tiggerlou Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Hello!I'm just about to get a MZ-M200, and realizing that it really does deserve a good mic to go with it. But until I started Googling about it...ohhh... roughly an hour ago, I knew nothing whatsoever about microphones. So I really need some advice.I will be recording mostly solo a capella female vocals, with a very wide range of pitch, timbres and styles, so it needs to pick up subtlety and details. It also needs to be less than $200, preferably much less. There are so very many mics out there, and I need help sorting them out.Also, wondering if any regular studio mic would work with the MZ-M200. Would I need adaptors or anything like that to hook it up?thanks much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenbreast Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 (edited) Hello!I'm just about to get a MZ-M200, and realizing that it really does deserve a good mic to go with it. But until I started Googling about it...ohhh... roughly an hour ago, I knew nothing whatsoever about microphones. So I really need some advice.I will be recording mostly solo a capella female vocals, with a very wide range of pitch, timbres and styles, so it needs to pick up subtlety and details. It also needs to be less than $200, preferably much less. There are so very many mics out there, and I need help sorting them out.Also, wondering if any regular studio mic would work with the MZ-M200. Would I need adaptors or anything like that to hook it up?thanks much!im new to taping and after posting a request for advice on mics i was inundated with praise for church audio mics. you can get the cardiod mics from him on ebay for $109.99 plus shippingchris (church audio) has a few deals on mics and preamps but if your just after the mics you could pm him at taperssection and he will be able to give you pricing info. might i also add that he is a great seller!, great communication and customer service!http://stores.ebay.co.uk/CHURCH-AUDIO_W0QQ...sQ3amesstQQtZkm (ebay listings)ive just put my recording of aynsley lister on dime if you fancy hearing what they sound likeAlex Edited December 16, 2007 by goldenbreast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 (edited) The input on the minidisc is a stereo minijack. It's made to work with an electret condenser mic that runs on plug-in power, just a few volts, 1.5. Studio mics usually have XLR connectors, which are different. They may also be dynamic rather than condenser microphones. And they may run on Phantom Power, a separate power supply which is very different from plug-in power--45 volts. So you really have to see what kind of studio microphone you're dealing with. A good place to learn about this is under the Microphone University tab at this site: http://www.dpamicrophones.com/ You don't have to read it all at once, but it's not too technical. Tiggerlou and Goldenbreast are trying to do different things. Goldenbreast needs small, concealable stereo mics. I have some old Church Audio mics, and they are very good and solid. I prefer omnidirectional mics to cardioid (directional) mics at concerts, because the recordings I have made iwth cardioids sometimes sound like there's a weird void behind you. But lots of people like cardioids precisely because they do shut out some audience noise from behind you. And those Church Audio cardioids do have full bass response, unlike some cheaper cardioids, so they'd definitely be worth a try for concert taping. Tiggerlou, it sounds like what you need is a good mono cardioid vocal mic that's compatible with minidisc. Special mics are made for singers--some of them astonishingly expensive, but you can also get good value. Your best bet would be to go to a pro musician's store, bring along the MZ-M200 and talk to them about what would work best with it. Maybe you could even make some sample recordings on the spot. You could also call a mail-order place like Musician's Friend, ZZZounds, Guitar Center or Sam Ash and tell them the input is a stereo minijack with plug-in power. Sound Professionals, which sells MDs and is very familiar with them, has a pretty good selection of non-stealthy microphones, but the pro musicians' stores will have more. Guitarfxr, who has worked in recording studios, loves the Audio-Technica AT822 with his MD. A lot of people also swear by the Rode NT1A, which is around $200. It's an XLR mic, so it would need an adapter and power. Here's more info:http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showt...mp;#entry129453 Edited December 17, 2007 by A440 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiggerlou Posted December 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Thanks!I am surprised to hear you recommend a mono mic. I'm a real novice at recording, so this may be a dumb question --but aren't mono mics necessarily worse than stereo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 It depends on what you're recording. Stereo is good for giving a sense of space: separating instruments in an ensemble, placing a sound in an illusory space. But you, as a singer, are a mono source, and if you want to maximize the quality of your microphone, why pay for the two elements of a stereo microphone when you can get one that's much better? If you've used studio mics, they may well be mono. A mono recording, if you're listening through headphones, will be in the middle of your head. For a sense of depth, a recording engineer would probably add some reverb. A stereo recording will have a little more depth to start with (even from one source). So you could, if you wanted, get what's called a one-point stereo mic: two microphone elements mounted in one mic. (That's what the DS70P that comes with the M200 is, though it's not a particularly good one.) But when Mariah Carey makes an album or performs, she's singing into a mono mic. Seriously, if you're anywhere near a music store, go there and just try a bunch of mics when you get the new recorder. Singers are very particular about microphones--you'll hear nuances that no one else would notice on playback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiggerlou Posted December 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Great, that makes sense.I really do appreciate all the generous help I've been getting here.thanks guys!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmachine Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 (edited) Do you want to record voice + ambience (room reverberations, etc., more like from the listener's perspective, distant miking with a stereo set) or just the voice alone (very dry and direct, close miking with a single mono mic, and add effects in post processing if necessary)? Live and studio recordings may require different setups. Edited December 17, 2007 by greenmachine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiggerlou Posted December 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Do you want to record voice + ambience (room reverberations, etc., more like from the listener's perspective, distant miking with a stereo set) or just the voice alone (very dry and direct, close miking with a single mono mic, and add effects in post processing if necessary)? Live and studio recordings may require different setups.Hmmm.. Probably the latter for a number of reasons. For one thing my recording space, such as it is, is extremely dry, and it's in a solid old house. Floor to ceiling bookshelves on most of the walls (how's that for soundproofing?) and double carpeting. My voice students occasionally complain that they don't sound as "impressive" here. But we can - hear - every - detail of what they're doing. Likewise when I'm rehearsing my own music, I can manicure all the little detail of the sound, as much as my anal heart desires, LOL. Suits me fine! My one big problem with soundproofing is a set of floor to ceiling windows facing a street with heavy traffic. I gotta come up with some sort of removable curtain thing, something to block out that sound. Has to be removable because the sunlight coming through into my office is truly a thing of beauty --and my plants certainly enjoy it. So soundproofing the windows --that's another project, but OT for now.So. Dry room. Check.The second reason that occurs to me when you ask if I'd rather be close mic'd is that I really do treasure those details that I craft into the music, and my impression --not based on any recording expertise, just a guess-- is that the further the mic, the less of those details would be picked up. As far as I'm concerned when I sing in a spacious place, that's all about connecting with an audience --or with the lake, the trees, the mountains. I open it up and sing for the big spaces and that feels fabulous, like embracing the world. But recording, now to me, that's a whole other beast. That's all about the quiet delicate experience of finding the sweet spot, the precisely perfect take when you know you've nailed it. That to me feels really small and close-mic'd.I realize now looking over what I just wrote --I've been answering your question not as a recording engineer, but as a musician, performer, artist. You probably are all rolling your eyes, remembering all the wackos who've come through your studio, all the Artistes who had to "feel" it before they'd ever be satisfied, LOL.Well that's what I am I guess, a musician --and just beginning to learn about recording.I just looked over your post, Greenmachine, and saw that you've already figured out precisely what my issue is, although I had to go through a whole lot of tralala to get there. Yup. I'm talking *studio* recording, instead of live. Duh! thanks guys!Tig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmachine Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 What you're looking for is probably a medium or large diaphragm condenser cardioid mono studio mic. Most of these require phantom power (~48V) and come with XLR plugs, so you would need an external power supply as well as adapters to use it with a MD recorder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiggerlou Posted December 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Okeydoke. Can you give me some more details about the power supply and adaptors you're talking about?Tig(totally off-topic here, about fun times with the acoustics of a "room")I once did a concert in Wisconsin in a lovely big room with fabulous acoustics, really sweet. One day in preparation for the concert, I was rehearsing outside the building and discovered that when I aimed it right, the sound bounced off some nearby mountains in a truly astonishing way, like nothing I'd ever heard before. We decided to do part of the concert with me singing outside, the audience inside, and all the windows and doors wide open. Wow............ what a sound!Another time I wrote a site specific music piece, basically a sonic portrait of Links Hall, a well-loved performance space in Chicago. After going around once and "singing" all the walls, I did a diagonal cross from downstage left (close to the audience), backing up on a diagonal toward upstage right. As I did that, I sang a sort of "Bulgarian Women's Choir singing sea chanteys" kind of thing. The more I backed up, the more of the room's reverb kicked in, and the more it sounded like more and more voices were joining in. Instant choir effect ! Whoohoooo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Along with a mic like the Rode NT1A you'd also need what's called a Phantom Power supply--about $20-$50. Just Google "Pnantom power" 48v . And you'd need a cable to connect the mic or power supply's XLR output to the stereo minijack input of the MD recorder. If there's a musicians' or pro-audio store near you, that would be the best way to make sure all three are compatible. Or call an 800 number for Musician's Friend, Sweetwater or Zzzounds. Love the invisible choir effect. Glottal stops, too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strungup Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 well actually a Small mixer would be just as cheap an connect the MD to it Line in , would give much better control Tapco ( Mackie ) has a nice small mixer with Phantom power , and would give tonal control over the mic , because of the EQ on board , in a DRY room like that the Treble range might be a little piercing , so dropping the highs just a little would be nice , having the tone controls can make a very big difference in the way a room sounds . A lot of the new big diaphragm condensers have an extended high range ability , and the mic pre on the MD will take whatever they put out (it is just that good) so having a little Tone control is Very nice , and very desirable . # 1 With a Mixer , you then have the ability to add music background to the Vocals , a big plus when working with students, just hook the CD, MP3, MD, whatever player to the Line input on the mixer , the Mic to the Mic channel , blend the levels so it sounds good , the Line out of the mixer goes to the MD , put on your headphones and do your thing you superstar you . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiggerlou Posted December 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 well actually a Small mixer would be just as cheap an connect the MD to it Line in , would give much better control With a Mixer , you then have the ability to add music background to the Vocals --------------Ooooooooohhh I like it!! Very nice indeed :-D So I could add a MIDI keyboard into the mix, yes? Or other pre-recorded tracks, like doubled-up vocals? Whoohoo!I know, I know. This probably sounds totally obvious to you high-tech folks, like a big DUH. But to a solo a capella singer, WOW! This opens up alllll sorts of possibilities. We're talking instant choir. And I wouldn't have to use the acoustics of Links Hall --or nearby mountains either, LOL.Tig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strungup Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Hey Tigger , klik this http://www.fullcompass.com/product/324917.html The price is right NO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiggerlou Posted December 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 sweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.