need FAST turnaround on recording results

[tiggerlou]

Hello!

Just got great help on another portion of the forum (thanks!!), and now I have another question that requires your seasoned expertise and creative problem solving. The proper solution will probably involve some non-MD technology, somewhere in the mix.

I'm a voice teacher, among other things, and I've been recording the lessons for my students on a cassette tape recorder for years. I know --how "twentieth century" of me.... They need to take these tapes home to get started right away on practicing, especially when they're fresh from the lesson.

The reason I'm still doing it that way, is that I can push a button at the beginning of the hour and just hand them the recording as soon as that hour is done. Done. Finis. End of story. They only pay me for the music lesson, and will not sit around for additional dubbing time. Usually there's another student waiting as soon as that one is done. I need immediate turnaround and cassettes give me that.

At least they used to. I just got a call from a student who let me know that my cassette recorder gave her yet another bad recording, and this time I'd put in fresh batteries. So apparently it's dying and I'm not buying another cassette recorder. I need a new way to do this. I know that there are CD recorders out there, but as I understand they are about $250 and I just do not have the dineros. If they all had digital voice recorders then we'd be fine, but only a couple of them do. Of course I've got my RH1, but ...sigh...they don't have MD players. I can't just send them to their local Best Buy to pick up blank MD media. Wouldn't that be sweet?

So what I'm asking you seasoned recording folks is, what would be the swiftest, easiest, most efficient (and cheapest) way to do this? I could record them on my RH1, upload that through SS, remove copy protection, save it as WAV, convert it to mp3 and email it to them (assuming they have email, not all do believe it or not). If I do email it to them, there's the additional hassle of sending the email via webmail because Outlook won't let me send that big a file. Meanwhile, the time in all those steps would really add up --and I wouldn't get paid for a single minute of it

So I ask you, is there any MD (or other technology) method that would give me the same kind of quick turnaround as a cassette recorder? BTW, I do not need fancy audio quality. This is to record exercises and associated commentary, so all I need is the quality that digital voice recorders offer.

I already posted this question a while ago on a general recording forum, and they just gave me links to CD recorders. There's just got to be a better way............

[Ral-Clan]

I agree that there is a big hole existing for instantly usable, portable, transferrable & CHEAP recording media that cassette (and MD to a smaller extent) used to fill.

The only thing I can suggest is recording your practice live to a laptop's hard drive as an MP3, then at the end of the practice e-mail that MP3 to the student's address, or have them all bring USB memory sticks to take away the MP3.

I agree this is a pain in the arse over cassette, but that's the state of things right now. The MP3 wave might have made listening more convenient, but RECORDING has only become harder. There's no way to record with a stand-alone portable device, then instantly hand that recording to someone else to take away. MD was supposed to fill this void, but it didn't quite catch on.

There might be flash card based recorders with removable media, but I don't think you want to be handing flash cards out at the end of every practice like you did cassettes.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Ral-Clan

[raintheory]

There are free services online such as mailbigfile and drop.io that allow you to send large (up to 100MB) files via email.

[tiggerlou]

thanks!

I didn't want to assume that I had already exhausted all possibilities, especially since I'm still a novice when it comes to recording. But if you say that there isn't any easier way, then I guess now I'll believe it. Oh well...

Seems to me this is yet another example of how audio technology is becoming more and more about big recording companies, taking away yet more control from the little people --artists as well as consumers. The more technology develops, the more strictures I'm seeing in how that technology can be used. Last fall I finally succumbed and bought an iPod, naively thinking that the latest model would give me the most features and options. Wrong! Each successive "upgrade" only puts further locks on personal use, and not only in iTunes-land. Case in point is having to remove Sony's DRM when uploading original music recorded on my RH1. This is a corporation restricting my use of *my own music*. That's just so WRONG!!

Whew. Rant over.

BTW, thanks for the lead on how to send large files by email. I really appreciate it.

[Strungup]

thanks!

I didn't want to assume that I had already exhausted all possibilities, especially since I'm still a novice when it comes to recording. But if you say that there isn't any easier way, then I guess now I'll believe it. Oh well...

Seems to me this is yet another example of how audio technology is becoming more and more about big recording companies, taking away yet more control from the little people --artists as well as consumers. The more technology develops, the more strictures I'm seeing in how that technology can be used. Last fall I finally succumbed and bought an iPod, naively thinking that the latest model would give me the most features and options. Wrong! Each successive "upgrade" only puts further locks on personal use, and not only in iTunes-land. Case in point is having to remove Sony's DRM when uploading original music recorded on my RH1. This is a corporation restricting my use of *my own music*. That's just so WRONG!!

Whew. Rant over.

BTW, thanks for the lead on how to send large files by email. I really appreciate it.

Hey Tig how are ya .

Zoom H2 records in MP3 all the way down to 24kbs which means REALLY small file size ( not great quality but....... ) intsant upload so you can email it .

I can record a sample and send it to you if you wish to hear it . it can also be used as a USB mic to record directly on the computer .

Where have you Been? busy girl huh ?

[tiggerlou]

Heyyyy!! How you doing? Busy yes, indeed. Digging my way through that huge to-do list, one tectonic plate at a time (or should say, tech-tonic plate?

re: the Zoom H2 --well if I had the money burning in my pocket, sure y'bet....

[bobt]

got a cheap sandisk for my wife, has a mic for voice, don't know the quality, may work for you.

SU thought MD's were too complicated, oh well!!

Bob

[tiggerlou]

Not too complicated or difficult, just time consuming.

The fact is, anything that takes more time than just handing them the portable media at the end of the lesson, would be too time-consuming --because it would take time away from their lesson. They're not paying me to fiddle with technology, they paying for a music lesson. That's why I'm looking to simplify the process.

Thanks for all your help, guys!

[Strungup]

Asper previous suggestions about recording to hardrive , I decided to actually test the Zoom as a USB Mic , Now you guys have heard me complain about the recording quality on the ZOOM except at its highest bit rates

well , I recorded into Audacity using it as a USB mic ( Yes Audacity recognized it , have to go into Preferences to select it though) and I set the Zooms freq at 44.1

You can adjust the Levels directly from the zoom , as well as Audacity , so getting levels was no problem at all , secondly it records in Stereo or Mono , a choice you DO NOT GET , with USB mics , I have goood levels , and actually good quality sound , later today or tommorrow I will sit down and do something then post it . I was quite surprised at what it gave me . I might actually have to reevalueate my opinion of this thing......................

[ratbagradio]

I hate the complicated time lag with recording live to a MD so I haver adopted this workaround.

I record my audio on my HiMD then plug it into a Griffin iMic to record on my comp-uter with Audacity. After editing, I convert that to Mp3 format and post/publish.

Another option would be to record to the MD player while plugged into the iMic and recording direct to Audacity.

If thats' too complicated to you -- use Mp3Direct Cut and record on your pc direct top Mp3 format at your preferred comprerssion even via the MD reiorder as above

http://mpesch3.de1.cc/mp3dc.html

I suggest using the MD recorder because you'll great a quality recording with automatic gain.

If that wasn't so much of an issue -- you can record to a standard mp3 player recorder with a plug uin microphone using this attachment and see how it works.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/LINE-IN-MICROPHONE-...1QQcmdZViewItem

[ozpeter]

I'm not sure how cost-effective the H2 is as an audio interface - I guess you have to take into account that it's got the mics built in - anyway, recording direct to a laptop then doing a quick drag and drop to CD burning software might be the go - hand them a CD 5 minutes later, either an audio one or an mp3 data one. That assumes you have a laptop. Of course you could untie the H2 from the PC and after recording, pop its card into the presumed SD card slot on the presumed laptop, and burn the CD from that.

Edited February 20, 2008 by ozpeter

[Strungup]

Well a follow up on the Zoom after playing with it for an hour or so in USB mode , .............. I think I am gonna sell it , and get the Tascam DR-1

I just downloaded the manual and sound samples . The High freqs , and separation just aren't there in the Zoom , at least not from my standpoint , Usefull , and fast , but I want a little more than what it gives me .

[A440]

If you were to get a flash recorder--I look forward to guitarfxr's report on the Tascam--each student could bring her own flash card, record to it, take it home and put it on her computer. (USB card readers are less than $10 if they don't already have a flash device like a camera or phone.) That would be your instant turnaround.

I have a Sansa e260 and the built-in mic recording is dreadful--has a whining sound you can't get rid of.

Some old iRiver flash players that you can find on eBay for $50 or less--the IFP-7xx series and the T30 are ones I've used--have built-in microphones to record in mp3. I've used a T30 for interviews and I think it would give you enough fidelity. Gray/silver T30s are 512MB, while the red one is 1GB.

You'd have to drag-and-drop it to your computer and have the students bring a USB stick--not quite instant turnaround, but only about 3-5 minutes.

Or you could do it another way. There are a lot of free online "locker" services--you upload to them and send a link as an email. Among them are Megaupload, RapidShare, Savefile, Quicksharing, Sendspace and many, many more. At the end of the day you could take the mp3 recordings--from a T30, or converted from your RH1--and upload them and send email links to the students. (They're also very popular for bootlegging whole albums.)

Rapidshare and Megaupload, which seem to be the most popular, make the recipient wait 44 seconds to 1.6 minutes and put in a three or four-letter code before the download will go through (in order to sign you up for paid, faster services), and navigation is a little goofy, with the free links buried at the bottom of the page.

I like Quicksharing myself. http://s23.quicksharing.com/index.php

Edited February 20, 2008 by A440

[Ral-Clan]

All these replies just exemplify how much a pain in the arse recording has become since cassette was abandoned. Dragging, dropping, uploading, burning, transferring, connecting, bringing flash cards, transferring to a PC first, requiring students to bring along their own USB sticks....ALL things the original poster wanted to avoid (i.e. use up practice time, drag extra equipment around or use up "home time" getting the audio to the students).

Holy crap. We've actually gone BACKWARDS from the days when you could just record on a one dollar 90 minute tape, pop it out and instantly hand it to someone to take away.

So much for progress and so much for the digital media revolution.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Ral-Clan

[KJ_Palmer]

Sorry to be a meanie, but is there any reason the student's can't bring their own recorders to the class, be it tape, minidisc or flash recorder? I go to music classes and I don't expect the teacher to provide a recording. I'd do my own in that case, and don't think it unreasonable.

If you're stuck in the 'tape loop' then maybe it's best to bite the bullet and buy a cheap new tape recorder and have done with it.

[Strungup]

All these replies just exemplify how much a pain in the arse recording has become since cassette was abandoned. Dragging, dropping, uploading, burning, transferring, connecting, bringing flash cards, transferring to a PC first, requiring students to bring along their own USB sticks....ALL things the original poster wanted to avoid (i.e. use up practice time, drag extra equipment around or use up "home time" getting the audio to the students).

Holy crap. We've actually gone BACKWARDS from the days when you could just record on a one dollar 90 minute tape, pop it out and instantly hand it to someone to take away.

So much for progress and so much for the digital media revolution.

Amen!

[ratbagradio]

Technically speaking would this work? I know it's just a issue thats' been shared with us but "solving' it does make me wonder about work arounds more generally.

If I recorded the session on MD with a good plug in power mic and with the MD plugged into the mains electricity I assume I'd avail myself of all of the quality features of the MD. Lets; say too there was an OK microphone positioned just right on small stand for this purpose... not necessary but nice.

And , let's say the student wanted to have a recording of this session and they weren't paying me to do the IT stuff...

What's wrong with the student bringing their own mp3 player/recorder(so cheap they are too) and plugging it into the MD audio out to record the session? All you need is one short lead.

That way the MD would serve as a miniature recording/broadcast studio? No extra work for me and a quality product for the pupil.

In effect the student could bring whatever they'd prefer to hold the audio. and the process would be the same: record off the quality availed by the MD recording process while it was recording. That way no computer upload is needed and the shareable format is according to the pupil's own preference --and effort!

[ozpeter]

Yeah ,that should work.

But while having a general sympathy for the remarks about how cassettes were a whole lot easier, I'd suggest that if we were a little more familiar with using SD or SDHC cards, and then someone tried to get us to use cassettes instead, we'd laugh. For me, the SD card is rapidly becoming THE medium for many purposes - it goes in my H2, in my Panasonic hi-def camcorder, in my personal organiser, in my digital camera, in my laptop - and you only need a few, an assortment of capacities perhaps, and then you don't need any more. The data get transferred in seconds to a hard drive, or to a DVD or CD (takes a little longer of course) and they file away much more compactly than a cassette. Sorry, I've seen the future and it's SDHC-shaped!

[Strungup]

@440 , there will be a Tascam report forthcoming , I went to a store today WITH my Mics , AND Yamaha headphones

lets just say I will be selling some stuff real soon

gimme a week , I will write a good one for ya !

[tiggerlou]

Wow, THANKS for all the replies and suggestions! This is such a great forum.

I've been waiting for the flow to slow down a bit, in order to assemble my questions about all your ideas.

Ratbagradio:

You suggested I record on HiMD, then plug it into a Griffin iMic to record on my computer with Audacity (I'm assuming that Goldwave is an appropriate substititution, yes? --if not, let me know)

Does that mean I would be eliminating Sonic Stage from the process? that'd be nice.

What you're suggesting *sounds* like what I've done in the past with my old MZ-R-30 and a Griffn iMic. But uploading files that way has to be done in real time, compared with the quick upload via the RH1 and Sonic Stage. If I do it your way, do I sacrifice quick uploading time? Not really a time saver, then. Or am I misunderstanding you?

Here are some more suggestions that I need more explanation for. How would I do this? (idiot-proof directions, please!) :

1) record to the MD player while plugged into the iMic and recording direct to Audacity.

2) use Mp3Direct Cut and record on your pc direct to Mp3 format at your preferred comprerssion

even via the MD recorder

3) untie (sic?) the H2 from the PC and after recording, pop its card into the presumed SD card slot on the presumed laptop, and burn the CD from that.

4) each student brings their own mp3 player/recorder and plugging it into the MD audio out to record the session. All you need is one short lead.

I also need translation of some acronyms: what are SD or SDHC cards?

Definitely going to check out the online locker services for emailing large files. Thanks for that, and for all the other suggestions. I just need to understand some of them better, in order to know if they would work for me.

ciao,

Tig

Part deux: I accidentally hit too soon.

in method number 2 "use Mp3Direct Cut and record on your pc direct to Mp3 format at your preferred comprerssion", I particularly want to know how I would do that *via the MD recorder*.

thanks!

[Ral-Clan]

You suggested I record on HiMD, then plug it into a Griffin iMic to record on my computer with Audacity (I'm assuming that Goldwave is an appropriate substititution, yes? --if not, let me know)Part deux: I accidentally hit too soon.

4) each student brings their own mp3 player/recorder and plugging it into the MD audio out to record the session. All you need is one short lead.

in method number 2 "use Mp3Direct Cut and record on your pc direct to Mp3 format at your preferred comprerssion", I particularly want to know how I would do that *via the MD recorder*.

thanks!

I'm not sure why there's this emphasis on recording to your laptop *through* the MD-recorder? What would be the advantage of that? Just to use the MD's pre-amp? Seems a little clunky to me. Why not just use the laptop's MIC-IN? For recording simple vocal practices for references only, the quality should be fine. There are also stand-alone mic preamps if you want to connect a microphone to a LINE-IN on an MP3 player or laptop that doesn't have MIC-IN.

Edited February 22, 2008 by Ral-Clan

[tiggerlou]

I'm very interested to hear about that too.

I'm holding off on trying any of these suggestions until I understand them better

especially the suggestions that I don't understand at all, LOL ...

[Ral-Clan]

I'm very interested to hear about that too.

I'm holding off on trying any of these suggestions until I understand them better

especially the suggestions that I don't understand at all, LOL ...

I've given this some thought and I think there is a fairly easy solution - as long as your students can bring a USB memory stick with them (I just picked up a 512MB one for $10 at my grocery store!). It requires that you have a laptop with a USB port, of course, and a mic-in jack.

Use a recording program (like the free Audacity) to record in MP3 format straight to the student's USB stick. Mono, 128Kbps or even 98Kbps should be fine if all this is for is a reference recording.

At the end of the practice you close the recording, he/she pulls out the USB stick, and you're done. No transferring required. Just make sure they have enough space on their USB drive before you start the practice. If you use the settings I mentioned above, you should be able to get quite a few practices on the average memory stick.