Best Atrac/Bitrate ?

[DaveElson]

Hello All

Been a while since I looked in here.

I've had md for many years and a couple of years ago purchased a Sony RH 910 but haven't used it in a while.

I've d/loaded what I think is the latest Sonicstage - 4.3.

Bit rusty with conversions etc but as I have tons of the regular md's, I want to start filling them up.

What is the "best" bitrate for regular use? I understand it's subjective - just wondering what people think is the best mix of quality and space used, or you mostly use. Also - I don't see an Atrac3 plus option.

Also - can this md import mp3 (more curious than anything, Atrac is supposed to be better anyway?)

Any advice appreciated.

Cheers.

[Ishiyoshi]

What is the "best" bitrate for regular use? I understand it's subjective - just wondering what people think is the best mix of quality and space used, or you mostly use.

I personally prefer ATRAC3plus 352kbps for optimum SQ. Naturally, this is relative to the setup one utilize. But if you are working with limited capacity, you can choose ATRAC3plus @ 256kbps or 192kbps.

Also - I don't see an Atrac3 plus option.

ATRAC3plus is listed as ATRAC within SonicStage (ie. ATRAC 352kbps, 256kbps, 192kbps...).

Also - can this md import mp3

2nd generation Hi-MD units can playback Mp3 files.

[DaveElson]

Thanks for your time - cleared it up for me.

[alexis]

My opinion on the subject is quite different. I personaly use lots of Hi-LP tracks, because they sound great (at least using mid-end earphones in a bus or in a busy office) and take much, much less space on a disk. This is good enough to casually listen to tunes and enjoy the music (I am talking about enjoying music, which is not the same as enjoying the sound). I also use Hi-SP recordings for my favorite tunes, and for those where I think that superior sound quality is needed.

To be honest, if you have lots of MiniDiscs left, you may as well use different bitrates depending on the purpose of your disc/mix. To do sports or at work, Hi-LP is more than sufficient and will allow ten hours of recordings on one Hi-MD-formatted regular MD. For a mix of your favourite music, to enjoy the listening at home under good conditions, opt for Hi-SP. I think higher bitrates will not be discernable from Hi-SP and will just take more space on the disc.

It is really easy to convert to multiple bitrates using SonicStage, so enjoy this possibility offered by SonicStage. I myself have many recordings converted to Hi-LP, Hi-SP and LP2, I use whatever suits best for my purposes. And once the tracks have been converted, they remain in the SonicStage library, so you won't have to convert again.

[Avrin]

Don't forget about 105 kbit/s ATRAC3, which is not padded in Hi-MD mode, thus allowing you to put 20 hours and 40 minutes of very decently (cassette-like) sounding music on a single 1 Gb blank, or 6 hours and 10 minutes on a standard 80-minute blank (of course that won't be playable on legacy equipment). Very good for portable listening.

SonicStage does not officially support ripping directly to 105 kbit/s, but the solution is here: http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=15928

Edited November 21, 2007 by Avrin

[carlesraf]

My votes goes to......

On MD mode:

*for portable music or for Vinyl disc (or mp3 files with pour sound ) Lp4. Cause it seems that at this bitrate it removes the noise *for the rest Lp2 (or SP if you want to use this disc on non MDLP machines)

On HI-MD Mode:

*To back-up my CD, simply PCM (No compresion)

*For portable music....I use a mix of HI-LP or LP2 or LP4 on the same disc

*HI-SP sounds very good but I normaly I don't use it.

I must to admit that atrac3plus a 48kb sounds very decent on my walkman (MH-NHF800 and MZ-RH1) and on my Onkyo HI-MD.

But I only use it when I want to put a lot of tracks on a simple disc, i.e for vacations

[Sparky191]

...*for portable music or for Vinyl disc (or mp3 files with pour sound ) Lp4. Cause it seems that at this bitrate it removes the noise *for the rest Lp2 ...

It removes the noise AND the music, and if encoding something already compressed like MP3 it adds noise. IMO.

[timonoj]

I would recommend for normal music hearing while you do other stuff (bus, train), to use the Hi-LP (64kbps) mode, although I encode some special songs in higher bitrates...

[DerTapir]

For me, at this moment it's the good old ATRAC-SP, without any high or low....

because: I will have a car MD-radio in a few weeks (yeaaah !!) , and i have a non HI-MD hifi-deck too

so i can play the tapes where ever i want.

For my "Walk to work MDs" , I will use HI-SP.... realy good sound and high capacity.

for classic i use uncompressed HI-MD.

[minidix]

I don't want to upset the Atrac fans, but maybe the best compromise between sound quality and space is the 160 kb\s VBR bitrate, considered "transparent" even by some "golden ears" (192 Kb\s minimum for CBR). And, of course, it's MP3. Is's not a disadvantage, on the contrary, maybe some day you'll want that disk or track back on your computer and if that MD is the only copy you kept of your music, you may spare the quality loss or effort of transcoding or playing digitally and re-encoding it for another player.

By the way, can someone tell me, which Lame should I choose to encode mp3s at 160 kb\s VBR ?

Sorry, the question should sound "which Lame setting should I choose..."

[DerTapir]

I bought a non MD car radio but added the Connects2 adapter kit which has a Sony remote port to CD/MD changer port interface, so Hi-MD's are played back in the car

Gratulation: Interesting to hear about it. What about the MZ-NH1 ? is it also a third generation device ??

And Onkyo has provided me with numerous Hi-MD components, so going Hi-MD all the way is possible.

A status to die for

Maybe next year i will spend some money in new gear.... for now i have to save money for the tenancy changeover.

[timonoj]

I don't want to upset the Atrac fans, but maybe the best compromise between sound quality and space is the 160 kb\s VBR bitrate, considered "transparent" even by some "golden ears" (192 Kb\s minimum for CBR). And, of course, it's MP3. Is's not a disadvantage, on the contrary, maybe some day you'll want that disk or track back on your computer and if that MD is the only copy you kept of your music, you may spare the quality loss or effort of transcoding or playing digitally and re-encoding it for another player.

By the way, can someone tell me, which Lame should I choose to encode mp3s at 160 kb\s VBR ?

Sorry, the question should sound "which Lame setting should I choose..."

Sorry to disagree...But mp3 is quite an old format (back to the 92 or so, huh?). While atrac3plus is quite a much recent codec. It takes advantage of all the new studies done during all these years around the hearing capacities of the people. Sorry, but you are comparing an outdated codec (which, for some weird reason, and although it's a private codec, it's still being used) with a new generation one. So, definitely, if you compare a 160VBR mp3 with a 160CBR atrac3plus... Ain't much to do, is it? Anyway, if you don't like the atrac3plus codec, maybe you'll find that the mp4 or the HE-AAC both achieve an impressive audio quality with a relative low bandwith usage. Or, if you prefer open source, maybe you can choose ogg, which achieves, as well, a much better quality than the good old mp3.

Edited November 23, 2007 by timonoj

[Sparky191]

What about the ongoing LAME development. http://lame.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*...ml/history.html

Its debatable if the vast majority of people can hear any difference between different codecs at high bitrates. There may be a difference at low and very low bitrates, but thats an argument of which sounds least bad IMO.

[DerTapir]

nobody can tell me, that those loudness junkies out there are able to here even the different between 64 and 356kbit...

What i mean: for my opinion, round about 80% of all mobile audioplayers are driving substandard earbuds. With 16 ohm or less, they are compensating the insufficient output power of most european audioplayers.

So:

Loudness: Great

Soundquality:Weak

so with good headphones and musik at 128kbit, you will always get a better sound than with 16 Ohm junk at 356kbit

Edited November 27, 2007 by DerTapir

[Sparky191]

There are bad earphones/headphones with more than 16 ohm. So thats no guarantee of quality. I thought the idea behind low impedance earphones is to maximize battery life. You could argue that if you serious about sound quality you'd be using a line out and a dedicated headphone amp anyway.

Edited November 28, 2007 by Sparky191

[DaveElson]

Thanks for all the input folks. Yes, I should experiment a little, but of course that's why we have forums - to ask opinions.

Everything I put on md will be from cd, and it's really just for use on my walkman md (in the gym/walking the dogs) or in the aux input of the car (more rarely).

So mp3 like sound is acceptable to me. I do have a home md unit but don't use it now.

So as I said, I just want to fill up some of the older md's and get a decent amount on them, but with reasonably good quality.

Unless I missed it, Sonicstage doesn't seem to give any suggestions. I'll make some comparisons anyway.

All the best.