Faulty Hi-md Player Sony Uk Case No. 140981444

[jadeclaw]

I guess the point is not clear here. Woodgnome found a glitch in the simpliest of the recorders functions, and everybody is just going over it as nothing.

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The point is very clear here, this is not something, that calls for a general recall of all units. No lives are in danger here.

However, this is a case under warranty, so return the unit with clear instructions how to reproduce the problem.

And since this is a defect, it is Sonys obligation to fix it.

But every owner has to decide, is it worth the hassle with sending in etcetera...

[Woodgnome]

THE ANSWER TO THIS THREAD IS AT HAND...

Let me say - without any admisiion of liability from Sony - that my <sick> NH900B is to be replaced Free Of Charge. It will be replaced with 2nd Generation Unit RH10.

When my replacement player is recieved I will confirm that the "bug" has been fixed with this "second generation units" and hopefully also my faith in Hi-MD ...

WATCH THIS SPACE

[sebastianbf]

hello Woodgnome

congratulation for the topic. very informative.

please i need your help . my mznh900 is having problems too. when i try to playback a rcording that i rec in a himd disc the songs have gaps of silence in the middle!. i did the test you describe too. same problem! so i think my unit is defective. i need you to tell me what to do for the exchange. i thought that if you send your unit for exchange sony would give you a refurbished unit. i think i'm wrong because i read in your last post that they will send you a new unit. please tell me everything i need to know to send my unit for the exchange (contacts, and all that stuff)

thanks a lot

sebastian

[Woodgnome]

Sebastian et al,

I have replied to your message seperately - but this is a general reply.

I wanted to use this forum so that all people having the NH900 that discovered it had a fundemental editing bug on Hi-MD LP (demonstrated by a repeatable test) would ellicit some "global" response from Sony.

It proved to ME - that at least 7 other people (in the world) had the same problem and so I concluded that it was a generic issue with "some" NH700s & NH900s. However there was no way for me to assertain if it was a BATCH issue or if that is why the 1st generation units have been withdrawn so quickly from the shelves (and are being superceeded by a new range of 2nd generation units)

All I got through my thread were;-

1) Seven good responses from technically minded people that also had the problem

2) Lots of other responses ranging from the paranoid to denial that MD had any problems. In one case that my threads could "damage the reputation of MD as a whole". I even had my responses edited and deleted - although some were re-instated after I complained to the site hosts (god bless them!)

However - after 3 long & technical letters to Sony, eighteen phone calls, and returning my unit to Sony (it wasn't fixed - neither was a "sticking" EDIT button) - Sony have very kindly offered to replace my unit with one that does work! That means they will either "DO" a firmware fix on the NH900B or if this is not possible - replace my unit with a RH10.

As yet - three months later - I have not yet completely resolved this issue (as I do not have in my sticky palm a fully working unit) . When I do - I will let you all know.

P.S. Of course any owner of a NH900 would gladly have it swapped with a brand new 2nd Gen RH10. However - we really should have claimed as a group. Unfortunately - as an indvidual - you'll probably have to go through the same long winded rigmorole to get your units sorted out as I did. I can promise you - a one line email to Sony is not going to get them giving out free replacement players.

Edited April 16, 2005 by Woodgnome

[Christopher]

Woodgnome, the only reason we deleted some of your threads was because you would post new topics about the same issue. One topic per issue by the same person. It's as simple as that.

[LupinIV]

It proved to ME - that at least 7 other people (in the world) had the same problem and so I concluded that it was a generic issue with "some" NH700s & NH900s.

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Woodgnome, please add the NHF800 to the list as I tested earlier on this thread.

Please let us know how you proceded to contact Sony and if you have any particular contact number we should call directly. I want to try to have my NHF800 replaced too. Field editing is important to me.

Thanks again

LupinIV

[xispe]

hey! I don't want a new unit... i just want my money back!

[Christopher]

What Wood accomplished is enough to deserve respect from all of us - Sony is a fiesty mistress. Good show, Wood.

[Menthol Moose]

Can someone run by me whats happening with this bug ?

What has been sony's official response to the Issue ?

Yes.. im a noob, so please excuse

[banjo]

Hi all,

I repeated these tests on an nh1 last week - the problems are there also.

I've started trying to get some feedback from Sony but its not happening.

After paying top dollar for a device that is clearly defective, the least that I'd expect is some customer support, however basic: surely that is factored into the Sony premium?

[Artstar]

Hi all,

I repeated these tests on an nh1 last week - the problems are there also. 

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Luckily for me, I don't have to worry about this bug with my NH1 given that I simply record and then dump on the PC. Nevertheless, I find it quite distressing that even my old theory, of buying Sony's high-end product in order to obtain what should be a quality product, is being disproven!!

It's no secret that Sony's low - midrange gear is pretty cruddy and in a lot of cases, it's rebadged equipment too (that doesn't apply to MD of course). But to let their sloppy work go as far as the high end is making me lose faith in this company more and more. I used to be a major advocate of theirs for 2 decades now but that has been slowly diminishing, at least in the consumer market. I'm still an avid user of their professional equipment, having a DSR-PD170 video camera amongst other equipment.

Here's hoping the shift in management will actually help the company's electronics division turn a new leaf and actually concentrate on creating quality innovations like they once used to as opposed to listening to their God forsaken legal counterparts during their design process.

Otherwise, I'll be purchasing spare optical units for my MZ-R50 and MZ-NH1 and hang on to them with a passion. Not that I really need to upgrade from the NH1 now that I no longer have to worry about swapping discs during that critical moment at a live gig.

[Woodgnome]

Hi,

I thought this thread would gradually gather momentum.

From messages and posts through this thread it seems that NH700s, NH800s, NH900s and the NH1's all have the bug.

However - is the bug fixed with the 2nd generation units...?

When I recieve my replacement RH10 I will post the results here!

....when I recieve it...

[Woodgnome]

The news you have hopefully all been waiting for!

My NH900B had a fault when editing an originally recorded Hi-MD. This has been repeated on more than 12 other individuals units via this website. It appears that batches of the NH700, NH800, NH900 & NH1 exhibit this fault. You will find how to test yours earlier in this thread.

I complained about the problem through Sony. After 18 phonecalls and 2 lengthy technical letters I opened a verbal dialogue with Sony. After initially trying to brush me off and disregard the technical fault (or bug) they became more rerasonable and agreed to either fix the fault with my unit or replace it.

I sent my NH900B to the Sony repair centre - but alas it was returned as working but nothing had been done to it (including a pushbutton that had become faulty).

At this point Sony agreed to swap my NH900 for a MZRH10 - which I have recieved.

The good news is that editing in Hi-MD works perfectly! However - the specification of the RH10 is lacking in a few critical areas that makes me feel slightly short changed.

As you may know the NH900 has the "VH Accoustic Engine" - basically a Graphic Equalizer. There are 2 customizable settings (so you can turn up the BASS mainly). However the RH10 European model has the 2 customizable settings disabled. You can only use the four presets - which basically sound so tinny and flat (even with my Seinheisser PX100s) that it ruins any listening pleasure.

The new screen on the unit is good - but the remote has no LCD (as the NH900 did) rendering it difficult to select tracks (when I'm on the Tube every morning) without removing the device from your pocket.

The RH10 does mp3 - but only by downloading through Sonic Stage 3 - so what's the point???!!! Previously an mp3 was auto converted and downloaded through Sonic Stage 2.x to ATRAC3 anyway! It should have been implemented that you could just copy mp3 to the Hi-MD as files (although I'm just quoting what the instuctions say - I haven't actually tried it yet)

Battery life (because of the screen) is also down (from 37 to 32hrs) on the RH10.

I'll just have to buy some of those "mega bass" powered cans (ear phones) to try and make the thing sound reasonable - and live with it. At the moment the sound quality is just not good enough. My original MD portable (NH-750G) still sounds fantastic with it's mega bass turned on compared to all the Hi-MD units 1st & 2nd Generation alike!

I don't want to blow the RH10 up - but doeas anyone know if the remote (with LCD) from the NH900 will work with the RH10?

In conclusion - I think MD is the best recording medium available TODAY (for a reasonable price). PCM recording on a £100 portable is good value for money. To me this is the only reason not to buy a solid state player (mp3 memory stick) or an i-pod.

However this whole "episode" really makes me wonder what Sony are playing at. To bring out 2nd gen units - with the custom equalizer not allowed in the European market model... As for the Stick remote control with no LCD... If the RH10 is the top of the range (before the units that display and take pictures) I cannot understand why the specification has been reduced.

I was quite prepared to pay top dollar for a top spec unit. I did - it didn't work properly. Six months later it appears that the top of the range unit is not top spec. I'd like to know how Sony do their market research as they no longer seem to be making products I want to buy. However it is the Minidisc MEDIUM that interests me so at the moment I guess I'm stuck with what Sony "tell me" I want.

P.S. The little "CN MEmory" 256M mp3 player FM radio / recorder I bought for £28 as a temporary replacement is great! Unfortunately the record function is only 32K WAV (low quality) but it has made me realise that as soon as someone brings out a device like this with high quality record - it will probably be the end of the MD format). Unit then - I'll soldier on...

I'll still sign on to this website to check any further responses.

Signing off for now.

Woodgnome

[LupinIV]

I sent my NH900B to the Sony repair centre -

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Woodgnome,

it still would be nice to know who you contacted. In particular, direct phone # or contact person, so we could avoid Sony's burocratic customer service and get to the point.

Thanks for your work.

Cheers

[jadeclaw]

What? No Custom EQ-Settings on the european RH10?

Looks like someone at Sony went completely bonkers.

Well, as soon as someone finds his way around in the Service-Menue,

that should be fixed.

RE Remote: If I recall correctly, someone in another thread used a RM40 remote with the RH10 and it worked.

[bug80]

The RH10 does mp3 - but only by downloading through Sonic Stage 3 - so what's the point???!!! Previously an mp3 was auto converted and downloaded through Sonic Stage 2.x to ATRAC3 anyway! It should have been implemented that you could just copy mp3 to the Hi-MD as files (although I'm just quoting what the instuctions say - I haven't actually tried it yet)

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The point is, you don't have to transcode the files. Transcoding (from lossy to lossy) generally leads to extra quality loss. Second it saves time, and third MP3 generally has better quality at lower bitrates than ATRAC. So, you can get more songs on one disc at the same percieved quality (for instance if you encode with LAME --alt-preset standard).

Copying the MP3 files directly to MD (without SonicStage) will work, but your unit won't play the files (it will recognize them as "data" instead of audio).

What about the EQ? You mean you can't save custom EQ settings, or is it just a limitation regarding the "VH acoustic engine"? I just can't believe it's not possible to save EQ settings on such a high-end unit

[Woodgnome]

What about the EQ? You mean you can't save custom EQ settings, or is it just a limitation regarding the "VH acoustic engine"? I just can't believe it's not possible to save EQ settings on such a high-end unit

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[bug80]

As for your comments on mp3, Sonic Stage must do some processing on the mp3s to turn them into that big 1G file on the minidisc in which all the sogs are stored....

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Yes, it does, it adds some extra data to the file. Mostly data that prevents you from copying it to other PC's (DRM stuff).

I'm really shocked about not being able to store EQ settings.. Will this also be true for the European versions of the 910 and 710?

[Woodgnome]

FINAL POST FROM AUTHOR OF THIS THREAD

I have now recieved a MZ-RH10 in replacement for my "Buggy" NH900B.

I have used the NH900Bs LCD backlit remote (RM-MC38EL) successfully with the RH10. The RH10 standard remote on the European model is RUBBISH!

I have changed the players ROM so that customizable graphic equalizers are available along with enhanced sound level.

All in all the new RH10 is EXCELLENT. The EL screen is a real joy - and the way you can edit your own recordings - with the unit making a soft beep after rehearsing your track mark is really nice!

No pitch bend (no real loss) or charging stand (mmm) - but I prefer USB battery charging of the unit (not just powering the unit through the stand with the mains adapter as with the NH900) anyway.

Only bug is when adding text to track name - display shows a matrix of the aphabet - which goes off the area of the screen.

A B C D E F G

K L M N O P Q

V W X Y Z

The screen does does scroll to the missing letters (you just have to count keypresses instead) so it is not a major fault (this time) just an annoyance

Faith in minidisc is restored - and I think this unit sounds better than the NH900 - slightly sweeter.

In final conclusion - Well Done Sony - but PLEASE Beta test your units so there are NO bugs next time...

Edited May 4, 2005 by Woodgnome