Limits On Transferring A Recording From Hi-md

[fuzzy_aladdin]

Can someone enlighten me to the limitations of transferring a recording from Hi-MD to PC?

Here's how I'm understanding it:

1. A recording can only be transferred once from Hi-MD to PC. What I'm *not* understanding is when the Hi-MD is flagged that the recording has been transferred - is it before the transfer starts, or after the successful transfer?

2. The recording will still remain on the MD but can no longer be transferred anywhere?

3. If you record a file from PC to MD, you can only return it to the same PC - meaning if you lose your HD and want to restore songs from MD, you're out of luck.

The thing that worries me most is when the Hi-MD is flagged. It seems rather nfair to flag the disc *before* transferring as many things might go wrong during transfer -program crash, system lockup, hard drive failure, who knows what. Right now when I transfer songs from my MD to PC I sit on pins and needles praying nothing will go wrong because I worry that if somethign does I'll lose the ability to transfer that recording.

Shed some light on these ideas please?

Flint

[The_Stamp]

2 and 3: yes. and yes. sucks dont it.

1: I'm not sure, but, being sony, i think it would be befor ethe transfer. that way, ity would null any possiblity of you uploading (using sonicsage ) then unplugging before the flagging is done.

[Syrius]

Keep in mind any music file you transfer to your PC can be converted from any flavor of OMA into WAV, FLAC, MP3 LAME, or OGG using Marcnet's Hi-MDRenderer. Then you can archive that file as raw data on a MD using simple drag and drop, burn it to CD, upload it to a server or even your own webmail account (Hello Hotmail with 250 MB of storage.) Then you can import that file as many times as you want into Sonicstage, and do unlimited checkouts.

Think of Marc's utility as the Red Pill that will free us from the control of the SonicMatrix.

I must note, that I have had two upload errors on a MD due to dirty or faulty discs, BUT Sonicstage didn't erase such files and kept on uploading the ones behind that. Any file that didn't get uploaded wasn't flagged nor erased from the disc. The ones that uploaded successfully and got flagged didn't get deleted due to the error caused by the faulty one.

It seems to me that Sony finally got it right with SS 3. (And if you are reading this, Sony, remember: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. )

Edited April 18, 2005 by Syrius

[dex Otaku]

1. A recording can only be transferred once from Hi-MD to PC. What I'm *not* understanding is when the Hi-MD is flagged that the recording has been transferred - is it before the transfer starts, or after the successful transfer?

Yes, only once.

Going by what happened when SS before v2.3 botched tracks, it gets changed -before- the upload, which is why an incomplete upload would botch the tracks on the disc itself.

2. The recording will still remain on the MD but can no longer be transferred anywhere?

Correct. This is the entire idea behind DRM - put it on the medium, but make it uncopyable.

3. If you record a file from PC to MD, you can only return it to the same PC - meaning if you lose your HD and want to restore songs from MD, you're out of luck.

Actually, you can't return recordings to the PC, either. Once you've transferred something to MD or Hi-MD, you can only erase the track.

[The_Stamp]

lol i thought it actually uploaded the downloaded track for hi-md.. and i was going to prove you wrong dex. but, i actually did some research/testing before posting and found that it actually doesnt upload the song. thats freakin weird. thats dumb. i see no DRM breach by uploading to your own computer. well, theres something i learned today.

i actually did think it would upload.. nooooooooo!

[grimleyj]

Hold on ... what's this all about?

I just ordered a RH-10 strictly for field recording (I'm a musician) and have no intention of using it as a playback device.

I was planning to record samples as wav files, upload them to the PC and edit them in SoundForge before loading them into my samplers. Will this work with all this DRM garbage?

Thanks,

grimley

[dex Otaku]

I just ordered a RH-10 strictly for field recording (I'm a musician) and have no intention of using it as a playback device.

I was planning to record samples as wav files, upload them to the PC and edit them in SoundForge before loading them into my samplers.  Will this work with all this DRM garbage?

Yes, it will work, many of us [including myself] are using HiMD for exactly this purpose.

See here:

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=7436

[grimleyj]

Phew ... thanks Dex!

My rh10 just arrived and is currently charging. This is my first MD unit and I'm excited to try it out.

I'm off to download HiMDRenderer now. I take it this is recommended over the Sony software?

Thanks,

grimley

Yes, it will work, many of us [including myself] are using HiMD for exactly this purpose.

See here:

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=7436

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[dex Otaku]

Since SS 3.0 I have only been using it to export, actually [sorry marc =\ ]. Reliability has increased several orders of magnitude as has accessibility [being able to do it by simply right-clicking the track in SS's library].

There's also the fact that the only alternate format I use with HiMDRenderer is FLAC, and the FLAC files it generates cause stream errors in Foobar2000 [my primary audio player]. [The files are still usable with anything other than fb2k]

I still use HiMDRenderer when I want to export tracks that are not uploaded from HiMD.

Also, if you're going to be recording with the optical input, HiMDRenderer is your only choice for exporting tracks.

[kooterb]

A safe method, I have used, is to record the MD music using

Total Recorder or Audacity Digital to record the music to WAV.

You will get one large file and then can edit it down. It is

slower then SS(real time), but the sound is about the same, depending on your sound card.

KooterB

Since SS 3.0 I have only been using it to export, actually [sorry marc =\ ].  Reliability has increased several orders of magnitude as has accessibility [being able to do it by simply right-clicking the track in SS's library].

There's also the fact that the only alternate format I use with HiMDRenderer is FLAC, and the FLAC files it generates cause stream errors in Foobar2000 [my primary audio player].  [The files are still usable with anything other than fb2k]

I still use HiMDRenderer when I want to export tracks that are not uploaded from HiMD. 

Also, if you're going to be recording with the optical input, HiMDRenderer is your only choice for exporting tracks.

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[marcnet]

Strange that flac bug thing... Ill take a look as soon as I get the bits for my new PC and have set it up (Current PC died)

[dex Otaku]

Strange that flac bug thing... Ill take a look as soon as I get the bits for my new PC and have set it up (Current  PC died)

←

While you're at it, how about FLAC options that actually resemble FLAC options, i.e. packing level from 1-8 and such?

[A good place to compare with is the interface for FLAC that actually comes -with- FLAC; the options you currently have for the dll don't resemble the FLAC options in any other program I've used that uses FLAC.]

[Syrius]

Marc, you may want to know that any audio CD I put together using the FLAC files from HiMDRenderer and Nero with the FLAC plugin come off as silence, but are perfectly playable on JetAudio.

Not a problem, since I can simply convert to WAV and then use JetAudio to compress to FLAC, but I thought I should let you know.

Thanks.

[Artstar]

A safe  method, I have used, is to record the MD music using

Total Recorder or Audacity Digital to record the music to WAV.

You will get one large file and then can edit it down. It is

slower then SS(real time), but the sound is about the same, depending on your sound card.

KooterB

←

Depending on the sound card? It (Total Recorder) is definitely the best money spent on a piece of software of this nature because I get a 100% accurate digital copy of my recordings. The software works as another sound card and merely takes the sound data in from the source and dumps to a file, so I can't see how it could be sound card dependent?

Nevertheless, the quality of my first ever recording on it turned out superb. The Megadeth live concert sounds brilliant and there's no way I'd risk it with Sonicstage.

Edited April 19, 2005 by Artstar

[fuzzy_aladdin]

Yes, only once.

Going by what happened when SS before v2.3 botched tracks, it gets changed -before- the upload, which is why an incomplete upload would botch the tracks on the disc itself.

Correct.  This is the entire idea behind DRM - put it on the medium, but make it uncopyable.

Actually, you can't return recordings to the PC, either.  Once you've transferred something to MD or Hi-MD, you can only erase the track.

←

Well it seems we still don't have a REALLY CLEAR CUT answer as to when the actual flagging occurs - I might just test it myself by recording something unncessary and just pulling the cable during transfer. I'll let everyone know for sure then.

Sony's DRM makes sense for tracks copied to MD (they want to ensure you don't just hand your friends MD's of your music), but I really think the one-upload limit for YOUR OWN RECORDINGS is silly. Chances are most of what people are recording either is not really copyrighted at all (meetings, lectures, their own bands, etc) or even if it is, a person would be exercising timeshift rights (recording from a radio, TV, etc.) or the right to have their music in whatever format they want (copying from CD or DAT to MD directly via optical.) You can buy voice recorders that allow you to upload as many times as you want. You can even get MP3 plaers with built in recorders that can do the same. Roland even has a device that records MP3 files directly to CF cards and it's marketed for musical recording. Sony really dropped the ball by enforcing strict DRM on a person's own recordings. It is a step ahead of NetMD but really...why not just make your own recorded tracks unprotected?

Yeah, a dude who had time on his hands could record his CD's to MD using an optical line, and then distribute the discs...But seriously. How many people have that much time? And you could only master a single disc - if you copy the files to PC then to another MD you already enforce the DRM.

BTW, is it true that if you do attempt to upload an already-uploaded recording a second time, it actually gets wiped from MD? Another rumor I've heard.

[marcnet]

While you're at it, how about FLAC options that actually resemble FLAC options, i.e. packing level from 1-8 and such?

[A good place to compare with is the interface for FLAC that actually comes -with- FLAC; the options you currently have for the dll don't resemble the FLAC options in any other program I've used that uses FLAC.]

←

FLAC support came into HIMDRenderer like this (and this also describes my entire FLAC usage): I had never heard of FLAC before. Someone wanted this file format supported. I used google and got the SDK. I implemented FLAC support using the SDK. I tested a few output files with winamp. It worked. The end.

I also have no idea what the FLAC options in HIMDRenderer mean. I just copied their description from the related SDK function. Basically The FLAC options in HIMDRenderer directly set the related FLAC option in the SDK. I have no idea how to translate user-friendly options to the options the SDK gives me.

Any suggestions?

[dex Otaku]

FLAC support came into HIMDRenderer like this (and this also describes my entire FLAC usage): I had never heard of FLAC before. Someone wanted this file format supported. I used google and got the SDK. I implemented FLAC support using the SDK. I tested a few output files with winamp. It worked. The end. 

I also have no idea what the FLAC options in HIMDRenderer mean. I just copied their description from the related SDK function. Basically The FLAC options in HIMDRenderer directly set the related FLAC option in the SDK. I have no idea how to translate user-friendly options to the options the SDK gives me. 

Any suggestions?

←

God. The consequences of posting while drunk. Thanks for at least seeming to not be offended.

FLAC itself comes with a little program called "FLAC frontend". Most of the interfaces I've seen so far [only 3-4] seem to follow the basics presented in it. It appears to be made by someone named Speek; eir address is included in the about box as speek at myrealbox dot com; perhaps the frontend is a place to start.

[mrsoul]

BTW, is it true that if you do attempt to upload an already-uploaded recording a second time, it actually gets wiped from MD? Another rumor I've heard.

←

Not a rumor, if you try to upload a track that has already been uploaded, it will remove it without even telling you. At least it worked that way in SS 2.3. I have NOT tested it since. I might play around with that this week in 3.0 to test.

[mrsoul]

It does the same (delete files previously uploaded without warning) in 3.0, only faster :-)

[Syrius]

May I suggest JetAudio, a free player, encoder, and ripper (You have to pay if you want MP3 support, though) that can convert any uploaded wav file to any flavor of SPEEX, APE, FLAC, OptimFrog, WMA lossless and some others? I have to do it this way after uploading my wav files from MD, since I can control the compression ratio when using FLAC. (Not knocking Hi-MD Renderer, Marc, I just want more control over my FLAC files.)

I'm not sure if this is a good option for others here, but:

1: Uploading my recordings through SS (Hi-Sp and PCM),

2: Running Hi-MD Renderer to remove the DRM stuff on wav or encode with Lame-MP3,

3: Converting to WMA lossless or FLAC with Jet Audio, and

4: Removing the OMA files after converting them with Marc's utility

Enables me to enjoy my music the way I want it, when I want it, where I want it. (Yeah, there's re-importing my Wav's into SS if needed, but there are no restrictions nor "Optimized Files" eating up HDD space)

Edited April 21, 2005 by Syrius

[dex Otaku]

I have to do it this way after uploading my wav files from MD, since I can control the compression ratio when using FLAC. (Not knocking Hi-MD Renderer, Marc, I just want more control over my FLAC files.)

This is what I use FLAC Frontend for.

[1kyle]

Well it seems we still don't have a REALLY CLEAR CUT answer as to when the actual flagging occurs - I might just test it myself by recording something unncessary and just pulling the cable during transfer. I'll let everyone know for sure then.

Sony's DRM makes sense for tracks copied to MD (they want to ensure you don't just hand your friends MD's of your music), but I really think the one-upload limit for YOUR OWN RECORDINGS is silly.

.....

BTW, is it true that if you do attempt to upload an already-uploaded recording a second time, it actually gets wiped from MD? Another rumor I've heard.

←

One way to get round this (assuming you don't BUY any music from any download service) is to use SS 3.0 to BACKUP UP your library and then restore it on to Computer 2.

Ensure you've uploaded your MD music to your library before you start.

What actually happens in this case is that on Computer 2 any existing library is replaced by the one you are restoring (from Computer 1) . You need a short connection to the internet before the restore beginbs --this just checks for authorisation for "Purchased" music -- which I don't have any of so the authorisation always passes.

I use this a lot as I travel a bit and want to copy music to my laptop.

It's a round about way of getting your MD stuff uploaded into another computer but it works.

I agree with most posters that the DRM stuff really sucks when it makes it a hassle for you to distribute YOUR OWN MUSIC.

Incidentally your Music Library on Computer 1 is not affected in any way by the copy to computer 2. It still works just like it did before the backup -- and you can backup and restore as many times as you like.

By judicious use of this method you should be able to "upload" your MD stuff to as many computers as you want.

If you purchase music and have purchased tracks in the library then all bets are off as the DRM will probably hoze it up bigtime -- but for non purchased music method outlined above works pefectly.

There's no problems uploading music from SS TO the minidisc --you can do this as many times as you like from whatever computer the library is on so the trick to get music (or recording) FROM an MD is to COPY THE LIBRARY !!!! (via the SS backup and restore).

Whilst it's only a partial loophole it saves messing around in Real Time and of course you do get 100% digital copies.

Cheers

-K

Edited April 23, 2005 by 1kyle