Brokeback Mountain

[Alexx]

Just back from seeing this- it was so moving and emotive.

I sometimes think humanity should be ashamed of itself; the movie is about the taboo surrounding two men just because they love each other...

It also led me to think if any of the regulars here commited in the "sin" of homosexuality?

I am quite liberal myself. I think people should be allowed to love who they like; it's not like they are hurting me.

Has anyone else seen this movie and what did they think?

[atrain]

It also led me to think if any of the regulars here commited in the "sin" of homosexuality?

ot quite sure what you mean here? i've got no problem with homosexuality, my favourite uncle has been with his partner for 25 years & i have quite a few gay friends. australia is far more 'liberal' [in the literal sense as our conservative party is named the Liberals] than many other parts of the world.

[akijikan]

I'm a christian, and I have gay friends I don't judge...how's that for mind bending?

[bobt]

As Depeche Mode said "People are People", some of the kindest most giving people I know are gay, I judge people on their merits not their sexuality, color, religion, or what breed of dog they like.

Peace to all.

Bob

[The Low Volta]

...or what breed of dog they like.

though there are simply some dogs that are really... nah just kidding, couldn't agree more!

[smkranz]

I sometimes think humanity should be ashamed of itself; the movie is about the taboo surrounding two men just because they love each other...

I think people should be allowed to love who they like; it's not like they are hurting me.

A topic that was no doubt started at the risk (or intention?) of eliciting contrarian replies, so I suppose I'll bite. I have nuthin else to do today...and I didn't start this, so I accept no blame...

Nah, I'll pass on this flick. I am not ashamed that my response to watching two men "in love" is personally revolting. That's not from a Christian/religious POV, that's just my own personal gut reaction.

[Now, I will have to admit that watching two disrobed women "in love" certainly can have some entertainment value . Call it a double-standard if you will, that's alright with me.]

Yes, I too know some gay people. Big whoop...

Sure, people should be allowed to love who they like. No, they're not hurting me, and if they just keep their thing to themselves, I don't care. But my hackles get raised when demands are made that society change its standards of morality and its definition of "marriage", and that I change my belief structure and allow our schools to indoctrinate my kids in the catechism of political correctness, just so that a tiny minority of folks can booger each other and have everyone else consider it "normal".

Sorry, I just can't do it.

Edited January 8, 2006 by smkranz

[mercury_in_flames]

haha man, glad someone else was ok with saying they didnt want to see this, was going to, but knew i would probably get others jumping on the politically correct'ness bandwagon and get flamed. I feel the same, if you want to be gay, thats fine, just dont shove it down others throats just to be poltically correct. If you enjoy watching dudes make out, good for you.

Edited January 8, 2006 by GregTheRotter

[Alexx]

I put "sin" in commas because it is a view that I personaly don't share

[The Low Volta]

*edit: simplified my post so there can be no misunderstanding about my 'message'

• I think everyone should (be able to) decide for themselves
• This does not mean I like the movie as I haven't seen it yet and I probably won't

thanks

Edited January 8, 2006 by The Low Volta

[mercury_in_flames]

Man you are like sooo homophobic, you HAVE to be gay! LOL You;ve got to just laugh at how eager people are these days to call eachother; racists, homophobics, mesogenists, etc. lol

[Syrius]

My only problem with gay people is when lesbians treat me like scum just because I have a... Y chromosome.

Allow me to explain. Not all of them are mean to me. It's happened once or twice, but boy they sure acted as if I had killed their little brother and their dog and tore up their toys when they were kids. They come to the window I work at and they ALWAYS have to come complaining about how the company discriminates against them because they're not hetero. (which we didn't know until that point). Didn't get 10% discount on their bill? OMFG WE'RE BEING TEH HOMOPHOBIC!!!11!!!ONE!! Credit card got declined? OMFG! WE DON'T LIKE GAY PEOPLE!!11!! Account closed due to non-payment? OMFG!! I'M A JERK WHO THINKS I'M BETTER BECAUSE I'M STRAIGHT!!11!!. (Which they don't know. I could be bi or gay too, but they are judging me based on looks. Go figure.)

Seriously, I really wish that those who are always clamoring for acceptance due to being different stopped giving me a hard time because I happen to have a pe*is and my sexual preference is different from theirs.

Sorry for the rant.

That being said, I have several gay co-workers who don't go mixing their sexuality with every other little aspect of their lives, and treat me the exact way they expect to be treated: Like a human being who deserves respect and has something good to give. Of course they get that respect in return from me.

About the movie. I find it really stupid how Hollywood cannot portray straight men as sensitive, caring and loving. Sure, I love being seen as masculine, firm and all that which is expected of a guy nowadays. But sheesh, it's not like we're all stone-hearted emotionless statues. Yes, I'm the kind of guy who still buys flowers for a girl and likes to kiss their wrist if they let me. So I agree with Volta's comment on it.

Thanks and sorry if I said too much.

Edited January 8, 2006 by Syrius

[A440]

I hate to see this sort of spew on this generally civilized board. But some things should not go unanswered.

You're all upset about the "catechism of political correctness"?

Has your reality check bounced?

We've got GW Bush in the White House, fundamentalist Christians tweaking health and education programs, openly homophobic platinum-selling rappers (who spend an inordinate amount of time with their "boys" if you ask me) and yet another generation of high-school kids who regularly use "faggot" as the paramount insult. There are horrible high-profile cases like the Matthew Shepard murder and uncounted incidents of more petty harrassment that the politically correct brigade is trying, rightfully, to end. But just open your eyes and ears: There's more than enough dumbo machismo around to prevent your precious children from being indoctrinated by the pervasive PC conspiracy.

Society's "standards of morality" are always changing. Once slavery was considered moral. Once women couldn't vote. Once full rear nudity on broadcast TV was considered immoral. Change happens. Get used to it.

Homosexuality is absolutely normal for people who are wired that way. I'm not one of them. But their "gut reaction" is every bit as valid as your gut reaction, and every bit as insignificant. People who have a gut reaction against blacks or Jews or Asians or fat people or redheads or Minidisc users have an equal right to their gut reaction and an equal responsibility to keep it to themselves in any way that might impinge on someone else's rights. Sure, there are political-correctness extremists who are as stupid as full-tilt homophobes. You can find idiots everywhere. That doesn't justify a return to intolerance.

I'm not particularly interested in "Brokeback Mountain" myself. No one's saying you have to go see a movie or get something shoved down your throat (interesting image, Greg) if you don't want to. But don't go pretending some kind of natural or moral superiority to those who do. It's just your reflexes. Other people's are different.

It completely baffles me that the overwhelmingly straight majority is so fearful of a few gay lovers. Go ahead and flame--you'll only make yourself look more pathetic.

[Bananatree]

I wanted to see this movie because I heard it was a good movie. I invited my girlfriend because she likes it when boys kiss each other

It's totally fine that people hate watching men be intimate with each other. I know I was watching "Dead like me" last night and was a tiny-bit put off when the main character kisses his boyfriend. It's not a big deal, it was just a bit shocking, as they both were unattractive to me, so it seemed really foreign.

However, I guess that goes for two really ugly girls, or an ugly girl and an ugly guy. I've seen a few attractive guys kiss other attractive guys, it puts me off a lot less. Maybe Greg and smkranz need to see more attractive guys make out (kidding of course)

[Christopher]

We welcome all discussion here at MDCF, but if anyone feels uncomfortable or does not feel keen on the pace and tone of the discussion please feel free to notify myself or one of the moderators and we'll close the topic accordingly. From observation of other forums, it's very difficult to have a civilized conversation about topics like homosexuality.

Edited January 8, 2006 by kurisu

[smkranz]

...

It completely baffles me that the overwhelmingly straight majority is so fearful of a few gay lovers. Go ahead and flame--you'll only make yourself look more pathetic.

.....snnnxxxx.....it's all getting a little too boring and high-minded for me on this thread. I agree with Kurisu that no good can come from this topic, so I'm going to go back to dwell in my cave, to do some hunting and gathering for my woman and precious kiddies. But before I do ...

1. 1. I generally keep my nose out of political debates such as these in public forums, but when invited to weigh in, I hardly call it a flame. As some famous lawyer (so famous I forget who the heck he is) once cautioned, never ask the question you don't already know the answer to.

2. Even more baffling and humorous ('cept that it's true) is the intolerance and name-calling that comes from the political left, the self-appointed guardians of civil liberties except for those who disagree...

[mercury_in_flames]

.....snnnxxxx.....it's all getting a little too boring and high-minded for me on this thread. I agree with Kurisu that no good can come from this topic, so I'm going to go back to dwell in my cave, to do some hunting and gathering for my woman and precious kiddies. But before I do ...

1. I generally keep my nose out of political debates such as these in public forums, but when invited to weigh in, I hardly call it a flame. As some famous lawyer (so famous I forget who the heck he is) once cautioned, never ask the question you don't already know the answer to.

2. Even more baffling and humorous ('cept that it's true) is the intolerance and name-calling that comes from the political left, the self-appointed guardians of civil liberties except for those who disagree...

Aggreed.

If you want to save the world Low, go ahead, I am one of those people who changes the channel when someone has died on tv, when people do a protest (of any kind), and whenever george bush comes on lol . The world isnt all fun and games, yes we know. If you want to be the politically correct savior, go ahead.

Edited January 8, 2006 by GregTheRotter

[atrain]

We welcome all discussion here at MDCF, but if anyone feels uncomfortable or does not feel keen on the pace and tone of the discussion please feel free to notify myself or one of the moderators and we'll close the topic accordingly. From observation of other forums, it's very difficult to have a civilized conversation about topics like homosexuality.

to be honest i'd rather the topic stays open & those who wont or can't participate in an open friendly manner steer clear.

[bobt]

to be honest i'd rather the topic stays open & those who wont or can't participate in an open friendly manner steer clear.

I agree, we should be mature enough to know when we should stay out, or to respond tactfully when we do respond.

Bob

[pata2001]

I was going to watch Brokeback Mountain, but then when I saw the preview, I have the feeling that it's not going to be what I expected. It seems to be just another "gay is taboo, so the main characters decided not to be together" kinda movie. Not really exciting IMO. I dunno, I don't think the movie is that big of a deal. Seems to be more fun to watch yaoi anime. What surprised me is that Ang Lee is the director. Maybe I'll just wait for the DVD.

I don't get it with some of the public response (especially late night talk shows). "oooohhh, gay cowboy movie..." Woop deee dooo. I guess it IS a big deal for a country that censored Cardcaptor Sakura, Pokemon, and Sailormoon (yeah, why don't we get to see Sailor Stars? ).

For those that think this/gay stuff is already controversial, go watch Koi Kaze. Yeah, gotta love Japanese anime.

Edited January 9, 2006 by pata2001

[Eschelon]

I have been referring to this film as "Bareback Mountain" since the first time I saw the trailer. I've heard a lot of name calling (in real life, not on this board) from so-called left wing, open-minded people against those who do not wish to see two men cavorting as lovers. Avoiding this film is an excellent opportunity for people with opposing views to exercise their right to ignore and shut the hell up. However, not going to see this film does not make someone a homophobe or whatever loaded term gets thrown at people who don't expressly condone, shall we say, non-traditional sexual orientations. I wonder if a movie centering on an abusive and doomed gay relationship would be allowed in theatres. Liberals aren't more enlightened and open=minded. They just have different prejudices. Words like racist, homophobe and conservative are pejoratives used by leftists in an attempt to trivialize the opinions of dissenters.

That being said, I will probably be seeing this film in the theatre. On a date. With a girl. And I will still refer to it as Bareback Mountain. And I will be voting NDP in the upcoming federal election here in Canada.

Prediction: I bet this film is every bit as nauseating and retarded as just about every other sanguine, epic romance ever made.

Edited January 9, 2006 by Eschelon

[A440]

2. Even more baffling and humorous ('cept that it's true) is the intolerance and name-calling that comes from the political left, the self-appointed guardians of civil liberties except for those who disagree...

Ah, yes, the intolerance of the left: another bromide straight from Fox TV and talk radio propaganda. That's the best you can do? Your own name-calling? "Oooh, you disagree with me, you're intolerant, nyah, nyah." No, you just have no answer for my arguments. Pathetic, as promised.

Oh, I forgot, the right is so tolerant, unless you want to teach evolution, or do scientific research that could save lives with stem cells, or claim the right to privacy in your own body. Pat Robertson, beacon of tolerance. Samuel Alito, champion of sexual equality. What a bunch of tolerant guys. Man, I wish I was invited to their parties, they must be wild romps.

Eschelon, you should read "The Celluloid Closet." Until recently, homosexuality in the movies was nothing but abusive doomed gay relationships, or evil homosexual killers (c.f. "Dressed to Kill").

I don't tolerate specious arguments. I don't tolerate appeals to "standards of morality" that assume some eternal natural order prevailed in 1952 (when of course there were no homosexuals whatsoever). I don't tolerate the extremely peculiar notion that homosexuals have to behave any better than the heterosexuals who were, last I looked, still running things. You're welcome to feel as uncomfortable with or uninterested in homosexual love as you want. No one's forcing you to see the movie. Stop pretending anyone is.

I still don't understand why other straight guys are so freaked out by this. It's one movie a year out of hundreds. I don't think it's going to end the procreative urge, destroy heterosexual marriage, or turn your children into....cowboys. Who, come to think of it, spend a lot of time alone with the guys.....

[Eschelon]

I think we can all agree that this discussion could become totally pointless in a hurry.

I propose a poll to measure th following:

1. How many straight people did or did not enjoy this film?
2. How many gay people did or did not enjoy this film?
3. How many straight people think they might see it?
4. How many gay people think they might see it?
5. How many straight people refuse to see it?
6. How many gay people refuse to see it?

A little market research could provide some data to discuss instead of arguing about politics and morality. Edited January 9, 2006 by Eschelon

[akijikan]

Eschelon, I believe the intent of the person who started this thread was to creat a philosophical discussion.

This thread is not pointless. If anything, it is paramount to what makes us who we are.

The discussion of politics, morality, and other such issues in the "arena of ideas" should be valued, protected, expressed, encouraged, and uplifted.

Now to weigh in on the philosphical discussion:

First I have to applaud smkranz's first response, at least he admits to what he is.

I'm not interested in the movie, not because its about gay cowboys, it just looks uninteresting to me.

I hear you Syrius, that sort of thing has been going on for a while, when you're not doing well, its obviously not anything you're doing wrong, everyone around you must be homophobic...(or a lot of times this is done with racism too).

I find it really stupid how Hollywood cannot portray straight men as sensitive, caring and loving.

Yeah I know what you mean, or how about a father who isn't a moron. An active attempt at undermining the stereotypical suburban family model? Who knows? I leave that conspiracy stuff to the realm of Rush Limbaugh and his listeners.

A440, not everyone says "Oh Bush, idiot." (just those who have been over exposed to tv-news) and thinks him being in the white house is a bad thing, so to try say "Why are you worried about x when we've got him there?" isn't going to work.

I don't know what you're talking about with "fundamentalist Christians tweaking health and education programs" and I agree about the rappers issue. What does it say about a society where that stuff is so popular?

I definately agree that we need to lose the "dumbo machismo" but it doesn't need to be replaced with political correctness.

By the same token that you denouce the "pervasive PC conspiracy" It sounds like you engage in the same thing, except its all a pervasive right-wing conspiracy.

Addressing smkranz's second comment:

2. Even more baffling and humorous ('cept that it's true) is the intolerance and name-calling that comes from the political left, the self-appointed guardians of civil liberties except for those who disagree...

It's definately coming from both sides, but I do agree there is a certain ammount of irony when the left lifts themselves up like they're above all the muddy politics, but then delivers some of the most stinging barbs to those that speak against them. As a republican, I dish it out, but I'm not better than anyone, but neither am I worse that anyone for it. Also don't let this be generalized to all left, this is certainly not the whole, nor can we consicely describe the left as a whole without getting something wrong.

On the same side of the coin, A440, You assume the the right is populated entirely by religious nuts and this is certainly far from the case. I've worked in a lot of republican campaigns and the base of support aren't these nut-tastic 700-club-watchin' bible thumpin' rednecks. Yes they are a faction in the republican party, but not a majority. You'd be surprised at how many sensible conservatives there are.

[Bananatree]

Homophobes don't like gay people, it's tragic, but true.

Who knows why they don't? Only they really do. Is it irrational? Sometimes. Is it their right to choose? Yes.

I could talk for hours about how you're missing out on a (possibly) great movie, but I won't.

Thread going nowhere fast. You can start a REAL movie thread, if you actually watch the movie that is.