Sonicstage and Tags

[dutchtrance]

Hi guys, thought i would pick your colective brains again!

im a little confused and annoyed about sonic stage and how it handles tags.

now i know the problem lies with the mpeg group for not defining a tag format for mp4, but i thought sony would have worked around this by now.

im trying to adopt aac instead of a mp3/atrac mix as this is what is supported by my phone and other software.

heres the lowdown of what i understand.

sonic stage works via id3v2 tags.

it organises via these tags it finds in files.

when it imports, from CD, AAC files it uses some kind of `sony only tagging` system and stoes the files as 3gp.

the 3gp files`s tags cannot be read in other software, such as media player, or indeed a sony w880i phone (it reads it as unknown artist and displays the filenames only).

When it imports, from a m4a file, itt ignores the tags stored in the m4a file that all other programs can read.

When you edit these tags in sonicstage, it inly stores them on the DB and does not write the changes back to the file its elf.

moving the file and removing it from sonicstage, then reimporting the file causes sonicstage to `forget` all the tags, meaning they have to be renamed.

inother words, i must chose between having tags compatable with sonicstage or otherrpograms/phone, but cannot have both with out having to re tag my entire libray each time.

also, sonicstage does not store wether the track is part of a compilation and the album artist for each file, regardles of wether it is an atrac/mp3 file.

ami correct in these assumptions/findings?

am i missing something?

is there a tag editor that will allow me to tag in both sonicstage/phone compatable tags?

[Shinji Ikeda]

Hello dutchtrance,

I am sorry to hear about the problems that you are having. Are you using the lastest version SonicStage 4.2/4.3.

Unless ATRAC files are the only format that will be used you should be importing CD audio tracks as MP3 or AAC.

You need to change your setting. TOOLS --> OPTIONS... --> CD drive setting +/- then CD importing. Select Select Format and change the format according to your preference.

SonicStage is a great tool for updating Tags, but I have not found a way of exporting tags information. Once your MP3 files have been updated, you can drag-and-drop them into you compatible device.

[dutchtrance]

I think you misunderstand my problem.

I am trying to redo my cds, which i had in atrac format, into AAC format.

i am ripping into AAC format within sonicstage 3.4

the problem is that the tags on the aac (in 3gp container) files that sonicstage rips from the cds cannot be read in other programs. the sound plays fine but there are no tags, making them useless for my phone and other software.

on the otherhand, AAC files i rip in m4a format in other programs have the tags readable in all other software programs, but sonic stage ignores the tags and wants me to retag them. the other bad part is that sonicstage then`formats` the tags soon as i move the files or re install windows.

[mrcookie989]

Hey dutch, I have run into the same problem as you. I'm using the latest SonicStage (4.3.) to rip my CDs into AAC so they will be compatible with my Sony player as well as my iPod. But the .3gp container is not compatible with iTunes effectively (no gapless, no tag info that SonicStage has written) so it is pretty much useless. My cell phone does recognize .3gp, but only in video format apparently. I think this is a case of Sony borking AAC support by going with a format that is not very mainstream (.m4a). This seems odd to me because I hear both the PSP and the PS3 support .m4a with no problem. Sigh. I was really hoping to have just ONE media library with all my CDs in one gapless codec, but alas.

The only thing I can think of that won't involve transcoding either ATRAC or .3gp to AAC is try renaming the file extension of a SonicStage rip from .3gp to .m4a and transfer it over to your player. Who knows, it might work seeing as how they are both part of the same audio group (Advanced Audio Coding).

Best of luck to you, let me know how it goes!

Edited May 28, 2007 by mrcookie989

[dutchtrance]

it seems that there is no solution for a unified mp4 format that sony and others will understand/

why will sony not just adopt the universal (though not official) format for mp4 tagging, i.e. apples tagging?

at the moment i have to maintain 3 librarysof tunes: one for sonicstage, one for the phone, and then one for use with all the other software in the world.

WHY sony WHY?

its the usual, give with one hand then take with the other

[pata2001]

it seems that there is no solution for a unified mp4 format that sony and others will understand/

why will sony not just adopt the universal (though not official) format for mp4 tagging, i.e. apples tagging?

at the moment i have to maintain 3 librarysof tunes: one for sonicstage, one for the phone, and then one for use with all the other software in the world.

WHY sony WHY?

its the usual, give with one hand then take with the other

I agree. Sony should have at least followed what is "standard" on the market, which is MP4/M4A container and Apple tagging. I don't understand why Sony picked the 3gp container in the first place, unless they want to mobilize contents to be usable both on their cellphones and DAPs.

My Sony W600i has no problem recognizing M4A AAC tracks ripped via iTunes, so depending on your cellphone, you can cut down your library form 3 to 2 (itunes and SS).

Funny thing is that Sony is one of the developers of AAC codec itself.

[Heman]

Would like to share somethings learned. Please let us know if wrong:

Mp4 is a standard container for the MPEG-4 multimedia portfolio including ways or methods of storing/delivery/testing video, ..graphics and audio signals

m4a and m4p mostly use by Apple

m4a = no DMR MPEG4 Audio (Apple product)

Apple AAC encoder/decoder - Quicktime 6 or higher/You may say ITunes

AAC (LC) format is fitted for all standard player, and AAC (HE) is popular on mobile-phone player. If you use incorrect standard format, your device may not play or play with degraded sound, say, some players can play ACC(HE) but delivering half of its quality - you may not notice in noisy envirnoment.

Sometime changing the filename extension may work. As per SS4.3, its output is purely for audio, re-name to *.m4a may fit for your non-Sony device or software.

Likewise, I came across the problem when importing AAC (encoder by Nero, Quicktime), only AAC file imported but no tag details. After studying the mp3 tag and AAC tag formats, I believe Sony can enhance the tag issue in future.

[dutchtrance]

ive looked into it futher and found out the following:

easy cd extractor has the option to create 3gp containered aac files.

sonicstage will AGAIN not read the tags in these files, but other programs will.

its looking more and more like sonicstage uses its own private tagging system, that no other program can read nor write to.

importing legal m4a files that other programs and my sony phne can read the tags from, into sonic stage, means sonic stage will not import the tags; we know this already.

the problem comes in that it will not store the track art either. if you add a picture in the track properties, then click ok, sonic stage `forgets` the album art and does not display it. this makes it pretty useless!

no prgram that i have found ( and ive found a lot) nows how to write sonic stage compatable tags.

this again leaves me with a few choices: either i have a sonic stage compatable libary thats not compatable tag wise with any other devices and uses an unproven encoder ( we all know about the mp3 encoder/decoder disgrace when minidisc first got mp3 compatability). A universally compatable libary that i can use on my phone and any other devices EXCEPT my 706 or possible future 80x upgrade, meaning i will prob get an ipod or other media player and leave sony. Continue to use mp3s which is universally compatable but in terms of quality is reaching the end of its possibilities, plus AAC at 160/q0.5 is much better than mp3 at 160/q0.5.

either way i`m dropping atrac as i now have my sony phone, which means i need to, for the first time, consider other devices for my primary mp3 player.

The only solution to this is that sony open up their tagging format to alow programs to write to the file and store the album art and tags INSIDE the file, or for sony to read and (perhaps secondly but less importantly) write apple/industry compatable tags INSIDE the files WITH gapless info.

i will wait for a month or two and see if theres an update to cronicstage or if sony gets its act together while i save up some money for a 80x upgrade. if the situation does not change, i`m going to move to apple or iriver in order to keep one music libary.

unless some one else has a suggestion?

[ceres]

Looking at todays hard disk drive prices I would make the effort and opt for a second library as sorry as it sounds. a 250gb drive is around 50 euros these days. I am not counting on a Sonic Stage Update that will rectify the problem.

[dutchtrance]

or could take that 50 euros and get a mp3 player & software that reads tags properly

[T-34]

I'm compelled to get a NW-A808 for myself (bought one for my 6 year old) but SS is a deal breaker for me. I refuse to re-rip my CD collection when I already have 30GB of perfectly fine 192 kbps AAC files. Too bad for such a nice player, I can't understand why Sony is not facilitating for people to migrate from iPod/iTunes. After all it's 3/4 of the market they are locking out.

[SP1_]

I m using Sonicstage 4.2.

Is there a guide for adding album art?

[Richard]

I m using Sonicstage 4.2.

Is there a guide for adding album art?

You could always start with the section titled "Assigning Cover Art" in the help files that come with Sonic Stage.

Edited July 9, 2007 by richyhu

[SP1_]

Took me a while but I got it thanks richyhu.