BestBuy ignores Hi-MD

[MDman53]

Just received the Best Buy Holiday Catalog in the mail today. 65 pages of almost? everything in electronics. There are 5 pages on Digital Music players..they feature a variety of MP3 players by many manufacturers (no Sony) plus Ipods and accessories. NOT one mention about Hi-MD or any Minidisc recorders for that matter. This is very discouraging. I've noticed the past few years; "Big Box" retailers (Best Buy, Circuit City and Ultimate Electronics) really DON'T have a large variety of electronics. They tends to carry a limited selection of products only in the "mainstream" and "HOT" categories. You can find virtually every Apple Ipod made. But you can not find even ONE Apple computer at Best Buy.

Can Sony find a way to have the Big Electronics stores carry Hi-MD recorders? They carry Sony TV, DVD players, Camcorders, Digital Cameras, Computers, CD players and on and on. They even carry cassette Walkmans. Do cassette Walkmans even sell anymore? Is there some way we can get HI-MD sold by mainstream stores?

Anyone else want to weigh in on the invisible HI-MD retail market?

By the way; I ordered my Sony MZ-RH10 HI-MD recorder from Datavision (on line) last May. Paid $239.00 plus shipping..a Great price. The RH-10 is the BEST Minidisc yet. A fantastic recorder and it "blows away" all the Ipods and MP3 players on the market....IMHO! ! ! I've supported Minidisc since I bought my first Sony MZ-1 back in 1992.

Don

[rei-gouki]

I can't comment about the US situation but in Australia, MD technology costs a fair bit compared to the others... well... did *points at the sales currently running* The fact that it exceeds the quality the average music listener would accept adds to it's fringe/specialised status making it unlikely to appear in any "Best Buy" catalogue.

Not to delve too much into economics, but "best buys" tend to be centered on the popular products just because the more people buy it, the less the manufacturer needs to charge for it to make a tidy profit. The lower the price, the better value for money it is.

I think the only way to get HiMD/MD into those catalogues is to cause them to be viewed as a different category of portable player. There are flash and HDD, new to the market, and the old cassettes mentioned in your post. What happened to MO? Or should everyone pick on the oldest reason of all - DRM?

[Sparky191]

Sony is pulling MD/HiMD from many of its own stores and markets. I seriously doubt they'll put any effort into getting it into other retail chains. That train has already left the station. The best you can hope for it that they retreat to the domestic Japanese market and release new models there. and that Everywhere else they'll reposition it as musicans/recording tool.

[Sunny]

They even carry cassette Walkmans. Do cassette Walkmans even sell anymore?

Don't know if they sell, but I presume there must be a demand, or retailers wouldn't stock them.

*Perhaps people buy cassette Walkmans because they still have cassettes, since that format has been around longer than MD. And they can be pretty cheap compared to Hi-MD players or media.

*Also, maybe older people that are unfamiliar with new technology make up part of the market.

*And a lot of new stereo systems still seem to include tape decks too, so it would make sense that shops stocked portable tape players.

I wish this wasn't the situation and that MD and Hi-MD were more popular, but people just seem to want the "coolest" newest stuff, even if it's not the best.

[Sparky191]

Others want the cheapest, despite the low SQ. I have a load of cassettes, and am ripping some of them to MP3. Many have deteriorated so badly I've decided to replace them with CD, even 2nd hand CD's. But not many people would bother. Also many cars still have tape decks.

[AMPlitude]

it seems taht the minidisc format has not been mainstream for a while, so not being on best buy's catalog isnt that surprising

[mcca6392]

When I worked at Circus City, I used to show NetMD off (back in those days) to customers who were looking at other relevant players.

Problem was, I couldn't truly sell them on what we had - because even while we carried units, we didn't carry models with line/mic inputs - two of the most advantageous features of the MD format.

I've shopped Best Buy, and at times, it has looked liked they were to carry MD for a while. I remember seeing 1st gen Hi-MD units and even MD storage wallets in stock.

But anymore? If you're lucky, all you'll see at a Best Buy are merely some PSYC Net-MDs, some leftover basic 1st gen Hi-MD units, and even those are on clearance.

When it comes to looking for MD accessories, I don't even bother with the big stores anymore. The drive to CC and BB is approximately 15 minutes; for 5-10 minutes more seat time in the car, I can get to the Sony Style store by me, and actually find new Hi-MD componentry and accessories.

Speaking of which, I should see if they have any blue blanks in yet...

[MDman53]

When the 1st gen HI-MD recorders were first released in 2004. Best Buy and Target carried the entry level: Sony MZ-NH600D. The 600 typically sold for $199.99. Unfortunately this unit had USB input only and not line in/mike jacks. I tried to get my 12 yr. old daughter to buy a 600. She wasn't interested; because all her friends at School had Ipods. It turned out into a costly purchase. The Ipod Mini cost $250.00 vs $199.99 for the 600. Then I had to buy a new computer with Windows XP run to run the Itunes software. The 600 with Sonicstage would run on Windows 98SE.

Don

When I worked at Circus City, I used to show NetMD off (back in those days) to customers who were looking at other relevant players.

Problem was, I couldn't truly sell them on what we had - because even while we carried units, we didn't carry models with line/mic inputs - two of the most advantageous features of the MD format.

I've shopped Best Buy, and at times, it has looked liked they were to carry MD for a while. I remember seeing 1st gen Hi-MD units and even MD storage wallets in stock.

But anymore? If you're lucky, all you'll see at a Best Buy are merely some PSYC Net-MDs, some leftover basic 1st gen Hi-MD units, and even those are on clearance.

When it comes to looking for MD accessories, I don't even bother with the big stores anymore. The drive to CC and BB is approximately 15 minutes; for 5-10 minutes more seat time in the car, I can get to the Sony Style store by me, and actually find new Hi-MD componentry and accessories.

Speaking of which, I should see if they have any blue blanks in yet...

[Deanage]

When the 1st gen HI-MD recorders were first released in 2004. Best Buy and Target carried the entry level: Sony MZ-NH600D. The 600 typically sold for $199.99. Unfortunately this unit had USB input only and not line in/mike jacks. I tried to get my 12 yr. old daughter to buy a 600. She wasn't interested; because all her friends at School had Ipods. It turned out into a costly purchase. The Ipod Mini cost $250.00 vs $199.99 for the 600. Then I had to buy a new computer with Windows XP run to run the Itunes software. The 600 with Sonicstage would run on Windows 98SE.

Don

Not to mention paying for a new (proprietry) battery in 6 months at ludicrous prices (or paying for an extended battery replacement warranty which shouldn't exist), and having to get the unit fixed 'cos it died, AGAIN. Then getting your PC repaired because iTunes screwed it up.

[Breepee2]

I tried to get my 12 yr. old daughter to buy a 600. She wasn't interested; because all her friends at School had Ipods.

Already that spoiled? And you even gave in? Boo.

[Deanage]

Already that spoiled? And you even gave in? Boo.

That's it, she's going to Dr Phil.

[veezhun]

Then I had to buy a new computer with Windows XP run to run the Itunes software. The 600 with Sonicstage would run on Windows 98SE.

Don

There are tons of software to make the ipod work with win98se. There is anapod explorer ( paid), ml_ipod winamp plugin (free), sharepod, yamipod..

a simple google search would have saved you a lot of money

[lamewing]

Not to mention paying for a new (proprietry) battery in 6 months at ludicrous prices (or paying for an extended battery replacement warranty which shouldn't exist), and having to get the unit fixed 'cos it died, AGAIN. Then getting your PC repaired because iTunes screwed it up.

I really am not a great iPod fan, but this is getting silly.

1. 6 months for a battery. Sure, some batteries are bad. That can happen with any battery, but I did own four iPods, a 5GB 1st gen, a 20GB 2nd gen, a iPod mini 2nd gen, and a iPod nano. Each was exchanged for a newer model because I enjoy new tech (stupid idea though) and now use the Cowon X5L and A2. In NONE of these cases did my battery ever lose more than about 10% of its total maximum charge and that was with HEAVY use.

2. Ludicrous prices? Ever looked at the price of a battery replacement for a NH1 or EH1? Compare the sizes of those batteries? A battery replacement (which can be done by an average person) costs about $35.00 to $60.00. Sure you can pay $100.00 if you want someone else to do it, but how much does Sony charge to replace the battery in the E10 or N10, if they even replace the battery (I don't know)?

3. Actually, there isn't an extended battery replacement warranty, the warranty covers the entire devices. Plus, nowadays, most credit cards provide extended warranties anyway.

4. You can eaisly get a lemon device that needs replacement, again and again BECAUSE (not 'cos) of bad workmanship, but that can happen on any device. The minidisc market is not defect free. The DR7 I bought from audiocubes.com wouldn't record out of the box, the replacement had problems too!!!

5. iTunes screwing up your PC. Hmmm, I have also seen what Sonic Stage can do to a PC registry!!! Not to mention the latest Sony fiasco and what their draconian DRM has done to folks computers lately.

My point is that this incessant iPod bashing is rather stupid. It seems many folks do it just to make themselves feel better about their purchase. I am rather happy with my Cowon equipment, but I don't go around bashing Apple because I don't like their new products..I just go on with my life. How about all of us just do this and stop propogating "stories" that are not 100% based in fact.

[Deanage]

I really am not a great iPod fan, but this is getting silly.

1. 6 months for a battery. Sure, some batteries are bad. That can happen with any battery, but I did own four iPods, a 5GB 1st gen, a 20GB 2nd gen, a iPod mini 2nd gen, and a iPod nano. Each was exchanged for a newer model because I enjoy new tech (stupid idea though) and now use the Cowon X5L and A2. In NONE of these cases did my battery ever lose more than about 10% of its total maximum charge and that was with HEAVY use.

2. Ludicrous prices? Ever looked at the price of a battery replacement for a NH1 or EH1? Compare the sizes of those batteries? A battery replacement (which can be done by an average person) costs about $35.00 to $60.00. Sure you can pay $100.00 if you want someone else to do it, but how much does Sony charge to replace the battery in the E10 or N10, if they even replace the battery (I don't know)?

3. Actually, there isn't an extended battery replacement warranty, the warranty covers the entire devices. Plus, nowadays, most credit cards provide extended warranties anyway.

4. You can eaisly get a lemon device that needs replacement, again and again BECAUSE (not 'cos) of bad workmanship, but that can happen on any device. The minidisc market is not defect free. The DR7 I bought from audiocubes.com wouldn't record out of the box, the replacement had problems too!!!

5. iTunes screwing up your PC. Hmmm, I have also seen what Sonic Stage can do to a PC registry!!! Not to mention the latest Sony fiasco and what their draconian DRM has done to folks computers lately.

My point is that this incessant iPod bashing is rather stupid. It seems many folks do it just to make themselves feel better about their purchase. I am rather happy with my Cowon equipment, but I don't go around bashing Apple because I don't like their new products..I just go on with my life. How about all of us just do this and stop propogating "stories" that are not 100% based in fact.

Yeah, the post wasn't meant to be taken as gospel. It's just meant as a dig at iPods and it's less than stellar reputation for reliabilty. I'll be the first one to admit that SS is shite. I f*ckn hate SS (MediaSource forever! if only it worked with Hi-MD). I just haven't had a good experience with iPods.

[Sparky191]

All products have their good and bad points, but anti ipod rants are annoying especially when they are based on poor product knowledge and half truths or a "spin" on the truth. The iPod fills a need that other products didn't. Thats why it has 85% of the MP3 market. MD/HIMD/SS just didn't cut it in the portable market. Especially since Sony hardly promoted the format.

Its a MD forum, not a anti ipod forum.

[podmed2]

I have noticed this since MD's debut many years ago. I remember when Sears carried a "MD Package" for $500 which included a MD Deck and a 1st Gen Walkman. I think I bought the only one [in Tampa]. These big companies make their money on the commercial success electronics. Just llok at their CD's and DVD's. Mostly all Top 40.

I think the Internet will be the medium for MD purchases for most people. Hopefully at least until I am in a Nursing Home on alot of IV meds and listening to Pearl Jam's "10" on my MD!

I have an iPod, actually 2 of them. I have the Bose iPod speakers, the JBL iPod speakers. They work great as standalone Jukeboxes. But for sound quality and archiving, MD is KING. The sound quality is awesome for audiophile listening.

[e1ghtyf1ve]

Well, I believe that Hi-MD is the antithesis of the iPod. "Fast Food" has the bulk (no pun intended, burger and fries afficionados) of the market; but that in no way translates to superiority. The same applies to "Top 40" vs Mozart, and iPod vs Hi-MD. Just because the masses go for something should have been a warning to me

Like I posted before, I'm an Apple Computer fan. But for the prices demanded and functionality provided, I see maximum rip-off vs. versatility being compared. In other words, there is no comparison. I got burned, but that doesn't mean I can't learn.

This is the Hi-MD forum - we can bash iPod all we want!

Cheers

[Sparky191]

Its just dumb. For example you can use lossless though a line out on an iPod and the Sound quality is excellent. Yet someone here is going to say HiLP sounds better than an iPod which is nonsensical. Just because you don't like what "the mass'es" like, doesn't automatically mean its a bad product. Thats just a sweeping generalisation that has no real meaning. Like the prices. Where I live the iPods are the same price or cheaper then HiMD.

Its a completely different product with a different use case. End of.

[e1ghtyf1ve]

Its just dumb.

It's amazing how far I can go with my 85 IQ. I'm still learning...

For example you can use lossless though a line out on an iPod and the Sound quality is excellent.

Wow. I never knew that iPods had line out. Oh, you mean headphone out! I'm afraid many here will disagree with you on the relative quality of the iPod headphone amps. See podmed2's post for a recent example. Welcome to the forums, podmed2!

Yet someone here is going to say HiLP sounds better than an iPod which is nonsensical.

Agreed. Now who said that?! *bangs shoe on table*

Just because you don't like what "the mass'es" like, doesn't automatically mean its a bad product.

I love my cheeseburgers and fries! Excuse me for a moment while I schedule my triple-bypass surgery...

Thats just a sweeping generalisation that has no real meaning.

What the...? Oh:

Like the prices. Where I live the iPods are the same price or cheaper then HiMD.

Indeed. But shouldn't the "sweeping" lack of functionality mean I get a substantial discount compared to Hi-MD? Or maybe it's just the stupidity tax I keep having to pay.

Its a completely different product with a different use case.

Bingo!

End of.

I sure hope so...

Cheers

Edited November 20, 2005 by e1ghtyf1ve

[LupinIV]

No matter how much you guys kkep on screeming about Best Buy, or my ipod is better than yours, the problem is still the same:

SONY ABANDOND MD not Best Buy.

While Apple is supporting actively Ipod so they can also sell PCs and other merchandize, SONY is basically silent on MD.

How many commercials do you see about MDs?

Why would Best Buy sell MD when Sony is not pushing it?

Would you sell something that only one in a million use?

Lets stopo yelling at each other and comparing genital sizes. Lets tell SONY to bloody push it or loose it.

You guys sound like kids.

And by the way, I have been using MD since it's first appearance, so do not give me the nooby reply.

Just grow up and see things from a marketing, money making point of view. Business is dominated by what the people ask for. Demand and offer..... hello nobody listened to economy 101?

HD based players are very effective. Most people do not care for recordings and all the other things that MD is marketed for. They just want to listen to something while they run, eat, work, or have s*x.

So what? If MD were the answer to portable music, do you think that Sony would have REALLY let it go so easy? See how fast they started introducing and promoting the nw-hd and all the other mp3/atrac players.

For once, lets be honest with ourself. MD is good, but it is becoming more a collectible without a real mass purpose.

Look at the Japanese market. Once Apple flooded the market, people started loving Ipods and the like.

Sorry, I could not hold it anymore!!!!

Long story short:

SONY KILLED MD!!! not Best Buys, not Radio Shack, not Target, and neither cheap old WalMart.

cheers

Edited November 20, 2005 by LupinIV

[e1ghtyf1ve]

Aren't you glad you got that off your chest? So am I. *group hug*

Other than mangling the entire concept of "Supply and Demand" you seem to be on the right track. I agree that Best Buy ignoring Hi-MD is purely a business decision. However, I believe there is more to this story.

The marketing of a high quality, consumer portable media recorder is intolerable to the select few, special people in charge of the media monopolies. You are probably too young to remember the legal problems VCRs had when they were introduced in the US. The abysmal quality of the recordings that these early machines made are ironically what saved them from an early demise. You might not remember the horrible legal problems surrounding DAT 20 years ago. DAT was effectively killed in its infancy as a consumer format precisely due to superior quality. The same pattern seems to be emerging with Hi-MD, another superior quality format in its beginning stages and still in the cradle. They tried to cripple it with some success, but I don't think that will save it in the long run from a purely economical standpoint.

When Sony started buying into Hollywood, I presume that they were hoping for more control over enabling consumer technology (such as cheap portable digital recorders) and avoiding past legal entanglements. Unfortunately, we all know what happened next. In one of the greatest corporate ironies, it was Sony itself who got absorbed into the great global US media empire. "Sir Howard" may be, I'm afraid, the final nail in Hi-MDs coffin. Enjoy it (or not) while it lasts.

The iPod, and its ilk, is the perfect vehicle for extracting huge returns (money) from people all over the world for very little investment on the part of the media conglomerates, and that is why it is so agressively marketed at Best Buy, Radio Shack (now there's a whopper!), etc. That is why it rules the market. Oh, the amazing genius of it all!

Even if you are a musician, it's not your music. It's theirs. Believe it, baby!

Besides, most people will eat any crap, as long as it has lots of sugar, salt, and fats. But I wouldn't call it good.

Cheers

PS Yes, mine is bigger than yours. Trust me.

[LupinIV]

...Aren't you glad you got that off your chest? So am I. *group hug*

...Other than mangling the entire concept of "Supply and Demand" you seem to be on the right track...

...You are probably too young to ...

...You might not remember ...

...Besides, most people will eat any crap...

...PS Yes, mine is bigger than yours. Trust me.

You seem very sure in your assumptions....

Good for you.

[e1ghtyf1ve]

You seem very sure in your assumptions....

Good for you.

My tongue was very firmly in my cheek, sorry about that. I find having a sense of humor, along with a good diet and regular exercise, very beneficial to ones health.

Cheers

Note: You may notice that I choose my words very deliberately. I like adding qualifiers, and with few exceptions make it very clear that many of my statements are only my opinion. My posts are meant primarily for entertainment purposes unless it is obviously not the case. However, I spare no effort in trying to be accurate. Do some research and judge for yourself.

[atrain]

easy up on the handbags please

[Sparky191]

...My posts are meant primarily for entertainment purposes unless it is obviously not the case. However, I spare no effort in trying to be accurate.

...

I don't think theres a future in your stand up career to be honest. Came across more of a muddled rant to me. Maybe I need a humour transplant stat. Posting primarily to make jokes, is funny, but kinda off topic. However for the others who may be vaguely interested.

....Wow. I never knew that iPods had line out. Oh, you mean headphone out! ...

No I meant the line out. If you want the best SQ, and a large portable music library, that means lossless, a large HD, fast transfers, decent music management and a line out. The iPod/iTunes has all that. Even if most people don't know it does. Apple completely fails to market that feature. Maybe a Sony guy was in charge of advertising that feature?

....

The marketing of a high quality, consumer portable media recorder is intolerable to the select few, special people in charge of the media monopolies. You are probably too young to remember the legal problems VCRs had when they were introduced in the US. The abysmal quality of the recordings that these early machines made are ironically what saved them from an early demise. You might not remember the horrible legal problems surrounding DAT 20 years ago. DAT was effectively killed in its infancy as a consumer format precisely due to superior quality. The same pattern seems to be emerging with Hi-MD, another superior quality format in its beginning stages and still in the cradle. They tried to cripple it with some success, but I don't think that will save it in the long run from a purely economical standpoint....

I though it was simply that VHS was cheaper then BetaMax, and that DAT was simply too expensive. However I dunno much about it, I'm not THAT old. Though I do think theres a parallel in HiMD. If someone is primarily is interested in a player compares a 20GB HD unit vs a 1GB HiMD for the same price, and every where they see that the latest technology is the HD/Flash players, theres a comfort zone in buying what they percieve to be the dominant technology. No one want to be left with an expensive betamax again do they.

Edited November 20, 2005 by Sparky191

[e1ghtyf1ve]

Couldn't make heads or tails of that last post, sorry. But then I'm not too bright. Maybe someone could enlighten me?

I did get the point about "comfort zones" - I think - but the power of marketing is still being ignored. People are being deftly steered into these "comfort zones" by clever marketing, where content providers can take more of your money while providing less service. Easy to do, since we're talking about a cartel.

By the way, I was addressing why "Best Buy ignores Hi-MD." But don't take my word for it, take a look at:

Panel: consumer media electronics held back by content cartel

or

Media Conglomerates, Mergers, Concentration of Ownership

or even

The new masters of the universe

These links represent just a small fraction of what information is available. The buying public often has no clue that they are so easily being manipulated. That is why Best Buy and others are "ignoring" Hi-MD. It's just good business sense when billions are to be had. Consumer empowerment, such as providing and marketing cheap PCM digital recorders, just doesn't fit the business model when you look at the big picture. It's all about control, not quality.

Cheers

[LupinIV]

Couldn't make heads or tails of that last post, sorry. But then I'm not too bright. Maybe someone could enlighten me?

Maybe ATRAIN could?

[culp4684]

Actually, Best Buy used to be one of the biggest supporters of MD. When I got into the format back in '98, they sold three combo units (decks and players) and even had a large selection of pre-recorded MD's.

Lupin's correct, Sony is the one who abandoned MD. Best Buy (and other retailers) can't make money with electronic equipment that just gathers dust sitting in the store...

[Sparky191]

....Consumer empowerment, such as providing and marketing cheap PCM digital recorders, just doesn't fit the business model when you look at the big picture. It's all about control, not quality.

Quality? Lots of people left MD when they experienced the quality of Net MD and the versions of SS that accompanied it. Add to that the nightmare of Sony's DRM. You also have the issue of native MP3 support. Sony just weren't giving people what they wanted. This is prior to the iPod. Apple come along and have a proprietary format, ACC, and DRM control. However it all just works. Unlike MD and SS at the same time. The market voted with its wallet. Its only with the 2nd gen HiMD and SS 3x that Sony have relented their crazy business model.

Most people were comming from cassette walkmans, and CD players, and most portable devices do not have very good SQ, even the CD walkman. So low bit rate MP3's or better again ACC sounds as good to most people. The majority of people are not into Hi-Fi. Once its good enough thats all they need. Also the majoity of people don't record. So they are simply not into those features. Most people don't even change the rubbish earphones they get with their portable players.

While Apple are great at selling and marketing smoke and mirrors. Its obvious the iPod fills a niche for people. It what they wanted. Easy to use, fast transfer, large capacity and product support. Its a niche MD/HiMD with its current feature set, can't fill. Sony seem unwilling to make any effort with the format.

With recordists, and people interested in SQ. MD still has a place. Is that market big enough for Sony to keep making the format? Who knows. I've noticed on some of the HiFi forums, where you get a lot of MD users. A lot of them have become ex MD users, switching to lossless, FLAC, ACC on HD players like iRiver, Cowon and iPods.

[LupinIV]

Quality? Lots of people ....

I got to agree with Sparky191.

+1

Cheers

[Sparky191]

That said, its nice to see people being enthuastic about the format. Even if it seems I'm having a handbag fight with them. I'm not, just like a good debate. Just wish there was less of the Rose tinted classes. I posted somewhere else that theres two main reasons to use MD/HiMD.

1) SQ

2) Rec SQ

Does the mass market want this? Sadly I don't think so. No ones pitching this to people anyway. Would make a great marketing/sales campaign.

Edited November 21, 2005 by Sparky191

[e1ghtyf1ve]

That said nice to see people begin enthuastic about the format. Even if it seems I'm having a handbag fight with them. I'm not, just like a good debate. Just wish there was less of the Rose tinted classes. I posted somewhere else that theres two main reasons to use MD/HiMD.

1) SQ

2) Rec SQ

Does the mass market want this? Sadly I don't think so. No ones pitching this to people anyway. Would make a great marketing/sales campaign.

Amen, and thanks for the good debate!

Cheers

[MDman53]

HI-MD fans:

I'm the one that started this topic. It's sure caused alot of discussion. Maybe I should explain my question:Why does Best Buy ignor Hi-MD? When I go to a Superstore as in: Best Buy. I expect a SUPER selection of EVERYTHING. Not just huge quantities stacked floor to ceiling telling the public. "This is what's Hot and what you need"! or "This is what we bought in huge quantities and we have to move...NOW"! Maybe it is just easier for Best Buy to sell ALL the Ipods and MP3 players they can. They don't want to be bothered explaining the tecnological and sound quality advantages of HI-MD to the naive consumer.

This is an Minidisc Forum so I assume everyone here is a BIG Fan of the format! There are probably Pro Ipod forums out there. I'm sure their tolerance level of Minidisc is just as predictable.

Don

[e1ghtyf1ve]

HI-MD fans:

I'm the one that started this topic. It's sure caused alot of discussion. Maybe I should explain my question:Why does Best Buy ignor Hi-MD? When I go to a Superstore as in: Best Buy. I expect a SUPER selection of EVERYTHING. Not just huge quantities stacked floor to ceiling telling the public. "This is what's Hot and what you need"! or "This is what we bought in huge quantities and we have to move...NOW"! Maybe it is just easier for Best Buy to sell ALL the Ipods and MP3 players they can. They don't want to be bothered explaining the tecnological and sound quality advantages of HI-MD to the naive consumer.

This is an Minidisc Forum so I assume everyone here is a BIG Fan of the format! There are probably Pro Ipod forums out there. I'm sure their tolerance level of Minidisc is just as predictable.

Don

You're absolutely right, I agree. Unfortunately, big business tells you what you need, and we end up with fewer and fewer choices. Did you know that it's getting harder and harder to find a flash mp3 player that doubles as a portable drive for regular file storage? The trend is to move everybody to DRM schemes like Plays For Sure that makes Sonic Stage look like heaven! Well, maybe not that bad, but it's getting there.

And one thing is definitely sure: When Hi-MD goes away, so does affordable (<$500), quality pocket recording. Hollywood and RIAA will win, because they know what's good for you. The Nomad JB3 HD recorder is already history. The less functionality you have, the more you need to buy their stuff. If you think Apple will ever make it easy to record on the iPod, dream on!

Cheers

[Sparky191]

I'd assume Best Buy doesn't carry it because it doesn't sell well. End of story. Lots of Sony stores have stopped carrying it aswell, likely for the same reason.

DRM has nothing to do with UMS. Do you mean folder file based navigation vs ID tagged? Thats a design difference nothing to do with DRM. Most DRM (that I'm aware of) only effects music bought online. Mainly to allow them to sell it to you in the first place. Sonys SS DRM can be applied to all your music, including your own recordings, and your own rips from CD's. Only in the latest versions of SS has Sony allowed you to turn this off. Thats a funny kinda heaven. A lot of players from iRiver, Cowon and creative have only recently added support for DRM files to allow you buy music from online sources. Sony MD has had it from day one.

Which flash mp3 players don't allow you to use them as a data drive?

Edited November 21, 2005 by Sparky191

[rei-gouki]

Well, they hampered the technolgy with DRM to prevent it being a top quality pirate medium. Not sure why they kept it up even after CD burners were mainstream, but they most definitely are letting go far too late given the HDD/flash boom due to their convenience and lack of DRM.

A good question perhaps, is whether Sony ditching DRM for SS and NetMD would have made any difference to the flash (and HDD) flood (pardon the pun). The presence of cassette recorders still on the shelf in the catalogue that got this thread going would suggest a "yes"... but what do people think?

[Sparky191]

I think its part of the reason. Usability was the main reason. The iPod has DRM restrictions.

[e1ghtyf1ve]

I'd assume Best Buy doesn't carry it because it doesn't sell well. End of story. Lots of Sony stores have stopped carrying it aswell, likely for the same reason.

Well, for the reasons and sources linked to by my and other member's previous posts, including real experts, I believe that is a massive oversimplification. There is no substitute for research and careful reading. If you have evidence to the contrary, feel free to share.

DRM has nothing to do with UMS. Do you mean folder file based navigation vs ID tagged? Thats a design difference nothing to do with DRM. Most DRM (that I'm aware of) only effects music bought online. Mainly to allow them to sell it to you in the first place. Sonys SS DRM can be applied to all your music, including your own recordings, and your own rips from CD's. Only in the latest versions of SS has Sony allowed you to turn this off. Thats a funny kinda heaven. A lot of players from iRiver, Cowon and creative have only recently added support for DRM files to allow you buy music from online sources. Sony MD has had it from day one.

Which flash mp3 players don't allow you to use them as a data drive?

Well, I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader - I won't get drawn into a debate over something so obvious. Big hint: Read about it on the forums over at

Mistic River

You will read that DRM has everything to do with UMS - it precludes it, much to the chagrin of new owners. I notice that Samsung and Creative are going down the same path. But I leave finding the evidence to you - it should be easy. I won't do it for you this time...

Cheers

PS rei-gouki got it - and has posed a great question!

[ObrenMasic]

Well I think the name says it all. Bets buy is what an MD is not.

I bought into the MD back in 1997 on the encouragement of a former friend, (havent forgiven him for suckering me into MD).

While its true that the MD had a fantastic potential in the mid 1990's, Sony ruined its chanses.

As LupinIV said: "SONY killed the MD".

While I do have a HiMD (need it for my old MDs) I prefer my HD based DAP these days and iRiver H140.

Check these specs:

- 40 GIG HD

- built in RADIO

- LineIn

- Optical IN

- Line Out

- OpticalOut

- BuiltinMic

- ExternalMic

- Recording in WAV or MP3 from LineIn/OpticalIn/ExtMic/IntMic

- Supports also VorbisOGG

- USB2.0

- Drag'nDrop transfer of musicfiles over the USB... in either direction! No DRM nonsense.

With the Rockbox project I have now also in addition to the official capabilities

- gapless mp3-playback

- recording from Radio

- playback of:

FLAC

ALAC

AC3

AAC

plus some more non music related stuff.

Shame that a giant like Sony cant pull off something that a small company like iRiver and a bunch of amateurs like the people at Rockbox.org can.

Maybe its time for Sony to do the world a favour and go into bankruptsy.

LATER EDIT: Above statement is a bit to harsh I've cooled down a bit since I wrote it. But I'm still exasperated with Sony.

Edited November 23, 2005 by ObrenMasic

[e1ghtyf1ve]

I think its part of the reason. Usability was the main reason. The iPod has DRM restrictions.

Nonsense - there is no substitute for research. MD declined long before there was an iPod to compare it to.

Well I think the name says it all. Bets buy is what an MD is not.

I bought into the MD back in 1997 on the encouragement of a former friend, (havent forgiven him for suckering me into MD).

While its true that the MD had a fantastic potential in the mid 1990's, Sony ruined its chanses.

As LupinIV said: "SONY killed the MD".

While I do have a HiMD (need it for my old MDs) I prefer my HD based DAP these days and iRiver H140.

Check these specs:

- 40 GIG HD

- built in RADIO

- LineIn

- Optical IN

- Line Out

- OpticalOut

- BuiltinMic

- ExternalMic

- Recording in WAV or MP3 from LineIn/OpticalIn/ExtMic/IntMic

- Supports also VorbisOGG

- USB2.0

- Drag'nDrop transfer of musicfiles over the USB... in either direction! No DRM nonsense.

With the Rockbox project I have now also in addition to the official capabilities

- gapless mp3-playback

- recording from Radio

- playback of:

FLAC

ALAC

AC3

AAC

plus some more non music related stuff.

Shame that a giant like Sony cant pull off something that a small company like iRiver and a bunch of amateurs like the people at Rockbox.org can.

Maybe its time for Sony to do the world a favour and go into bankruptsy.

Whee. I have two questions:

1. If you hate MD, why are you trolling these forums?

2. Congratulations on your iRiver. I wonder why it is no longer being sold? Hmm...

Edited November 21, 2005 by e1ghtyf1ve