Best MiniDisc recorder for recording ambient sounds?

[samueldilworth]

Hello,

I'm a bit late to the party, but I'm considering a MiniDisc device for recording ambient sounds and other recordings in the field. The main reasons are:

1. I've seen measurements indicating that the mic preamps are significantly less noisy than most of the flash recorders available, excepting perhaps the Sony PCM-D50 (which is big, heavy, and expensive). Quiet preamps are necessary for recording ambient sounds, which are often quieter than live music.

2. MiniDisc recorders are small and therefore ideal for discreet recordings.

3. It would be nice to kill two birds with the one stone and get a portable audio playback device with good audio quality.

Things are made a bit trickier by the fact that I use a Mac. If I had a new Mac I could easily run Windows on it too, but my main computer is a PowerBook G4 running OS X 10.4 Tiger, with no real possibility of running Windows.

Obviously the MZ-RH1 is très sexy and the only model available new. Unfortunately it relies on a remote control for operation, and uses a proprietary lithium-ion battery. Lithium-ion batteries die after a few years, and the LIP-4WM will probably become unavailable before the device dies (I look after my things). I'd like the chance of getting a decade of life out of the recorder, so I'd love to be able to run it off NiMH AA cells.

So, here's a list of things that are important to me:

1. Linear PCM recording, with the possibility of losslessly transferring that to my Mac for unrestricted editing.

2. Excellent mic preamps (present on the MZ-RH1, not sure about the others).

3. Operation on AA batteries, preferably with the gumstick battery physically removed if possible (for recorders that support both a proprietary battery and an AA cell).

4. Ability to use all functions without a remote.

5. Availability in France (I live in Paris). New-in-box would be great but I'd accept used if it's in good condition.

Things that would be nice but aren't very important:

1. MP3 and/or linear PCM playback, using MP3/WAV files transferred from my Mac to the device.

2. A line-out port.

3. Line-in.

4. Recording in ATRAC-something-or-other, allowing me to record loads on one disc, then copy to my Mac in real-time by recording from the Mac's line-in. There's a big quality hit but it might be useful sometime.

Things that I have no need for:

1. Compatibility with old MD format discs and codecs (I've never owned a MiniDisc so this isn't an issue for me).

2. Any benefits which are Windows-only.

3. Super-long battery life for recording or playback.

4. Optical in/out.

I've probably missed something but this is already far too long. Any tips or pointers to get me started?

[bobt]

Hello,

I'm a bit late to the party, but I'm considering a MiniDisc device for recording ambient sounds and other recordings in the field. The main reasons are:

1. I've seen measurements indicating that the mic preamps are significantly less noisy than most of the flash recorders available, excepting perhaps the Sony PCM-D50 (which is big, heavy, and expensive). Quiet preamps are necessary for recording ambient sounds, which are often quieter than live music.

2. MiniDisc recorders are small and therefore ideal for discreet recordings.

3. It would be nice to kill two birds with the one stone and get a portable audio playback device with good audio quality.

Things are made a bit trickier by the fact that I use a Mac. If I had a new Mac I could easily run Windows on it too, but my main computer is a PowerBook G4 running OS X 10.4 Tiger, with no real possibility of running Windows.

Obviously the MZ-RH1 is très sexy and the only model available new. Unfortunately it relies on a remote control for operation, and uses a proprietary lithium-ion battery. Lithium-ion batteries die after a few years, and the LIP-4WM will probably become unavailable before the device dies (I look after my things). I'd like the chance of getting a decade of life out of the recorder, so I'd love to be able to run it off NiMH AA cells.

So, here's a list of things that are important to me:

1. Linear PCM recording, with the possibility of losslessly transferring that to my Mac for unrestricted editing.

2. Excellent mic preamps (present on the MZ-RH1, not sure about the others).

3. Operation on AA batteries, preferably with the gumstick battery physically removed if possible (for recorders that support both a proprietary battery and an AA cell).

4. Ability to use all functions without a remote.

5. Availability in France (I live in Paris). New-in-box would be great but I'd accept used if it's in good condition.

Things that would be nice but aren't very important:

1. MP3 and/or linear PCM playback, using MP3/WAV files transferred from my Mac to the device.

2. A line-out port.

3. Line-in.

4. Recording in ATRAC-something-or-other, allowing me to record loads on one disc, then copy to my Mac in real-time by recording from the Mac's line-in. There's a big quality hit but it might be useful sometime.

Things that I have no need for:

1. Compatibility with old MD format discs and codecs (I've never owned a MiniDisc so this isn't an issue for me).

2. Any benefits which are Windows-only.

3. Super-long battery life for recording or playback.

4. Optical in/out.

I've probably missed something but this is already far too long. Any tips or pointers to get me started?

You could try the early M series, I believe the M10 is a rebadged NH-910, and I think it comes Mac compatible.

Look in the equipement browser to be sure

Good luck

Bob

[sfbp]

There are very few devices that fit the bill if Mac compatible is a given. If you can run Windows on your Mac, then the NH700 is a very nice sensible choice that can record optical in, line in, and mic in, and upload all the above to PC. You can even do editing (adding track marks) on the unit before upload - saves a lot of hassle with bulky wave files later. The NH700 uses AA rechargeables quite nicely.

Above all, let me emphasise, do not even *think* of the RH1 as a player, nice as it may be, unless you buy 2 or 3 of them.

Welcome to MDCF!

Stephen

[pata2001]

Think about this first before jumping into HiMD. The HiMD software for Mac is PowerPC only, not universal binary. Although it should be fine for you now since you're using a G4, if you're planning to upgrade later, Snow Leopard will be intel only, and who knows whether Apple is still going to support Rosetta or not. Without Rosetta, you won't be able to run PPC apps anymore on intel Macs.

[Strungup]

Think about this first before jumping into HiMD. The HiMD software for Mac is PowerPC only, not universal binary. Although it should be fine for you now since you're using a G4, if you're planning to upgrade later, Snow Leopard will be intel only, and who knows whether Apple is still going to support Rosetta or not. Without Rosetta, you won't be able to run PPC apps anymore on intel Macs.

MD Transfer 2.0

System Requirements

Computer: Macintosh

Operating System: Mac OS X version 10.3.9 through 10.4

CPU: PowerPC G3, G4, G5, Intel Core (Duo/Solo)

RAM: 128MB or more

Hard disk drive space: 10MB or more

Other: USB port

Notes:

This software cannot be installed in Macintosh operating systems prior to Mac OS X version 10.3.9.

This software is not supported by the following environments:

Operating Systems other than those listed above.

An environment that is an upgrade of the original manufacturer-installed operating system.

Multi-boot environment.

Multi-monitor environment.

The supported Operating System languages are English, French, German, Italian, Espanol, Korean, Simplified Chinese and Traditional Chinese.

http://esupport.sony.com/perl/swu-download...amp;region_id=1

Macbook Pro Core2 Duo , Mac OSX 10.4.11 With all latest updates RH1 , Md transfer 2.0

Specialist in Audio Engineering , and Instrument repair ........ ANd I do Nature recording ( Use an AT822 for best results , take two aspirin call me in the morning

Wow , I am reading all these negatives , from Md Forum members ..who are supposed to be supporters of Md .

If you guys are soooooo down on MD , Why are you here on these forums ,..???????

I have a buttload of MD's ....... with massive amounts of stuff , catalouged and named , and the Joy of just using it and hearing really good sound while I am out and about

I brought a Page up for used Md's to help members or who wish to get into it ....... Not one of you has referred to my Garage Sale .... or Referred to Md in a positive way

Why are you here ?????????

This just isnt what this place is supposed to be .

Edited November 19, 2008 by Guitarfxr

[samueldilworth]

Thanks for the replies, all.

Above all, let me emphasise, do not even *think* of the RH1 as a player, nice as it may be, unless you buy 2 or 3 of them.

Why not? Is it known to be fragile?

The HiMD software for Mac is PowerPC only, not universal binary. Although it should be fine for you now since you're using a G4, if you're planning to upgrade later, Snow Leopard will be intel only, and who knows whether Apple is still going to support Rosetta or not. Without Rosetta, you won't be able to run PPC apps anymore on intel Macs.

According to Guitarfxr and Sony the software runs on Intel Macs. In any case, if I buy an Intel Mac (which I no doubt will at some point) I'll easily be able to run Windows. I'm also going to keep at least one PowerPC machine around for years to come, because I need it to run an obsolete film scanner (for photography).

Use an AT822 for best results , take two aspirin call me in the morning

A mic I'm seriously considering, actually.

I saw an MZ-RH1 for 350 euros in a shop window today, wondering if that's a fair price. It's a pretty expensive little device compared to a Zoom H2, but then again it has vastly better mic preamps.

It's surprising that Sony didn't concentrate more on Mac compatibility considering how many sound professionals and musicians use Macs. The restrictions on what you can do with recordings from MiniDiscs recorders are incredible considering that flash recorders, including Sony's, are simple drag-and-drop affairs using the Mass Storage Class protocol. However I think it might be worth my while to figure it all out and give MiniDisc a shot.

[Strungup]

The Preamps in the RH1 are top notch .... very clean , and for Ambient , you want as clean as you can get

That Combination AT822- RH1 , will surprise you dramatically . Just get a better Wind screen for the 822 ( VERY sensitive mic) I find that the old Furry Tube socks that girls like , Put over the Foam Screen that comes with the 822 works pretty good . ( Colorful TOO!)

also the XLR -> 1/8 stereo plug cable that comes with it is just a Tad short .

I make a longer one for my Preferences , or you can use a good quality head phone extender cable.

Fragile ,....... is a Yes Albumn . The RH1 is fairly solid , but doesnt feel like it,..... it is a very light machine , The issue is the Battery , the LIP4mn is not as common as the 14WM Gumstick battery that earlier MD's use , and can be found every where . The RH1 will recharge though from a USB Battery pack ,..... and will also RUN from one .

The Remote that comes with it is OK , but I prefer the 40 ELK remote with a 3 Line display , and Record Level Meters on board , PLUS you get a Scroll wheel that acts as Rec Level adjustment when in Recording mode , that way the RH1 can stay in a case untouched and locked down , and the Remote become Record Control .

Edited November 19, 2008 by Guitarfxr

[samueldilworth]

Good info.

It's the great preamps more than anything else that make me want a Hi-MD recorder rather than a flash device. From what I've read they give you lots of clean gain. You'd think by now there would be heavy competition from the flash recorder market, but nope, most of them have rubbish preamps (the Sony PCM-D50 is a notable exception, but it's large and heavy and expensive compared to MiniDisc).

Here are some of the comparisons that made me appreciate the preamps in Sony's Hi-MD offerings:

Sound Devices 722 v Sony MZ-NH900 v M-Audio MicroTrack

Sound Devices 722 v MZ-NH900

Very impressive.

The RH1 will recharge though from a USB Battery pack ,..... and will also RUN from one .

Do you know if it will run from USB power (supplied by computer or a battery pack) with the LIP-4WM battery (a) completely dead, ( removed from the unit?

[Strungup]

Yep it will , Willco , Cell phone power supplies mostly work , Also Solio Solar chargers work very well

I have a 4400 ma ( 4.4 amps @ 5 volts) USB Battery pack for longer recording sessions. Diatec/Filco Powerbank Slim

http://www.diatec.co.jp/en/det.php?prod_c=457

not all USB batt packs work though, it is pretty easy to make your own though

4 xAA's Batt holder , A USB connecter , 1x 8 ohm resistor , a 200 kohm resistor , and a 1amp diode

From Positive of the Batt pack to pin 1 the Diode

Pin 3&4 bridged with the 200 kohm

Negative batt terminal 8 ohm resistor , to Pin 4 of the USB . seal it all up and charge your RH1

The 200 k sends a very small signal voltage to the Charger in the RH1 to turn it on , when you connect the pack

You can also use Rechargables in the Batt pack

Edited November 20, 2008 by Guitarfxr

[pata2001]

According to Guitarfxr and Sony the software runs on Intel Macs. In any case, if I buy an Intel Mac (which I no doubt will at some point) I'll easily be able to run Windows. I'm also going to keep at least one PowerPC machine around for years to come, because I need it to run an obsolete film scanner (for photography).

Have you used the Mac MD transfer software? I have. The reason it still works now on intel Macs is because Tiger and Leopard have Rosetta to run PPC apps. The HiMD transfer program is a PPC app, not universal binary. If you actually read my comment, I'm commenting on Snow Leopard, which may not support PPC anymore (the beta versions are intel only), and who knows whether Apple would keep supporting Rosetta or not. If you read Guitarfxr copy & paste job, technically Sony doesn't even support the software on Leopard (only supported up to 10.4).

But hey, it's your money, and as long as you don't upgrade, you're fine. Just keep what I said in mind when you're buying a new intel Mac with Snow Leopard. Think if it's worth it spending that much money for something that may not even work on your next hardware/OS. Of course, I could be wrong, Apple might decide to keep supporting Rosetta. However, looking at recent Apple's decision to drop technologies like Firewire and the fact that beta version of Snow Leopard is intel only, I won't be surprised if Apple decide Rosetta is no longer needed since most programs are available in universal binary. Obviously you can run windows on intel Macs, but then Sony doesn't support Sonicstage anymore. Vista compatibility is a hit & miss, and Sonicstage is not even compatible with 64bit Vista. Let alone Windows 7.

Why are you here ?????????

This just isnt what this place is supposed to be .

Because I like to provide information, not misled people just to satisfy your fanboyism. Obviously you didn't even read my comment, since I was commenting on Snow Leopard & Rosetta, while you're copy & pasting irrelevant info. I didn't tell the OP not to get HiMD, I simply provide the information so the OP can make an educated decision whether to jump into the format or not. I myself still use HiMD too, for its purpose.

Edited November 20, 2008 by pata2001

[Strungup]

Pata , there are threads on this forum that testify , that MD Transfer does run on Leopard by just deactivating one component of it .

You are becoming a very negative person here , and you yourself have stopped supporting MD ........... By your own words .

So ...... why are you still here ????

this IS , the MINIDISC COMMUNITY Forums , not the MD BASHING forums .

If your Able to find a Cleaner Mic Preamp than what is in the RH1 , for less money ........ then Buy it . if not , ( which is what this guy is concerned about ) then leave the discussion .......

The S/N on the Marantz PMD 660 for the Mic input is only 60db , The S/N and Gain structure on the Tascam ( Which I Have INTIMATE knowledge of ) clocks in about the same . Zoom H2 mic input S/N is even less

etc ...........

The preamp that is in the RH1 clocks in at 100 db S/N ratio and with the right mics , you hear it .

The S/N of the AT822 is about 74 db , but it's sensitivity , allows for less gain usage , Less Gain , Less Noise ,

with the RH1 and the AT822 , S/N of the recording can reach a legitimate -82 DB

Which is better than almost anything out there under 1500 dollars

The mic and the RH1 will be about 560 total . Do the math

[pata2001]

Pata , there are threads on this forum that testify , that MD Transfer does run on Leopard by just deactivating one component of it .

You are becoming a very negative person here , and you yourself have stopped supporting MD ........... By your own words .

So ...... why are you still here ????

this IS , the MINIDISC COMMUNITY Forums , not the MD BASHING forums .

Do you even read your own post?

1. Who says HiMD transfer app not running on Leopard? Do you even read what I posted? I said it still runs on Tiger AND Leopard on intel Macs because both OS have Rosetta. I'm running it right now on my intel iMac with Leopard. Obviously if you're on PPC, there's no issue. Are you smoking something? I was discussing Snow Leopard, 10.6, not Leopard. Do you even know what you're talking about? I can see where you might be confused due to your raging fanboyism. Sony stated, as you have quoted yourself, that the software is only supported up to 10.4. That's it. Does it mean it won't run on Leopard? Obviously it runs just fine, as I use it myself. Nobody says otherwise.

2. Like I already said, I am still using HiMD, and even propose the OP to not having issue with HiMD on Mac if the OP doesn't have any plans to upgrade. The only negative thing is you, spouting nonsense unrelated to the discussion.

3. Yes, this is a minidisc community forum. Who's bashing MD in this thread? I was discussing the compatibility of the HiMD transfer software, and you jumped in spouting nonsense trying to flame me.

OMG, this is just too funny. Is this how the MD community has become?

I apologize to the OP for this. Obviously my point of discussing the software compatibility on Mac OS has been misunderstood by a fanboy. I can already guess what Guitarfxr will do. He will search some old posts that I made, do some cut & paste quoting, trying to paint me as an MD hater bashing MD, obviously not related to what we're discussing in this thread. Your cue Guitarfxr.

Edited November 20, 2008 by pata2001

[Strungup]

I apologize to the OP for this. Obviously my point of discussing the software compatibility on Mac OS has been misunderstood by a fanboy. I can already guess what Guitarfxr will do. He will search some old posts that I made, do some cut & paste quoting, trying to paint me as an MD hater bashing MD, obviously not related to what we're discussing in this thread. Your cue Guitarfxr.

#1 Not a Fanboy , just a user

#2 No Misunderstanng , If by your own words , " Cut and Paste from my posts " then , your out of line .

#3 " So, here's a list of things that are important to me:"

1. Linear PCM recording, with the possibility of losslessly transferring that to my Mac for unrestricted editing.

2. Excellent mic preamps (present on the MZ-RH1, not sure about the others).

3. Operation on AA batteries, preferably with the gumstick battery physically removed if possible (for recorders that support both a proprietary battery and an AA cell).

Basics of the request were Excellent mic pre's and PCM recording

you said

"Think about this first before jumping into HiMD. The HiMD software for Mac is PowerPC only, not universal binary."

My reply were specs , that is was in fact INTEL compatible

My comment about MD bashing is that here of late , anytime someone new to the board comes asking about MD everyone is steering them to Flash based recorders

and in general being a bit negative about MD

Pata your just seeking a debate, whatever dude . .........

If you have openly admitted , that by Cutting and Pasting from your own words that you would be made to look like an MD Basher ............

You think about it ...

Last post for me in this thread

HCB you can PM me if you want to carry the conversation further .

Hope you get the RH1 for a good deal , I just got another HiMD player myself today , Last one in stock at this store , so they gave me 50% off ( after some negotiation of course !!!)

Edited November 20, 2008 by Guitarfxr

[pata2001]

My reply were specs , that is was in fact INTEL compatible

It is NOT run under Rosetta , it is FULLY intel compliant . Version 1 was PPC , version 2 is an Intel app .

My comment about MD bashing is that here of late , anytime someone new to the board comes asking about MD everyone is steering them to Flash based recorders

and in general being a bit negative about MD

Oh really? Want some proof? If the program is intel app (not universal binary), then it won't even be compatible with PPC Macs and 10.3.

I was replying to the OP, and you're the one jumping in trying to discredit and bash me. Looks like you're the one who's looking for a debate. You haven't explained why you're reiterating that the software run on Leopard, which it does, and I never say it didn't.

And did I even talk about flash based recorder here? Ah, and you apologized to the OP, and yet went on and on bashing me.

Again, I simply want to provide information, a correct one, not misled people to satisfy self fanboyism to the point of stating incorrect info.

Edited November 20, 2008 by pata2001

[Strungup]

PPC accepted ,......... my bad under App info it does indeed say PPC , not on Sony's website though , just Intel Core 1 & 2 , as well as PPC "Self Fanboyism " " Misleading People" ............ you know yourself that is not why I am on these boards . and there are more references to my honesty and character from every transaction I have done , and the help I have given , the services I have provided . those two accusations are not worth answering . I wasn't trying to BASH anyone , the recent negativity on these boards every time someone new asks a question is not cool. example ( not yours but an example ) " Dont even THINk about getting an RH1 for a Player ,unless you get 2 or 3 " not just this post , but you look around on a LOT of the Posts from new people looking for MD , and the Flash recorder redirects instantly pop up . The whole reason I started " Guitar fxer's Garage sale" was to keep stuff available that would generally be in a WHOLE LOT better shape than Ebay everytime I read a new post of late, someone is saying " dont buy an MD " it is getting on my nerves . About Ambient Sounds .........

Edited November 20, 2008 by Guitarfxr

[pata2001]

I wasn't trying to BASH anyone , the recent negativity on these boards every time someone new asks a question is not cool.

example ( not yours but an example )

" Dont even THINk about getting an RH1 for a Player ,unless you get 2 or 3 "

As you said, the example you pointed out is not what I said, but then let's see what your reaction towards me, even to the point of asking me to leave:

Pata ,...

You are becoming a very negative person here , and you yourself have stopped supporting MD ........... By your own words .

So ...... why are you still here ????

this IS , the MINIDISC COMMUNITY Forums , not the MD BASHING forums .

But hey, like I said, I'm just giving out information, and try to provide a correct one if I read something that is incorrect, not injecting a thread with self promotion of personal garage sale

[Strungup]

Is it self promotion or MD Promotion ......

Considering I dont make enough money to justify it ( Time , Train Fare , Running around looking for stuff , Checking it all out to make sure of its condition before I post it , Taking a loss on what turns out Not to be of good shape , because I DONT post it . Then Providing Shipping services that are insured and garaunteed, with complete tracking info and proper packaging , bubble wrap etc .)

If I wanted to Self promote anything it would be My Business , not my hobby.

What is funny Pata , is who I actually am in relation to all this . and why I am spending my time on these boards myself .

So ,........hmm , ok the MD Forums really are a waste of time then aren't they .....?

I have some major repair work to get done , A vintage Gilchrist mandolin that needs my attention ( 8,000 dollar mando) , I have a Vintage Guild Archtop on the bench now with Fingerboard problems ( Have to remove the finger board and fix a different repairmans bad work )

A 1968 Gibson J160 John Lennon Model) that is in need of COMPLETE rebuilding , including the Real tortise shell bindings and The inlay work is all damaged ( yes I can fix it , wont even know anything was ever wrong with it )

2 Les Paul Customs , that will get inlay and fret work .

A custom build I am doing for someone Start style , with a fully inlayed fingerboard

A 1960's Yairi Acoustic that I am rebuilding ( One of the First Yairi's made actually quite rare )

let's see ,.......... self promotion ........

I could go on about the Musicians that come to me for repair , but that wouldnt be cool with them , or about the people I have played with and for .Or The ..... oh well

Your right , ........ I should just close the Garage sale , I can keep all the MD stuff for myself . The best of it to !! because Japanese people Really take good care of their stuff , A lot of what ends up in the Used bin is practically new condition, I dont post it if it isnt ...........

See ya , this is done . I am not interested in going on with this anymore , I really do have better things to do .

Bye guys .

[sfbp]

Wow, I didn't think you would take my little comment about RH1 as "negativity". The same observation has been made over and over again - the jog lever wears out and generates glitches, after about a year. My error was to even consider this as a player - it is so valuable as a recorder and uploader that I almost wore it out before realising I was about to fall down the same hole as others.