Mznh1-sound

[Benju]

so yesterday i recieved my mznh1. I have always chose ms over mp3 players (owning a mz-n1 and 707), and hav always been pleased with the sound from these players. ok, maybe the n1 distorts a little on the higher volumes but anyway.

My question is howevre to anybody out there with a nh1, about the digital amp. Using the eq settings, the volume seems to be kept at a certain level, (ie quieter parts in the song are amplified, where as louder sounds seem to be contorlled). On some tracks this is more noticable than on others, but either way i always end up noticing it, and its really bugging me, as it sounds very unnatural. sure i could turn the eq of, but using a pair of ex71's, the sound is quite flat. has anybody else noticed this, please tell me it is not just me......

[dex Otaku]

Do you have AVLS turned on?

[Benju]

Nope. im almost certain its the amp...

[aeriyn]

Oi, I've heard that the HD Digital Amp is rather picky about what type of headphones you use with it. Try a different pair.

[Benju]

well, the effect seems to be getting less noticable every time i listen, but its nothing to do with the phones or avls, im sure its the way in which the sound is being amplified. anybody else who has an nh1 surely must hav noticed this??

[xispe]

my nh700 does that too... when the volume is about ... 23/30, it starts making it... it's because of the equalizer. With the eq. off I get more output, with the same constant volume.

[marcnet]

23/30? Thats quite loud.

I can get away with about 14/30 before it starts to annyoy everyone in the office. I use the EQ as well.(set at 3,1,0,0,1,3)

I think you should try different earphones. I use a pair of £15 Philips ones (I cant remeber the model number as i threw the box away - they're red and silver with sticky-out bits in the black rubber). With that EQ setting, the sound is excelent.

[Benju]

Well after quite a few playback hours, i have discovered that this effect noticablly comes into play when the device its near its full volume (27+ out of 30). To be honest i dont know why i had the volume so high in the first place, not really needed, lol. (I do like my music loud though).

i now have the volume set at 22, and the effect is still just about there but cant really be noticed unless you listen out for it. I guess mayb the sound is being monitered at higher levels as to not be distorted? i know on my previous n1 player, the sound got distored at higher volumes...

Im still undecided as to wether i really like the sound coming out of the nh1. On one hand it seems very vibrant and dynamic, but on the other hand mayb a little over processed, loosing some precision. i dont know, i will keep listening for now

[Qwakrz]

WOW.... at the volume level of 22 I hear a ringing in my ear after listening for a few seconds.

I cant manage more than 15 on my NH1. I have yet to notice any problems with the EQ but this could be because I dont listen to it at high volume.

Have you thought that when you engage EQ and increase the base level, the unit is trying to push out more than 5mW at that volume setting and the unit is trying to stop clipping, the only way to do that is to "Soft Limit" the maximum volume & produce a sort of lul in the music.

[dex Otaku]

There's also the fact that properly used EQ should NEVER go into gain; it should always -only- be subtractive.

[Benju]

haha ok i admit 22 is a pretty high volume, iv turned it down to 17, that is by no means loud to me but i guess i should really try and preserve my hearing :happy:

[deafplayer]

There's also the fact that properly used EQ should NEVER go into gain; it should always -only- be subtractive.

Ive heard of that rule before and it makes sense, but ive always been curious about one thing.... maybe you can help me out:

is there any tradeoff in attenuating lots of different frequency bands (to give one frequency a relative 'boost') vs using gain on that one band and leaving the others unaffected?

I mean if attenuation affects a big enough range of frequencies can it become worse than adding gain to a small range? or is attenuation in eq's pretty much non-destructive to sound quality?

edit: btw i mean for producing/studio applications

[JeffS]

I don't think it would have a negative effect, save for the output volume level. More than likely, to get the sound you want to hear after the equalizer, you'll need to run the output into a good amp.

Personally I try to use the gain on my portable, but I've got it figured out for where my preference is with the headphones I use. It's in a moderately noisy environment, so this isn't exactly audiophile listening at its finest.

I hope to pick up an amp in the next year, but I'm waiting to try upgrade to the nh900 (or its 2nd gen replacement) and try out the built in HD amp that is in there.

good luck

-Jeff

[dex Otaku]

The "rule" I mentioned is in fact a throwback to the analogue days, which I stick to because it tends to avoid exactly the kind of problems that people are experiencing with the EQ on HiMDs.

The idea is that adding gain means adding noise. For all intents and purposes, the ideal type of equaliser is in fact complletely passive - without amplification at all. Another stage of amplification means another stage of both added noise and distortion. In a studio situation this tends to be important because various signals might be routed through multiple processors, cumulatively adding layers of noise and distortion for every one until it becomes noticeable.

In the digital realm this becomes arguably somewhere between "less of a problem" and "a complete non-issue" depending on the processing techniques used, but I still stick with it because it's simply my rule of thumb, and with anything from home receivers to HiMD units to iTunes and Winamp still tends to avoid certain problems [such as channel clipping within amplified bands, and soft clipping or limiting].

So yeah. It's not that I'm old, really, but it is that I learned a few of the old ways first, which I tend to think of as an advantage.

My favourite way to edit is still with 1/4" 1/2-track open reel tape, for instance. Mind you, what I actually use is a combination of different digital editors, each of which I find best-suited for certain purposes.

Maybe I'm just a stick in the mud. Heh.

As far as tradeoffs go, as long as the gain you apply to any specific band is less than would cause clipping in that band for whatever material you're listening to, there shouldn't be any problem. In practise this doesn't work well, though, especially with recently-mastered recordings, much of which are run straight into clipping a fair majority of the time before any post-processing is applied [i.e. as they come straight off the original disc].

I only use attenuation with my NH700 to correct for the rather dismal response curve of my Koss pseudo-canalphones, which ends up working quite well [surprisingly]. They're also of rather high sensitivity, so the volume when I'm listening rarely ever goes over 12-13/30 [as it becomes ear-splittingly loud above that]. As a result, I'm not likely to run into the soft limiting problem to begin with.

I'd suggest that finding a better pair of ear/canalphones would improve everyone's listening experience far more than learning how to apply [a rather limited] EQ "properly" [it's all subjective, hence the quotes].

Attenuation isn't necessarily non-destructive, either. If anything, by definition attenuation is specifically destructive. In the end the idea is to do as little processing as possible, because all processing is by nature destructive in the sense that it's adding distortion of one kind or another.

[deafplayer]

thanks for explaining all that

i guess youre right, attenuation is specifically destructive to the signal... but yeah i meant distortion and sound quality

btw im going to go ahead and get those sound professional mics i was asking you about before

thanks for all the advice

[spy1983]

Hi

Maybe your unit (MZ-NH1) can be a european crippled model so it doesnt produce loud sound on the same level like 14/15 like the other units, non european models.

I have a MZ-NH900 and also mine is european model. I always listen on 29/30 with mdr-e828lp earphones. But i have the same problem i think there is a distortion when i turn the volume up to 30. And also i couldn't get used to eq settings. I can't get any ambient or warm with eq? It seems it sounds flat. I think virtual surround mode studio mode is better than the eq settings. Can you recommend me a eq setting with high bass?

Thank you

Edited January 17, 2006 by spy1983

[bjsilva]

well, the effect seems to be getting less noticable every time i listen, but its nothing to do with the phones or avls, im sure its the way in which the sound is being amplified. anybody else who has an nh1 surely must hav noticed this??

Just a quick reply to say that I have not noticed anything like that with my NH1 through EX71s, ED228s or 7506s. I haven't used the EX71s a whole lot yet since they more often spend time connected to my stereo be played ridiculously loud (with the speakers off!) in order to wear them in. It's helped quite a bit, but I still want warmer mid-range.

[DerTapir]

Hello there,

I have the MZ-NH1, too, and i Thing your problem is defenitly based in the Sony earphones (ex 71s). They are realy extrem in high frequenzy range (for my opinion it's too hissing...hope you know what i mean !!).

When you want something with good midrange or more "substance" in the lower frequenzies, try out a Koss Porta Pro. My girlfriend has one for her Ipod and use it somtimes. Miles better than the Sony garbage !!!