Hi-MD music ----> MP3 player via USB (WITHOUT using a PC)?

[Big Yin]

(Apologies for bold lettering, I just wanted to avoid any confusion)

I have searched this site and others on the Internet but cannot find the answers I need. Apologies if I am asking oft repeated questions. I would be very grateful for any help...

....

I have a Sony NH900 Hi-MD. I am going to buy an MP3 player, probably flash-based but possibly microdrive/HDD, which will be my first foray into MP3 players.

I would like to know if I could directly transfer the music from my portable Hi-MD player over to the MP3 player using a USB cable...without using a PC. Simply a direct transfers from player to player.

If the MP3 player works as an external drive then presumably it should work just the same as uploading from Hi-MD player to PC. But as I understand it the problem is the fact that the mnidisc music is in ATRAC, which MP3 players will not play, and so it must be converted to MP3/Wav on a PC first, then transferred to the MP3 player. If anyone can confirm this for me I would be very grateful.

If indeed it is not possible to do this with my NH900, is it possible to do it with a more up-to-date Hi-MD player? Or alternatively, are there any MP3 players that would do this job - the Sony MP3 Walkman players perhaps?...again, I emphasise, without using a PC.

If direct USB transfers are absolutely impossible without using a PC then I know I can at least transfer directly from NH900 to flash MP3 player via line-in (presumably only in real time???). In which case, could you recommend the best MP3 player for doing this, for both the flash-based type and microdrive/HDD?.......I have read very bad things about Creative's line-in recording function on their flash players so would like to know of better alternatives that do line-in recording very well.

....

The reason for my questions is that, for my personal usage/circumstances, I don't like being tied down to relying solely on my PC for music. So if it is possible I would like the MP3 player I am going to buy to be usable in conjunction with my Hi-MD recordings without a PC as a necessity.

Thanks very much for any help you can give me.

Edited July 9, 2006 by Big Yin

[Sparky191]

Depends on the format of the music on your MD's. Are they MP3 or ATRAC?

If they are ATRAC then theres nothing you can do.

If Mp3's you might be able to transfer them to a MP3 player that reads filetree and has a USBTG port. ASFAIK thats really only a Cowon X5. Dunno if it will work though.

[Big Yin]

Sparky, thanks for the reply.

They were recorded direct from CD using Hi-SP mode, so not in MP3 format then. So is that definitive - it's impossible to transfer to MP3 player without a PC?

Any recommendations on relatively small MP3 players - 1GB to 6GB - that allow good line-in recording from Hi-MD? I know there are quite a few that have line-in, but I'm dubious about how good they will be at doing this.

[Sparky191]

Check out Cowons iAudio players. They are usually limited to 160kps max.

To be honest unless you've a PC it makes no sense to replace a HiMD unit with a Flash Player.

[Big Yin]

Yeah, I'm now thinking that myself. I only fancied a flash player 'cause they're soooo small, but that alone isn't a good enough reason for me to buy one.

So...I think it's time for a new minidisc player/recorder then. I've been looking at the RH10 model, or the RH910, or maybe another NH900!! The RH1 is outside my price range, especially as there are some very good deals on the older ones on Ebay.

Are there any real advantages with the RH10 over the RH910 or NH900? If you were given a choice to have only one of them which would it be?

Is anything on the RH10 proprietary? I hate proprietary, which is why I bought the NH900 and not the NH1.

I'd really appreciate any further thoughts. Thanks.

[NIGHTS]

Yeah, I'm now thinking that myself. I only fancied a flash player 'cause they're soooo small, but that alone isn't a good enough reason for me to buy one.

So...I think it's time for a new minidisc player/recorder then. I've been looking at the RH10 model, or the RH910, or maybe another NH900!! The RH1 is outside my price range, especially as there are some very good deals on the older ones on Ebay.

Are there any real advantages with the RH10 over the RH910 or NH900? If you were given a choice to have only one of them which would it be?

Is anything on the RH10 proprietary? I hate proprietary, which is why I bought the NH900 and not the NH1.

I'd really appreciate any further thoughts. Thanks.

if you want to play mp3 on your hi-md be aware that the 2nd gen units (RH910, RH10) have a very noticeable roll off of the high frequencies only on mp3 playback (perhaps just to make atrac3plus look that much better). Besides size and mp3 playback I dont really think there's that much difference between the first two generations.

If sound quality is of real importance I suggest either save up for the RH1 (GREAT sounding unit btw) or, if size matters more, buy the RH10 (basically an RH910 with bigger OLED screen) and convert your songs to atrac3plus. To my knowledge the RH10 and 910 both use a standard USB mini plug on the unit.

Personally I'd buy the RH10 just cause it has a really nice screen. But ive already pre ordered an RH1.

[Sparky191]

The MP3 roll off is not an issue if you are not using a PC as you'll always be recording direct to ATRAC.

As a player I'd go with a RH10 simply because it has a screen you can use at night without a remote. (I don't like remotes). Other that you might aswell stick with the NH900 as without a PC the newer models have no advantages for you.

[jaylen]

Besides size and mp3 playback I dont really think there's that much difference between the first two generations.

Personally I'd buy the RH10 just cause it has a really nice screen.

1st generation (NHXXX) can record (in real-time) in legacy formats, SP, LP2, LP4; 2nd generation cannot - this won't really matter to the original poster, but just an FYI that there is more than a "size and mp3 playback difference" between Gen 1 and 2. There are a few threads on the RH10 stating how the OLED screen is difficult to see during daylight and its face is easily scratched. Not that I'm picking the RH910 over the RH10, but it's just good to know the cons of a unit, in addition to the pros, when deciding on a purchase. Good luck.

[Sparky191]

You can shield the screen on a RH10 to see it. Which is easily done. You need a light to see the screen on the other models in the dark. Which is not always handy.

[jaylen]

You can shield the screen on a RH10 to see it. Which is easily done. You need a light to see the screen on the other models in the dark. Which is not always handy.

Having to use both hands to manipulate an MD unit (shielding + button pressing, etc) would deter me from getting it. But, that's just me. I've never used an RH10 so I'm going off of the difficult-to-see complaints of current RH10 users. Both the "difficulties" of the RH10 and RH910 screen can be remedied with a decent remote. I'm a remote person so that may not be the best solution for people who despise remotes. And personally, I would skip Gen 2 altogether and stick with Gen 1 or the RH1.

[Sparky191]

Or you could stand under a tree or in a doorway, if you need both hands

I'd prefer that to 6 feet of cables, just to use a remote that really is more awkward to use then the unit itself.

[jaylen]

Or you could stand under a tree or in a doorway, if you need both hands

I'd prefer that to 6 feet of cables, just to use a remote that really is more awkward to use then the unit itself.

lol Say what? A tree or doorway will free up both your hands? How do you intend on looking at the RH10's screen? Under a doorway, both hands free, and looking through your pocket with x-ray vision? Or is the tree going to hold your MD unit for you?

A remote may be awkward to you, but it's perfect for me and I don't consider myself very dextrous. Different strokes for different folks. You go with your "hold the MD in one hand and shield with the other; or, find a tree and doorway," and I'll go with my "MD in pocket and one hand using the remote." Thanks, but I prefer to have one hand free and not have the worry/need to look for trees and doorways whenever I want to look at my MD unit.

As for 6 feet of cable, either you're incredibly short or you're exaggerating remote cord length. Key words: Sumajin Smartwrap or twisty-tie.

Anyway............ to get back on topic. Since the original poster already has an NH900, getting the RH10 will complement it. NH900 for daytime, RH10 for night time.

[Sparky191]

"If ... YOU .... ...need...to...use both hands" or three

The point is you need something extra to see then non backlit screens in the dark. You don't need anything "extra" to see the RH10 screen day or night. Though its a design flaw which ever way you look at it. Most MP3 player screens (other than Sony's) don't have the problem as they can be seen just aswell day or night.

Shouldn't need a remote on a unit as small as HiMD. Again poor design. The only reason I've used them on all my MD and HiMD units is to use them at night. But of all the remotes I've used Sony's are some of the worst. On my MC38EL you twist the volume down to turn it up! How logical is that! On the remote pressing down on play pauses, but on the unit itself NH700 it doesn't. On the DH10P it does! On the NH700 up/down in the joystick controls volume, on the DH10P it controls groups and volume is a seperate button entirely. Madness.

The only thing consistent about Sonys MD/HiMD controls and associated remotes is that they are inconsistent ergonomically.

Edited July 10, 2006 by Sparky191

[KrazyIvan]

Getting back on topic... I have the X5L and it can record from a line in up to 320kbps. It is only when you record from the internal mic that you are limited in the bitrates. You should be able to record in realtime from a Hi-MD unit to the X5L but I have not tried it.

[Sparky191]

For some reason I was only thinking of Flash based units. Sorry.

[Big Yin]

:D Didn't mean to start a war over the relative merits of back-lit screens and Sony remotes. This place is fantastic. :D

Anyhoo, I think it will be another NH900 for me, or maybe hold out to see what the next model after the RH1 is (I don't really fancy the RH1 that much).

I've done a bit more reading about the RH10 and it doesn't have the "Group" button on the unit itself like the NH900 does - you can only access "Group" via menu. I use the "Group" button a lot on the NH900 and find it extremely convenient. Wouldn't want to be without. If I'm wrong about the RH10 let me know - I'm assuming that it is quite fiddly to change groups compared to the Nh900 (without using the remote)??

The back-lit screen on the RH10 would be really nice, but I can do without.

P.S. Funnily enough, having praised the NH900 "Group" button, I've actually been having problems with it lately. But maybe that's a topic for another thread??... But I'll put it here anyway. So here's the problem: Every now and then, when I press "Group" button while playing music, the display goes into the main menu just like it does when you press the seperate "Menu" button. This is very strange, and very annoying. Shouldn't happen. Anyone else experience the same thing?? Any suggestions on how to sort it??

Edited July 10, 2006 by Big Yin

[jaylen]

"If ... YOU .... ...need...to...use both hands" or three

The point is you need something extra to see then non backlit screens in the dark. You don't need anything "extra" to see the RH10 screen day or night. Though its a design flaw which ever way you look at it. Most MP3 player screens (other than Sony's) don't have the problem as they can be seen just aswell day or night.

Shouldn't need a remote on a unit as small as HiMD. Again poor design. The only reason I've used them on all my MD and HiMD units is to use them at night. But of all the remotes I've used Sony's are some of the worst. On my MC38EL you twist the volume down to turn it up! How logical is that! On the remote pressing down on play pauses, but on the unit itself NH700 it doesn't. On the DH10P it does! On the NH700 up/down in the joystick controls volume, on the DH10P it controls groups and volume is a seperate button entirely. Madness.

The only thing consistent about Sonys MD/HiMD controls and associated remotes is that they are inconsistent ergonomically.

lol Sorry but your tree and doorway comment still don't make any sense, no matter how many smileys you attempt to squeeze into your explanation. Just let it go that you tried to be clever and it didn't work.

And no, without the backlight, the newer iPods with color screen are pretty difficult to see day or night. And again, no, you DO need remotes on some Hi-MD units - look at the player-only units like the EH1 and EH50/70 (no LCD screens), NH1 (1-line LCD screen that doesn't display text), and the NH3D (downloader with no screen). Not to mention all the other MDLP or legacy units (Sony, Sharp, Pana, etc) that are completely remote-dependent. Don't forget that MD is also used for playback and a lot of people like to "see" what they're listening to. If you own any higher-end units like the EH1 or NH1, you'd know the importance of a remote and having full function of the unit.

Agreed that the 38EL, 33EL, and other stick-type remotes are a poor design, which is why Sony made the 40ELK, but some people are too cheap to upgrade or cannot afford it. But, you won't find 40ELK owners complaining now, will you? Like I said before, different strokes for different folks. Just be glad that your somewhat budget 38EL is compatible with as many MD units as it is. If you hate Sony remotes, you will despise Sharp remotes.

:D Didn't mean to start a war over the relative merits of back-lit screens and Sony remotes. This place is fantastic. :D

P.S. Funnily enough, having praised the NH900 "Group" button, I've actually been having problems with it lately. But maybe that's a topic for another thread??... But I'll put it here anyway. So here's the problem: Every now and then, when I press "Group" button while playing music, the display goes into the main menu just like it does when you press the seperate "Menu" button. This is very strange, and very annoying. Shouldn't happen. Anyone else experience the same thing?? Any suggestions on how to sort it??

lol Big Yin, you've started no war. I believe in healthy discussion. If some people take things too personally, well, then they need some time off from foruming. Easy as that.

Edit: As for your button problems, try this thread: http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=7661&hl= . It deals with the NH900. Good luck.

Edited July 10, 2006 by jaylen

[Sparky191]

Well as they say if I have to explain it you'll never understand. I was just stating fact. Its easier to create shadow than a light. Dunno whats hard about that.

Obviously you do NEED remotes, on the units without display, but you shouldn't.

Regardless of the unit for me all screens should have a switchable backlight. Otherwise it useless at night. Goes for pretty much any portable device with a screen. As for only having full use of the unit on the remote, thats form over function IMO. Besides a lot of them don't. Recording needs to be initiated on the main unit.

40ELK is woeful. Can't even see a full song title without scrolling. How great is that? Compared to the iAudio remote its terrible. But its the best HiMD remote. I'll admit the 38EL was cheap. €15 from ebay. I only need it for the backlight. I've a Sharp MD-SR75 here with backlit remote. Much better (ergonomically) then the G750 remote and 38EL.

As for too cheap. Thats true. The new units really offer "ME" nothing significant extra than my NH700 which I generally only use for recording. I have MP3 players which are better suited to playback. Plus the RH1 is about 33% more expensive (where I am) than a new 30GB ipod or Zen Micro Video. Sony's flagship HiMD uses what? MC38EL. And you can't use all the RH1's feature without it. AFAIK.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Sparky191

[jaylen]

Well as they say if I have to explain it you'll never understand. I was just stating fact. Its easier to great shadow than a light. Dunno whats hard about that.

Hmm. "It's easier to great shadow than a light"? If that's the gist of the explanation then yup, I'll never understand. LOL. Moving on...

The RH1 is regarded as "the recorder's unit," and less as a playback-mainly unit. I'm assuming you're a field recorder and you stated that you don't like remotes. So I can see why Sony wouldn't want to put the expensive 40ELK with the RH1. If someone with an RH1 wants the 40ELK bad enough, then let them buy it separately. $$$ Cha ching for Sony.

The 40ELK does have its flaws, but I don't know of any other mp3 player that can actually play the full song title without scrolling. Even on the unit displays of Hi-MD and iPods et al, a majority of the time the title needs to be scrolled. But, I'm with you on the RH1. Doesn't offer me anything more than what I've already got. I guess we'll agree that we're both saving money from having to buy one.

[Sparky191]

Ah yes a miss spelling makes it soooo hard to understand ...Have fun with this

http://quizilla.com/users/WickedGigglyMist...ling%20Nazi%3F/

You need to buy better players. Nearly every player I've used only needs to scroll on long track titles. Maybe 10% of the time max. The HiMD's need to scroll on 95% of titles. Probably U2's "One" is the only on it doesn't.

Like I said at the beginning the only newer unit with any advantage over a MH900 for someone who doesn't use a computer, is the RH10 or DH10P becasue of the screen. Unless shading the display is beyond you. Otherwise buy a backlit remote or bring a torch. (theres been discussion here before about micro torches). In fact for the cost of a new HIMD you could buy a computer.

[jaylen]

Ah yes a miss spelling makes it soooo hard to understand ...Have fun with this

http://quizilla.com/users/WickedGigglyMist...ling%20Nazi%3F/

You need to buy better players. Nearly every player I've used only needs to scroll on long track titles. Maybe 10% of the time max. The HiMD's need to scroll on 95% of titles. Probably U2's "One" is the only on it doesn't.

Like I said at the beginning the only newer unit with any advantage over a MH900 for someone who doesn't use a computer, is the RH10 or DH10P becasue of the screen. Unless shading the display is beyond you. Otherwise buy a backlit remote or bring a torch. (theres been discussion here before about micro torches). In fact for the cost of a new HIMD you could buy a computer.

lol So what exactly did you mispell? I think what you meant is you mis-typed/spoke. Great and create are close, but perhaps you're a little rattled and wanted to reply quickly. By the way, I like how you've edited that post, but it's a shame my quote of your post is still visible.

I need to buy better players? lol Sorry, but that comment is moot. Unlike you, I don't mind that the titles or artists scroll. 10% of yours scroll, and maybe 90% of mine scroll. So, what differs is our music titles, not the players. You brought up scrolling as a disadvantage of the 40ELK while I don't find any aggravation with it. And, I just stated that nearly every Hi-MD player has to scroll most titles and you've only repeated my point.

How is the DH10P an advantage for someone who doesn't use a computer? You do realize that it has no mic or line-in and can only download to MD via SonicStage? I'm not sure if you're keen on most of the high-end units. Please visit this section for clarification: http://www.minidisc.org/equipment_browser.html

Also, the weakness (if you will) of the RH10 is that it cannot record in legacy modes like SP, LP2, LP4, making it a "less capable" unit compared to the NH900, in my opinion; and, I fully respect RH10 owners' opinions when they think otherwise. I'm not interested in either the RH10 or RH910, so please stop trying to convince me that providing shade is easier than providing light - I also have a 40ELK so the suggestion to buy a backlit remote is also useless. And, I don't know where you buy your computers, but both of mine (and I'm sure other people's) cost well over what a Hi-MD unit would cost, RH1 and Onkyo Hi-MD decks included. And, I'm not counting e-Machines.

[Sparky191]

lol So what exactly did you mispell? I think what you meant is you mis-typed/spoke. Great and create are close, but perhaps you're a little rattled and wanted to reply quickly. By the way, I like how you've edited that post, but it's a shame my quote of your post is still visible.

I changed it because you didn't understand it. "To Err Is Human, To Forgive Divine"

I need to buy better players? lol Sorry, but that comment is moot. Unlike you, I don't mind that the titles or artists scroll. 10% of yours scroll, and maybe 90% of mine scroll. So, what differs is our music titles, not the players. You brought up scrolling as a disadvantage of the 40ELK while I don't find any aggravation with it. And, I just stated that nearly every Hi-MD player has to scroll most titles and you've only repeated my point.

The point is that too much scrolling is a bad UI design. That it doesn't bother you is a different issue.

How is the DH10P an advantage for someone who doesn't use a computer? You do realize that it has no mic or line-in and can only download to MD via SonicStage? I'm not sure if you're keen on most of the high-end units. Please visit this section for clarification:

The OP (original poster) has a NH900 for recording. So he has the means to create discs. The DP10P is a better player, has a better screen and has a camera. Better controls too (Vol control excluded). IMO.

Also, the weakness (if you will) of the RH10 is that it cannot record in legacy modes like SP, LP2, LP4, making it a "less capable" unit compared to the NH900, in my opinion; and, I fully respect RH10 owners' opinions when they think otherwise. I'm not interested in either the RH10 or RH910, so please stop trying to convince me that providing shade is easier than providing light - I also have a 40ELK so the suggestion to buy a backlit remote is also useless.

The comments were aimed at the OP.

And, I don't know where you buy your computers, but both of mine (and I'm sure other people's) cost well over what a Hi-MD unit would cost, RH1 and Onkyo Hi-MD decks included. And, I'm not counting e-Machines.

A simple office computer new or used would be sufficient to enhance the HiMD experience. A new RH1 is almost €379 here. A brand new Dell Laptop is only €100 more. A PC with a screen would be less again. You can buy from the Dell outlet or just use a used PC or build your own. You can run an optimised XP happily on a PII 400 with 192MB of RAM. They throw those out around here all the time. You can't give them away. You can even buy 2nd hand PC's from the web. http://www.2ndchancepc.co.uk/

Nothing wrong with eMachines. Basic Office Machine. Most people don't need anything better.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Sparky191

[jaylen]

If one is looking for a player, then the DH10P has poor battery life compared to other player-only units, especially if the camera and screen backlight are used often.

lol You really didn't have to edit for me because it never made any sense to begin with and TBH, I wasn't truly interested in the explanation. It was just funny to see the struggle. But, OK, I gotcha. The fact that you kept responding to my posts led me to believe that those "helpful" comments were aimed at me, especially the shade/free-hand/remote banter. But, you say that those comments were directed towards the original poster, so I'll refrain from replying and reading further. I'll take your word for it.

"To Err Is Human, To Forgive Divine"

Edit: I never said I was a god.

Peace.

Edited July 11, 2006 by jaylen

[Sparky191]

...

I've done a bit more reading about the RH10 and it doesn't have the "Group" button on the unit itself like the NH900 does - you can only access "Group" via menu. I use the "Group" button a lot on the NH900 and find it extremely convenient. Wouldn't want to be without. If I'm wrong about the RH10 let me know - I'm assuming that it is quite fiddly to change groups compared to the Nh900 (without using the remote)??

The back-lit screen on the RH10 would be really nice, but I can do without. ...

Yeah that group thing bugs me too. As I mentioned earlier the DH10P has a group button on the joystick and a display button, and backlit screen. (The best features of the remotes IMO.) But on the DH10P theres no need for the remote at all. I was never interested in the DH10P till I noticed that. I think the scroll wheel is better then the roller on the RH10/RH910 aswell. You can use all the controls one handed, using your thumb to control everthing, quite easily. Thats why I like the scroll wheel myself. Theres some excellent pictorials on the DH10P in the gallery. If I saw one cheap I might pick on up. Looks a bit more robust than the RH10 too. Its a cool gadget too.

You can shield the screen on a RH10 to see it. Which is easily done. You need a light to see the screen on the other models in the dark. Which is not always handy.

Having to use both hands to manipulate an MD unit (shielding + button pressing, etc) would deter me from getting it. But, that's just me....

Lets be clear. I never said you needed both hands. You started that bizarre OTT posting.

[jaylen]

And, since that last comment is directed at me, I can reply.

If you noticed, I brought it back on topic.

Anyway............ to get back on topic. Since the original poster already has an NH900, getting the RH10 will complement it. NH900 for daytime, RH10 for night time.

But, you just had to try to clarify your unclever doorway/tree comment. I may have started it, but you certainly propagated it.

The point is you need something extra to see then non backlit screens in the dark. You don't need anything "extra" to see the RH10 screen day or night.

[Sparky191]

...by being the 3rd to suggest the RH10.

When I use a PDA, Camera or laptop screen thats hard to see, and I need to use both hands, I would step into the shade of a doorway or tree. Nothing clever or funny intended. I was amused you thought thats a bigger deal than carrying a torch or buying an extra remote. You already have one with a HiMD, you shouldn't need to buy another, just make the device usable at night. Obviously you think it is a major deal to just shade the unit. I'll agree to disagree.

[Big Yin]

:D This squabble is very entertaining :D

To be honest though I'm now quite confused. I wonder if we could try and clarify for the sake of anyone/everyone reading this: Is it better to use a tree or to use a doorway for the best functioning of the unit?

It seems to me that a door might be a more practical solution but I'm willing to spend the extra time and money to get a tree if it would improve things significantly. If the tree is the way to go, can anyone suggest the best type to get. I'm not bothered about looks. As long as it functions properly and is dependable that's fine for me. I'm sorry if these are questions that are asked here a lot but I'm a complete novice with all of this technical stuff, and I couldn't find anything using the search function.

Thanks very much for any more help you can give me. You lot are fantastic.

[Richard]

As far as I can make out this thread is going nowhere fast.

* Moved to Find Your Minidisc section and closed. (if anyone can convince me why this should stay open PM me or another member of the moderating team).