, Sony still has its Sony music and sony pictures departments do the talking. "Video support," if ever, is probably going to be heavily limited and DRMed to death.

IMO, before Sony going to video, they must really put improvements in software first. What use a good hardware with buggy software?

[MDX-400]

How long did it take Sony to actually support MP3 in MD?

Hmm, I fail to see what that really has to do with a video playing DAP being released by Sony. Actually I fail to see what it means at all. MD from the start was not ever designed to "support MP3"; MD was it's own format for use in the consumer market long before PCs and MP3s gained popularity and started to go hand in hand as they are nowadays. MPEG-1 Layer 2 audio was actually based on PASC and therefore the format of MD competitor DCC. Why on earth MD would ever come to support the third audio layer of MPEG-1 was not even a consideration or possibility. By the time MP3s were getting popular Sony's answer in the beginning was to use ATRAC3 (MDLP) alongside original ATRAC (SP). Later that went on to NetMD; which there is considerable evidence that was being developed ever since MDLP was designed. Yes NetMD did convert such files as MP3s to ATRAC3/3plus and the transcoding loss makes it even worse but was that really the fault of Sony or the people that only had their music as MP3s? Because NetMD used a computer connection, I think too many people were expecting MP3 support just because of that, when the truth is I don't think ever made any sense in MD's hardware "roadmap", at least not until MP3s and devices like iPods really started taking over and Sony was years late and plenty of dollars short with Hi-MD MP3 implementation.

Yes you could argue that MP3 support could (or should) have been implemented prior to this in MD and that Sony dropped the ball there but, IMO, MD was never designed with MP3 in mind and that is why it was never implemented until the last generation of MD. Even at that the MP3 capability of the few Hi-MD units that have it, is pretty lacklustre. I don't see why people cannot just separate MP3s and MDs just as they would separate MP3 from WMA or Ogg/Vorbis or whatever other formats have you.

To me (and I know other people don't see it this way) asking why MD didn't support MP3s before is like asking "why doesn't WMA support MP3?"--it just doesn't make any sense.

And no MP3 support when HD1 first came out?

Now the HD1 not supporting MP3, I'll agree on. What Sony was thinking there is beyond me. And it's clear the device can do MP3s without a problem they just didn't implement it until later with the firmware upgrade. Were they just rushing this thing out to the shelves before they had firmware written to use the hardware for MP3?

Let's face it, Sony still has its Sony music and sony pictures departments do the talking. "Video support," if ever, is probably going to be heavily limited and DRMed to death.

IMO, before Sony going to video, they must really put improvements in software first. What use a good hardware with buggy software?

Hmm, but can't you play video fairly freely on the PSP, which is another Sony device? Why would you get DRMed to death if they released a video-capable HDD player?

As for good hardware and poor software, I'd definitely agree in the case of Connect Player (which is so bad it seems that Sony is pulling the plug on it!). SonicStage isn't that great either. But personally I'd rather have great hardware and not-so-great software than average hardware and excellent software--but that's probably because I'm willing to put up with headaches here and there with using software as I've been doing for over 10 years with all kinds of computer-related stuff anyway.

I think Sony could definitely have competitive hardware out for a video-capable HDD-based DAP device by the next generation of Network Walkman. Whether they'll have competitive software is another story--they've been fumbling that ever since NetMD started.

Edited January 29, 2006 by MDX-400

[pata2001]

Hmm, I fail to see what that really has to do with a video playing DAP being released by Sony.

Hmm, but can't you play video fairly freely on the PSP, which is another Sony device? Why would you get DRMed to death if they released a video-capable HDD player?

I was stating that just to point out that Sony would be the last to put "mainstream" features in their products, thanks to sony music and sony pictures.

Sony limit the resolution for self-encoded videos to 320x240, while the PSP's native screen resolution is 480 x 272. Only UMD movies take the advantage of higher resolution. Besides, there is still control/limitation on the medium, memory stick, which is Sony's propietary, not a 60GB hard-drive. PSP is an oddball (heck, it even supports AAC, while none of Sony's portable audio devices do). PSP development doesn't translate equally to the consumer electronics side though.

Again, if Sony music can put so much pressure to hamper development on Sony portable audio devices, what do you think about sony pictures? They have UMD, and blu-ray in the horizon (which is also heavily DRMed). What do you think the executives say if they are presented with a DRM-free device, and that they don't have control on the content (via medium or DRM)?

Creative managed to make the vision:M supporting divx/xvid, since they don't have any conflict of interest in the entertainment industry. Apple is kinda in the middle. They don't have a tight relation with the entertainment industry, but they don't want the RIAA/MPAA pulled the plug on iTune store either.

[bobspud]

Hmm, but can't you play video fairly freely on the PSP, which is another Sony device? Why would you get DRMed to death if they released a video-capable HDD player?

It can be done but I think Sony would prefer you to buy a UMD copy of the film instead of ripping it to a memory stick...

[Ascariss]

MD as mentioned was never designed to be an mp3 storage for playback.

It was like the casette where you could record your music, but now digitally and over and over again with no loss of quality. I used one pre NetMD minidisc and also the NetMD one, both were MDLP, but no HiMD units.

This is why I am here, I needed to replace the minidisc, due to its lacking battery life and limited amount of music I could stick on it. Even at LP2, it wasn't enoigh.

I was meaning to venture towards HiMD, but the minidisc is a dying species in the MP3 player world and really has no chance to compete. That is why i picked up the hdd based players. Even the first ones didn't support Mp3s, and only later did the hd3 support them via a firmware upgrade. The HD5 was a step in the right direction. the new A series is as well, except for the connect player, which didn't turn out like Sony hoped.

The mp3 wasn't as popular as it is now, and due to the fact that many people lacked high speed internet connections was another problem. Sure you could rip your music to mp3, but that was mainly so you could store all your mp3s on your pc to listen to them, not for a portable device.

We all know that changed, with the arrival of affordable high speed internet, and most people not going to ever go back to 56k, and most likely moving to faster speeds, the mp3 took off. One problem was that the music industry wasn't prepared for this, even though the mp3 development came from the industry itself.

As we all Napster changed the word mp3 and p2p software. Once cd sales started dropping, the labels began to panic, and blamed napster and sharing for the loss of sales. In addition the mp3 was blamed as well. Which is why DRM was born. You could argue that crappy music was to blame for poor cd sales, and I agree with this. But another problem I am stuck with is the availability of the genre of music I want. It just isn't for sale here in canada, well where I am at least. Paying 15 pounds if not more, and shipping from the UK for 1 or 2 cds is a bit hefty for a student. This is why I like some of the mp3 stores, but some still charge an arm or a leg for single songs on there.

What was stopping a person from going to his friends house, then loading up his mp3s onto a MD and then downloading them onto his pc? depends, most likely nothing, but a cd would be faster you say, with more capacity as well. True, but if your friend had no cd burner, the MD recorder was easily used as a device to copy things. That is why the limitation was put on it.

DRM on blu-ray and even more new media, like Maxells holographic discs will be designed to stop illegal copying. We'll see how sony deals with DRM, mp3s and video files for their next walkman.

personally watching videos on small screens is not something I want to do. Oddly i've yet to see a single person at school watching a video on their video ipod. I've seen a few people watching movies on the PSP, but the screen is still too small for me. I for one won't be buying the new mp3 from sony for its video capability, but for mp3, since last time I checked that is what an mp3 is.

DAP is what I want, not a DMP, digital media player, that is what my computer is. I want a large screen to see the detail and not a 2x2 inch square where you can't see jack.

[Olz]

Woo woo, slow down Ascariss. Have YOU actually ever watched a movie on the PSP that is coming from UMD. Huh? Have you? Before you start saying you cant see "jack" maybe you should experience it for yourself rather than assuming it will be poor. I agree the IPod video has a small screen, and when watching videos is near pointless (it plays music teribbly too), but watching things on the PSP is actually quite good. Before I got mine I was doubtful about just how easy it would be to see, but after using it for a while (Spiderman 2 is good) you appreciate it. Anyway isnt the point of having a portable movie player, so that it is actually portable? Small enough to carry around without looking an idiot. I cant really imagine you sitting at an airport waiting for you flight with a 17" flatscreen monitor in front of you with a DVD player next to (maybe even surround sound) . A silly but rather amusing idea. The PSP has a good balance of screen size and portability. The IPod video is trying to be a small HDD mp3 player AND a video player, result....it does neither very well. Maybe you would like the new iRiver (G-10). Which has a very high-res screen and HDD. Shown here:

http://images.google.co.uk/images?svnum=10...ver+g10&spell=1

Sorry for that rather long rant above, its nothing personal Ascariss, but I get annoyed when people judge things before having experienced them for themselves, especially the PSP as it is an amazing device (or at least in my opinion), that supports many standards, but unfortunately is still hampered by Sony's insistence to stop copying and illegal software making. I totally agree with what you say about the MD being a dying species (as much as some people at the MD forums may hate to hear). I've sold two of my players and got an NWA instead. The space is limiting and I found my Hi-MD incredibly slow.

You say you live in Canada and have to import them from the UK. Why all that way? Do we in the UK have all that greater selection of music?

Edited January 30, 2006 by Olz

[EZero]

I think the point was, Sony is very slow moving. The A3000 was already behind the iPod when announced (the 20GB color iPod), and it's been what, 4-5 months, and Apple has released the Nano and the Video iPod, while Sony still hasn't released the A series in the US. I wouldn't expect a video player from Sony for quite a while, and by that time, there will be a new major feature that all DAPs are coming out with that Sony doesn't have.

I still don't get why Sony released a DAP that had a color screen, and then went back to no color. Talk about stupid moves.

[Ishiyoshi]

but watching things on the PSP is actually quite good. Before I got mine I was doubtful about just how easy it would be to see, but after using it for a while (Spiderman 2 is good) you appreciate it.

I do agree with you regarding video quality on the PSP. I have encoded over 20GB worth of AVC movies for my PSP and the quality is just superb for its purpose; and that is just in 368x204 size. Hopefully, Sony will allow us to encode AVC movies in PSP's native screen resolution: 480 x 272.

I wouldn't expect a video player from Sony for quite a while, and by that time, there will be a new major feature that all DAPs are coming out with that Sony doesn't have.

I still don't get why Sony released a DAP that had a color screen, and then went back to no color. Talk about stupid moves.

Sony had the HMP-A1 for a while now; released around the same time as the VAIO Pocket. This device supports Mp3 and WAV playback and of course plays Video and serve as a Photo Viewer as well. Click the link for Stan's thorough pictorial-review.

As for future release of a color DAP from Sony... I am sure it's coming - just a matter of time as they sort thru the current issue with CONNECT Player.

[MDX-400]

the PSP as it is an amazing device (or at least in my opinion), that supports many standards, but unfortunately is still hampered by Sony's insistence to stop copying and illegal software making.

This is one of the funniest statements! LOL. I know, like what is it with Sony and their insistence that people not make illegal copies of stuff? So totally bothersome! Like the other day I was trying to stab someone and along came a police officer and I was like "hey what's up with this, why does the state insist on me not doing this, it's totally hampering me". LOL. Now obviously I'm being sarcastic (and wasn't trying to stab anyone, lol) but you get the point.

I mean be realistic now... What do you expect Sony to do? Say "Woohoo here's the PSP! Feel free to make illegal copies of games and sell them to your friends, family and strangers!"??? Though the insistence of companies and the law the law that you not make illegal copies of music, games, and music may "hamper" your pirating lifestyle, keep in mind there is actually a reason behind copyright and patent laws.

You say you live in Canada and have to import them from the UK. Why all that way? Do we in the UK have all that greater selection of music?

Regarding this, I don't know if it is so much that you have a greater selection in the UK, it might be more that you have the stuff he's listening to/looking for whereas it is harder to get here. I'm sure the reverse could be applied as well where things available over here might not be available over there.

I still don't get why Sony released a DAP that had a color screen, and then went back to no color. Talk about stupid moves.

I don't see how this is stupid. OEL display technology is quite good really. It consumes less power and is visible from pretty much any distance and at any angle, and remains sharp/clear. I remember I had a Motorola Timeport phone that used OEL and the display really couldn't be beat. The only time it didn't fare too well was when it was very sunny outside, but then again I had it set to nearly the lowest brightness because inside it was blazingly bright/clear. And that is still no loss from a colour LCD either, which will usually wash out just as easily in sunlight. Furthermore given the design of the A (the mirror/tinted type of finish it has), a regular colour LCD would have required a clear window part on the unit making it completely stop the flow of the design. Whereas on the other hand the OEL shines through nicely.

How does it make it any better to have a colour screen on a music player? It doesn't really. Obviously if we're talking about a video or photo capable device then there's a need for a real colour screen on there but for just audio, colour doesn't really do anything. I think people put too much emphasis on the "ooh ahh" of a colour screen (eventhough they shouldn't since like every cellphone has them nowadays, they're nothing special), without even thinking about the functionality.

IMO, going back to the OEL wasn't a step backwards at all. Maybe a step sideways (there are both advantages and disadvantages compared to a colour display) but definitely not backwards.

[Ascariss]

Woo woo, slow down Ascariss. Have YOU actually ever watched a movie on the PSP that is coming from UMD. Huh? Have you? Before you start saying you cant see "jack" maybe you should experience it for yourself rather than assuming it will be poor. I agree the IPod video has a small screen, and when watching videos is near pointless (it plays music teribbly too), but watching things on the PSP is actually quite good. Before I got mine I was doubtful about just how easy it would be to see, but after using it for a while (Spiderman 2 is good) you appreciate it. Anyway isnt the point of having a portable movie player, so that it is actually portable? Small enough to carry around without looking an idiot. I cant really imagine you sitting at an airport waiting for you flight with a 17" flatscreen monitor in front of you with a DVD player next to (maybe even surround sound) . A silly but rather amusing idea. The PSP has a good balance of screen size and portability. The IPod video is trying to be a small HDD mp3 player AND a video player, result....it does neither very well. Maybe you would like the new iRiver (G-10). Which has a very high-res screen and HDD. Shown here:

http://images.google.co.uk/images?svnum=10...ver+g10&spell=1

Sorry for that rather long rant above, its nothing personal Ascariss, but I get annoyed when people judge things before having experienced them for themselves, especially the PSP as it is an amazing device (or at least in my opinion), that supports many standards, but unfortunately is still hampered by Sony's insistence to stop copying and illegal software making. I totally agree with what you say about the MD being a dying species (as much as some people at the MD forums may hate to hear). I've sold two of my players and got an NWA instead. The space is limiting and I found my Hi-MD incredibly slow.

You say you live in Canada and have to import them from the UK. Why all that way? Do we in the UK have all that greater selection of music?

I didn't mention UMD discs at all. I said video on the psp, which many of my friends who have psps use memory sticks and vidoes they load on it. the quality isn't great and just like an ipod video, which is even more worthless, watching movies on a small screen isn't for me. I've seen 2 movies on umd and although nice for that screen, I'd rather watch a dvd version on a larger tv.

house music isn't available that widely here in canada, well at least not out west. promos and cds is what I usualyl buy, and those either come in vinyl, which are $$$ or mp3 format from uk sites. there is a lot of selection of music here, but not house.

[Guest Stuge]

OLZ,

Like if i buy psp than I will use only for video or Games purpose as for listeninig music I will prefer to use Dedicated music player HD5 or E505 .

[Olz]

A number of issues here. Some of you are getting things wrong, or not making sense.

Firstly MDX-400 the NWA does not have a OEL display (Organic Electroluminescent) as this is a rare Pioneer technology seemingly. It actually uses an OLED (Organic Light Emitting Diode) screen. I might stand corrected if someone prooves me wrong.

Secondly about the illegal copying of sofware etc that you were sarcastic about. Are you trying to tell me MDX-400 that never, not once in your life have you copied or lent or borrowed etc a music, game, video cd/dvd? Never? Or used P2P software to download songs illegally? I have to say I think you are probably in a minority there, becuase I know an awful lot of poeple who have/do. I appreciate the reasoning behind the laws and dont like breaking them, but when Sony do things like pointlessly stopping people playing videos on the PSP at the screens native resoultion I do get slightly annoyed. All it results in is a loss of money for them. The chances are you already bought the DVD from them (Sony Entertainment). I along with you MDX-400 am totally against people copying PSP games and putting them on their Memory Stick for free, as for one it stops companies bothering to make more good original games as they make too little profit. Its very annoying. Wouldn't you agree however that people should be able to make their own software and play it on the device they paid £180 for? Not according to Sony's rules. Instead people are forced to hack Sony's work just to do this.

By the way MDX-400, you do know that under Atrac devices youve got just the letter "A". Is that deliberate or just a mistake?

I'd rather watch a dvd version on a larger tv.

I agree with you Ascariss, given the choice I would rather watch a film on a large TV at home. However if you are away from home you cannot do this so need a mobile device. Roll on PSP. This allows you to watch movies on the go, at the cost of a smaller screen. Anyway there is no point trying to make you like the PSP or watching movies on the go, after all, if you dont want to you dont have to.

OLZ,

Like if i buy psp than I will use only for video or Games purpose as for listeninig music I will prefer to use Dedicated music player HD5 or E505 .

I totally agree with what you are trying to say here Stuge. Desite having a PSP, I still wanted an NWA becuase its much smaller, cheaper by the GB, and have more music related features...along with a longer battery life. I dont want to swap it. Devices designed for one thing usually do that one best. A great example it the modern mobile phone. Does almost everything expect make a phone call. Cameras...well near pointless, as the lense is ridiculously small and they generally only have 1-2 megapixels. Music players...less pointless, but storage space is usually the limiting factor. Videos...on what, that puny screen at a terribly low bitrate, you've got to be kidding.

Ive gone on at a lot of people, but this is a forum and things are meant to be discussed, so if you want to have a go at what I've said, or totally disagree, sure go ahead.

[MDX-400]

A number of issues here. Some of you are getting things wrong, or not making sense.

Firstly MDX-400 the NWA does not have a OEL display (Organic Electroluminescent) as this is a rare Pioneer technology seemingly. It actually uses an OLED (Organic Light Emitting Diode) screen. I might stand corrected if someone prooves me wrong.

Hmm, I see--I didn't know that! I know the technologies are separate and different and I'm ususally very careful not to confuse them but it seems I have here? Most OLED displays are colour though, no? That's the whole point of it I thought, a colour display that can be *paper* thin, thus trumping even the LCD in display thinness. OEL displays are usually monochrome or only 1-3 colours but the colours can't usually display in the same places (i.e. one section of the display which is orange must always be orange, a green section of the display must always be green). Since the NW-A seems to have a monochrome display (truth be told I've never seen it in person) I figured it was OEL and not OLED.

Edit: Actually I was correct. The screen, accoriding to SonyStyle.ca is Organic Electro-Luminescient (OEL), which does make sense because of the display being monochrome and having to have the brilliance/contrast/sharpness to be visible through the mirror-tint finish of the unit. Though it is very easy to confuse the two because of similar acronyms.

Secondly about the illegal copying of sofware etc that you were sarcastic about. Are you trying to tell me MDX-400 that never, not once in your life have you copied or lent or borrowed etc a music, game, video cd/dvd? Never?

Well no I'm not going to say never, obviously, lol. But I was just commenting more that it was a humourous statement rather than a comment on piracy/intellectual rights/etc.

Wouldn't you agree however that people should be able to make their own software and play it on the device they paid £180 for? Not according to Sony's rules. Instead people are forced to hack Sony's work just to do this.

No I actually agree with what most of what you said... My previous post was really in a humorous tone that I guess didn't come across that way, lol.

By the way MDX-400, you do know that under Atrac devices youve got just the letter "A". Is that deliberate or just a mistake?

Oh you mean in my profile or something? Yeah that has to be a mistake/typo. I have no [non-MD] ATRAC devices, but I just won an auction for a used HD3 on eBay so that will soon change

[bangraman]

I don't see how this is stupid. OEL display technology is quite good really. It consumes less power and is visible from pretty much any distance and at any angle, and remains sharp/clear. I remember I had a Motorola Timeport phone that used OEL and the display really couldn't be beat. The only time it didn't fare too well was when it was very sunny outside, but then again I had it set to nearly the lowest brightness because inside it was blazingly bright/clear. And that is still no loss from a colour LCD either, which will usually wash out just as easily in sunlight. Furthermore given the design of the A (the mirror/tinted type of finish it has), a regular colour LCD would have required a clear window part on the unit making it completely stop the flow of the design. Whereas on the other hand the OEL shines through nicely.

How does it make it any better to have a colour screen on a music player? It doesn't really. Obviously if we're talking about a video or photo capable device then there's a need for a real colour screen on there but for just audio, colour doesn't really do anything. I think people put too much emphasis on the "ooh ahh" of a colour screen (eventhough they shouldn't since like every cellphone has them nowadays, they're nothing special), without even thinking about the functionality.

IMO, going back to the OEL wasn't a step backwards at all. Maybe a step sideways (there are both advantages and disadvantages compared to a colour display) but definitely not backwards.

I think the OLED display is a retrograde step in everything that matters as far as the user is concerned, apart from battery life and in-shop/geek wow factor.

The entire crop of the current Sony OLED-based portables (E-series flash, RH MD, NW-A series HD) are invisible under daylight. Add to that the ghosting effect, very visible on the NW-A series, caused by the reflecting of the OLED light off inner surfaces of the screen assembly and the slow refresh rate leading to flickering of the display, and you get probably the most compromised display in the entire market.

Taking as an opposite example the iPod’s displays (both Nano and 5G), both displays can be clearly seen in broad daylight without the backlight needing to be on. Both Nano and 5G displays are razor-sharp in comparison to looking at the NW-A displays in anywhere other than the perfect position (one eye closed, unit perfectly in front of one eye), and suffer no flickering.