E-12 load/eject trouble

[2many]

3 mdse12’s all failing to load and eject properly. I have looked inside.

I am no expert, but with a nudge I have been successful at loading, reading, playing and ejecting. Any body here got any ideas?

[2many]

About the above topic.

2 rack mount e12’s had sat idle for 5 years. Now they fail to load and eject properly.

So I got out the 3rd one which has been boxed 15 years and tried it too. It had a failure when I bought it and an ebay seller sent me another to replace it. I kept that third one for parts, but never had it out again until now.

And I got it to work and play too by nudging the tray a bit while loading or ejecting. (though it is a little noisier)

I will show you some pics...shows the tray in and out as well as the white sliding piece I was helping go.

The tray belts all look fine. My two good ones were working fine last time they were used. And now, I even coaxed the parts unit that had toc error to work

[sfbp]

BELT!

Item 204 on the service manual for the e10 which is all I had handy. Probably the same or similar for the E12.

It's basically a rubber band. The favourite replacement is an orthdontic one which you can buy in bags of 100.

Do some reading here - there are lots of posts about this for other machines. It's the single commonest source of this problem for ALL decks.

[2many]

SFBP, 

You would know what is wrong better than I. This I know because I did read on this site what I could find prior to registering and posting.

And I did see your comments, and the rubber bands. And... I suspected the belts on those three e-12’s. But I swear, they look fine! Theroretically a belt loose enough to get slack when if is really needed could very well be the problem.

The systems work and travel part way without any assistance. 

While I would consider bands over belts if there is no alternative, I feel like you have to hit me with a hammer to make it sink in that my belts must be slack beyond proper operation. And so I ask for more proof.

[bluecrab]

There's no way to prove it is the belt from afar. However, my good friend replaced the belt in my MDS-JA22ES a while back. He gave me the old belt, which looked a lot like the new belt. It could not be determined by the look and feel that that was the issue. (In fact, there were other, more serious issues, as well.) You won't know whether it's the belt until you actually do the replacement, most likely. But you have to begin somewhere, and the belts is an inexpensive start.

[sfbp]

They need to be really tight. If there is any slack, the belt has already stretched beyond what will work.

Yes, it's possible the mechanism is sticking (broken tooth in the rack), but it's not nearly as likely as the belt.

Another thing - there is NO WAY all three would fail with a broken tooth - it's an extreme event. Whereas all three belts going slack is EXTREMELY likely.

[kgallen]

See my post here on the belt and fitting. As above the belt can look fine but when you take it off it will look ‘lifeless’ and will have no stretch  

 

[2many]

Ok, you guys are getting me convinced.

A belt can “look” good on there and be stretched beyond specs. 

So is it 17mm size belt that I am looking for? I found the link to the ebay seller in the UK.

As far as those instructions go on replacement, I have seen the spring on the left that needs to be disengaged, but I am unclear about what/where the vertical tensioner is. Can anyone point that out closer? 

I am not sure I found the RIGHT video showing how to replace the belt. Never heard russian... link?

Regardless, replacement belts are 17mm????

After 3 e12’s I imagine I will have to take care of some jb940’s. So thanks to the kind folks here for setting me straight on this.

2many

[kgallen]

At the rear there is a tab that can move up and down in a slot. There’s only one and it’s that one! On your top photo, it's above (when the drive is the right way up on a table) the "SCE 535" label.

Yes 17mm belts work perfectly. 

Did you look at the Russian video? In my link above I give time stamps for each step - but in a slightly later post in that thread.

If your symptoms, as you describe, are that the disk will load and eject but with a little manual help, then the load belt really is the culprit! That is unless you are only trying a disc that has a label that is lifting or is covered in sticky nail varnish (the disk in your picture does look like the label is "decorated" with some lumpy stuff!).

So did you really get a second E12 from an eBay seller for free just because of this load issue? Oh I wish I was so lucky!!! Those E12s are pretty valuable... Where are you - can I have one of your "spare" E12s? :-D

[bluecrab]

I actually did have a couple of broken teeth on my JA22ES, but as noted by sfbp, the odds of this happening on all three E12s are very, very long.

[2many]

Ok, went at it today. Still having trouble. I bought a number of those 17mm belts from UK.

With a new belt in place it is worse. Tried two out of three e-12’s so far, seeming ly same results. As stated previously, I could help things go into full load position and all was good.(but we cant have the lid off and nudge things in everyday use) With a new belt (these are thicker) it really does not operate at all. Normal operation is that the disc gets drawn in through the faceplate at the very beginning of entry and proceeds all the way in at which time the tray also drops down a bit. This coincides with the white sliding bar and gear driven pieces extending to the back of the transport during loading. And their returning to unextended position when the disc is extended.

The belts are easily replaced through the mouth with out even removing the spring or lifting any white “lever” as I was advised.

I placed the original belt back into my know previously good unit and I am back to square one. IE, the disc is drawn in part way but the white plastic parts in the rear do not travel like they should. So the tray does not drop down, I get a read error and it tries to eject. It does not do eject either with out a little nudge. (that is if you had manipulated it into position where it should finally rest for toc and play...

I am goind to load some pics and video. Pointing out the white bars and back of tray that wont drop down. Video of it trying to eject and load.(caught in limbo between load and eject but not getting full travel) 

And video of my working e-10 easy load and eject. Of course, you all know how these work as normal. All help is appreciated!

[2many]

I have a few more pictures and thoughts.

Pictures of the tray dropped down (up front) white parts in rear with no disc and with disc loaded. Although there are two different white pieces that go in and out I am thinking now the one with the gear teeth has more to do with it all. It has a spring on it. Pushed on it lightly while the machine was trying to eject, and it went into proper action. Disc ejects as normal.

with these new belts on things have to be forced to partly insert. Yet not wanting damage, I did not use too much. I never got it to do its thing with a new belt. Things don’t feel right with a new belt. And the small follower up top in the front right does not travel its slot well. Disc feels stuck in there even when it is “mostly” 

On 7/6/2019 at 8:38 AM, kgallen said:

At the rear there is a tab that can move up and down in a slot. There’s only one and it’s that one! On your top photo, it's above (when the drive is the right way up on a table) the "SCE 535" label.

Yes 17mm belts work perfectly. 

Did you look at the Russian video? In my link above I give time stamps for each step - but in a slightly later post in that thread.

If your symptoms, as you describe, are that the disk will load and eject but with a little manual help, then the load belt really is the culprit! That is unless you are only trying a disc that has a label that is lifting or is covered in sticky nail varnish (the disk in your picture does look like the label is "decorated" with some lumpy stuff!).

So did you really get a second E12 from an eBay seller for free just because of this load issue? Oh I wish I was so lucky!!! Those E12s are pretty valuable... Where are you - can I have one of your "spare" E12s? :-D

ejected. Works fine with a nudge and the old belts. Travels, drops down, reads and plays.

[2many]

  Well, I don’t know what to tell you guys, but I sure don’t like buttoning these up with a rubber band as a belt.

here is what I am talking about;

The 17 mm belts from the uk I bought don’t work. In fact the deck hates them! Upon initial insertion of the disc you feel interferance. You can not get the transport to operate even with assistance. But even shoving the disc in part way kind of gives you a stuck in there feeling. The left leading edge of the disc is being grabbed and held onto by the initial load parts and it is hard to even free it from this grip.

tried new belts on the was working unit and the was always not working from day one unit. No luck. Old belts and manipulation. I can get things to go barely.

Redy to give up and think of electronics repair shops who know little of mini disc, I decided to try rubber bands from one of those thrift store multi size band bags for a buck. 

That works. And that is the bad deck that has never worked! See the video below. Problem is, there were only two bands in the bag that were right size. So I still have to source more. I would still be looking for any thoughts anyone has about my deck failures.

Kgallon, yes, i did get a replacement sent from a seller after the one he sent had this problem. No I do not want to sell one. My e-10 works fine after all this time sleeping! I have 3 jb940’s that currently will not eject yet all my jb930’s are fine. And my oldest one, a 920 subjected to the elements in the garage works fine.       Oh, I did not mention yet that my tc-835s dual cassette is holding on to two cassettes in the drawers and will not play or eject.

I bought a belt for it long ago but as yet have not dove in to it. 

Any one know any tricks for the sony.   tc-835s?

[2many]

Thank you all for helping. And to really thank ya, here is a link to a brand new e-12 on ebay for $400 out of modesto ca. Ebay item 143234653630.    Better hurry! used ones are going for $462

[kgallen]

14 hours ago, 2many said:

The belts are easily replaced through the mouth with out even removing the spring or lifting any white “lever” as I was advised.

There is no "white lever", it's a black tab (as previously advised). Your flat blade screwdriver is pointing at it. Anyway, glad you got the belts changed. Doing it through the MD slot is a bit of a challenge though - far easier to just remove that spring and flip up the upper frame in my experience - but whatever works for you and gets the job done!

I'm confused you say the 17mm belts "don't work" - having done at least 3 machine myself and fixed this exact problem. I can't see how they could bind with any of the mechanism - the white nylon wheels that it travels around have quite deep grooves in them and the replacement belt (as seen side-by-side with the original in your photo) aren't that much thicker (assuming they are the 17mm/1mm belts).

Working machines - that's the outcome we want and it sounds like you're nearly there. So good work!

Kevin

[2many]

I can not quite figure the binding either. The rubber band is just about as thick as the new belts, but they do stretch easier.

And yes, plenty of room on the wheels. All I know is that I tried the new 17mm belts over and over on two different decks. Same failure and binding.

[kgallen]

10 minutes ago, 2many said:

The rubber band ... do stretch easier.

Hmmm, that might come back to bite you. But I think you already said you're a bit nervous about fitting a machine with a crude elastic band and I agree you're right to be wary! There is no guarantee that those black belts we can get these days are top-notch quality but at least they were intended for this particular job.

I'd be interested if you can see why the belts I've recommended are not working - do you think they are too loose or too tight in your drives?

Discussions on this belt come up a lot and various users (including myself) have sought to find suitable replacements - but none of them are the actual component that Sony used - and we don't have a spec for a new/perfect example of one - so we're all guessing a bit and looking for suitable (if not exact) replacements.

I'm not sure I could settle with an elastic band in such a valuable machine. More investigation would be worthwhile if you have the time/inclination!

[2many]

I can not see why the disc is binding during the “initially begining to insert” stage. Left front corner of disc hangs up in what I suspect is the small guidance grooves. I currently have “ask the seller a question” remarks concerning an ebay belt called a gem 3.5 square belt reportedly for e-10 and e-12 units as well as the jb980.

seller has not responded to my queries yet. Belt $6.95 and shipping $2.95 !!!

the belts look good in the picture for what that is worth. Here is that ebay item #

113810440574

The belt is extremely easy to replace as far as I am concerned. It is just the pita of pulling the unit from my rigs and extracting the transport to do it. I will buy belts if I find proper ones. For now I can run with what is in there. Here is my rig. There are two set up this way. Power conditioner, dbx 386 compressor/pre amp utilizing on board digital converter and direct digital hook up to the mds e-12 for a high dynamic recording. A pair of oktava mk319 mics round out my set up. So this way I pick up a super nice signal in the pre amp that is Sent to the digital imput on the e12

I use the rigs for any high end recordings I need to get, capturing the slightest ambient sounds or handling the blasting output of a band’s pa system. This in a true realistic uncolored form. Then I do my editing with a host of other machines.

[kgallen]

Nice to see those 1U vent panels in there too!

 

[2many]

I have fonally got around to servicing the two jb940’s in my work station’s stack. Been putting it off due to the complexity of access to it all. I can say I am a pro-installer of belts now after a total of 6 units. And with proper belts on hand it is a five or ten minute job. 

However, changing the four belts on a sony tc-we835s turned out to be an extreme pain. Difficult to find information, tips and tricks. In the end I am successful there too. 

I am currently on my way back together after a total wipe down of dust, re-vamping of all wires and a deoxit spay of noisy pots on the technics sa-700.

That tape deck.... whew. Give me minidisc all day!