Separate DAC

[bluecrab]

A while back, I bought a Marantz CD5001 CD player. Over the months, I cannot help but notice that this unit sounds noticeably better that the MD decks I most often use (MXD-D400, MDS-JB940). The MD decks sound fine, they're just not in the same class as the Marantz. I'm thinking it may be that the Marantz (which also sounds better than my other CD players), just has a better DAC. I cannot think of any other explanation.

So, I was wondering if anyone has used or is using an external DAC connected to MD and if so, is there a noticeable difference between it and the MD unit's own DAC? I'm not sure how I'd go about selecting a DAC - they are on the pricey side, I believe - but I wanted to at least ask about this.

Thanks.

[boojum]

I do not use an outboard DAC for my NH1. However, there are quite a few folks who do use them. The crowd at taperssection.com is quite strong for them. I like to keep it as simple as possible so I do not yet use one. YMMV

[greenmachine]

boojum, are you talking about recording? If so, you probably mean ADC (analog to digital converter).

bluecrab, bear in mind that MD decks use a lossy compressed format, which may contribute to the perceived difference.

[bluecrab]

boojum, are you talking about recording? If so, you probably mean ADC (analog to digital converter).

bluecrab, bear in mind that MD decks use a lossy compressed format, which may contribute to the perceived difference.

Prior to my using the Marantz CD5001, there was not much, if any, noticeable difference between MD and CD that I could tell. But the 5001 sounds better than not only MD, but other CD players I have as well.

Here is what I may try: Record CD>MD>CD. Take the resulting CD, play it on the 5001, and see if it sounds better than the MD. Of course, there's no objectivity here, but it really does seem to me like the 5001 does sound the best out of all my playback equipment.

What I really am interested in finding out is whether an external DAC would help the MD decks sound better, especially the MXD-D400 with its hybrid pulse DAC. Hi-MD is not an option I am pursuing at this time due to lack of an appropriate and available deck. I also am not sure I want to get into a format that is not truly compatible with other gear.

[A440]

Hi-MD is not an option I am pursuing at this time .

You'd be better off getting a Hi-MD unit than getting DAC for playback of your MDs.

Whether you use the DAC in the unit or an external one, the compressed sound of MD is not going to compare with full .wav CDs. And your CD-MD-CD experiment is going to compress the music and then make an analog copy of the compressed music--there will be quality loss.

Hi-MD records at CD quality in PCM. MD just doesn't. Even if you have optical out from your deck and a fancy DAC, the sound will still be compressed.

And actually, Hi-MD is more compatible with other audio gear than MD, because you can upload the files and use them as .wav files on standard playback devices.

[bluecrab]

You'd be better off getting a Hi-MD unit than getting DAC for playback of your MDs.

Whether you use the DAC in the unit or an external one, the compressed sound of MD is not going to compare with full .wav CDs. And your CD-MD-CD experiment is going to compress the music and then make an analog copy of the compressed music--there will be quality loss.

Hi-MD records at CD quality in PCM. MD just doesn't. Even if you have optical out from your deck and a fancy DAC, the sound will still be compressed.

And actually, Hi-MD is more compatible with other audio gear than MD, because you can upload the files and use them as .wav files on standard playback devices.

Let me see if I understand this completely. I can record from, say CD player to Hi-MD recorder directly via CD opt. out to Hi_MD opt. in, in PCM. And I will then be able to put 1 hr 34 min of uncompressed audio on a Hi-MD disc.

I could also use Hi-SP and get 7 hr 55 min on a Hi-MD disc or 2 hr 20 min on a regular MD.

However, because I have a Mac, not a PC, I cannot go directly from the Mac to the Hi-MD unit (IOW, a CD in the Mac cannot be transferred directly to the Hi-MD, as I think it can w/Simple Burner.) Is that right?

This seems like a lot of expense for me, not to mention introducing a new format and a new (Hi-MD) unit. Really, I'm not unhappy with the performance of my compressed SP MDs, I just wonder whether a DAC would make them sound better.

It's funny after all these years of the MD community's insisting that MD sounds as good as CD, are we now stating that it does not? I do like the idea of an hour and a half length uncompressed MD, I'm just not sure it's what's right for me, especially where the Hi-MD units lack optical or coax out.

Edited May 18, 2007 by bluecrab

[bluecrab]

I'm planning on getting an optical out added to a MD-105FX Hi-MD deck. It shouldn't be so complicated. There's a thread on this somewhere on the forum.

That is excellent. I know there is a member here who added one to his MDS-JE4*0. He said it was kind of a lot of work, but it was worth it. I don't think I'd try it myself, but that is b/c I know my limits. Too bad the MD-105FX doesn't come with optical out, as it should. Good luck with that mod!

[A440]

I don't have a Mac, but it seems that with Mac Transfer 2.0 and the RH1 you can transfer the music as .wav or .mp3, though not Hi-SP. See 2 below.

MZ-RH1:

1. User can import audio data recorded in Linear PCM, Hi-SP or Hi-LP mode on the Macintosh-compatible Hi-MD Walkman to a Macintosh computer after converting to WAV format audio data.*1

2. User can download WAV*2 or MP3 format audio data from a Macintosh computer to a Hi-MD Walkman.*3

More is here: http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=16424

It's funny after all these years of the MD community's insisting that MD sounds as good as CD, are we now stating that it does not? I do like the idea of an hour and a half length uncompressed MD, I'm just not sure it's what's right for me, especially where the Hi-MD units lack optical or coax out.

I don't think there were a lot of claims that MDs sound as good as CDs. Just that they were convenient and sounded good enough for quality live recording.

You might find that your MD player has its DAC optimized to make SP sound good, so that an external DAC wouldn't offer much improvement, but I couldn't say.

Hi-MD units don't really need optical or coax out because you can get exact copies of their digital files off the MD, and then play them through whatever fantastic stereo equpment you have.

[THIS SUCKS]

i have an mds-je510. you can definetly tell that the analog output is missing some hi end. i have a i hi end pioneer cd recorder deck. i will connect the digital output to that and see if the sound is better.

[Jamesy]

Some good CD players have optical/coaxial inputs so you can use their DAC, does your Marantz have this capability? There's a Cambridge Audio CD player which does this, I *think* it's the 740C (and possibly other models). It has at least one nice Wolfson DAC in its output.

It may also be possible to change the DAC inside your MD, you'd be surprised how many parts like this are pin compatible.

I think though, as others have said, what you're probably hearing is the fundamental limitation of the MD format - it is compressed. And while replacing a cheap DAC with a better one will make the situation better, it won't get you past this limitation.