MD & HiMD Discs. What Difference?

[sailorman]

Hi, I just re-ignited my love affair for MDs after straying to the dark side of flash/mp3 for almost 10 years.

I dug out my old MZ-R700 and my discs. Now, I'm looking for some more discs before they get unobtainable. I think I lost track of the whole MD world just about the time they came out with the Net MD's so I never learned about anything more up to date than my own model.

I'm trying to play catch up, but meanwhile, can someone explain the difference and any compatibility issues between the MD and HiMD discs.

Are the HiMD discs usable in my machine? Are newer model players/recorders backward compatible with discs made on my machine?

I know the issues with MDLP, but I'm in the dark about the disc situation and I may be looking for another machine.

I want to be sure I won't have to re-record a bunch of discs or buy two different types of discs for two different machines.

Thanks for your help in advance. Anyone want to buy some Sansas?

The Prodigal Son.

[paperclip]

The Hi-MD units will work fine with regular MiniDiscs, and can format these to get more capacity. The Hi-MD are physically different and will NOT play or record on regular MD equipment.

Welcome back to the light!

[PhilippeC]

Keep in mind that

- you have huge quantity of SP only or MDLP units +/- Net-MD on second hand market compare to HI-MD units;

- SP only and MDLP +/- Net-MD portable units cost less than 100$ (mint like units) - check them on eBay;

- Hi-MD portable units cost from 50$ to more than 350$ !

- some people can repair SP only and MDLP+/- Net-MD easily than Hi-MD units just because they have much more spare parts for "old" units ;

- there is no HI-MD decks / bookshelves on the market, except those that you can order from Japan made by Onkyo and they are heavily expensive

Good for you and for us, SP only and MDLP +/- Net-MD decks are also as easy to find as portable units. Blanks are also still rather easy to find, specialy classical MD.

[sailorman]

Thanks all for your quick replies. Frankly, I didn't expect them so quick. This doesn't seem to be the most active board on the net., so I was pleasantly surprised.

I would not have thought about the issue of parts and repairs and would have assumed it to be nearly impossible at any rate.

I think I'll stick to the regular MD, mostly for the reasons Phillipe outlined, and the economy of the situation. The Hi-MD discs also cost 2x as much.

I'm mostly going to record FLAC files from my PC through the optical link. I'll have to make do with real time for now, or maybe forever.

Which brings up another question.

With the Network models, do you have to be downloading mp3's, or can you use any less lossy formats.

I'd like to archive all my CD's on the PC in FLAC or APE, then copy them to MD and it would be nice to be able to do it in a higher speed than real-time.

I guess what I'm asking is, is Sonic Stage the only program you can use on the Net machines, and if so, will it handle any lossless codecs?

Or would I have to use Hi-MD so that I could convert CD's to WAV before burning them to MD?

I still have a V1 copy of Sonic Stage on my Vaio from 2004-5.

(Don't laugh. It was top of the line back then) But I can't figure out whether it will work with a minidisc recorder or handle FLAC files.

Thanks again for your quick answers. You probably saved me from being stuck with a bunch of HiMD discs.

[PhilippeC]

- SonicStage ultimate version is available here on download section...

- if you use your MZ-R700, you can only record in SP mode. For me it is enough.

- with Net-MD MDLP you will have LP2 and LP4 which are lossier and also MP3 if it is included (that mean 320kbps quality possible) and above all PC download transfert with Sonic Stage

- SP is also possible from PC using SonicStage with Net-MD unit but with a quality not more than LP2 (this forum know that from a long time).

- for real SP quality (292kbps Atrac), recording in real time is the best solution. And for that it is better if your unit is a Type R one. Type S unit exist also but it is to enhance LP2 and LP4 listening.

That mean buying a Net-MD type S unit (portable or deck) as a best choice (or type R at least) versus a Hi-MD model.

For a very good recording quality, I personnaly advise you not to use your Pc with SonicStage as a source but instead Winamp, WPM or itunes as a source. Then add DFX audio enhancer as a plugin. Even that will enhance your own listening on your PC. Then connect your PC with his optical output and record with the help of Wincue plugin (with Winamp) to create gaps between your tracks. Then edit your new MD (witt SonicStage if you have a Net-MD unit).

I agree with the wizard for PCM but such recordings take a lot of place on the MD as show here : http://img715.images...gistrement.png/ so that mean that you will need to buy a lot of Hi-MD blanks (2 or 3 CD for each disc) or a mountain of MD standard blanks. Note that 352 kbps and 256 kbps are alternatives for a good quality recording and allow you to put more music above all on MD standard blank formated in Hi-MD.

Don't be so surprised with our speedy reaction, we are some here who are connected 5 or 6 times a day to the forum ! You can configure your posts to receive any answer and be informed with new posts. Sadly it is not perfect as sometime I don't receive a notification for some new post but as I come often in the forum it is not that important.

Edit : the wizard has been faster than me (dis donc the wiz tu triches car tu fais plus court). His advise are the one to use if you have a Net-MD unit. But be aware of Simple Burner if you want a SP mode disc, you will get the fake SP I was talking to you.

.

[PhilippeC]

Note the question but as you come back to MD see also... how to make great labels !

http://forums.sonyin...__1#entry170185

http://forums.sonyin...__1#entry169605

[MusicBringer]

Just wanna say it is good to have you guys around, still.

I like to update and re-record my HiMDs and often get in a muddle.

I am alright at the moment but it is reassuring you are still there to help.

Thanks,

[sailorman]

Wow. I guess being unemployed isn't all bad. I got to spend almost all day reading to try to get up to speed on 10 years of MD technology, well....actually only 3 or 4 years. It's a lot to absorb in one day, but since it hit a dead end, I'll eventually catch up!!

I think I'm going to forget the HiMd stuff. For now, I have the MZ-R700 and I'll record SP in real time with an optical output. I've used Media Monkey for a couple discs just to get back up to speed with my machine. I even managed to find the original manual so I don't have to keep referring to the .pdf manual.

Since I'm going to be confined to real time recordings for the time being, I'd like to make them the best possible.

My R-700 came with Digital PC-Link optical USB gadget. Using Media Monkey, I can direct the output to the USB and avoid the possibility of computer sounds messing up my recording. I also have an optical output in the back of the computer but I've never used it. Presumably it is attached to the soundcard, which is undoubtedly a motherboard based one as it was standard equipment on this Vaio and I never upgraded.

So, 2 questions....

Is there any difference, in terms of the ultimate audio quality, in using the USB link instead of the harder to access optical output built into the computer? If it makes any difference, the sound manger software (RealTek HD audio driver) informs me the audio driver is ACL880 and controller is "HD Audio".

Would it make any difference if I had a first class sound card? I don't know how good my sound card is, or if it makes much difference. It's not bad for computer stuff and movies and this was a high end Sony in it's day, but I've never heard anything good about motherboard based sound cards. At any rate, is the data coming from the digital link the same as what would come from the rear panel output? I have been assuming that it makes no difference either way, But I dunno.

Until I get a NetMD, I'm going to try Phillipe's suggestion of WinAmp with DXF. Do either of you guys know if I can do the same thing as I'm doing with Media Monkey and direct the output through a separate USB device in order to avoid system sounds?

Sorry if these questions are dumb. I never really learned the technical details of computer sound systems. Thanks again. With your help, I'm sure I'll figure all this stuff out eventually.

[PhilippeC]

I don't have this USB PC Link so I don't know its quality. Maybe our venerable sfbp can answer instead.

Yes the sound car quality as an importance but Sony Vaio series are good laptops so... test the optical out and don't forget to use DFX !

Mediamonkey : you are lucky as MediaMonkey as his own DFX plugin (recently!).

Control panel : make Windows silent. If you use Skype for example this will erase the beeps each time your friends send you a message !

[THIS SUCKS]

Hi, I just re-ignited my love affair for MDs after straying to the dark side of flash/mp3 for almost 10 years.

I dug out my old MZ-R700 and my discs. Now, I'm looking for some more discs before they get unobtainable. I think I lost track of the whole MD world just about the time they came out with the Net MD's so I never learned about anything more up to date than my own model.

I'm trying to play catch up, but meanwhile, can someone explain the difference and any compatibility issues between the MD and HiMD discs.

Are the HiMD discs usable in my machine? Are newer model players/recorders backward compatible with discs made on my machine?

I know the issues with MDLP, but I'm in the dark about the disc situation and I may be looking for another machine.

I want to be sure I won't have to re-record a bunch of discs or buy two different types of discs for two different machines.

Thanks for your help in advance. Anyone want to buy some Sansas?

The Prodigal Son.

i am interested in the sansa players! what models do you have? how much?

[sailorman]

i am interested in the sansa players! what models do you have? how much?

I have Clips and 2000s models, but that statement was made tongue-in-cheek. Sorry.

The Sansas have a few advantages over MD players, namely Rockbox, sleep timers and MicroSD cards, so I still like them for audiobooks and second-tier music.

Besides, new and refurbished ones are so cheap nowadays that they're hardly worth selling.

[THIS SUCKS]

I have Clips and 2000s models, but that statement was made tongue-in-cheek. Sorry.

The Sansas have a few advantages over MD players, namely Rockbox, sleep timers and MicroSD cards, so I still like them for audiobooks and second-tier music.

Besides, new and refurbished ones are so cheap nowadays that they're hardly worth selling.

so does that mean you dont have any for sale. i try to buy my stuff used. i have i sansa clip that i use all the time at work and i listen to my md player while its charging

[sailorman]

so does that mean you dont have any for sale. i try to buy my stuff used. i have i sansa clip that i use all the time at work and i listen to my md player while its charging

Yeah, that's pretty much what that means. The only one I'd consider selling is a 1Gig M4, but it's not worth the postage to ship, it's got native support for audible audiobooks and it takes a standard AAA battery, so I've just talked myself into keeping it.

[Odyssey]

Wow coming back to MiniDiscs after the IPUD revolution.... lolol You know class when you see it...lololoolol

There are a lot of MiniDisc machines listed at the MiniDisc Forum, our former home for the forum.

http://www.minidisc.org/part_Sony_MZ-M200+RH1.html

http://www.minidisc.org/part_Sony_MZ-E520.html

This should start you off.

One unique thing about the HI MD recorders is they can giver you 1 gig of disc space for data storage, not a big deal but few mention its availbility.

If you format the 80 or 70 minute disk in a hiMD recorder, it will give you 12 hrs ( I think ) but will not play in the non HiMD recorder until you format back to normal 70 or 80 minute discs.

normal 70 and 80 minute discs will play on the HiMD recorder but Hi MD discs will never play on a non HiMD recorder.

Go to the website for all the options, it just goes on and on.... the true nature of a superior product...

Welcome to the fold...

Keep those MDs Spinning... Why else are you here?

[sailorman]

Wow coming back to MiniDiscs after the IPUD revolution.... lolol You know class when you see it...lololoolol

...........

I've spent the last couple weeks haunting this, and the old forums you linked to, getting up to speed.

I'm probably going to stick to the regular 74-80 min. discs. I just picked up my first netMD, so I'm sure I'll be busy for awhile with SS and whatever other software I'll need to make that work. It came with 18 disks, which made it worth the $35 I paid for it. Right now, I've got around 90 blanks to play with. What I need now is labels and storage racks.

I figure I can do without the expensive, HiMD stuff...for now, at least. The data capability doesn't really justify the extra expense either. Anytime I need to haul around 50 hours worth of music, I've always got my Rockboxed Sansa that'll play FLAC files from HCMSD cards. I Just snagged two 4 gig cards for $13. That's not much more than a blank HiMD disc. With the right IEM, it doesn't sound too bad. But the MD sounds better on my "real" speakers.

I can't see using a HiMD for data. It's an insulting use for a Minidisc. Kind of like hauling fertilizer in a Jaguar. You can do it, but when flash drives are going for $2/Gig, why would you?

[Odyssey]

I've spent the last couple weeks haunting this, and the old forums you linked to, getting up to speed.

Well then I see you have been busy... The latest and greatest MD recorder is the RH1 or the M200, basically the same machine but it was built to do EVERYTHING the old ones can and more. It was SONYs finale

I'm probably going to stick to the regular 74-80 min. discs. I've got around 90 blanks to play with. What I need now is labels and storage racks.

Yes, they fit every unit Sony Built, including the 6 disc changers if you can find them. If you want to be able to use the MD for a long time, you need to try to stockpile some. Try to make your MASTER recordings on CD, then record your complations on MD. You can store what you like and erase and rerecord a new compilation on MD from the CD masters. This should work very well for you.

I figure I can do without the expensive, HiMD stuff...for now, at least.

You might want to rethink that. If you have interest in the HiMD product, you have to buy your supplies and equipment soon. Especially now that we don't know the condition of the Japan Plants after the Earthquake/Tsunomi. If they were damaged, Sony may not go back into production of the discs so all that is left is whats on the shelves and warehouses.

The data capability doesn't really justify the extra expense either.

The DATA capability was a throwback to Sonys MD hard drive. It was sold in Japan but I never heard of it here in the states. According to SONY, it did not catch on as a computer device. ( remember, there are all these MiniDisc users in the states but Sony says they never sold any, seems to have been an information problem, it seems. When the HiMD recorders were sold, it was just natural to be able to connect to the computer and use the disc for data. You can save data as well as music on the disc, something that was not an option before. As far as HiMD cost, I was able to get the discs cheap at the Sony STORE... they had been removed from the shelf and sent to the warehouse. The new employees did not even know what I was talking about. I talked to the manager and he found them at the ware house and priced them to me under cost, about 45 cents each for HiMD discs. He had to get permission to sell the lot since SONY STOREs usually only sell in single or such quantities. It might be advantageous to checkout the SONY STORE and talk to the manager.

With the right IEM, it doesn't sound too bad. But the MD sounds better on my "real" speakers.

I know. I have recorded many tracks and when I play them back, they are cd perfect. No one believes it is the MD playing. But the MD is such a useful device and the editing ability, portability, everything about it is just fabulous. I read where this persons IPUD kept falling apart, could not take the shaking and bumps in a car or on a bike, but he went back to MD and no problems, another happy MD owner... lolol

I can't see using a HiMD for data. It's an insulting use for a Minidisc. Kind of like hauling fertilizer in a Jaguar. You can do it, but when flash drives are going for $2/Gig, why would you?

I have a recorder hooked up to the computer. The computer has recognized it as a hard drive. This comes in handy when the computer ignores the USB connections. I do have some drivers on a HiMD disc for when the CD is not available.... ( I was hit hard by viruses a couple times and the computer came back missing a lot of stuff one time, the HiMD saved me. So why would I, because I can and because the computer thinks it is a hard drive. Go figure.

Well welcome back. We MD'ers appreciate the technology and use it for the great sound reproduction and of course, ease of recording. ( I don't use sonic stage so I never have had any problems recording ).

Keep those MDs Spinning... Why else are you here?

[garcou]

Features you 'll get with hi-md technology and not with standard md :

1) universal playback/record compatibility with all standards of existing Md/himd discs and atrac/atrac3/atrac3+ encoding.

2) Perfect (no more artifacts) encoging quality with pcm (lossless) and atrac3+ (lossy but extremely close to pcm at 352 kbps, far better than sp atrac)

3) Extended recording and playback time with standard "80 min" Md (100 min at 352kbps up to 13h at 48 kbps).

with Himd (1GB) you can record up to 45 h of music at 48 kbps atrac3+ ( 94 min in pcm , 7h at 352 kbps)

4) Fast and unlimited USB digital transfers from and back to pc (since sonicstage 3.4 and higher)

5) Ability to use mds (including regular "80 min" ones ) as USB mass storage (for albums cover for example) but also any type of files : text, photos, software , video ( you can store and playback an XVId or x264 encoded movie up to 2h at 1250 kbps)