MDS-JA333ES - owner information

[gerchy]

Hi all.

I`m aware this question might sound a little weird but I have been a satisfied MD user for a long time and altough I`m paying my components a lot of attention I have never in many years of usage noticed clicking coming out from my JA333ES when turning the power on. And since I`m almost positive that this clicking wasn`t there before I`m asking the owners about this.

So, here`s the procedure with my device:

First click is audible when you power the device. Of that I`m aware of.

After that there are two more clicks, right one next to another. Normal too.

Then within 6 or 7 seconds the sign "No disc" appears and two or three short clicks are audible at the same time.

What's with the clicking in your cases?

By the way, sometimes I'm thinking about replacing the 333ES with the 555ES. Any first hand experience? I`m aware that the 555 is build more solidly as it weights 5 kilos more than the 333. Have there been any sound comparisons made?

Thanks!

[freddyjollo]

dont know about the problem, but I think the 555ES is standard play only. So if you use LP then no.

[philippeb]

My JA333ES recently started clicking on power-on also.

The *20 family of Sony MD decks were better built, IMHO. I would recommend any of the MDS-SD1, MDS-JE520, MDS-W1, MDS-JB920QS, or MDS-JA20ES.

[gerchy]

My JA333ES recently started clicking on power-on also.

Yeah? 5 or 6 clicks? When did it start?

I might record a video for better understanding.

[philippeb]

Yeah? 5 or 6 clicks? When did it start?

I might record a video for better understanding.

Exactly like yours.

[sfbp]

Just a word (or three) here - I am the owner of an Onkyo TX-SR605, one of the first competitively priced amplifiers to have HDMI and digital input, generally, marketed starting in about 2006.

I read up extensively on this before buying a second hand one, since the more current models actually had less connectors and features that I wanted (and also people were dumping them, so I got it "for a song"). One of the faults that many people complained of were these relay-clicking noises (which is what I believe you may be experiencing). Typically this noise corresponds to a digital circuit switching in (or out), with concomitant delay when you change from one source to another. There were actually some fixes made to the firmware of the Onyko (which I duly downloaded) and which were reputed to decrease the number of clicks.

In general, I believe such noises are pretty harmless. It's possible there is adjustment to be made. It's also possible that it's something to do with the source that you both hooked them up to. Increasingly people are using digital sources that they didn't have before.

As to replacement (if something is terminally wrong anyway), I sort of agree with Philippe. The distinguishing mark of many of these high end decks was the quality of the Digital-to-Analogue circuits. Once you have an amplifier with digital IN, as the digital OUT comes straight off the DSP chip of the MD deck (check the schematic!), the extra money for these high-end units becomes money basically wasted (though I am sure there are some other benefits and you will tell me what they are). Digital signals don't pick up noise, is one reason for preferring any digital connection to analogue. I even compared the sounds made by one deck that has Type-S and one with Type-R for playback on the same MD (since Type-S is a playback enhancement technology) and concluded that, using digital OUT from the deck, there's little or no difference. This fits with Philippe's comment about the 520 being a quite acceptable deck.

Jim Hoggarth may care to comment, as he probably knows exactly what these clicks are. I might wonder if there's dust in/around the optical transceivers, but I expect he will have a good explanation of why you get several clicks.

Hope this helps.

Stephen

[gerchy]

Exactly like yours.

And it just started out of nowhere? No changes have been made?

Here is the video I promised:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcOG0emO2Ko

In general, I believe such noises are pretty harmless. It's possible there is adjustment to be made. It's also possible that it's something to do with the source that you both hooked them up to. Increasingly people are using digital sources that they didn't have before.

Thank you too for the input. In the matter of fact, I recently did use the coaxial input which has probably never beed used before. Maybe the clicking occured at that event. I didn't change anything else except buying (and programming) the Harmony universal remote.

However, I tried to disconnect some digital sources but there was no change at all.

As to replacement (if something is terminally wrong anyway), I sort of agree with Philippe. The distinguishing mark of many of these high end decks was the quality of the Digital-to-Analogue circuits. Once you have an amplifier with digital IN, as the digital OUT comes straight off the DSP chip of the MD deck (check the schematic!), the extra money for these high-end units becomes money basically wasted (though I am sure there are some other benefits and you will tell me what they are).

My primary preamp is pure analog so the quality analog section makes sense. I'm also using the deck as a DAC so there's another reason for keeping up with the hiend standards.

I'm hoping too Jim Hoggarth will comment this thread!

[sfbp]

In the matter of fact, I recently did use the coaxial input which has probably never beed used before. Maybe the clicking occured at that event. I didn't change anything else except buying (and programming) the Harmony universal remote.

It's quite possible that Harmony does some funny stuff. Particularly if it routinely TURNS ON (even if already on, so ON-OFF-ON) the coaxial output from the source you use, might explain the triple clicking noises (at the end).

I have definitely seen more weirdness with Coax than I have with optical. Jim explained to me (privately) only yesterday that the circuitry to drive the Coax (a transformer, I believe) requires some logic (that has to be chained in series) to drive from the lower level signals generated by most CMOS components on a deck. This could easily be related, IMHO. You might try working without the Harmony remote for a few days, too.

Stephen

[philippeb]

And it just started out of nowhere? No changes have been made?

I recently added an optical link from the 333 to the W1, and used it.

I recently recorded from my internet freebox to the 333, via coax.

Pity that those two events occurred more or less at the same time...

[sfbp]

I recently added an optical link from the 333 to the W1, and used it.

Hmm, is one or the other considered to be "PRO"? Because SCMS should be preventing this connection.

I recently recorded from my internet freebox to the 333, via coax.

THAT sounds like what you have in common with OP.

S

[philippeb]

Hmm, is one or the other considered to be "PRO"? Because SCMS should be preventing this connection.

Not for first gen analog tracks, I think. I am not 100% sure, though; I have removed the 333 -> W1 optical link, since then.

[gerchy]

It's quite possible that Harmony does some funny stuff. Particularly if it routinely TURNS ON (even if already on, so ON-OFF-ON) the coaxial output from the source you use, might explain the triple clicking noises (at the end).

Yeah, I was kind of suspecting this too but I haven't been using Harmony for several days now. The video was recorded with the original remote control and the clicking is there for almost a week. The Harmony was used with other devices while the MD deck was turned off. Since @philippeb has the same symptoms and doesn't have an universal remote the digital circuitry is a more plausible cause. For now.

I tried plugging the device off fhe electrical network too and there were no changes.

Is there any chance that you contact Mr. Jim and let him now about this debate?

[sfbp]

Not for first gen analog tracks, I think. I am not 100% sure, though; I have removed the 333 -> W1 optical link, since then.

Ah, I forgot that if you record analog on a deck that it can be copied digitally to a second deck. Not sure I ever tried this as my goal was always to upload to PC even before there was USB. The PC sound card has no SCMS restrictions at all.

[jim.hoggarth]

Morning all. Thanks for PM, gerchy, I missed this thread yesterday.

First off, I have no experience with this model. But doesn't mean we can't diagnose the problem. Having listened intently to the video, I believe the initial power-on clicking to be a relays energising. Having briefly looked at the service manual I see one relay pulls in to apply mains power to the primary transformer (standy circuits run off their own minor transformer), and a second click after the first will be the audio mute relay switching (this prevents power-on 'pops' being sent to the external power amplifier). But that burst of clicks just as the 'No Disc' message comes up sounds more mechanical to me, more like a plastic gear 'graunching' (that is one of my more technical expressions).

Does the clicking occur if a disc is already loaded into the mechanism? I notice from the service manual that the disc load tray is, as you would expect, loaded/ejected by a rack and gear assembly. I am wondering whether a fault in one of the LSI chips is causing a short pulse to the loading motor when already at its extreme. Or perhaps a switch that detects the tray being fully loaded has 'expired'.

Jim

[gerchy]

Hi!

Thanks for the reply, Jim.

The power-on clicking is normal and I believe it was there before.

Now that you mentioned a mechanical reason I remembered that once the tray didn't stay open. When eject was pressed it stayed open for a brief moment and then it automatically closed. If I recall right I fixed this by pushing the tray manually to its closed position. There was also some plastic grating. But that was like a year ago.

Once the disc is inside (also when powering up) there is no clicking.

[bluecrab]

After seeing this, I powered on my 333ES to see about clicking. This is a US model that I bought used on Ebay. Mine has some definite peculiarities - let's just say that recording or even erasing don't work as they should - but I use it only for playback anyway. In any case, it clicks once on power-on and that's it. It -does- seem to take a while longer than my other MD decks for No Disc to appear, but I am not getting the number of clicks that Gerchy reports. It also clicks once on power-off. I have the unit connected via analog in and optical out.

As for the 555ES, I was watching one a couple of months ago on a non-Ebay site. The 555's lack of LP would be a big deal for me, but this particular unit looked to be in near-mint condition. However, it finally sold for 900 USD, which was more than I would have paid for it. If the LP issue isn't decisive for you, then you could consider the 555. I have never heard that unit, but the few comparisons I have seen between it and the 333 don't say that the SQ difference between them is all that much - they mainly mention the build quality of the 555.

HTH and good luck.