my first steps as a stealth recordist

[MadMaster]

i love the osdorp posse! can't understand a word mind you.

←

Well, Im Dutch, so I do understand what their lyrics are about, but for here it's irrelevant, it's about the recording itself.

But probably you do know the music, it's based on 'No Sleep 'Till Brooklyn' from The Beastie Boys.

Edited September 7, 2005 by MadMaster

[MZ-1]

greenmachine,

Here's a picture of the mic and box I built some years ago.

Paul

[greenmachine]

Now that's a real 'box'. Does it really have to be that sturdy? Looks like a tank could drive over it.

[MZ-1]

Yep, a cast aluminum box with four screws. It will out live me!

I doubt it has to be that sturdy or that large. It was a first attempt from years ago built to withstand the "rigors" of live recording. The switch made things quite complicated. Also, the box was over built with independent 9V power supplies, so there are two 9V batteries in the box. Your design of "plug in the battery" as the "switch" makes much more sense.

Paul

Edited September 10, 2005 by MZ-1

[greenmachine]

You don't even need to disconnect the battery. There is no current flow if you disconnect the mics, thus Volta's 'box' can be taped.

[MZ-1]

That's it! Need to get some mic elements, a couple of 10K resistors, 9V clip, a couple of capacitors, and some black, cheap earbuds.

Time to retire the "brick" and make version two binaural!

Paul

[minispecs]

Low Volta please marry me! :-) You are the best!!! I adore your setup and your stealth mode! Okay, so I'm overeacting, but heck you are one cool dude!

I could only dream to be you! But I try...with my in ear mics...they really don't work that great. I hope to try something else, but I find myself up front most of the time since I'm a fan!

minispecs

[minispecs]

wow you went to way to much effort, but thats awsome!

when i go to live gigs, that i want to record i sualy bring my trusty Sony MZ-N910 with a Lion stick and an extra AA added on, with a self built 2-way "T" Shaped stereo mic, similar to the one sony sells, but at a fraction of the price(the parts cost $3au from radio parts as if id pay $150 for the sony).

Leon

I'm curious as to what this setup looks like. Do you have pictures? I'd love to see them. Also, I'm trying to imagine what a show recorded from the rear sounds like! Do you have any clips?

Minispecs!

[The Low Volta]

lol minispecs... I'm afraid the g-friend wouldn't like that

my setup really was inspired by greenmachine's brilliant mics and B-box and also his idea of attaching mics to glasses with heatshrink tube, so I really can't take all the credit for it.

I have perfected my 'posture' and also the ability to choose a good recording spot (well at least in clubs, still having a hard time making a decent festival recording IMHO). I will try to post some more clips to the gallery (but I was having issues before)

[The Low Volta]

bump: added a full club show to the gallery section: Mogwai live @ Domino festival 2006 (@ the AB in Brussels)

- the full show is uploaded to the gallery, but in an edited version (long applause and some tuning of instruments etc was cut out with fade in/fade out) so it would fit one audio CD and because I accidentally pressed stop in stead of pause (that lousy NH900 all will be better with my RH1 ) I missed the beginning of the encore ('Mogwai Fear Satan') which was 'fixed' by crossfading it into the noisefest at the end of the last song of the main set ('We're No Here')... but this isn't exactly very good when encoded in MP3 as it isn't gapless ergo crossfading doesn't really work!

- the tracks uploaded are in Lame VBR MP3 at average bitrate of 200kbps so you can still enjoy it in relatively high quality.

- because of the 'strange behaviour' of the galleries (first uploaded track is arranged last) the concert is uploaded back to front but this should be easily fixed, as I've numbered the tracks

- two tracks I don't know the name of... if you are a Mogwai fan and know what they are, PM me and I'll fix it

*edit: just relistened to my entire Mogwai collection and I've added the tracktitles myself (both tracks came from the 'Happy songs for happy people' album I only recently acquired)

- I used the setup as described in the first post of this thread, but in stead of sunglasses, I used my own prescription glasses (I quit using contacts almost completely)

- I was standing right with my back to the mixer and tried very hard not to move at all during the concert

Mogwai is a tape-friendly band! please feel free to share this recording, but please respect the copyright/copyleft/CC ideas and do not try to make any profit in doing so and please do give credit to the recordist (i.e. me, The Low Volta aka The Lowest Volta aka TLV aka Mr.SMIT)

hope you enjoy it as much as I did/still do... please feel free to give feedback here or in the live-rec gallery

Edited July 21, 2006 by The Low Volta

[greenmachine]

bump: added a full club show to the gallery section: Mogwai live @ Domino festival 2006 (@ the AB in Brussels)

...

Thanks for sharing - I like it. How about uploading it to the archive or similar places to get more attention?

[The Low Volta]

I probably will...I had already thought about that...but I prefered 'testing the water' overhere a bit to see if my recording was up to standards of archive.org

when I have some time I'll probably upload a complete unedited FLAC or WAVEPACK version of the show to archive.org (I'll post an update and link here once I've done it)

thanks for reminding me greenmachine

PS: I just realized... is your nickname from the likenamed song on kyuss' "blues for the red sun"?

[greenmachine]

Indeed, i like their simplistic yet effective style.

[The Low Volta]

as promised, a link to the mogwai show on archive.org

--- link ---

unlike the CD-edit I posted in the gallery overhere, this version is completely unedited (except for a little amplification and small cut of the audience noise at the beginning and a fade-out at the end) and as I wanted to keep it unedited, I didn't upload the encore (Mogwai Fear Satan) as I missed the beginning (pressed 'stop' instead of 'pause' between main set and encore)

also it is available in lossless (FLAC), and lossy compressions (ogg, VBR-MP3, low-bitrate MP3) and as a stream (low and high bitrate MP3)

I really hope this way more ppl can enjoy my recording... please feel free to share but respect the idea of the live music archive and the copyrights of Mogwai

If you like what you hear, feel free to leave some feedback (here or on archive.org) and of course if you have some critique...feel free to post that as well (though I'd prefer praise of course )

[alchemy]

The Low Volta, Mogwai shows are always very very loud. Some people have claimed that they are the loudest shows they have been to. Yet, I see even for the Panasonic capsules, which max out at 120db with a bat box do not overload or distort on this entire recording! I don't know how that could be? Are the capsules modified in some way for higher SPLs?

Edited November 16, 2006 by alchemy

[greenmachine]

Yes, they're source follower modified and can handle well over 130 dB without significant distortion. I know because i have built them.

Details for the mod on Linkwitz's site and in my DIY thread.

[alchemy]

Yes, they're source follower modified and can handle well over 130 dB without significant distortion. I know because i have built them.

Details for the mod on Linkwitz's site and in my DIY thread.

Ah, so that's the secret!

I knew there had to be a reason why they weren't overloading. I guess you can ignore my other message then.

Edited November 17, 2006 by alchemy

[The Low Volta]

as greenmachine built and designed the mics... I couldn't explain it better.

but just as a comment: this mogwai show was kinda loud, but definitely the loudest show I ever attended. Mogwai at pukkelpop quite a couple of years ago was much louder and it seems they have learned subtlety can work just as well sometimes. Overall, the loudest show I ever saw (well, half at least) was Kyuss at pukkelpop somewhere in the early '90s... they scared away everyone that didn't wear earplugs just cause they played painstakingly loud

that said, the mics (+battery box -> line in) have managed to capture everything I tried them on without distortion... and there were some loud things like bloodbrothers, mogwai, etc.

[Simon_W]

Hi, I was wondering how to use some settings because they are rather vaguely explained in my manual of the MZ-NH700 and I suppose they influence each other.

First I have to set the "REC Set" - MIC Sens and choose between 'Sens High' and 'Sens Low'.

Then I have to set the "REC Set" - MIC AGC and choose between "Standard" and "LoudMusic".

Now I was wondering if it was necessary to use the line-in when you have these options? E.g. if you choose Sens Low and LoudMusic is it possible to make live recordings without problems using the MIC input ? I want to record classical music and church organs.

Has someone experimented with these settings and what are the results ? I can try all these settings and find out for myself however maybe you have some tips.

(I am using greenmachine's GM standard)

[greenmachine]

The GM-Standard is a highly sensitive mic, which doesn't require much preamplification. You will get best results when using the "sens low" and a manual level setting of 20 or below all the time. The "sens high" setting is for less sensitive mics and/or when recording extraordinarily quiet sounds (like birdcalls from a distance). A too high setting will just increase the noisefloor along with the signal and the headroom/dynamic range will be reduced, clipping may occur sooner than necessary.

The MIC AGC settings "Standard" and "LoudMusic" affect the attack/delay parameters of the built-in limiter when using AGC (automatic levels). AGC (particularly the "Standard" setting) will compress the dynamics and lead to (dynamic) compression artifacts. The "LoudMusic" setting may be better suited for music (less aggressive dynamic compression) if you really want to use AGC. For best results, particularly when recording music, always use manual level settings.*

Using the line-in without preamplification (via a battery module to power the mics) is only necessary when recording really loud amplified concerts which would overload the mic preamp even at its lowest setting. For unamplified music like classical and church organs, the mic-in (at "sens low" and a manual level setting of 20 or below in your case) should give best results.**

* The MIC AGC settings have no effect when using manual levels.

** The MIC Sens settings have no effect when recording via line-in.

Edited January 28, 2007 by greenmachine

[Simon_W]

Thanks very much Greenmachine for your answer !

[The Low Volta]

I think I can't/shouldn't add much to greenmachine's answer (he's often right you now that's why we buy his mics as well ) but just to let you know that recording a good organ is ne of the most difficult sources to capture in their full range IMHO. A good organ has not only a vey wide frequency reach (can produce extreme highs and lows) but also a very wide dynamic range (it can switch from intimately quiet to overwhelmingly loud in very little time)

I have been talking to a guy that was present at a professional recording session in the Notre Dame de Paris quite some time ago for a record and he was telling me about all the difficulties even a very proficient and well-trained crew had to position mics correctly and set recording levels so the full sound of the organ would be captured...

I haven't tried it miself, but if you do succeed at capturing something you are happy with please share (and even if you're not content, share it so we can try and give tips to improve the recording) but most of all: have fun recording!

[Simon_W]

I have emailed a bit with someone who made recordings with a rather old fashioned minidisc recorder all over Europe. He has send me a recording of and organ concert in the Dom in Trier and it is quite amazing. He uses very simple boundary microphones (PZM) and I am planning to use a similar set-up. I am now experimenting a bit how to place the capsules of Greenmachine in or on a boundary ... a flat small peace of wood. Then during recording you can place the boundary microphones on the floor of the church.

I have been talking to a guy that was present at a professional recording session in the Notre Dame de Paris quite some time ago for a record and he was telling me about all the difficulties even a very proficient and well-trained crew had to position mics correctly and set recording levels so the full sound of the organ would be captured...

[The Low Volta]

as I said, have fun experimenting a bit if the situation permits you... and be sure to post some bits so we can all learn (and enjoy the music of course)

[infoman]

I would like to thank The Low Volta and others for their comments about stealth recording. Last weekend I went to a concert in Germany were I was told in advance by my friend that they pat you down and check your bags. So after coming here especially to read the advice I'd come across before on stealth recording, I went into extra stealth mode. I put my minidisc recorder in-between two pairs of socks with some accessories in the other socks. I didn't bother using rubber bands as they were not there for very long. I wore some cord trousers with slightly baggy ends so the bulge couldn't be seen in my sock.

My SP-BM2 mic was attached to some glasses, complete with the original store plastic lenses as I don't need glasses to see, which I wore. The wire ran down my back under my shirt and with my jumper and coat on could not be detected. Even with only the jumper they could not be detected. The glasses covers were homemade and as such the material isn't quite the right type. It gives a slightly muffled sound to the recordings but it's better than nothing. I assumed I could get croakies in the UK but you can't. So at some point I might order some from Sound Professionals. The minidiscs I hid in a bag of cleaning wipes and I then dried them off later using toilet paper. The attenuator I use is a headphone volume control lead so I just left that in my bag. I also put in a camera into my bag and if they wanted that to go into the cloakroom then so be it. I didn't have room to stealth hide that.

As it turned out they didn't check my bag that well and I would have had no problems. However they did pat my coat and trouser pockets so I felt the effort was worth while. Once I got inside I placed the minidisc recorder in an old camera case I always use and attached it to my belt. With a long shirt that covered it. The case just happens to be the perfect size for my minidisc recorder, even offering a pocket in the front for a spare minidisc and battery. For any one interested it's made by Tamrac and in 1999, when I got it, it didn't cost much. Not sure whether they still made them.

I don't bother with headphones or remote control because it's another device which I have to store somewhere and another device for the security to find. I was slightly apprehensive before going in but once I hit security I was so busy doing whatever they asked, that I forgot all about that and acted perfectly normal. If you look and act normal, they won't suspect a thing. My biggest concern would be people around be being worried. They are far more likely to create a scene than I am and then I'll be noticed. My friend pointed out the notice on the door in case I didn't spot it about recording and photos. Did he have to say it so loudly. As it was no one heard but they might have done. Just leave me to get on with it. I have a fair idea of what to do, keep quite, pretend you are another concert goer abiding by the rules and 99% of the time all will be well. I've had 1 close shave before, 1 failure (where it also happened to be recorded of an official DVD) and that's about it. Been told to stop taking photos more times than I have recording. That's not to say it won't happen again. Every success is a bonus.

It's a shame the menu button on my NH900 likes to operate the group function but with perseverance you eventually get into the menus to set up manual record. One day I intend to get the last portable MD recorder they produced but I'm waiting until no one wants it and it become cheap. Will that happen? Who knows. Until I decide otherwise I'll preserver with this one, even though it can get annoying.

Regards

Infoman

[Arni]

It´s not smart to post stealth techniques here as I was a security myself long time ago and other securities might check in here too .

I know all places where you can hide stuff as I´m a taper myself since 1987.

All I can tell you is that your chosen place for hiding stuff is NOT very good and therefore not recommended .

P.S: I NEVER said anything as security when I found a MD-recorder or mics...weapons and bottles was what we were searching for.......

security-guards love threads like this one, just check the hits of this topic....

that doesn´t make it easier for us stealth-tapers and the chance of being caught rises considerably by threads with pictures etc.

Edited October 24, 2007 by Arni

[infoman]

It´s not smart to post stealth techniques here as I was a security myself long time ago and other securities might check in here too .

I know all places where you can hide stuff as I´m a taper myself since 1987.

All I can tell you is that your chosen place for hiding stuff is NOT very good and therefore not recommended .

P.S: I NEVER said anything as security when I found a MD-recorder or mics...weapons and bottles was what we were searching for.......

security-guards love threads like this one, just check the hits of this topic....

that doesn´t make it easier for us stealth-tapers and the chance of being caught rises considerably by threads with pictures etc.

I wouldn't have thought about posting expect for the fact The Low Volta had posted very similar the details back in 2005 so details were out there for the past 2+ years. I have never give my real name though or posted pictures of myself and I don't ever intend to, for obvious reasons. Nor would I revel where I was recording. Germany is a big place. Out of interest do security go searching the internet to find out what people are doing to get equipment into venues?

Every so often I hear about drunk people annoying people at concerts by a group I really like. 9 times out of 10 it ends up being the groups tour manager who has to force security to sort it out, as they are just not interested. So if security are not interested in dealing with those serious problems, would they be interested in spending their own free time searching the internet for equipment ideas?

They see lots of people taking photos and a flash is fairly obvious but other items less so. I once got stopped for videoing at an outdoor concert, but only because the person in front held a video camera above their head and security saw that. When they arrive to stop them filming they saw my camera. On reflection I should have moved away once he had his camera so visible. I put the camera away when asked and enjoyed the rest of the concert. I don't film concerts very often as you are more likely to be spotted. I only do it where I know I am 95% certain it they won't see me so easily. The same goes with photos, I take more photos if I know they don't mind. But above all I make sure none of this is to the detriment of me joining in with the concert be that singing, clapping, occasional headbanging etc.

With 5,000 people get into a venue they do not have time to check everyone fully. I have been to sporting events (not using any stealth at all) where security has not been that thorough. The person I was with, on more than one occasion, as made a point of getting them to do proper job of checking their bag when the first attempt wasn't that thorough.