Reasons to Stay

[iyareu]

Hi All,

I have been a loyal customer of Sony's for many many years (as many of you have). I have had the ATRAC Cd player, Many Minidisc players and as at today I have a MZ-NH900 and a VAIO Pocket (40GB) & I love them both.

Thinking about the future though I am torn because Apple have just released the new IPOD - the one that does video.

It has a 20 hr battery life (same as Vaio Pocket) and sound quality that will stand up for me as I use my Vaio pocket mainy outside (with sennheiser HD270 headphones).

I used to be confident I had the best technology but now for simply practical reasons I feel I am being forced to jump ship and I don't like it.

I have over 11000 tracks on my player and many CD's still to download onto it so will eventually need some expansion. I cannot however see a Sony solution.

Also the ipod has so many accessories but the Vaio pocket is discontinued and there is no comparable replacement.

Please please help me with some reasons to stay (or not)

I have always favoured Sony but it seems Sony doesn't want to keep customers like me.

What are your thoughts?

[pata2001]

One reason, gapless.

The iPods cannot play anything gaplessly. Sure, there is a workaround using AAC and AAC chapter tool, but so far that's Mac only, and only for AAC. Apple kept releasing nice products at good prices, and tons of accessories too, but until they can do gapless, I will still consider Sony as a choice, and I know it's hard since Sony is not doing things right.

[Dinko]

Hi All,

I have been a loyal customer of Sony's for many many years (as many of you have).

Thinking about the future though I am torn because Apple have just released the new IPOD - the one that does video.

It has a 20 hr battery life (same as Vaio Pocket) and sound quality that will stand up for me as I  use my Vaio pocket mainy outside (with sennheiser HD270 headphones).

I used to be confident I had the best technology but now for simply practical reasons I feel I am being forced to jump ship and I don't like it.

Please please help me with some reasons to stay (or not)

I have always favoured Sony but it seems Sony doesn't want to keep customers like me.

What are your thoughts?

In brief:

I'm disappointed with Sony, and considered moving away, but decided to stay. Long battery life. Good looking players. Quality of ATRAC. Good quality gadgets.

The long rant:

I'd have to say I share many of your concerns. And I'm really torn about the new Walkmans. So much potential. These things could have been "it". They're fantastic (looking that is)... except they have what I would consider crippling flaws: size, weight & no features other playing music.

I want one. But I hate buying stuff just because is looks good. The listed features on the new iPod are very appealing. I don't care about video that much (the PSP is about as small as I'll go in terms of video although it could come in handy occasionally - record a show overnight, watch it next day on the bus, continue listening to music for however long your battery lasts after that. Of course you need the appropriate tools to record & transcode, but that's a separate issue. The iPods are also priced very competitively. In Canada, the 60GB version for example, with its 20hr battery life, video, simple games, calendar sync... is priced below the Toshiba Gigabeat 60GB which has inferior features.

Still, seems like a clock wouldn't be that hard to implement. Who cares about clocks? For two years now, since my last wrist watch died, I have relied on my cell phone or music player to tell me the time of day.

(Then again, I once left a NW-E407 on a shelf, without using it and in two weeks the battery was discharged completely - not even enough juice to say "Low Batt" - so internal clocks might not be that good).

I just faxed a 4-page (single spaced, Times New Roman, 12pt) to Sony of Canada telling them why I loved minidisc, and why the new Sony HDD players were unappealing. I'm totally disappointed with this company. For a while I thought about dropping them altogether and moving to non-Sony hardware.

But then...

RCA Lyra

I have an RCA Lyra 40GB which I use for radio recordings. As much as possible I'm phasing it out and backing up the important files on minidisc. The drive in that thing looks like its dying. The buttons are non responsive. The software is buggy. WMA compatibility is a joke: most WMA files lost their ID3 tags, DRM WMA files are often recognized but unplayable. After about 50 charge cycles, the lithium-polymer battery is showing signs of losing capacity. Down from 11 hours to 9 on a full charge.

Problems I've never had with Sony devices.

Gigabeat

A friend bought a Gigabeat 60GB monster. It's a pretty good player. Probably the closest I've seen to an "iPod killer". But... the menu is absolutely idiotic. There are dozens of options, which is very nice for customizing it. Except browsing through the menus is unintuitive and requires pushing two different buttons and using the PlusTouch pad depending on which functions you want. Full use requires at least two software applications (Gigabeat Room can do the job, but its library display is pretty lame), it loads a Gigabeat Watcher application in your taskbar whether you want it or not.

Major problem: occasionally data seems to get corrupted during transfer leading to a total freeze on the player later on when trying to play a playlist. Red error message. HDD starts clicking, and the whole thing blocks. Only way out: hit the "battery off" button. Restarting afterwards means you've lost your customized settings, though the music and playlists are still there.

Past experience with Sony HDD player: the NW-HD1 uses simple four way buttons in an intuitive, easy to follow process, plus the Menu and Mode buttons. No problems with the HDD at all. Long battery life and the superior sound of ATRAC (nevermind that stupid comparative study, I'll trust what my own ears tell me, thank you very much).

I'm not great fan of the iPod. Most iPodders don't need the 20GB version. Remember this study?:

http://www.srgnet.com/pdf/375%20Tunes%20in...ep605-US-f).pdf

The average iPod user has 504 songs on it. But it makes for a fashion statement holding an iPod in your hand (even if it's not playing anything because it's battery is discharged!), or having a shuffle around your neck. I don't find iTunes particularly intuitive for what I need. But there's no denying that the features of the new one are attractive.

I don't need to hold my player in my hand. It's fine in its pocket. The NWHD1 fit in much better than other 20GB players. Didn't need to take it out either. Pushing buttons was easy to do with the player in the pocket. Then even easier with a minidisc remote.

I think Sony is still the only company that can come up with the ultimate player, if only they'd seriously work on developing their lab gadgets just as much as studying the market, as opposed to just developing their lab gadgets (or just studying the market).

[Rumz]

Gapless and EQ (even simple bass/treble boost make me happy). Those are why I still consider Sony.

The killer for me will be price / value. I have a handful of albums where gapless really is important, but the majority of my music I probably wouldn't miss it. If the sound quality is good enough I might be able to do without much EQ as well.

Value. $300 for 20 gigs or 30 gigs + other features like (however gimmicky) video and photo? Or what if 20 doesn't cut it for me? The 40 on my Vaio Pocket is going fast.

Accessories: I wish I had a wireless remote for m Vaio Pocket so I could hook it up to my stereo and control it from accross the room. It's kind of a pain having to move over to it each time I want to change groups/albums.

They're even saying the new iPod will have full stereo 44khz recording (i take it you just need the right accessory)-- suddenly it becomes really convenient to record on an iPod (I suppose that remains to be seen depending on the implementation of recording features).

I think Sony is on the right track, but they've lost some precious time.

[Ascariss]

Well, even though I haven't ordered my HDD unit (lack of time and school) I will be shortly.

Still, I am one of the few people in my group of friends who has a minidisc, everyone else has either an ipod, ipod mini or now nano. Sure you can change the look of the mini, but it nots very creative looking or well advanced if you ask me. The colours apple released remind me of halloween candy I used to get long ago.

All my music players have been sony from the very beginning, my first walkman was a sony. Eventually I got out of music and returned back in last 2 years of high school with a sony discman and minidisc. Both of which were top of the line when I got them. I still have the discman (not atrac though) but it is amazing. Sound is great and the thing basically mimics a CD.

As for my minidisc, everytime I show it to people who haven't seen one before or have heard of them, are shocked at the small size and well cool look of it. Not many music players have remotes and those that don't always come with LCDs on them. Sure I've seen panasonics discman with a remote and their MDs, but most people get the discman which is only good if it can play CD-RW's, and you can only fit a max of 80min on a cd, unless it is a mp3 cd player (which are pointless imo)

Most of Sony's products look great, and the select few I have had, have a solid built and haven't busted yet. My discman still works like a charm, and there isn't even a scratch on it, and it is a 2000 model used everyday for almost 3.5 years.

My MD is a 2002 and it is beginning to scratch in some places although nothing major. Must have something to do with the fact I use it even more than the discman.

Battery life is another feature, my MD outlasts any ipod out there for length of time i listen to it. The addon dry battery case can last me almost 1.5 weeks of using the MD to school, at school and on the way back. Which is 1.5 hours of commute each day, and roughly 5-6 hours of classes and breaks. There are some days I am listining to it 10 hours non stop at school. Why turn it off when all the prof is doing is writting on the overhead for an hour.

The remote is next, I know I mentioned it, but without it, I would go nuts, not sure I will get used to the HD3 with no remote, unless I use my old one.

I won't tell you not to get an ipod, if you feel that is what you want, go ahead and pick one up. I am sick of it, since a ton of people have it at my school, the local bookstore is an apple dealer, so no surprise there. It went from something special, which nobody had, to everyone owning one. Rather premium there huh.

[atrain]

i dont enjoy either the ipod ui or itunes.

itunes is about the worst software i've ever used, worse even than sonicstage. too many pc crashes, no tech support for pcs & no tech support on fan sites either [not like our beknighted little crew]

the ipod hardware is well built & has a great headphone amp but the clickwheel & battery life don't do it for me.

sony only has my vote because i like the hardware design.

[sane1]

i dont enjoy either the ipod ui or itunes.

itunes is about the worst software i've ever used, worse even than sonicstage. too many pc crashes, no tech support for pcs & no tech support on fan sites either [not like our beknighted little crew]

the ipod hardware is well built & has a great headphone amp but the clickwheel & battery life don't do it for me.

sony only has my vote because i like the hardware design.

←

yeah those are my reasons for prefering sony over iPod, but the lastest iTunes is actually a little better than ss 3.2. also, you got to give it to Apple for having the fastest mp3 finding DAP available... although the clickwheel is just too sensitive for me and anyways i prefer pressing buttons. sony should easily be able to come up with technology as fast or even faster than the clickwheel.. the g-sense was great.. if sony worked on it some more we could have a great new version of a vaio pocket w/ video playback.. too bad that's probably not gona happen.

my ideal sony player would be this: an HD1 like design and shape, but instead of the LCD screen they put a OLED screen, 60-80GB, no lag whatsoever (unlike my vaio pocket... errr), line-out on the unit (again unlike pocket), gapless playback for mp3s (unlike A series.. so sad), and the new search, bookmark, playlist, and shuffle features of the A series ... and that's basicaly it. again, it's probably not gona happen.

sony is slowly losing me as a fan...

[iyareu]

Thanks for the replies so far:

Gapless - Sony is the only one to really implement this. I listen to a lot of mix compilations and without it my enjoyment is really impacted.

Design and Hardware: Sony have great designers.

The Vaio pocket knocks socks of anything out there trying to do a similar thing. (iPod included!!)

Have a look at this pic :

This I think could have been a mock up - What's wrong with making it REAL.

It is of a VIDEO Vaio Pocket.

It would have kicked BUTT and I for one would have purchased it!!

There is no doubt that technically Sony kick but but in terms of giving people what they WANT they lag behind.

What do I want :

1. A product that has some longevity - or even if upgraded has some consistency.

i.e. not to have to move because they discontinue my product and don;t provide a replacement!!

2. Accessories so that it can FIT INTO my life - I don;t want to have to fit around it.

3. Use of excellent technology - which in ATRAC3+ I have - it is GREAT compression and great for space saving. Knocks MP3 out of the water. Ditching DRM on it just makes it really portable which is what I want!!

4. hey other thing I want is for SONY to do these things. They have the know-how and I think the savvy to do it. I am just under the impression that they are ready to ditch quite passionate customers and I can't find a business reason for that.

Whenever Apple have released a new product it has been to enhance their market share or to replace something they were taking off the market.

i.e. - Shuffle came in so they have something in that lower end of the market. Minimum functionality but excellent ease of use.

Mini to Nano - they added colour screen to what was a great size already. Remember when they replaced it the Mini was the best selling MP3 player in the WORLD. In the first 15 days they sold 2million Nano's (if Steve Jobs is to be believed and we forget the problem with the screens breaking).

Now they release the new iPod - it takes the capacity of entry level iPods UP to 30GB and adds functionality.

Sony have released in the last 20 months or so:

HiMD - ATRAC3+ only

Hi-MD2 - ATRAC3+ + MP3 (plus photos)

Stick shaped network walkman (ATRAC3+, MP3 + radio)

Round shaped network walkman (ATRAC3+, MP3 + radio)

Bean shaped network walkman(ATRAC3+, MP3 + radio)

NW-HD1 - ATRAC3+ only 20GB

NW-HD3 - ATRAC3+ and MP3 - 20GB

NW-HD5 - ATRAC3+ and MP3 AND up to 30gb

NWA series walkman 6 and 20GB

Plus the Vaio Pocket - 20 and 40GB

I don't see the progression. I don;t see the development. I see engineer led releases not market or customer need led releases.

Each product is technically WONDERFUL - I love the idea of the bean players - I would love to buy one as a gift for someone (if I didn't have to shackle them to SonicStage).

I would just like to feel like continuing to buy Sony is actually better for me not just some misplaced loyalty in a company which doesn't want my custom.

I just filled out a survey Sony are doing on SonicStage - at no time did they ask what I thought of the interface - the questions focused on whether i used it more that itunes or an equivalent.

I HAVE A SONY DAP - WHY WOULD I BE USING ITUNES. I HAVE NO CHOICE, I HAVE TO USED SONICSTAGE!!!.

I just hope that there are some Sony bods reading these threads - maybe they can salvage something - otherwise the DAP using public will simply vote with their feet and wallets.

I am still undecided - Is Walkman or iPod in my future???

[Dinko]

I am still undecided - Is Walkman or iPod in my future???

Short term: Walkman

Mid term (1-2 years): a switch to non-Sony player

Long term (2 years from now): back to Sony because they'll have the ultimate DAP.

[sane1]

Short term: Walkman

Mid term (1-2 years): a switch to non-Sony player

Long term (2 years from now): back to Sony because they'll have the ultimate DAP.

←

yeah in 2 years they'll have a DAP that's better than the 5G iPod, while Apple will already have a 6-7G iPod out. drastic measures need to be taken by sony for them to even keep up with the iPod.

[lxrichbirdxl]

One reason, gapless.

The iPods cannot play anything gaplessly. Sure, there is a workaround using AAC and AAC chapter tool, but so far that's Mac only, and only for AAC. Apple kept releasing nice products at good prices, and tons of accessories too, but until they can do gapless, I will still consider Sony as a choice, and I know it's hard since Sony is not doing things right.

←

Ya, two reasons for me...

Gapless audio, then the sound quality, that includes feature like a 6-band custom EQ, which only Sony appears to have it. If iPod or any other players don't hv that, I wouldn't buy...

Apple seems to not care about any of that, cuz most listeners don't really care about anything except the hip factor. I really wonder, why does one need so many DAP settings, such as rock, pop, electronic, or even bass, tremble, etc. Just one or two custom EQ would be more than enough. Lastly I want to say that iPod really sounds like sh!t, and if only I don't care sound quality like a noob, I would bite the apple.

[sane1]

Ya, two reasons for me...

Gapless audio, then the sound quality, that includes feature like a 6-band custom EQ, which only Sony appears to have it. If iPod or any other players don't hv that, I wouldn't buy...

Apple seems to not care about any of that, cuz most listeners don't really care about anything except the hip factor. I really wonder, why does one need so many DAP settings, such as rock, pop, electronic, or even bass, tremble, etc. Just one or two custom EQ would be more than enough. Lastly I want to say that iPod really sounds like sh!t, and if only I don't care sound quality like a noob, I would bite the apple.

←

actually, the ipod's SQ is quite impressive and a lot of audiophiles swear by it, espeically it's line-out which is considered to be the best out of all the DAP players. if you don't believe me check out the head-fi.com forum. i own the Westone UM2's and have tried my friend's 4G iPod (headphone out) and have to say it's a very clean, high quality sound. the only thing it was missing was a good base response, which is actually very important to me. that is why i love my Vaio Pocket's SQ so much. anyways, the new iPod's are supposed to sound as good as the shuffle which is probably the best sounding mp3 player on the market with a very impressive bass response.

wow i just stood up for an iPod.....................

[Dinko]

that includes feature like a 6-band custom EQ, which only Sony appears to have it.

The large capacity RCA Lyra players have that. I'm not sure if it's 5 or 6 band, but there is a pretty decent custom EQ.

[iyareu]

I must admit - Sound quality is important to me too.

The only issue I have is that for the most part I will be listening to the player whilst out on the road or in environments that would impede me getting the most out of great sound quality.

hence the HD-270 headphones.

Closed back and monitor standard so that I get to hear all the music as best I can.

I must admit 1am listening is wonderful on the Sony and I am not convinced about the base on the iPod .

This would only be a real issue if I listened to it through my stereo a lot which is not the case.

I am however thinking of getting some high quality speakers to dedicate to my portable player as it has all my music on it.

Currently when I need to I push it through my DAV S-master which is not too bad.

CES say the HD5 has the best sound of al the HDD DAPs

http://www.cnet.com.au/mp3players/harddisk...40055443,00.htm

So reason I would feel bad leaving Sony - the sound quality/price ratio is better than most.

[lxrichbirdxl]

actually, the ipod's SQ is quite impressive and a lot of audiophiles swear by it, espeically it's line-out which is considered to be the best out of all the DAP players. if you don't believe me check out the head-fi.com forum. i own the Westone UM2's and have tried my friend's 4G iPod (headphone out) and have to say it's a very clean, high quality sound. the only thing it was missing was a good base response, which is actually very important to me. that is why i love my Vaio Pocket's SQ so much. anyways, the new iPod's are supposed to sound as good as the shuffle which is probably the best sounding mp3 player on the market with a very impressive bass response.

wow i just stood up for an iPod.....................

←

Well, I still prefer Sony. Cuz, only the custom EQ allows me to distort the guitar riffs, and unlike other DAP, in which bass(..and it sounds artificial, cuz it's boosted) is often too much the focus. Only if we customise ourselves the EQs, then we might get the best settings that really fit.

The large capacity RCA Lyra players have that. I'm not sure if it's 5 or 6 band, but there is a pretty decent custom EQ.

←

I'll check it out.

[dskywalker]

I'm in no way a sony fanboy. But for some reason I've always ended up using sony stuff. My first cd-player, my vaio notebook, vaio pocket, and now the hd5. I love my hd5 by the way. To me, sony mp3 player is always somewhat technically advance, but never really appeal (or well-known) to general public. For example, atrac. It's been proven to be much better than mp3 at the same bit rate. But most average consumers wont appreciate the format and feel frustrated that they have to convert their mp3 collections into something else. Not many realizes that the 20G sony player could actually be a 30G-40G player! Another example, the concept of "unit" on hd5. I think it's a wonderful feature that's not in iPod. But I hardly hear ppl talk about it. About the line-out sound quality, I think vaio pocket and hd5 are on par with the iPod. I've tested all the units with my HD-600 and supermacro v3 headamp. Not much difference there. Honestly, I don't like the looks of the new sony network walkmans much. But maybe, sony will surpise me with some "hidden" advance technologies and features that not many will know about. And that's the reason why I may still "stick" with sony.

[Richard_p]

This thread has been an interesting read for me, as i have officially declared my vaio pocket dead! I think it may be a hard disk problem but it always crashes and must be reset, the crash seems to be triggered by a squeeze on the unit.

Anyway bottom line is i'm looking for a new DAP, one that will last! (i have had numerous Sony MD's all of which have broke, together with the vaio making me question their build quality) Problem is have been spoilt by the pocket:

i love it's more mature looks it doesn't go for minimalist trendy like a certain player *cough*cough* but still looks the part (see iyareu's avatar for example...)

then there's the 40gb capacity - hard to come by now that there's a trend for flash based players, few seem to exceed 20gb, with a HDD.

Also there's the rather frivolous colour screen, admittedly this is not an essential feature but it's nice to have album art. No sony MP3 player seems to have kept this feature.

Lastly, GAPLESS!! surely it can't be that difficult for other manufacturers to implement. Since i listen to EDM this is of huge importance to me, whether it be a mixed compilation, live DJ set or perhaps most importantly a smooth, flowing chilled out mix mad up of the most beutiful tracks when i'm relaxing. I don't think i could handle a silence during a transition throwing of concentration to the music.

Sony seem to offer no replacement for the vaio, which was a great (though admittedly not perfect, lag no custom EQ, flawed searching) player. I'd prefer not to go 20gb as that's half of what i used to have which was already had 11gb used. The closest sony offer is the 30gb HD5, but at £230 it puts it in the range of 40GB Gigabeat and 30gb X5, and 30gb Video iPod (I'm a passionate ipod hater ), all of which have those oh-so-pretty colour screens and the latter two even do video. Although i do have a PSP for vid playing.

Do i stay with sony for gapless play with it's their questionable build qualty (did i mention i'm on my 4th PS2) and less features or move to something without gapless that won't have the 'curse' all of my sony products seem to have and will have some nifty features (that i don't really neeed...).

Edited October 22, 2005 by Richard_p

[iyareu]

HooRayy!! someone with the same dilemma as me.

Sorry to hear about the demise of your Vaio Pocket.

Truth be told - that is not even funny!!

Do I stay with sony for gapless play with it's their questionable build qualty (did i mention i'm on my 4th PS2) and less features or move to something without gapless that won't have the 'curse' all of my sony products seem to have and will have some nifty features (that i don't really neeed...).

←

I have had several bits of Sony kit and have found that the build quality has been fine on all but one piece (MH-G750 Minidisc with radio) and this was a design fault. So I can't say I have experience of questionable build quality really.

I had the SonyD-NE115 (RED) which was excellent - dropped it many times and it worked fine again and again!! Then the D-NE 900 which is a thing of beauty and built like a very light BRICK. Also I have the MZ-NH900 which is robust (too much plastic though) but has taken a knock or two and still looks and works fine. (touch wood)

I now have the Vaio pocket and in terms of design it is streets ahead of anything I have seen on the market.

The problem I have is that Sony don't seem to believe in their own products.

re: features we don't need:

I can remember when I thought I would never need more than 5 CD's with me on any given day.

Then I got a minidisc player and a world of digital recording opened up for me. I had about one CD's worth at a time and didn't complain much.

Then MDLP came and I could, have 4 CD's per disc which I thought was ample. Chuck a few discs in the bag and you are away!!

Then I got the ATRAC CD player and thought I would never need more that 5 cd's of 22 albums each on any given day.

I now have he Vaio pocket with over 10400 tracks on it still have space for 1000 more at least. I am however in a dilemma because I know I will soon need more space.

Who is to say that I will not feel that video is something essential in a year's time.

When people ask me what they should buy when it comes to technology I always say that they should get the best their money can get right now and they will get to use the features and come to love and rely on them.

I cannot imagine not having my whole music collection with me all the time.

The other day I was forced to carry just the minidisc player with me with a disc of about 25 albums on it (Hi MD 1GB disc). I was walking round feeling restricted - enjoying the music playing but knowing that there was so much music I simply didn't have access to - I was shocked at myself - (talk about GREEDY and CHOICE OBSESSED!!)

So when Sony simply don't innovate and make the most of their technological edge I am amazed and perplexed.

Edited October 24, 2005 by iyareu

[Schizo.Rabby]

Having served three years in the iPod Insurgency, I now feel some primal urge to return to Sony. (my first music player ever was an AIWA walkman)

But as iyareu pointed out, the new ipod with video is, quite frankly, technologically advanced to what Sony's offering (gapless aside).

So as a fresh recruit to Squadron Sony all ready for indoctrination, should I get a VAIO Pocket, wait for the new NW-A3000, or wait even longer and hope that Sony makes a colour-screend, ultra-thin HD player??

[Guest Stuge]

I don`t know whether i will back my most loving company (Sony) or i will shift non-sony players.It only depends on how well r they going to do in future.I think sony is going to overtake in long term future Apple i-pod b`coz they have better technology than apple.

[iyareu]

I don`t know whether i will back my most loving company (Sony) or i will shift non-sony players.It only depends on how well r they going to do in future.I think sony is going to overtake in long term future Apple  i-pod b`coz they have better technology than apple.

←

I agree completly about the better technology thing. Every time otehrs have overtaken them Sony have come back with better technology but the problem with that is that people don't buy great technology unless it is made to look incredibly simple and fits into their lives at the time of buying.

e.g.

Take the original Walkman (tape). It was not revolutionary in technology but what was revolutionary was what was done with the technology to make it simple and it then fit into people's lives by allowing them to listen to music on the go in a really simple way. 'Put the tape in, press play and keep on walkin'.

The ipod changed the way people lived because they were already used to the 'walkman thing' - now they could put in their CD collection and with literally the touch of NO buttons (put a CD in and it is ripped automatically and connect the ipod and it is updated immediately) they could have their whole CD collection with them in a SIMPLE to use SMALL gizmo. Add to this that it comes from an Aspirational company known for ease of use and the popularity of ipod over DAP's with better technology is clear. Apple have made iPod simple and make it FIT into people's lives.

Take synchronisation for example - All the companies could have implemented this but Apple's implementation is by far the simplest I have seen.

If Sony made their 'better technology' simple and placed it in the lives of consumers (this would entail listening to those consumers) they would easily be on to a winner.

If Sony don't make things simpler and listen to customers then I can't see them overtaking Apple in this arena - even in the future.

Like all things - I could be wrong but I can't currently see the counter argument.

And that is from someone who's technology is all sony - TV, DAP, Home Cinema MD etc.

Bit of a lengthy one sorry about that.

[Richard_p]

Just a lil' update on my situation, basically with the help of some superglue i have improved the stability of my Vaio Pocket player, it has crashed a couple of times since the fix but i think i'll just keep it for a little longer as no current DAP, sony or otherwise is particularly inspiring at the moment.

I think regardless of technology it will be a while before any company can overtake Apple in markety share due the current ipod fad, ask yourself how amny poeple use the term iPod when referring to a DAP? the answer, quite alot.

Apple have built up 'cool & easy' image for their product which people really seem to go for, also as has probably been mentioned before their market saturation has became such that many people don't seem to know of the qualities of aternatives.

However, i must admit that the iPod's popularity on Headfi does suggest that it has some substantive qualities aswell as it's style as presumably, they do know of it's competitors but are still dedicated pod people.

[mercury_in_flames]

To each his own. Some like 'flat' sound that is 'close the original', others like their music sounding well, not like that. As this is a mostly sony owners place,, Do they notice the ipod has a pointless e.q or do their headphone amp's actually make use of the e.q?

[iyareu]

Just a lil' update on my situation, basically with the help of some superglue i have improved the stability of my Vaio Pocket player, it has crashed a couple of times since the fix but i think i'll just keep it for a little longer as no current DAP, sony or otherwise is particularly inspiring at the moment.

I think regardless of technology it will be a while before any company can overtake Apple in markety share due the current ipod fad, ask yourself how amny poeple use the term iPod when referring to a DAP? the answer, quite alot.

Apple have built up 'cool & easy' image for their product which people really seem to go for, also as has probably been mentioned before their market saturation has became such that many people don't seem to know of the qualities of aternatives.

However, i must admit that the iPod's popularity on Headfi does suggest that it has some substantive qualities aswell as it's style as presumably, they do know of it's competitors but are still dedicated pod people.

←

Thank God your pocket is working again!!

I agree as mentioned before about the lack of nspiration in the DAP market - I had a play with the video ipod recently and whilst I loved the features, I am still under whelmed by he package. I'll stick to the pocket for now.

What you said about what apple have built is exactly on the money to my mind. And it is this that makes the so challenging to deal with. Sony is in the best position to do it but has to have the will and self awareness - we shall see.

U R right - people don't know about alternatives.

I use my player for work - I am a trainer ad when I play music from it through speakers - people ask -

"So is that an Ipod then?"

and I say

"No - it is a Sony player".

Then they invariably say -

"A Sony ipod? Looks nicer than the usual ones doesn't it?"

GRRRRRRRRR!!

We shall see how Sony respond - I just hope they don;t ditch us and the MD community with the new Connect Player.

I just had both iTunes and Sony Connect Store up on my PC to compare layout - O my gosh.

When compared Sony have so much work to do.

Their site is seriously lack in appeal.

Remember iTunes and Sony connect have the same issue - captive audiences.

People who buy their kit HAVE to use their shop to buy tunes.

The user experience is so different for each. It boggles the mind!!

[Richard_p]

I have never bought anything with connect or Itunes, what do tou get? is it not just a standard MP3 file? if so then i would expect to be able to just import it into your library and transfer it your DAP.

I have have bought from audiojelly.com and just did as described above, no problems.

i'll be keeping my VP at least until christmas. People around my college and the Pizza Hut i work at have no idea what it is either. It's not a pod so it's totally foreign to them - one guy at work even thought it was a PSP :WTF: i like the exclusivity of it though

[iyareu]

I have never bought anything with connect or Itunes, what do you get? is it not just a standard MP3 file? if so then i would expect to be able to just import it into your library and transfer it your DAP.

I have have bought from audiojelly.com and just did as described above, no problems.

i'll be keeping my VP at least until christmas. People around my college and the Pizza Hut i work at have no idea what it is either. It's not a pod so it's totally foreign to them - one guy at work even thought it was a PSP :WTF: i like the exclusivity of it though

←

True.

I've never 'bought' any tracks from connect or itunes myself BUT I have received quite a few vouchers from Sony and downloaded the tracks from connect.

Ordinarily I just get mp3's and import them. In fact I am still a CD buyer - I like to know that if my HDD went down I would have an original I could refer back to. (however I very rarely listen to music on CD nowadays - very rarely indeed).

The exclusivity thing is mega. I travel on the train between cities a lot and have the VP on the table next to my laptop and people just don't know what to make of it - when they ask and are shown they like it a lot - another reason for my vexation at Sony calling a halt on VP production and not replacing it with something with similar features. !!!

It seems I am not the only one with a VP which almost full who is not sure where to go from here.

The technology out there is not promising.

If only the PSP had a 40GB HDD in it - That would make some sense but it would be a little too big.

I just want a walkman

that has at least 40 GB

can play atrac3+ AND MP3 (And possibly WMA) AND

can do video (or pics at least as the VP can - but with some more control on how the pics are browsed and has video out)

In addition I would like software that works and integrates seamlessly into my digital life. (A-la WMP-10)

(Most -not all- of these things are currently achieved by other manufacturers)

Is this so much to ask from the people who invented the walkman (the very concept of personal music play).

I don't think so but they obviously do!!

[Richard_p]

Same here with the CD buying, i only but Mp3's as a last resort - Ie; i can't find the CD to buy anywhere.

As for my next step, probably by christmas i am playing with the idea of either a 30GB HD5 or may simply get another VP. The features i want are over 20GB (would like another 40 but so few have this) and gapless playback, it's really the gapless playback which is pulling me back to sony as most of my music is EDM mixes so a pause would really spoil the flow. It'd also be advantageous to just be able retransfer my existing files to the new device from sonicstage.

As i said before then my only options seem to the hd5 or another VP. Major prolems with these are the fact that they have both been discontinued. As of this post there are two HD5H's on ebay, both from the same seller and a froogle search returns just two actual results for it , one of which is £229 and the other £205 but witha suspiciously long despatch time (may not be in stock). I don't want to pay £230 as it bring it into the same price range as the following;

1. iAudio X5 - 30gb, Colour screen, vid playback. £239 or £254 for X5L (black )

2. Samsung YH-J70L - 30gb, colour screen, vid playback. £230 (only available in white in UK )

3. Toshiba Gigabeat F40 - 40gb, colour screen, pics only. £240 (strange shade of 'champagne silver' )

prices quoted form adavancedmp3players.co.uk

VP only available on ebay as a US import, so warranty is pretty much a gray area, not helped by it being axed by sony. Getting one of these will also not have the 'new toy' feel which i like so much.

HD5 axe will make warranty a bit dodgy too, as well as the fact that it may have to be an ebay purchase, even if i do buy a UK one. Whilst this will have the 'new toy' fee, it may prove underwhelming with it's smaller drive and monochrome screen after having a VP. However i am growing to like it's looks and it is a nice size especially after the rather bulky VP (which was'nt really that bad once i got used to it).

I think the problem with the chioce of sony (and most other makes) players is that the casual listener market is by far the biggest and so they are aiming they're players at them not us more demanding folk. this can be seen by the amount of players out theire with less than 10 gig storage. There's even an emerging scene of full blown PMP's with flash based memory (1gb - 2gb).

[Guest Stuge]

However i am growing to like it's looks and it is a nice size especially after the rather bulky VP (which was'nt really that bad once i got used to it).

Here u r right about Vaio Pocket since it bulk that`s why i think Sony has shut the progress here.But many of us want Vp b`coz of its colour screen which we don`t get in NW-HD5

Edited November 18, 2005 by Stuge