Why No Digital Out On Portable Units?

[Sharpo51]

Why do the portable units (except for the first one) have no digital out? Maybe it has turned out that it is requested only by a minority and has been dropped but maybe there's another reason. Do the MiniDisc licensees also have to agree to include or to leave out certain functions or options which are not directly related to the MiniDisc system, for example those which are a part of the interface?

Edited February 15, 2005 by Sharpo51

[dex Otaku]

It's possible that they left it out for power saving reasons.

It's also possible that they left it out to prevent the billions of users who have recorders with optical inputs from copying their MDs digitally. Only problem with that theory is that almost no one I know, from the average user to audio professionals, uses optical connections for any of their equipment. Except perhaps for their main home system, in which the optical connections never end up going to recorders.

My sarcastic theory is that they leave it out to peeve the thousands of recordists that use their equipment by requiring them to buy a deck, i.e. it's a money-making ploy.

In all honesty, they probably leave it out for the power reason and to save a few cents on build complexity. Putting an optical out in the headphone output might likely make the jack more fragile [think of the thousands of insertion/removal cycles that happen in a player's lifetime].

[Sharpo51]

My sarcastic theory is that they leave it out to peeve the thousands of recordists that use their equipment by requiring them to buy a deck, i.e. it's a money-making ploy.

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In all honesty, they probably leave it out for the power reason and to save a few cents on build complexity.  Putting an optical out in the headphone output might likely make the jack more fragile [think of the thousands of insertion/removal cycles that happen in a player's lifetime].

This sounds very convincing.

You would be amazed by how much useful information you can find in your manual.

Great!

[dex Otaku]

People just love my .sig now, don't they.

[Michael1980]

IMO it is yet another anti-piracy drive from Sony.

But, with a bookshelf you can copy from digital out into your soundcard's digital in, correct?

[aeriyn]

I wish more portable players would have digital outputs, and not for recording reasons at all. There are some nice portable DAC projects out there as well as some builders who make a product; the aos Flute is really awesome, an exceptional little battery powered DAC and a stellar headphone amp combo all in one. And of course Headroom's Coda and Overture combo. At the time though, only the previous model iRivers and some of the Archos units actually have digital outputs.

If they'd use a 3.5mm mono minijack for coax digital out, the fragility would not be an issue...

[streaml1ne]

In all honesty, they probably leave it out for the power reason and to save a few cents on build complexity.  Putting an optical out in the headphone output might likely make the jack more fragile [think of the thousands of insertion/removal cycles that happen in a player's lifetime].

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You think power consumption from the LED would be higher than the amplifier circuitry?

[Bananatree]

There really was consumer demand for optical out.

Even on DVD players, opt outs aren't 100% standard. My first DVD player had just Coax out, mostly because people just use the RCA cable to hook it to their TVs.

So in the end, it was RIAA, consumer demand, and cost probably ended the digital outs on portable players. It is really hard to find PCDPs that have Opt outs these days, and even then it's at the top of the line.

[dex Otaku]

You think power consumption from the LED would be higher than the amplifier circuitry?

Excellent point, and no, I don't think the LED would take more power than the amp.

There really was consumer demand for optical out.

Of course there was, but only by a minority.

I've never actually met anyone who uses digital interconnects on their stereo system. Not even audio professionals. The 'audiophiles' I have known with $20,000 systems all use analogue interconnects.

I have also never met a broadcaster who uses digital interconnects.

Keep in mind that relatively speaking, I live in the boonies, though I've seen people systems literally from coast to coast in Canada.

In the end, I think it's less of a battle between sp/dif coax and optical and more of a battle to convince consumers that there's any advantage whatsoever in using digital connections. For the vast majority of users [probably greater than 85%] the difference is either completely unnoticeable or not enough to warrant using it.

If people in general don't use it, they won't ask for it. If they don't ask for it, equipment manufacturers won't care about including it.

[SlowMo]

I've never actually met anyone who uses digital interconnects on their stereo system.  Not even audio professionals.  The 'audiophiles' I have known with $20,000 systems all use analogue interconnects.  (...)

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-i did

in fact many of my friends use digital interconnections daily. (but they´re 'minidisc people' or tech loving or whatever)

to me, it´s not only a quality thing, but also a convenience thing, i simply love recording my home-made beats directly from reason through optical out to my minidisc, instead of going through the hassels of rendering a wav, then importing it to ss, transcoding and transferring to md. and i avoid having unneeded files on my pc. - i only need to plug in one cable.

i admit that this is not a very common use, but i think it´s a good example how versatile s/pdif is, and i believe, that much more people would use the format, if it was more common. people don´t really know about it, so they don´t care.

i would love to have an all digital amp, with optical inputs, it would make wiring up the thing quite easier, and i wouldn´t have to bother about e-m interfearances. (not that i would hear it, but it still bothers me..) and many people have problems getting static due to bad electricity cabling in their house, optical cables have no such problems.

of course professional audio people would use adat, or ebu as a digital interface, but for that, there´s no home equipment at all, so i´m fine with s/pdif...

In the end, I think it's less of a battle between sp/dif coax and optical and more of a battle to convince consumers that there's any advantage whatsoever in using digital connections. For the vast majority of users [probably greater than 85%] the difference is either completely unnoticeable or not enough to warrant using it.

If people in general don't use it, they won't ask for it. If they don't ask for it, equipment manufacturers won't care about including it.

you´re right.

but hey, the industry forces 'us' on formats all the time, why shouldn´t they once force us on something good ?

[Bananatree]

I meant to type

"There really wasn't consumer demand for optical out."

I just suck at proof reading. So we meant to say the same things, people wanted optical outs, but just wasn't a bold enough market to comply with.

[aeriyn]

A lot of audiophile types use digital ICs, especially at the top-end of the digital player spectrum. Most of the best audiophile-grade digital players are separate transports and DACs, so there's some type of digital connection between them. It's usually not optical though; tends to be BNC coax or RCA coax depending on price (BNC is really the best digital connection because it's very secure and offers a true 75ohm impedance). Optical S/PDIF has jitter issues.

Actually, "budget-fi" can be easily had by taking an inexpensive DVD player such as a Toshiba 3960 and connecting it via coax digital out to something like the DAC-AH kit you can get at diyaudio.com, or an older Audio Alchemy non-oversampling DAC. MSB Link DAC I can usually be had for around $100 on a'gon.