SonicStage gets stuck at 95%

[johnny06]

Hello!

I recently had to reinstall windows and all it's programms. Unfortunately I also lost RealPlayer with it's NetMD plugin, which I used to transfer files to my MZ-N10. Since this plugin is neither supported nor anywhere available, I had to switch to SS. Now, whenever I'm trying to transfer a file, SS starts converting it and whilst apperently transferring it to my minidisc, always gets stuck at exactly 95%! I'm going crazy about this piece of junk! It seems to be attempting to transfer something, since the red recording light is flashing, but that's about it! It keeps transferring until it's running out of battery!

any help is appreciated

Edited August 4, 2008 by johnny06

[Avrin]

Which SS version are you using?

[THIS SUCKS]

make sure you upgrade to at least version 3.4

[Avrin]

4.2!!!

[johnny06]

sry, I was using both 3.4 & 4.3. What about 4.2? Any chance that version might work?

Edited August 6, 2008 by johnny06

[raintheory]

Numerous people here have experienced problems using 4.3 on operating systems other than Vista... And numerous people have had no problems at all with the same setup..

Worth a shot IMO. Try 4.2

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=17769

[Avrin]

The official links are dead. Some working links are here: http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?s=&am...st&p=117697

[johnny06]

thank you very much, I'll give it a try!

[orguss]

Hello!

I recently had to reinstall windows and all it's programms. Unfortunately I also lost RealPlayer with it's NetMD plugin, which I used to transfer files to my MZ-N10. Since this plugin is neither supported nor anywhere available, I had to switch to SS. Now, whenever I'm trying to transfer a file, SS starts converting it and whilst apperently transferring it to my minidisc, always gets stuck at exactly 95%! I'm going crazy about this piece of junk! It seems to be attempting to transfer something, since the red recording light is flashing, but that's about it! It keeps transferring until it's running out of battery!

any help is appreciated

I'm having the same problem with SS4.3, but mentioned in the new post, never had this problem beforehand. How's everything going with SS4.2 johnny06? Hope to hear from you soon. Cheers.

[johnny06]

I'm having the same problem with SS4.3, but mentioned in the new post, never had this problem beforehand. How's everything going with SS4.2 johnny06? Hope to hear from you soon. Cheers.

Tried 4.2 as well, the problem stayed the same. Didnt really find an easy solution to this strange problem (but maybe you will...?). Switched to an ipod ever since.

Edited September 19, 2008 by johnny06

[sfbp]

I don't think SS 4.2/4.3 is the issue. But undoing the most recent updates from Vista one by one (or going back to where it worked 1 month ago), and selectively installing all the security updates one at a time to see which one kills SS, might.

[orguss]

Its a waste to let go a working N1 since I paid a lot for it years ago. I even bought an extra remote, battery and a mic from eBay to enhance the usage. Maybe SS4.4 (Only in Jap) will resolve this issue down the road. Guess waiting is the only option I have right now.

[sfbp]

I don't think ANY version of SS is going to resolve this. The sooner you get to roll back the updates (remember you have a limited time to do it as Windows does a rolling strategy where new backups overwrite the old ones) the better.

The 95% sounds like the final step of encrypting the files or headers or whatever when the transfer has been made is failing.

I'm sure someone will say this doesn't make sense, but I would guess there is something in the certificate chain that had to be renewed.

What you MIGHT do is to see if TOC cloning (see raintheory's sig info) gets you the track you just sent. This would tend to confirm the idea that it's only some final header information is what is not getting written.

Another thing is to see if the NETMDUSB.SYS driver has been zapped (by the Vista upgrade install). I am not yet familiar enough with what the different components of the drivers do in communicating with NetMD devices.

[orguss]

Just did a search for NETMDUSB.SYS, and yes, the file is right there in the MD driver folder. Will get on with the rest of the test ASAP. Currently installing SS4.3 on Win98 virtual hard drive. I think this might resolve the SS issue on Vista. Will post the result later in the day.

[sfbp]

I just did a little quiet observation on the "95%" thing.

On a working NetMD, there are three stages:

a. the "conversion" which happens asynchronously - if you do a bunch of tracks, the later ones will get "converted" while the earlier ones are still being transferred

b. the transfer up to "95%". During this there is no obvious activity on the minidisc. Mind you I am not sure what happens with a very large file, maybe it happens in steps. What I think happens with a short track is that the whole thing gets buffered at the MD. I'm sure someone can tell us how much buffer memory there is. A 4 minute track at LP2 is only about 7MB, so there's lots of scope for odd behaviour if the MD cannot buffer the full 300MB, which I am sure on the earlier models it cannot.

c. Now SS says "95%" and in sequence on the device we see

"Saving"

"Edit" (I assume this refers to TOC edit, just like on a deck).

Once the "Edit" phase is complete, the transfer is done, and SS marks the screen as a full blue square for transferred track on the right hand pane of the display.

Interesting to know if it dies BEFORE or AFTER "Saving".

Stephen

PS what you might want to do is inspect the USB driver list to see if there is a NetMD device and if so, what drivers it is using. Try to compare with the same thing in XP, if you can, since under XP it is likely working correctly.

[orguss]

a. Correct, the file will be converted (100%) and transfered to the the MD and the indicator will show the progress in percentage.

b. The problem lies here. When the tranfer rate on SS shows 95%, it just hangs there, while the N1 recording indicator (red blinking light) keeps blinking, while the rest of the files will be converted till all reach 100%.

c. SS will not be able to transfer the file to the MD as long it stuck at 95%, and N1 will keep blinking for eternally (waited close to 2 hrs on the first file). After rebooting my pc (only way to terminate SS). The media will show a blank disc on the N1.

The whole process did not 'die' or show any error message (same goes for SS4.2). As stated in my previous thread, I have no problem recording using a mic or optical cable to do a transfer.

[sfbp]

So it's stopping without you ever seeing the word "Saving" on the N1?

Gotta be that Vista has taken it into its head to consider this device channel insecure.

Is there some sort of "secure device list" in Vista?

Did you get the "nasty" threat warning about Windows not working when you installed Sonic Stage in Vista about the device not being trusted by by Microsoft? Anyone who's ever put Widcomm's Bluetooth software (most commercially available BT for PC use it) will recognise this "feature".

Is there a way to make ALL Vista devices temporarily insecure (sacrilege!) to test the theory? For example, does SS work in Safe Mode? (I've no experience, and not as a solution, of course, just as something to try).

Time to start looking in the Microsoft support groups for information about security upgrades locking out devices.......

(added)

PS there's good news in all of this: it may help us figure out the strange mechanism SS has used for all these years to prevent certain data transfers involving particular DRM-ed files to/from particular devices, which no-one, not even Avrin (?!? maybe I am wrong) has been able to document with any degree of clarity.

I recall some comment about self-modifying code. I looked quickly on the web and it seems there are indications that "memory has been randomized" and that Symantec and McAfee got around this but are now locked out in some way. Could be Sony's application did rather the same thing. Time for Vista owners to start yelling at Sony, perhaps?

(added again)

Here's the link to how to uninstall SP1

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/948537

[sfbp]

Just did a search for NETMDUSB.SYS, and yes, the file is right there in the MD driver folder. Will get on with the rest of the test ASAP. Currently installing SS4.3 on Win98 virtual hard drive. I think this might resolve the SS issue on Vista. Will post the result later in the day.

Wait a second!!!!

On my machine the driver is always in two places, where you found it, and also in windows\system32\drivers

I bet that's what Microsoft did. Try seeing if it's even possible to put NETMDUSB.SYS into the windows system drivers directory (above).

Maybe they are preventing anyone from even putting the device driver there.

If one part of SS loads the copy in the "MD folder" as you describe it (yes I know where you mean) and another part goes and loads the one in windows\system32\drivers, this might explain the odd behaviour.

I might even try to reproduce this by removing it from Windows XP myself.

(added later) No luck, I haven't convinced Windows to lock me out of the directory. Maybe this is some fancy Vista feature. But it definitely is copying the driver from "MD folder" into windows\system32\drivers, and loading it from there, which you can see if you look at the properties of the NetMD driver in Device Manager. So you should see if there is ALSO a copy under Vista (possible vista even puts such drivers in a different place).

[orguss]

Sad to say, SS dun really work well on a virtual machine. As for the driver NETMDUSB.SYS, yes, it is all along inside the windows\system32\drivers folder.

Now trying to download OpenMg 2.2 to run under Compatibility Mode. Maybe this will just work out. FYI, my Vista is free from UAC mode, therefore I have more control on installed applications.

The torrent for OpenMg kind of lack of seeders, any suggestion where I could download it from? The original disc I have was long gone

Sony UK no longer host the application, the download page is now a dead link.

All these simply remind me of the song 'Help!' by the Beatles.

Edited September 21, 2008 by orguss

[sfbp]

Avrin mentioned something about SS using self-modifying code. I wonder if Vista SP1 is preventing this? I think you have no choice but to uninstall the service pack following the instructions (by Microsoft) I have posted the link to in this thread (2 posts up). Let's at least establish that SP1 is the culprit.

Then maybe we can find out exactly which update within that is at odds with SS. I think this is about the 4th or 5th report, and SP1 was released in July sometime, so far supports the idea.

BTW you are running as an administrator, I hope?

[Avrin]

Avrin mentioned something about SS using self-modifying code.

When and where (well, unless I was really drunk) have I done this? Or was it about SS43 creating new glitches just by running itself?

Edited September 21, 2008 by Avrin

[sfbp]

I thought it was when you were describing how the security is implemented. Maybe someone else. I'll try and find the reference.

[sfbp]

Can't find it. Maybe someone made a remark which led me to deduce that, when describing the efforts to protect their DRM. As you are the expert on (all) the details.....

Meanwhile I had another idea for the folks with Vista to consider. I recall Sony saying (and some people confirming) that Sonic Stage doesn't work well with anti-virus, because too much CPU bandwidth is taken by the scanning. I'm sure that this advice goes for all such scanners anyway.

Could it be that Microsoft's Malicious Software Removal Tool just got too big for its boots? I would expect some people with XP to be complaining, but you never know. Avrin and myself are obviously those who tend to resist updates......

Try removing the Software Removal Tool (if that's possible). I know that Symantec (for example) is so deeply embedded in a Windows PC that I had highly technical friends begging me to spend an hour to get rid of it when they had tried for 2 days and failed. It took some brutal steps, I can tell you.

Stephen

[Avrin]

Could it be that Microsoft's Malicious Software Removal Tool just got too big for its boots? I would expect some people with XP to be complaining, but you never know. Avrin and myself are obviously those who tend to resist updates......

Not quite. I am updating my Windows 2000 Professional system monthly.

And the MSRT isn't big at all (despite taking time during monthly updates and being really useless). It can't be uninstalled for the simple reason that it is never installed - Windows Update just downloads and runs it every month.