Deleting Playlist from NW A808 doesn't delete tracks?

[doclloyd]

OK, so I decided to swap out the music on my A808 tonight, which included deleting a couple playlists I had. So I deleted the playlists via SonicStage. However, I noticed that the player still had all the tracks on it from that playlist! This is my first Sony device that actually supports playlists. Is this normal behavior or should I be removing playlists from the A808 in a different manner so it removes the files too? Because this could prove to be very annoying to manually remove tracks all the time... thanks for any help on this.

[hign n mighty]

OK, so I decided to swap out the music on my A808 tonight, which included deleting a couple playlists I had. So I deleted the playlists via SonicStage. However, I noticed that the player still had all the tracks on it from that playlist! This is my first Sony device that actually supports playlists. Is this normal behavior or should I be removing playlists from the A808 in a different manner so it removes the files too? Because this could prove to be very annoying to manually remove tracks all the time... thanks for any help on this.

U can't delete the track from the player phisically but add the unwanted track to the trash list ,and they will be automatically deleted from ur player when it connected to the SS

[Zizone_]

Simply deleting Playlist does not delete songs from the player. Think of playlist as a sort of bookmark. Deleting bookmark does not delete websites, right? In order to delete songs, view album/songs via SonicStage and delete songs from there. This will delete songs from your player.

[doclloyd]

The idea makes enough sense, but I think it makes for a challenging go of managing the tracks on the device. This would be especially true if all I wanted to do is really remove the tracks from that playlist off the device altogether, all in one action, just like I did in putting them on the A808.

I will toy around with the trash bin feature on the player itself and see if that does anything for me... but I think my understanding of playlists aren't quite in line with how the equipment works.

[Shinji Ikeda]

The idea makes enough sense, but I think it makes for a challenging go of managing the tracks on the device. This would be especially true if all I wanted to do is really remove the tracks from that playlist off the device altogether, all in one action, just like I did in putting them on the A808.

I will toy around with the trash bin feature on the player itself and see if that does anything for me... but I think my understanding of playlists aren't quite in line with how the equipment works.

Zizone has put up a good explanation about how playlist lists work.

The good thing about playlist is that you can transfer the playlist, and SonicStage will only transfer songs in the playlist that are not on the NW-A800/S700/S600 series Network Walkmans. Deleting songs in SonicStage does not effect the Network Walkman. SonicStage has a setting that will delete tracks from your computer and SonicStage after it has been transferred.

A more intelligent software to manage Network Walkmans would be good. Modifying the playlist view on the Network Walkman, so that the user can delete tracks if they want would be good. Of course having an additional prompt would be required.

Deleting tracks via the trash bin, may not be very feasible for your uses. Let us know more about your experiences.

[LuLu]

Zizone has put up a good explanation about how playlist lists work.

The good thing about playlist is that you can transfer the playlist, and SonicStage will only transfer songs in the playlist that are not on the NW-A800/S700/S600 series Network Walkmans. Deleting songs in SonicStage does not effect the Network Walkman. SonicStage has a setting that will delete tracks from your computer and SonicStage after it has been transferred.

A more intelligent software to manage Network Walkmans would be good. Modifying the playlist view on the Network Walkman, so that the user can delete tracks if they want would be good. Of course having an additional prompt would be required.

Deleting tracks via the trash bin, may not be very feasible for your uses. Let us know more about your experiences.

I just ranted about SS and playlists in another post.

Previous versions of SS allowed you to delete songs using "playlists" (it was called something different - folders? directories? something like that). When features are changed in an application it can be difficult for previous users to adjust. When these changes are counter-intuitive it can be problematic for new users. The fact that an analogy had to be posted by Zizone just shows you that this concept is not readily understood.

I believe the change occurred with version 3.4 and the release of the E-00X series.

LOG

[Shinji Ikeda]

I just ranted about SS and playlists in another post.

Previous versions of SS allowed you to delete songs using "playlists" (it was called something different - folders? directories? something like that). When features are changed in an application it can be difficult for previous users to adjust. When these changes are counter-intuitive it can be problematic for new users. The fact that an analogy had to be posted by Zizone just shows you that this concept is not readily understood.

I believe the change occurred with version 3.4 and the release of the E-00X series.

LOG

Great point. I think it was groups that were used on previous versions of SonicStage, If I recall. The playlists and folder/directories/groups are actually different entities(data-structures). The current implementation of playlists allow tracks to be included on multiple playlist. It could be suspected that Sony removed groups and added playlists for the additional flexibility that playlists give the user. From complains that I have heard about playlists users want more flexibility in using them to manage their music.

Such as this discussion about Auto Sync Auto Delete.

Sony recently released a laptop using users input. It would be great if they would ask our opinion for how to design the replacement for SonicStage.

[LuLu]

Great point. I think it was groups that were used on previous versions of SonicStage, If I recall. The playlists and folder/directories/groups are actually different entities(data-structures). The current implementation of playlists allow tracks to be included on multiple playlist. It could be suspected that Sony removed groups and added playlists for the additional flexibility that playlists give the user. From complains that I have heard about playlists users want more flexibility in using them to manage their music.

Such as this discussion about Auto Sync Auto Delete.

Sony recently released a laptop using users input. It would be great if they would ask our opinion for how to design the replacement for SonicStage.

Yes, groups, that was it!

I see the value of playlists and the ability to have a song installed once (say in a top level directory such as artist or album) and using different playlists to "point" to its location. I guess it is all in how you use the device. I mostly listen to a group of songs for a period of time then move on to another set. I keep a back catalogue on my player to listen to if I get bored of the current playlist. Rarely do these overlap so I don't really make use of the playlist concept as such. I just have to remember to list the songs/podcasts in the order I want to listen to them in the playlist before transferring. At least you are allowed to move the playlist order once transferred.

LOG

[doclloyd]

Wow, lots of thoughts on the subject! I agree the flexibility of playlists to the older style "groups" cannot be argued. Only requiring one copy of a song vs. many if you have a song in multiple playlists has value. I think some additions in intelligence on the software would be nice to have. Something like "remove tracks from player with playlist?" or similar. Otherwise, it seems like the player is left in disarray after you remove the playlist, orphaned tracks in one way, because they didn't leave in the same way they came.

Do others have experience with how other music players deal with playlists (iPods, Creative players, etc.)? Is this behavior the norm? Since it's my first device with real playlist support, I wasn't sure if this was normal.

Thanks.

[Shinji Ikeda]

Wow, lots of thoughts on the subject! I agree the flexibility of playlists to the older style "groups" cannot be argued. Only requiring one copy of a song vs. many if you have a song in multiple playlists has value. I think some additions in intelligence on the software would be nice to have. Something like "remove tracks from player with playlist?" or similar. Otherwise, it seems like the player is left in disarray after you remove the playlist, orphaned tracks in one way, because they didn't leave in the same way they came.

Do others have experience with how other music players deal with playlists (iPods, Creative players, etc.)? Is this behavior the norm? Since it's my first device with real playlist support, I wasn't sure if this was normal.

Thanks.

Technically the player is not left in disarray. It is the user who is left in disarray. It however, seem that many people would love to have the feature to remove songs once a playlist is removed.

From a conceptual point of view it gets quite complicated. A track can be copied to the unit as part of an album. The same track can then be added to a playlist later, before the playlist is copied to the unit. The track is not recopied to the unit when the playlist is copied. The question is when the playlist is deleted when should the track be deleted?

[SimonGrafftey]

SonicStage does allow you to manage playlists very effectively now, in my experience. You can create your own manual lists or create dynamic playlists according to a good number of criteria. They also work properly in transferring to newer devices such as the NW S700 series or the NW A800 series. Most recently (I think from 4.2 onwards) you can now check a box "Delete track from Playlist and Album at the same time when updating the playlist" in Automatic transfer settings, so if you delete a playlist there are no orphaned tracks on the player. I find this very useful using dynamic playlists, so that any changes to the list are added or deleted each time an automatic transfer is done.

I know everyone criticises SonicStage, but I think it has improved enormously since a lot of the major problems have been sorted. It's not very intuitive, but there is a lot of functionality if you look for it, such as track editing and splicing and transferring in your own recordings from the NW S700 series etc.

[juli_]

NW S700 series or the NW A800 series. Most recently (I think from 4.2 onwards) you can now check a box "Delete track from Playlist and Album at the same time when updating the playlist" in Automatic transfer settings, so if you delete a playlist there are no orphaned tracks on the player. I find this very useful using dynamic playlists, so that any changes to the list are added or deleted each time an automatic transfer is done.

I have 'intelligent shuffle' ticked but nothing else, and I disabled 'auto transfer as I found it messed up parts of my track listings. I made 2 playlists on the 706, and deleted the 1st one from the option in the SS library under 'view playlists'. But the playlist is still on the player. I've read loads of pages here but can't find a definitive answer as to how to delete it so it doesn't keep showing up on the player. I will try and trust the auto transfer again and see if it will update and delete the redundant playlist.

If not, I will upload a photo of me sobbing

[Zizone_]

I have 'intelligent shuffle' ticked but nothing else, and I disabled 'auto transfer as I found it messed up parts of my track listings. I made 2 playlists on the 706, and deleted the 1st one from the option in the SS library under 'view playlists'. But the playlist is still on the player. I've read loads of pages here but can't find a definitive answer as to how to delete it so it doesn't keep showing up on the player. I will try and trust the auto transfer again and see if it will update and delete the redundant playlist.

If not, I will upload a photo of me sobbing

Did you delete a song under a folder from a playlist or did you delete the folder? Because you may have an empty folder without songs that may be displaying on your Walkman from a playlist menu.

[juli_]

Did you delete a song under a folder from a playlist or did you delete the folder? Because you may have an empty folder without songs that may be displaying on your Walkman from a playlist menu.

I deleted the folder from within SS and left just the second playlist on. The songs still play. When I had the 706 before (before I sold and bought it again!), I had exactly the same problem. I ended up with 4 or 5 playlists that I had deleted from within SS and no longer showed, but they were all still there on the player and I had to keeping scrolling for ages to find what I wanted. I stopped making playlists then, because they seemed to be there permanently, and built up into huge lists that I couldn't navigate efficiently. My 're-bought' 706 only jas 2 dhort lists so far, and already I can't get rid of the first one, it's like a plague

[Shinji Ikeda]

I deleted the folder from within SS and left just the second playlist on. The songs still play. When I had the 706 before (before I sold and bought it again!), I had exactly the same problem. I ended up with 4 or 5 playlists that I had deleted from within SS and no longer showed, but they were all still there on the player and I had to keeping scrolling for ages to find what I wanted. I stopped making playlists then, because they seemed to be there permanently, and built up into huge lists that I couldn't navigate efficiently. My 're-bought' 706 only jas 2 dhort lists so far, and already I can't get rid of the first one, it's like a plague

I always though it was possible to just delete the playlist from the player. Is there not an option in SonicStage to display the playlist on the "ATRAC Audio Device". Under "ATRAC Audio Device", it normally read "Albums" but I always though that it can change to "Artist" and "Playlist". Or am I missing the obvious.

[juli_]

I always though it was possible to just delete the playlist from the player. Is there not an option in SonicStage to display the playlist on the "ATRAC Audio Device". Under "ATRAC Audio Device", it normally read "Albums" but I always though that it can change to "Artist" and "Playlist". Or am I missing the obvious.

More likely I'm missing the obvious. I've never been able to delete a playlist directly from the 706 - I can trash stuff, and delete bookmarks directly from the 808, but the 706 doesn't seem to offer the same option unless I've missed some simple setting somewhere. I have honestly never managed to delete a playlist from the 706!

[Shinji Ikeda]

More likely I'm missing the obvious. I've never been able to delete a playlist directly from the 706 - I can trash stuff, and delete bookmarks directly from the 808, but the 706 doesn't seem to offer the same option unless I've missed some simple setting somewhere. I have honestly never managed to delete a playlist from the 706!

It all depends on how you define simple. I have been able to delete playlists for the 706, but hey I may be talking apple's and you orange's. Anyways, that is life .

[juli_]

It all depends on how you define simple. I have been able to delete playlists for the 706, but hey I may be talking apple's and you orange's. Anyways, that is life .

Please tell me how you did it. I can do it in SS library. I view 'playlists' and it shows me 2 playlists, so I delete one playlist from there and it's gone. When I view playlists on the player - the deleted playlist is still there. Did you find a setting on the player itself, or did you delete the same way I did? And if you deleted the same way I did, then your playlist disappeared from the 706? I guess I can always delete the tracks from the library, then put them back once the playlist has finally gone. It would be nice to find a less complicated way, but at least I can do it if I have to.

[Shinji Ikeda]

Actually, I been able to determine that your experience is differ that mine. What you explained should remove the playlist entry. This is the same method that I use without any problems. There are speculations way it is not working for you.

Your player is acting erratically. There are two methods that I can recommend. More on the second later. Please press the reset button on the reverse of the NW-S706.

[pomj]

When you delete a playlist on the computer the files are not deleted. I think SS handles the playlist on the player in the same way. If you delete the playlist on the player just the list itself are deleted not the songs.

I think this is unfortunate because this behaviour makes it (IMHO) more difficult to manage the songs on the player.

[Shinji Ikeda]

When you delete a playlist on the computer the files are not deleted. I think SS handles the playlist on the player in the same way. If you delete the playlist on the player just the list itself are deleted not the songs.

I think this is unfortunate because this behaviour makes it (IMHO) more difficult to manage the songs on the player.

The problem is that when the playlist is deleted using SonicStage it is not correctly removed from the player. Under normal conditions SonicStage removes playlists from both the ATRAC audio device and SonicStage library the same way. It has been concluded that the player is not acting correctly, and thus atleast needs to be reset. The resetting will not delete files, but should correct the problem described above.

[juli_]

It has been concluded that the player is not acting correctly, and thus atleast needs to be reset. The resetting will not delete files, but should correct the problem described above.

I will do a reset later, I know it doesn't delete the files, thank goodness. My only concern was that this is my second 706, and it behaves in exactly the same way as the first. I'll do the reset anyway, I have nothing to lose except an unwanted playlist

[Shinji Ikeda]

I will do a reset later, I know it doesn't delete the files, thank goodness. My only concern was that this is my second 706, and it behaves in exactly the same way as the first. I'll do the reset anyway, I have nothing to lose except an unwanted playlist

If this is the second 706 that is causing the problem, then this suggest that there is something else causing the problem. We can discuss the procedures that you are using to delete playlist/tracks later to see if we have found a problem.

[juli_]

The problem is that when the playlist is deleted using SonicStage it is not correctly removed from the player. Under normal conditions SonicStage removes playlists from both the ATRAC audio device and SonicStage library the same way.

I finally solved the problem and discovered it was my own silly fault. I had been deleting the playlist from the library, not from the player. I assumed this is how it was supposed to be removed. I thought when it was deleted from the library - from 'view playlists' it would automatically delete the list from the player when it was plugged in. By chance I clicked on 'playlists' under player views, (never even noticed the dropdown menu before!) and I found the playlists there. I deleted the first playlist and it has now disappeared. I feel a bit stupid as it was right under my nose the whole time and I didn't even see it. Sorry everyone, sometimes I can't see what's right in front of me!

On the plus side (for me that is) - since I joined this wonderful forum I have finally learned how to use the shuttle switch and how to delete playlists. With my previous 706, my ignorance meant I couldn't do either, now I am enjoying it even more

Edited August 9, 2007 by juli

[Shinji Ikeda]

Juli,

I am glad that you where able to solve your problem on your own. I feel that learning new features about something can be enjoyable and will enhance your experience.

[pomj]

I clicked on 'playlists' under player views, (never even noticed the dropdown menu before!) and I found the playlists there. I deleted the first playlist and it has now disappeared.

ok our problems were not the same. I can delete the playlist alright but the songs are still on the player which I think is an undesired behaviour.

If I choose view by artist or view by album and delete from there the songs are in fact deleted. However when I view by playlist and delete there only the playlist are deleted and the songs are still on the player.

[Shinji Ikeda]

ok our problems were not the same. I can delete the playlist alright but the songs are still on the player which I think is an undesired behaviour.

If I choose view by artist or view by album and delete from there the songs are in fact deleted. However when I view by playlist and delete there only the playlist are deleted and the songs are still on the player.

Actually, this may not be a undesired behaviour. There are some users that would prefer that when you delete a playlist then the songs are automatically delete. However, when a playlist is deleted the songs will not be deleted. This is the correct behaviour.

Playlist work the same in SonicStage as it does on the ATRAC Audio Device (player). So for consistency sakes when a playlist is deleted from SonicStage songs are not deleted from the SonicStage library. The deleting of playlist which results in the deleting of songs is not a feature of SonicStage or the ATRAC Audio Device.

The feature that you describe has can create various problems. Both from a programming and user aspect. For the user this feature will cause more headache than it would be worth.

There is one only extra feature that playlist have with relation to the ATRAC Audio Device. When a playlist is copied to the player, any song that is in the playlist and not on the player are copied.

[juli_]

ok our problems were not the same. I can delete the playlist alright but the songs are still on the player which I think is an undesired behaviour.

Oh, I see. Yes, different problems as I only wanted to delete the playlist. I think the reason why you can't delete songs from the playlist view in the library, is because the playlist is just a 'virtual' copy of the songs, not the songs themselves. I guess it's like deleting something that doesn't actually exist. But take this suggestion from someone who couldn't figure out the shuttle switch until very recently

[pomj]

Yes I know that SS is consistent in it's behaviour. The problem is when you (like me) put together quite large playlists with mixed artist. When youre finished listening to it you have a hard time finding and deleting all songs...

I would have loved that SS for example to ask if you wanted to delete the tunes too.

However I've learned to live with it

[Shinji Ikeda]

Yes I know that SS is consistent in it's behaviour. The problem is when you (like me) put together quite large playlists with mixed artist. When youre finished listening to it you have a hard time finding and deleting all songs...

I would have loved that SS for example to ask if you wanted to delete the tunes too.

However I've learned to live with it

As I would agree with you that there could be a simpler method of deleting large number of files. One user (I can not remember the post) wanted to be able to use playlist to update their player. In other words, they wanted to use a feature like playlist that would allow the copying and deleting of files from the player. Actually, they want a random generated playlist to be updated whenever they connected the player to SonicStage.

Both the feature you describe and the random generated playlist would be good features to be added. However, for simplicity purposes it should be player specific feature. Something similar to playlist, but not playlist.