Markr041

Check out my vocal recording - piano and soprano also, but recorded at max level and closer up. http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?autom...si&img=4338

I have just uploaded to the recording archive section an excerpt from a recent recording of mine of a live preformance of a local regional opera company ("Faust March"). The recording illustrates, I think, the tremendous dynamic range of the little minidisc recorder (in this case the rh10) even with a small stereo mike - in manual recording mode of course. The original was recorded using PCM. The MP3 version that is uploaded sounds worse, but the dynamic range is still there (I just used MusicJukebox to convert at the default rate). To my mind the recording also reminds me how processed commercial recordings are - this one has the immediacy, and even the roughness, of a real live preformnce - not compresssed or glossed. It's fun music too. And the original performace is not electronically enhanced, so one is listening to a recording of instruments and people, not a speaker array.

You do NOT have to put the unit in pause mode, while in manual recording, to change the levels - they change by number x/30, where x is your setting. You can change in pause or while recording on the fly, just like the Sharps. Does anyone else have the experience that changing the numbers on the fly actually does nothing to the actual recording volume?

It remembers the level - e.g., 18/30 - it just does not remember that it was set to manual. That is, when you do go back to manual after a full stop, the last setting of the level is still there.

I have recorded some classical music concerts with my Hi-MD 800. These have huge dynamic range. I have used manual recording only, high sensitivity with a sony stereo mic. The Sony mic never overloads at these concerts, and in fact I cannot hear any evidence of digital overloading. Yet, a large proportion of the music peaks reach 0 db (e.g., reading in Total Recorder). It is hard to beleive that I got the level exactly correct so that tehre were no digital overs. I suspect there is a limiter in the minidisc recorder, even in manual mode. When I used to use DAT machines, going over digitally resulted in obvious and horrid noise - none now. What is going on?

Well, from that thread it appears we do not have the comparison we want. There is one person's experience (bad) with the loud setting. And there is another person's experience with the standard setting (good). [and one experience with neither - manual]. But who knows what went else wrong in the first case (maybe nothing). What we need is the same person, with the same mike and MD at the same concert using the two settings.

The 907 doesn't have much response below 100 Hz - is there any reason to use any bass roll-off with this mike?

Why not enter the computer age and get a Hi-MD unit? Then you can upload PCM or Hi-SP compressed recordings (in real time) digitally to a computer using USB to get a wav file you can edit.

I also tried copying audio HiMD disks using explorer with no luck, including standard hidden files How about a bit-image copy, however, using Ghost of Drive Image? This clones the disk, an exact image copy. Anyone tried that?

Both of these reports are confusing (to me): rm: The mic sensitivity and loud music settings are two different things. The first setting is when you record using AGC. The other is the microphone setting. Did you record using both "loud music" for AGC and low sensitivity for the mic setting? You may know this but it is hard to tell from your report what you did. jk: If you use "manual" recording (set the level manually), then the "loud music" setting is irrelevant; it is for AGC and would have no effect on your recording.

The Peter Ravn review says" The manual setting of the recording level can only be set during recording pause not while recording- Sorry (!) " Tha administraor of this forum seems to agree. However, I have the 800 and I can during analog recording set the level during recording, not only during pause. The review is wrong, unless the European model differs from the American model. Does anyone who has used the 800 have a contrary experience? The review and the news statement should be corrected, as it will mislead on this important issue many potential purchasers (I only care becaue I want minidisc to survive, which is made difficult when expert sites mislead).

Trade is fine - how do we do it?

I have used DAT tapes. It is a pleasure to use discs instead of tape. The PCM setting is 44MHz, 16-bit. DAT records at 48MHz, 16 bit. That should make no difference. If you used Windows, you would have the capability with Sonic Stage/Total Recorder to get the data into an editor as a wave file without any digital analog conversion. That is a big advantage over DAT - which required a DAT machine with digital out and a computer with digital in. You are certainly losing something by converting to analog and the re-converting to digital.

That's really neat, and useful. My experience so far in recording an orchestra of 85 people from about three rows from the front in the middle was a setting (manual mode) at high-sensitivity, 14/30 and it never reached -4 (playing a big and loud (in part) Brahms piece). Similar experience at a pops band concert, front row middle but about 20 feet away - high sensitivity, -2 peaks, at 15/30. This was with the Sony 907 mic. So, what mike is used seems to matter a lot, since my expereince seems quiet diferent than yours. I was using the 800, recording PCM. Anyway the results were fine, and you are right, S/N hardly matters given crowd-ambience noise at live concerts. The loudest I ever encountered, which did overload some of my mikes, was a single soprano in a small room, with the mike about three feet away (Sony 959 mike).

This is all useful and true, but right from the manual. The real issue is what settings to use for which kinds of music or venues: What is "loud" music in practice, for example? Is a trombone quartet loud, calling for low sensitivity setting, or is it soft? is an orchestra loud or soft? is a soprano in a small room loud or soft? You recorded at an open air festival - so; what kind of music was it/ how far away from the source were you? did you use high sensitivity or low? or did you use an outboard pre-amp? how do we know that what you did was "best' - what are the criteria - minimum signal/noise ratio with no "overs"? or what? And, we do not know that the electronics in the new devices are the same as in the old ones, just because they have the same nomimal settings (but my old Sharp certainly did not have two types of AGC) does not mean they have the same specs.

The "Loud Music" setting is for AGC. It is irrelevant for when you record using manual mode (setting the level yourself). Low sensitivity, of course, is relevant, and is the correct setting for loud music. We have to face the fact that at this stage no one has much experience recording live music using Hi-MD device, so the "advice" given for those is based on speculation informed by non-Hi-MD devices. Your own experience with the equipment you have will be very informative.

I do not know what is meant by "upgrades the format". This is the upgraded format! I have just recorded two concerts using PCM on Hi-MD 1GB disks. I used manual recording mode so I could set the levels. The results were fine. This is much better than using DAT - no tapes to break, and instant access. The Hi-MD devices are smaller than DAT devices (the only previous device that was portable to get PCM recordings) and get better battery life. I also used to use a Sharp minidisc recorder (to get compressed recordings, of course); the quality on the Hi-MD seems just as good in terms of the mike pre-amps, and almost as easy to use now that one can change recording levels on the fly (no pause necessary) with a genuine dial It's nice that you can just press t-mark while recording to get track marks where you want them for later editing and listening. I played the resulting disks via SonicStage into Total Recorder to get bit copies of unencrypted wave files on my computer. I edited the files and I have nice, uncompressed recordings. I do not know what anyone is waiting for who records. (I do also not know of too many concerts in which the artists play for more than 1.5 hours without a break.)

Can we have some clarity as regards the "Wave Converter": 1. The statement made above is that the Converter *can* or will convert ATRAC to wave; it does not say it will not convert PCM to unencrypted wave. And what about other ATRAC codecs at lower bit rates? 2. Where is Sony's statement, so that we can see for ourselves what Sony "says"? Is there a link, or is this some privileged communication, or what?

The Hi-MD Sonys do allow changing recording levels "on the fly" - once you are in manual mode, then while recording you can turn the dial to change the level (and the eradout changes to show you by number what you are doing (e.g., 20/30 or 14/30), without pausing or stopping.

My Radio Shack receipt says 2601010. It's 1PK HI-MD.

It's even more ironic than that, since the $11.95 version of Total recorder does the trick.

I once had a terrible problem of skipping on recordings made on a Sharp. The cause was Memorex mini-discs. Every recording made with them had skips. When I switched from Memorex (to TDK, or Sony, or Maxell) the problem never again appeared.

Indeed. I had the experience of "transferring" into Sonic Stage where the recording had small silences caused, evidently, by running processes. The Sonic Stage files are ruined, and I cannot ever try again to get them into Sonic Stage. I can still play the original disc files with Sonic Stage and copy them with TR, thank goodness. BTW, to get uninterrrupted (no drop-outs) bit-perfect recordings I have to stop almost all processes on my machine. I hope that when Sony comes out with its wave converter, it also removes the one-time transfer restriction for own analog recordings. I don't get these restrictions on transferring and copying, which are essentially ineffective against getting bit-perfect copies, but are a big nuisance. Just like the refusal of the recorder to remember to stay in manual mode - a nuisance that makes recording hard for those who want good recordings. Is this just a silly tax on bootlegging?

I have used Total Recorder in the 2-step process (copy from minidisc to Sonic stage, then playing the file in Sonic Stage while recording in Total Recoder) and the 1-step process (playing the disc through Sonic Stage directly to Total Recorder). There is no difference that I can detect in the resulting wav files from each other or the original (in PCM). I don't understand the comment "I haven't tried recording through USB, mainly because the whole idea seems flawed to me." What am I missing? I have already made two PCM recording of concerts using the 800, and it is a dream that I can get PCM recordings that I can edit on the computer with no DA conversion. I can now get rid of my DAT machines - which also required real time playing to get data into the computer, but no instant access and constant worry about tape fouling and breakage.

BestBuy sells them for $7.99, compared with $6.99 at RadioShack and Crutchfield.