Discovered a way to remaster my CDs

[Sony_Fan]

Some of my CDs are not as loud as others, mostly CDs from the '80s and '90s. I've figured out a way to creat copies of the CDs but with higher volume. Here's the procedure:

1.) Create MP3s at highest bit-rate of CD

2.) Use MP3Gain (search on yahoo) to raise the volume of the songs (around 98db to 100db)

3.) Use SS 3.4 or any other software to make an audio CD from the MP3s.

4.) The resulting CD will be louder than the original.

Try it!

[1kyle]

But you will have lost "fidelity" or quality. One of the effects you'll often find when converting Lossless format music to a "Lossy" one such as MP3 is that it will often sound louder.

Your only real chance at reproducing the original quality is to rip in WAV and with some judicious editing with some pretty sophisticated sound editing software you *might* be able to increase the gain --otherwise you are just introducing "noise" and above all artifacts into your MP3 version.

You can get some idea of this at work when watching a lot of TV programs -- Haven't you often noticed how the commercials always seem to sound MUCH MUCH louder than the film / other programs. --This is not due to any "conspiracy theory" of "waking you up so that you will buy the products in the commercials" but simply that the sound in the commercials is hideously compressed.

(I know a lot of terrestial TV has completely compressed sound --but Surround Sound movies watched from SKY via a decent Optical cable and with a decent surround decoder are of reasonably good sound quality).

Cheers

-K

Edited March 9, 2006 by 1kyle

[Sony_Fan]

But you will have lost "fidelity". One of the effects you'll often find when converting Lossless format music to a "Lossy" one such as MP3 is that it will often sound louder.

You can get some idea of this at work when watching a lot of TV programs -- Haven't you often noticed how the commercials always seem to sound MUCH MUCH louder than the film / other programs. --This is not due to a "conspiracy theory" but simply the sound in the commercials is hideously compressed.

(I know a lot of terrestial TV has completely compressed sound --but Surround Sound movies watched from SKY via a decent Optical cable and with a decent surround decoder are of reasonably good sound quality).

Cheers

-K

You're right, this is why I stated to make the MP3s at the highest bitrate possible to preserve sound quality.

[KrazyIvan]

If you like the way it sounds, I say go for it and enjoy your music.

[1kyle]

The trouble is that at ANY bit rate the MP3 Codec just won't hack it -- even at 320 --

OK MP3 is universally recognized and for a lot of people "acceptable" but it's not a particularly good codec --especially for music containing a lot of "Transients" and passages with a high dynamic range.

Depending on the CD's you are trying to "Recover" it might be better to try an alternate codec --especially if you want to re-burn back into CD's (If you re-convert back again from MP3 you've got an EVEN WORSE problem as the algorithms to recreate the CD PCM file have to make best guesses on how to create the missing data from the MP3 file and insert it back into a PCM file.

(Rather like trying to print a 2MP picture from a mobile phone camera on paper 16 ins X 20 ins --- would look pixellated and horrible).

Converting to MP3 in the first place is to a lot of people not all that good --but converting that MP3 file back to PCM / WAV is just compounding the crime -- a lot of music done like that won't sound in any way like the original composer / musicians intended it to be heard.

Cheers

-K

Edited March 9, 2006 by 1kyle

[greenmachine]

Maybe this method works for you, but soundquality-wise it's propably not the best for everyone. Most (if not all) CDs have been normalized before being published. If you raise the gain further without applying some form of dynamic compression, you'll risk introducing clipping. If you apply dynamic compression, you'll decrease the original dynamics. Introducing a lossy psychoacoustic compression scheme won't be beneficial for the sound quality either. You could simply use the volume control of your stereo to raise the volume instead in order not to do more damage than good.

Edited March 10, 2006 by greenmachine

[1kyle]

That's what most people would do of course.

With older Cd's which themselves were probably re-mastered from the wax masters (which were used when pressing Vinyl discs) you can't help getting some of the old "vinyl" type scratches and low gain etc.

I've got some CD's (transferred to MD of course) made from 1920's recordings which were certainly produced on less than stellar equipment (may have even been WIRE recorders - I don't know).

I still enjoy these scratches and all.

That's what the Volume control is for!. Just enjoy the music --and if you can't have it loud enough to compete with a Pneumatic Road Drill --never mind --just enjoy anyway and listen a bit harder.

Cheers

-K

Edited March 9, 2006 by 1kyle

[Ral-Clan]

Some of my CDs are not as loud as others, mostly CDs from the '80s and '90s. I've figured out a way to creat copies of the CDs but with higher volume. Here's the procedure:

1.) Create MP3s at highest bit-rate of CD

2.) Use MP3Gain (search on yahoo) to raise the volume of the songs (around 98db to 100db)

3.) Use SS 3.4 or any other software to make an audio CD from the MP3s.

4.) The resulting CD will be louder than the original.

Try it!

I agree, you are doing this the wrong way. By converting to MP3 and then burning back to CD you are degrading the sound quality ---- rip to WAV instead. Also by using ONLY gain you are introducing digital clipping, which at its worst can sound like little snaps or cracks on the audio -- Use normalization or audio compression (not the same thing as data compression e.g. MP3, ATRAC, JPEG). I believe NERO BURNING ROM has an option to do all of the above.

[Sony_Fan]

I agree, you are doing this the wrong way. By converting to MP3 and then burning back to CD you are degrading the sound quality ---- rip to WAV instead. Also by using ONLY gain you are introducing digital clipping, which at its worst can sound like little snaps or cracks on the audio -- Use normalization or audio compression (not the same thing as data compression e.g. MP3, ATRAC, JPEG). I believe NERO BURNING ROM has an option to do all of the above.

I've used MP3Gain to normalize my MP3s and then I convert them to ATRAC3+ and then transfer them to my RH10. I have not heard any snaps or cracks. What's digital clipping by the way?

[Ishiyoshi]

*topic moved

[timonoj]

I vote for the CD to WAV, normalization (the old Cool Edit Pro also does it, in batch mode, for a list of songs), then reburn...

[KrazyIvan]

C'mon guys.

I am just as much a tech junkie as anybody here. Sometimes we just make things to technical for our own good. Yes, I do agree that going the mp3 route is not the best option but if the guy likes the way it sounds, who are we to judge?

Everybody has different listening preferences so although technically his method may not be the best, it works for him. Maybe he will discover that he does not like the way he is increasing the volume of his music and try something different.

I guess what I am saying is that we should drop the whole "techier than thou" attitude. Can't you just tell the guy, "hey, that's great but maybe you would like to try it this way because it's better." instead of flat out calling somebody stupid.

I mean this the best way possible and do not mean to offend.

[timonoj]

Good point, KrazyIvan, i think that's the best way. However sometimes u don't realize that u're being rude...

[greenmachine]

*original post edited for better compatibility

[rayzray]

my two cents is that in those cases; i just re-record in (Analogue) through an equalizer and boost up the volume;; and tweeking the bass and treble etc;; and sometimes pass it through my Boss Effects processor to get some "ambience"..

Analogue can be a GOOD thing..

and, i am not putting down anyones method of transfers; just adding another posibility.

it's all in the "Ears" in the long run;; and how it sounds through your various listening situations; like big stereo systhem; or ear buds from a portable unit; etc..

everyone is here to learn in a way; i say digital recording can be bad sometimes and analogue can be good sometimes;; or as i (rayzray ) do/does; i "Do" both.

as much as i hate mp-3's; i admire the mass of ppl that swear by it; and so-be-it; the saga continues.

Edited March 11, 2006 by rayzray

[timonoj]

Well, rayzray, i have to desagree with you. Even if your analog audio system is one of the bests, it always add a very little (but it's there) analog noise, produced by magnetic redundancies around all the cables and circuits involved. Since the source is a CD, wich IS ALREADY digital, if you transfer to your computer, no extra noise is added. 0 in the CD means 0 in the computer, and 1 means 1. No transfer error is possible (maybe it is, but u can detect it and correct it), then you proccess it (here the resulting quality relies TOTALLY on the editing program capacities), and then you record back to a new CD. The audio quality will remain the same. If we were talking about a vinyl, then it would be a different tale (u need an analog cable for transferring, and the sound card's capturing quality gets directly involved) but since we were talking about remastering CDs, i think the best way is digital.

Edited March 11, 2006 by timonoj

[The Low Volta]

timonoj... I think rayzray was actually just trying to say that it's a matter of live and let live... he enjoys the analogue-feel of a piece of music so he likes to introduce an analogue stage in the remastering-proces. ChrisG is happy with a lossy digital step... so let him be... if your ears are happy, you're happy and we'll all be happy as it's one nag less (jus' kiddin')

so let's just use this thread for ppl to explain their ways of doing this and if you see something you like, try it, if you don't...feel free to ask questions about any method, but without wanting to slack off any method or stating too much truths please

master and let remaster...not?

[timonoj]

Hehehee, right u are...Didn't want to be rude... Just suggesting a "better" way. Of course everybody can choose their own way! (i should have added that to my last post...)