Sony replacement to Hi-MD?

[mandeepi]

Basically, been a long time MD user (R50 was the best MD EVER!)..

I need to record for longer than the 8hrs that the hi-md affords me, better battery, but same functionality.

The only thing that comes close to MD is the old old discontinued iriver ifp-999 that is limited to 1gb, might aswell stick with MD.

But has sony come out with a solution?????

The s700 walkmans?

http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shop/p...roducts_id=1846

Combined with the WMC-NWR1 recording cable I can put a converter on the end and plug in my mic with the battery module and still do my live recordings....

http://www.atraclife.com/2006/10/12/new-wa...00fs600-series/

Sounds like a plan, BUT does anyone know if the recordings i make using the line-in can be uploaded by SS then converted to whatever? Any mention of bitrate??

All the reviews so far are rubbish and only cover the most mundane of users, we are MD users and actually need decent info

So has anyone had a chance to try this theroy out yet as I certainly dont want to spend 200 on the player then another 20 shipping that cable over from canada only to find out 1) might not be able to upload 2) line in level even with bat module of my mic isnt good enough to do a loud live recording.

Also what do you think of the plan?

[mandeepi]

wow i guess MD is dead... not even some negative comment to even say its never going to work!

[heathi]

According to the NW-S600 S700F Series Operation Guide that came with my unit you can record via analogue-in, then transfer to your PC via Sonicstage. Recording is possible with 64, 128 and 256kbps Atrac3plus bitrates as well as PCM. I'd try it out myself if I could find anywhere that would sell me the cable!

Edited November 12, 2006 by heathi

[mandeepi]

Excellent, that was incredibly useful. Please let me know if you were able to upload your 256k and convert to wav?

Dont worry about the line in cable, despite what atraclife.com said about the accessories only being available in JP, i dont think it will take to much longer for them to be available to us (im in UK).

Examine...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=300041054500

Once you have confirmed/denied the above, I will buy the s600 ideally as I dont want those proprietary (however you spell it) headphones. Combined with the above cable and slap on a male to female converter, then plug in my powered mic, i'm praying the volume level will be good enough for me to do my live recordings.

My current mic using the line-in on my RH10 is nearly as loud as the mic-in provided I have the line-in set to full. I'd like to then test this compared to the md.

If all goes well, I will buy the 4gb one of this and can kiss my MD good bye.... the whole benefit of this being I can record for like 30hrs!

Do you have the ability to make track marks (of recordings during recording/playback) like on the MD???

According to the NW-S600 S700F Series Operation Guide that came with my unit you can record via analogue-in, then transfer to your PC via Sonicstage. Recording is possible with 64, 128 and 256kbps Atrac3plus bitrates as well as PCM. I'd try it out myself if I could find anywhere that would sell me the cable!

[A440]

Another proprietary port? What's wrong with a nice little Line-in minijack? Do they really need the $$ from the accessories cord?

Also, it seems it's still tethered to SonicStage, though I'd love to find out that I'm wrong about that. At this point, since it's recording in non-DRM formats like .mp3 and PCM, it's really time for drag-and-drop.

Of course, iRiver has intermittently released devices like this over the past few years: notably the T30 1GB flash player/recorder, which has line-in recording, a built-in mic and drag-and-drop. Takes one external AAA battery, too, rather than the rechargeable that's bound to run out when you need it most. Unfortunately, the highest capacity is only 1GB, it only does compressed recording (mp3) and it has a lot of buttons to press a lot of times to do things. Sound quality on recordings doesn't match MD.

Mandeepi, if you want a high-capacity recorder, you could hunt down the iRiver H120 (that's 20 GB) or H140 (40 GB) hard drive recorder, which with Rockbox freeware has most of the capacities (level meter, track marks, PCM) of MD, but only Line-in recording. It's heavier than MD, and if you break it you lose all 20GB, but if capacity is your prime objective....

And yes, the idea of a little 4GB PCM recorder from Sony is very promising. It's just a little annoying to see Sony concentrating on stuff like "jacket search" and noise-cancelling headphones when it could make the ultimate pocket recorder with:

Mic-in (standard jack)

Line-in (standard jack)

PCM recording

Level metering (What is the Record Level "switch," anyway?)

Track marking

Drag-and-drop uploading

AA form-factor battery

None of those is beyond current capabilities, and sooner or later someone's going to put them all in one unit. Maybe it will even be Sony.

Edited November 12, 2006 by A440

[mandeepi]

A440, thanks for your response.

Yes I looked at the iriver T30 and am frankly dissapointed as to how they effectively made it stupid. 1) you can only get the 2gb T30 from AU 2) The only iriver that they made right was the ifp-999. This was effectively the perfect hi-md replacement.

the line in via onboard software could be switched to mic-in, the problem here is the poor capacity of 1gb. But it could record only 1gb, im considering buying a second hand one and cutting my losses with all this messing about.

I have seen the 320 of course however like you said, its massive, easily breakable and doesn't match the portability of MD or the ifp-999, its only got hdd going for it. Flash is the future, better battery and I only need over 2gb capacity (4gb ideal, willing to live with 2).

I'm still compromising going this proposed sony route as im totally dependant on the level switch increasing the level of the mic(combined with bat module) to be at line level.

But lets see if the software side at least matches Hi-MD....go on heathi....?

The other near alternative to the ifp-999 or t30 is the iaudio g3, again the problem here is no mic-in, need to bring the mic signal to line level. You ask why such an ancient flash iaudio, because any subsequent ones dont let you record higher than 128k, g3 is the last.

Yes looked at the professional flash recorders like edrol, maratz (however you spell them), although they have the mic-in, they all are pathetic in portability terms, batt only lasts like 4hrs.

Sad that no manufacturer has jumped onto this nice, a flash based mp3 player with mic-in. If only iriver made the ifp-999 now i bet it would have been 4gb...

[mandeepi]

C'mon guys its been a while now, does it let you upload recordings to PC and then convert to wave or not?

[A440]

I, too, would love to hear about uploading from the NW-Sxx series. But the gizmos just came out this week, so all we've seen are product announcements.

------------------------

Don't knock yourself out to get the IFP. I have the IFP-795, the 512MB version (besides capacity, the difference is that the IFP-9xx series took a rechargeable instead of the IFP-7xx AA battery). It simply does not match the recording quality of MD--I think the processor just isn't fast enough. Compressed recording only. And if you make it UMS for real drag-and-drop, its maximum recording bitrate drops to .mp3 at 96kbps. (Apparently iRiver didn't really trust it for higher-bitrate recording.) People also complain about the joystick wearing out. It's a toy.

The unit that iRiver fans consider the "beautiful mistake" is the not the iRiver H320. It's the iRiver H120 or H140, now discontinued but still around on eBay. It's heavy, and line-in only (or built-in mono mic), but with Rockbox, it does have PCM recording and large capacity. The battery lasted through a 10-hour festival recording in .wav.

Still, I prefer MD. Maybe it's just habit.

Edited November 18, 2006 by A440

[mandeepi]

I preferr MD too, just need longer than 8hr recording at a time and need reliable better battery.

C'mon above guy, you said you have the unit... what were your results?

A440, My bro in law does his live recordings on his ifp-999 1gb, has mic-in via software. Its a shame theres not a single small decent player with decent capacity that has a mic-in for recording. I reckon if somone had the balls to make one again they'd make a killing and I'd give my MD up for it.

Made some inquiries into the S706, available at sony centres in UK for £150, I gave them a call to ask them for their return policy and they said if ive opened the box i.e. tried it they wont refund me if i returned so rather not take the risk. But then again can they really do that or they just trying to scare me off for messing about.

Anyway another sony centre i called, the guy specifically said you CANNOT upload the s700 recordings, god knows if thats from experience as most sales staff in stores like this are as bout as knowledgeable in what they sell as dixons staff!

[Sparky191]

Hadn't heard of these. Look interesting alright.

I wonder how the battery life is when recording.

[mikemo]

Hadn't heard of these. Look interesting alright.

I wonder how the battery life is when recording.

The user manual says "10 hours recording". Not bad.

I bought the 2gb model nw-s705 from the local sony store. So far, I'm very happy with it. The recording cable is not available in the US yet. I can get one from Japan, but I'm going to give it a month to see if I can get one here before trying to import one myself.

The recording cable has a male 1/8" stereo jack, and a two position "level" switch to adjust recording level. There is no adjustment on the unit. You can monitor the input on the headphones, and the volume changes the headphone volume, but it doesn't change the recording level. It is a line level input, so a microphone would require some amplifier (I think). It can record at 256k 128k, 64k, and PCM.

Just an fyi, this unit supports many more atrac3+ bitrates than the minidisc units do.

Regards,

Mike M.

[mandeepi]

Sucess..

bare with me, here goes the long journey, got the recording cable imported for egay, then got a 3.5stereo coupler. The recording cable as states does have the level control. Only after I got these 2 did I bother getting the s700 as I could have sold these on ebay and there was no point getting the s700 until i had got all the tools.

Main concern was you couldnt upload your recordings like MD, esp as the manual I downloaded off here has no mention of it. So got the s700 4gb black from sony centre here in UK who had extra 10% off this weekend, so only cost £135, (I SAY ONLY!).

Plug in the recording cable only then gives you the menu options to record, you can record atrac 128/256 pcm. atrac 256 is my preference therefore I think the display said 35hrs roughly so for when I go on my recording trips thats about 3 days of recordings which should just about cut it.

YOU CAN ONLY RECHARGE VIA LAPTOP i.e. usb, this needs to be sorted!

Recording atrac 256 from my MD for a few mins with volume on MD on full, then from my mic with bat module for a few mins... SHOCK HORROR, the tracks are not availabe in SS to upload. I thought all hope was lost.

BUT NO, its far far better than MD, the tracks are viewable in explorer as OMA/PCM files that you simply drag drop to your PC. then drag drop into SS and export to wav, it had no problem doing this, then you can make your mp3's.

Only serious problem was that the recording level was quite poor and quiet, however as stated above once I got it into wav i normalized the wav and it sounded 'right' brought up the level nicly, same goes for the mic recording all though I really need to test the mic recording a bit more.

SO YES MD replacement is here, you can just either go through normalizing the audio post-upload or what I'm looking for is a pre-amp/batery module all in one, any help?

[Sparky191]

There are 3rd party AC USB chargers, and even battery packs that will charge USB so thats not really a major problem. Any powered hub would work aswell. My TFT has one built in and it will charge USB devices even when the PC is off.

A bigger issue, and perhaps this is what you meant. If you are recording and your battery runs low, you can't swap the battery, or run off AC?

[A440]

Sony finally figures out drag-and-drop, nice. 4GB, extra nice.

But this still seems kind of kludgy for a minidisc replacement.

Looks like you have to carry the unit, the recording cord, a preamp and the mic, a lot of connections and boxes, and you don't get recording level adjustment or readout.

Q: Can you add track marks during recording?

Here are some links for preamps:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/...tem/SP-PREAMP-8

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmsterpreamh.htm

I haven't used either one but products from both companies have been reliable.

[mandeepi]

Sony finally figures out drag-and-drop, nice. 4GB, extra nice.

But this still seems kind of kludgy for a minidisc replacement.

Looks like you have to carry the unit, the recording cord, a preamp and the mic, a lot of connections and boxes, and you don't get recording level adjustment or readout.

Q: Can you add track marks during recording?

Here are some links for preamps:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/...tem/SP-PREAMP-8

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmsterpreamh.htm

I haven't used either one but products from both companies have been reliable.

No trackmarks during recording, you have to hit pause and play to start a new track.

Yes it is clunkyish, all just about fits into those sony walkman grey mini pouch things you get. In there I have the usb cable, mic/cable, recording cable with coupler attached and bat module.

No adjustment or readout which yeah sucks, but these days im pretty good at my mic placement so just hit record and dump it and dont come back till 8hrs when the MD needs changing. And yeah shame you cant replace battery, I wont be recording for more than 11hrs at a time (@256K) so hopefully I will be fine.

Shame they havn't said the recording time battery life, im guessing 15hrs?

As for your pre-amps, yeah but I dont want yet another box to stick in the bag, is there such a thing as a bat module/pre-amp all in one? Until i've sorted this problem i'm just gonna have to normalize recordings.

AC adapter, just looked at the accessorie thread on atraclife once more and yes they do have an ac adapter on a cradel coming out.

<------>

This is important, looks like their might be potential to put tracks onto the player without use of SS, if you drag drop some files into the recording folder and edit the dat files accordingly im betting the player will play them. had a quick go but no go just yet.

There are 3rd party AC USB chargers, and even battery packs that will charge USB so thats not really a major problem. Any powered hub would work aswell. My TFT has one built in and it will charge USB devices even when the PC is off.

A bigger issue, and perhaps this is what you meant. If you are recording and your battery runs low, you can't swap the battery, or run off AC?

No you cant, power comes through wm-port so no recording and charging at same time.

[Sparky191]

....

No you cant, power comes through wm-port so no recording and charging at same time.

Thats the killer blow right there. What happens if you run out of juice mid session? HiMD still is better than that.

[mandeepi]

Thats the killer blow right there. What happens if you run out of juice mid session? HiMD still is better than that.

Eh?

I'm sorry but can anyone think of a scenario where you'd want to record for longer than 12hrs straight? - i.e. beat my recording time?

[Richard]

* Moved to Off-Topic section

[A440]

is there such a thing as a bat module/pre-amp all in one?

SoundPros preamps, and probably the Mic Madness ones too, also work as battery modules--that is, when you don't actually need to boost the gain, they still send power to the mics. But they're about the size of an MD recorder.

When I'm recording through Line-in on my Hi-MD unit, mostly I just go mic-battery module-Line-in. A preamp might be unnecessary if you're dealing with amplified music, and the battery module is small. At least I hope that the Line-in input on your unit expects the same kind of signal as Line-in on the Hi-MD.

[Sparky191]

Eh?

I'm sorry but can anyone think of a scenario where you'd want to record for longer than 12hrs straight? - i.e. beat my recording time?

Easily. The scenario when want to record something but realise you haven't charged your recorder recently. Another one is when you won't be near a AC outlet long enough, or regular enough to keep your unit charged. You might be in the field, or travelling, any number of reasons.

I often use my HiMD for recording business meetings and lecturers. Quite often I simply wouldn't get the chance to charge it, its just easier to grab a AA than have the hassle of keeping it charged.

Edited November 27, 2006 by Sparky191

[mandeepi]

SoundPros preamps, and probably the Mic Madness ones too, also work as battery modules--that is, when you don't actually need to boost the gain, they still send power to the mics. But they're about the size of an MD recorder.

When I'm recording through Line-in on my Hi-MD unit, mostly I just go mic-battery module-Line-in. A preamp might be unnecessary if you're dealing with amplified music, and the battery module is small. At least I hope that the Line-in input on your unit expects the same kind of signal as Line-in on the Hi-MD.

These jokers need to stop playing musical topics with this thread....

Has this dicussion with sound pro and micmad guys quite some time when i was researching this in the first place. They said that the bat module with mic should power the mic and bring the signal high enough. Which is true, but NOT to line level hence the need for a pre-amp.

They both stated they dont have a pre-amp / bat module all in one. like with the s700 i find line-in mic/bat mod is quite, on my hi-md i always use mic/batmod into the mic-in and its purrrrrrfect. But like i said before s700 line in is far to quiet, you will either need preamp or normalize the audio once you upload it.

If you ever hear of a preamp bat module all in one let me know

Easily. The scenario when want to record something but realise you haven't charged your recorder recently. Another one is when you won't be near a AC outlet long enough, or regular enough to keep your unit charged. You might be in the field, or travelling, any number of reasons.

I often use my HiMD for recording business meetings and lecturers. Quite often I simply wouldn't get the chance to charge it, its just easier to grab a AA than have the hassle of keeping it charged.

I guess your screwed then....

[A440]

They both stated they dont have a pre-amp / bat module all in one.

Those SoundPro guys ought to read their own listings. From the SP-PREAMP

# Built-in 9 volt "plug-in-power" at mic input jack - no additional battery module needed to power your mini microphones!

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/.../item/SP-PREAMP

----------------

Maybe your mic is less sensitive than mine. But going through Line-in, I very rarely have to normalize. Once I accidentally recorded a conversation without switching to mic-in, and I could hear that pretty well too.

[mandeepi]

Those SoundPro guys ought to read their own listings. From the SP-PREAMP

# Built-in 9 volt "plug-in-power" at mic input jack - no additional battery module needed to power your mini microphones!

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/.../item/SP-PREAMP

----------------

Maybe your mic is less sensitive than mine. But going through Line-in, I very rarely have to normalize. Once I accidentally recorded a conversation without switching to mic-in, and I could hear that pretty well too.

Hmmm, could be right, here is my mic and bat module...

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmbinstermic.htm

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmcbmminminc.htm

An example of my recordings would be: http://akj.org/multimedia/Australia/2005/2...0ausa021wed.mp3

Prob dont mean much to you but its a significant nice for us, just mean to demonstrate the type of recording i do and sound quality i get/expect.

May take you up on that suggestion and replace that bat module i have with the one you suggested. Thing is i really dont want to fiddle with levels and stuff. I just want to plug it in and get a loud input vol, any suggestions with regards to automatic?

Also check out this store, these are incredibly cheap compared to MM and SP, and they are also very good, although you might not think so.

http://stores.ebay.com/MICROSOUND-INC

[Sparda]

The thing that makes the Sxxx series attractive are the unique features that MD doesn't have. I intend to get one, but don't intend to use it as a Hi-MD replacement. Also how is the sound quality of the recordings, aside from the volume? MiniDisc forever...

[garcou]

Since himd doesn't have any upload/dowload DRM anymore (SS 3.4 and above is drag and drop -like), and 7H55 256kbps hisp for live recording (for studio quality recording, you have 94 min PCM) is more than enough + the benefits of a removable media you can give/exchange (and play on real HIFI -Onkyo!- decks) , I don't see the necessity for a "himd replacement"...

[A440]

Hmmm, could be right, here is my mic and bat module...

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmcbmminminc.htm

i really dont want to fiddle with levels and stuff. I just want to plug it in and get a loud input vol, any suggestions with regards to automatic?

http://stores.ebay.com/MICROSOUND-INC

I use the same battery module, though not the same mics, through line-in my MD and I don't have volume problems.

Automatic may be why you're having problems with your levels. Sometimes the automatic hears something loud and then turns the volume way down low and leaves it there. Do you have a manual setting? You just need to set it once, put it on hold and let it roll. On MD, I find that 20/30 is pretty good for nearly all amplified music. No idea what the equivalent is on the flash recorder.

The Microsounds look like the use the same basic Panasonic capsules. Big shiny clips don't look too stealthy, though--maybe you could replace them Those 2-headed things won't work at concerts, maybe for interviews.

Edited December 3, 2006 by A440

[mandeepi]

The thing that makes the Sxxx series attractive are the unique features that MD doesn't have. I intend to get one, but don't intend to use it as a Hi-MD replacement. Also how is the sound quality of the recordings, aside from the volume? MiniDisc forever...

well until i get a preamp for the mic i cant truly tell.

anyway took like 3hrs for sound forge to normalize just over 2hrs recording to a high level and it sounded just like it would off md.

just need to find a cheap small preamp, i aint paying 80 quid for a tiny box from the states.

[Sparky191]

Since himd doesn't have any upload/dowload DRM anymore (SS 3.4 and above is drag and drop -like), and 7H55 256kbps hisp for live recording (for studio quality recording, you have 94 min PCM) is more than enough + the benefits of a removable media you can give/exchange (and play on real HIFI -Onkyo!- decks) , I don't see the necessity for a "himd replacement"...

Faster transfers would be nice, as would more capacity, not just for recording but for playback and data storage.