930 vs. 940?

[NGY]

I have this dilemma: recently acquired a 940, in great condition, looks hardly ever used. I should say, this is the top for my audiophile needs. My all time favourite (I mean, in my all time foreseeable budget range) is the 930 though, simply for I like better the appearence of the front panel (it is more logical, or "ergonomic" so to speak, than the 940, but it might be subjective). Now, I found a near mint 930, quite expensive, but looks worth the money. My heart would go for the 930, as opposed to the 940.

I am looking for personal experiences and/or comparison of the two models, pros and cons - this would help me to decide, to whether or not sell the 940 and go for the 930. (The datasheets I have read, as well as the service manuals, I am fairly familiar with "what's physically inside", so it is not about the specs., but the "look and feel".) For one: I am not much concerned about MDLP, never used, though I have owned MDLP capable equipment since 2000.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[sfbp]

If you were not so far away I'd trade my 930 for your 940 in a heartbeat. Why? Functionality, plus I still have a project to enable the PS/2 port control of the 940 which simply isn't possible with the 930.

Someone here did an analysis of the codecs and concluded that SP although it *sounds* better is really not as linear a reproduction as ATRAC3 (ie MDLP). I am forced to agree, coupled with the fact that anything recorded on a good MDLP deck finds its way bit-for-bit onto my hard disk forever. The same is not true of SP.

[NGY]

Ah... Brief post (thanks definitely), but raises a lot of new questions in my head. Would you mind, if I ask them? I mean, would you mind spending your time answering them :-) .

I understand, that the way of usage and personal preferences can make a big difference in evaluating a certain unit over another one. I am open to learn new aspects. And, please forgive my ignorance, if someting asked is well known - the MD world for me stopped pre-MDLP/netMD/HiMD, and seems I am not into those new technologies. The good old SP is good enough for me to get (near) CD quality, squeezing multiple albums onto one disc is not a goal, but the contrary, for - again - "ergonomic" reason, i.e., I am in the process of ripping our couple hundred LPs to MD, and the "one LP - one MD" scheme makes our life easier. It might sound simple, but I like simple and straightforward stuff :-) .

Back to the questions:

- which functionality do you refer the 940 over 930? To see whether or not those are decision points for me

- enable the PS/2 port control - do you mean, like how it is done in the PC-3 and S50 for example? Is it not possible on the 930 for the different control chip?

- SP is not as linear a reproduction as ATRAC3/MDLP” - I am not sure I got what you meant on linearity here. (I am trying to find the post you mentioned, without success so far)

- copy MDLP recordings to hdd - is it via one of the portable units and Sonic Stage?

Thanks again.

[sfbp]

Functionality:

1. MDLP

2. PS/2 control (only if I succeed in my little project - the Japanese models can do it but the US/UK model will have to be modified)

For myself, I like to upload the recording, work on it with Sound Forge (to get rid of crackle and pop and rumble etc etc) and then save forever on a hard disk (or CD). Usually I upload SP to Atrac3+ (256kbps), and edit that.

You can upload MDLP using the MZ-RH1 (or MZ-M200). Results are excellent, IMO. Especially if the starting point was a broadcast stream.

I can't find the reference to ATRAC3 vs ATRAC (SP). Maybe later.....

[bluecrab]

I have both. Simply put, the 930 sounds better to me. They are in the same system, so it's apples to apples. When playing LP on the 940, I usually output via optical, using the 930's DAC. Happy happy. Just would like to note, though, that while the 930 is very good, I'd still like to replace it with a JA20ES or similar.  Both the 930 and 940 are Type R and make nice recordings.

Also want to mention that I (and others report same) have made some really nice-sounding LP2 recordings from analog sources such as cassette and LP.

[NGY]

Thanks for you both. I am getting closer to my decision.

Honestly, before I began dubbing our LP-s to MD, I had the same idea of buying an RH1, and utilize its linear PCM recording plus PC uploading capabilities. But then I read - here and on ebay too - about the possible potholes of an (ab)used RH1 can lead into, and dropped this path. Sometime in the future I will obtain a proper preamp with optical out and copy the LPs directly onto the computer, for future editing/archiving. But for now, I can live with these 1:1 SP MD copies, and preserve the LPs.

One of the options I am considering is to keep my 640 (as a fullsize deck, because I have a PC3 and an S50 too) to record in MDLP in case I needed, and swap the 940 for a 930, then I still can play MDLP recordings on the 640 via the 930's DAC, as bluecrab suggested. Does this make sense? Is there something in the 940 I am missing, that makes the quality of the recording better than on the 640, as they have the same ATRAC chip (and talking about digital audio input)?

[bluecrab]

That's a reasonable idea, but what you might want to do is first hook up the 640 d.out to the 930 d.in. Play the same MD and switch between the 640 native and the 640/930. Listen carefully. If the 640/930 sounds better, then at least you have that information known.

If I had to guess, I would guess that where the 640/940/930 ALL have the same ATRAC chip, you could also compare recordings made on the 640 and 930 and see if there's any diffs. This applies to digital recording only, as when you're going analog > MD, things could be different among the three units.

Having never had a 640, I can only suppose that one of the diffs between the 640 and 940 is that the 940 may sound better on playback via analog out. Maybe sfbp has further information about the internals of the 640 and 940 that would matter.

[sfbp]

I think if you output to a heavy duty amp (I have 3) that takes optical input and upsamples it to something like 176 or 192 (from 44.1) you're laughing. In this case, I really don't think the DAC buys you anything at all. Just my opinion.

The 640 is a reliable unit, EXCEPT for the belt that operates the open-close mechanism. But this is the same for many models across the range including the 940. Not too hard to replace, either.

Is your 940 switchable voltage or hardwired to 230V? If the former, I would definitely be interested in a swap.

[NGY]

On 2016. 03. 25. at 9:40 PM, sfbp said:

I think if you output to a heavy duty amp (I have 3) that takes optical input and upsamples it to something like 176 or 192 (from 44.1) you're laughing. In this case, I really don't think the DAC buys you anything at all.

 

I think I am talking about a different matter here. My point was purely, whether using the 930's DAC and all its analogue part behind would give a better sound (of an MDLP recording made on the 640), than by using the 640's own circuitry - on the same audio output system, amplifier/speakers. At first sight - looking into both decks, and seeing just the "density" - my feeling is that the answer is yes.

My application is listening to music in my flat (mostly at moderate volumes), or by using my headphones. So far I have been glad with the audio quality of my system, even if it is not that "audiophile" by certain "standards". No plans for more sophisticated gear just as of now, and if I ever will feel the need for even better sound, I probably would not use MD in that system as the source of audio.

 

 

On 2016. 03. 25. at 9:40 PM, sfbp said:

The 640 is a reliable unit, EXCEPT for the belt that operates the open-close mechanism. But this is the same for many models across the range including the 940. Not too hard to replace, either.

True, I had to replace the belts in both of my 640 and 940, not a big deal, indeed a 10 minutes work.

 

On 2016. 03. 25. at 9:40 PM, sfbp said:

Is your 940 switchable voltage or hardwired to 230V? If the former, I would definitely be interested in a swap.

I have to check this, cannot remember. Right now I can only take a look at my photos I took when first opened the deck. Will get back on this.

[NGY]

It is hardwired to 230 Volts, as far as I can see.

Only two wires to the primer side of the transformer, and no switching/setting circuitry on the AC side:

  

[sfbp]

We'd have to swap the power boards (ugh!) as mine is hardwired to 115 (ish).

My point is that an amp with optical input is way cheaper than you might think. I paid only about $250, and the results are amazing.

 

[NGY]

At last, I managed to get hold of a used (apparently, very much used) 930. It was very dusty and full of (animal?) hair, the laser had run ~4800 hours, and the display was somewhat dim, but other than that, fully functional and was in a nice condition aesthetically. Plus it had the original remote too. My damage was ~100 euro, but I think it was still worth it. Now, it is time to nicely refurbish this unit, to have it look like new.