Is this the minidisc killer?

[King Ghidora]

Mixers are great but multitracks are better IMO. You have to get the mix just right when you record with a mixer. There's no opportunity to fiddle with the knobs (digital tracks actually) when you get home and load it on the computer. Plus you can easily add more tracks later too. You can be a one man band if you want to. It's possible to do this with a computer but not nearly as easy as a multitrack field recorder.

Balancing different instruments is hard enough when you can try it over and over until you get it right. Trying to do it on the fly and get it just right is much tougher. I'm not saying that mixers have no purpose. They surely do. but trying to essentially master music on the fly is tough to do unless you are familar with exactly what to expect from a band. If you're trying to record a band you aren't familar with on the fly you just aren't going to get the best results. You at least have a chance with a mulitple track recorder.

I've always seen mixers as a device that has to be there for live music and a great asset if you only have a two track (stereo) recorder. But given my druthers I would take a multitrack setup 10 to 1 over a mixer. I actually use a stereo recorder to record live music quite often. A good HIMD has it's place in this world. But for serious recording there's nothing like a multi track. If it didn't mean investing in a whole new set of mics I'd be trying to go that direction My main concerns are recording audio for video and the occasionaly stealth recording and having a recorder decent enough to help out the band work on their material. We've been talking about getting a multi-track setup with close micing but we haven't made any moves in that direction yet. Besides it's possible to get a decent recording of a bluegrass band with a single point stereo mic. It just takes some work on instrument placement etc..

[rayzray]

u are making me hungry for a stand alone multi-tracker;; i had a Roland (digital) one,, but it was UN-user-friendly;; sold it to a Laocian (sp) Karoke guy cheap..

i HATE my Sonar in my computer;; i HATE computers;; i hate mouses;; and i hate not touching and feeling real knobs and sliders??!!

give me real bulk and plastic and aluminum anyday..

oh,, i did some back-up recording (keyboard) at a "Bluegrass" recording studio a while back;; but when they wanted me to "Read" the music parts and not "Feel" them;; i ran away back to my Big City.. (and,, everything was in the key of "E";; a nightmare for me on keyboards!!)

Bluegrass always impressed me;; and how they got to fit an Italian mandolin into the scheme of things..

Edited March 25, 2007 by rayzray

[King Ghidora]

The Tascam DP01 , for just plain basic , and easy to use , on the recording end anyway , after , the transfer setup is a bit involved but under 300 for 8 tracks and a 40 gb drive , and the inputs are fairly clean , The Zoom , Preamps are a little noisy , unless you have Hot mics. I think they tried to put too much stuff into it . But for an Idea catcher , Ambient sounds, etc or Loud stuff ( Then you can use the limiter and forget about noise)

The DP01 looks like it has a lot of features for the money but it only records 2 tracks at once. I really need at least 4 simultaneous tracks for the band I'm working with. Using a single point stereo mic is ok for practice sessions but there's some interest in doing some more serious stuff without spending a fortune on a home studio setup. These guys have been down the popular band road and they're past it I guess. They just like to make music now. About 25 years ago they were all over the radio and we're in huge demand to play live but they gave all that up long ago. Anyway now they just want to make some CD's to share with family and friends without spending a lot of cash on it. It could well be that no one will want to cough up the money to do better than what we're doing now. It just isn't a high priority for them or me I guess but a budget level multitrack recorder might be a possibility in the near future depending onw how things go with the band. A former member has recently rejoined the band and the level of interest has been picking up.

Edited March 25, 2007 by King Ghidora

[Strungup]

File deleted

Edited March 26, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[King Ghidora]

Well one other good way , is a USB mixer , Yamaha has one VERY cheap , and then Download Audacity, It will use ( setup in preferences) the USB mixer , and you can record how ever many tracks the mixer makes available, The bigger the mixer , the more tracks. Audacity 1.32 Beta will now record 16 tracks at once , if you have the mixer to do it

I think I will be picking up the DP01 pretty soon though , My computer is just better suited for other stuff , I played last night in Tokyo , Shibuya area , at a club called Cozmos Cafe http://www.cozmoscafe.com

The response was pretty good , here is a sample.

It is a much better way to go to use a USB interface for a computer to record multitracks instead of using a Poratstudio type device. Having everything in one box like you do with a Portastudio is just asking for it I guess. If one thing breaks you scrap the whole system. I have a decent laptop to take with me on the mobile jobs I do but my son has pretty much confiscated it for college. He just finished his last quarter though so maybe I can get it back soon. There are a couple of issues with using a laptop or even a desktop like fan noise but that shouldn't be a big problem with close micing. I've thought many times about going this route but I'd still like the opportunity to do some stealth recording at times so one of the flash based Portastudio type recorders has looked appealaing to me. But I suppose I have the HIMD for that.

One thing I need to think about is whether the guys in the band can pick up on using whatever we get. You know how it is with people who are novices at using computer related stuff. But still overall the best way to go is what you described.

I think I'll probably end up getting a good pre-amp for the near future anyway. We've aleady worked out most of the problems of using a single point stereo mic and it would be a big benefit for all the other recording I do.

Thanks for the help.

[Strungup]

It is a much better way to go to use a USB interface for a computer to record multitracks instead of using a Poratstudio type device. Having everything in one box like you do with a Portastudio is just asking for it I guess. If one thing breaks you scrap the whole system. I have a decent laptop to take with me on the mobile jobs I do but my son has pretty much confiscated it for college. He just finished his last quarter though so maybe I can get it back soon. There are a couple of issues with using a laptop or even a desktop like fan noise but that shouldn't be a big problem with close micing. I've thought many times about going this route but I'd still like the opportunity to do some stealth recording at times so one of the flash based Portastudio type recorders has looked appealaing to me. But I suppose I have the HIMD for that.

One thing I need to think about is whether the guys in the band can pick up on using whatever we get. You know how it is with people who are novices at using computer related stuff. But still overall the best way to go is what you described.

I think I'll probably end up getting a good pre-amp for the near future anyway. We've aleady worked out most of the problems of using a single point stereo mic and it would be a big benefit for all the other recording I do.

Thanks for the help.

That song I posted , they were using the Yamaha 16 channel USB miker I was mentioning , had it running both to a Laptop ( recording to Protools) and the stage setup, Sounded pretty good, They were using small EV monitors and about 150 watts per channel amp ( but they obviously didnt have it cranked up) The mixer was it a booth ( like a desk with a wall around the top) and the Laptop behind that wall as well , you couldnt hear a thing , it was nice.

http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/mw/index.html

A couple of mixers to look at

[King Ghidora]

That song I posted , they were using the Yamaha 16 channel USB miker I was mentioning , had it running both to a Laptop ( recording to Protools) and the stage setup, Sounded pretty good, They were using small EV monitors and about 150 watts per channel amp ( but they obviously didnt have it cranked up) The mixer was it a booth ( like a desk with a wall around the top) and the Laptop behind that wall as well , you couldnt hear a thing , it was nice.

http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/mw/index.html

A couple of mixers to look at

I really want to check out the audio track you have linked but my life has been way too hectic lately. I just got a new satellite system so I should be back on broadband soon. It's been one giant headache getting it up and running so far though. The last time I did this (set up a satellite internet dish) it took about an hour. I'm well into my 2nd week this time. Hopefully I'll be able to download tracks in a hurry sometime soon. Your track is one of the things I look forward to hearig soon. But for now I'm having to work on getting this thing setup and working.

I've always been partial to Yamaha stuff. Every one of my keyboards is a Yamaha plus my guitar is too I guess. It's not the best stuff in the world but it's solid quality and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. One of my keyboards is at least 25 years old and it's just now starting to have some problems (plastic in the keys has deteriorated). IMO that's pretty good for what was a budget synthesiser and it has taken many years of abuse. I learned to play on that keyboard come to think of it

I had not seen that Yamaha was even making such devices as the sound interface for a computer / mixing board. I'll be looking hard at this setup.

[rayzray]

i have TONS of keyboards (a Yamaha too);; i just have no patience for MIDI and USB and computers;; i like realtime recording;; record on 4 to 8 tracks;; down-mix to stereo and burn to CD..

mater of fact;; i lost my patience to "Play" with ANYONE cause no one in this world feels the music like i do;; after all,, i used to perform "Amazing Grace" as a Cha Cha for years and years..

i am sorry i got rid of my Roland portastudio..

i have Sonar 5 but never use it;; i would rather just play into an MD disc and replay that disc and play another part over that onto another disc a few times;; works for me..

i have no one to impress after all these years except "myself" (rayzray)..

so,, there are many ways to "skin a Kat";; at least the Yamaha portastudio has REAL sliders to use;; so you can adjust multiple channels at the same time..

does this other unit do that?? what's the name of it?? (The Minidisc Killer)??

Edited March 26, 2007 by rayzray

[Strungup]

Hey yall , I took that file down (sorry ) I want to figure out how to post it in the album but not for download , just so it streams.

( I knw everyone will figur a way around that) but I would like to get a few songs up just for the MD people not for the general public ( A show of appreciation?) I like the forums , forgive my debating nature , It is just nice that this community does exist to talk about a common interest and not turn it into a political bashing arena , ....To bash a Politician , all you have to do is record them on your MD and play it back later , whatever they say , it will come back to slap them.

I will either post them here or on my website with a locked password link . Once I learn how

[King Ghidora]

Yeah I like that there are no political battles on this board. Many of the audio boards are much more about politics than they are audio. It's hard to sift through the baloney to find anything useful. This board is MUCH better because that doesn't happen here.

[Strungup]

^^ u make it sound a little more "yummier",, but ,, no,, i am sure it's not my "bag"..

i want "re-Mixing" capabilities;; not 4 track;; but next time i go to Guitar Center;; i will waste the salesman's time once again and ask him questions..

never know;; i may "buy it";; the money is burning a hole in my pocket;; i haven't bought a decent bling in zing-time..

RayzRay , you mighta been Da perfect mon but I be about ta Break your ground sir.

I am about to buy a Tascam 2488 , I found one in "Perfect Condition" The owner couldnt figure it out so they dumped it .

I just downloaded the OM , and Firmware update, Application guide , videos etc , I will pick it up tommorrow

TWENTY FOUR TRACKS of DIGITAL BLISS ,

By the way the Last Umpteen zillion Alan parsons engineered albumns as well as his own were done Mostly on Tascam,Senheisser, Combonations

[rayzray]

I am about to buy a Tascam 2488 , ......

TWENTY FOUR TRACKS of DIGITAL BLISS ,

By the way the Last Umpteen zillion Alan parsons engineered albumns as well as his own were done Mostly on Tascam,Senheisser, Combonations

((i bow to the NEW "Perfet Mon"!!))

oh,, i "Googled" your Tascam and it's "Da Bomb" i LOVE it;; i want one!! lol;; if i had one of those;; my wife would NEVER see me until the Arctic Summer.. ??!!

with these specs i could utilize my vast "Sound EFX" collection to my approx 40.000 song library;; i could be in "Re-Mix Heaven" ;; and with the MIDI capabilities;; add my approx 15 keyboard/synths to da project..

((IT EVEN HAS A COAXAL DIGITAL IN!!!!!!)) that was my complaint with the Roland..

(Features & Specs

* 24-track non-compressed recording

* 24-bit, 44.1kHz audio quality

* 36-channel mixer

* 3-band EQ on 24 channels

* 8 inputs and tone generator

* High and low sweepable shelving bands

* Full parametric midband

* 3 aux sends on all input, track, and tone generator channels

* Loop effect for reverb, chorus delay, etc.

* Up to 8 assignable dynamics processors for compression

* 16 assignable guitar multi-effects

* 8 single effects

* 3 mic effects

* Tuner

* Dedicated stereo compressor on stereo output

* 20 - 45mm faders with master fader

* Large LCD display

* CDRW drive

* 64-voice MIDI sound module

* Standard MIDI file player

* High-speed USB 2.0 jack connections

* 4 combo XLR/1/4" mic inputs with phantom power

* 4 - 1/4" TRS line inputs

* 1/4" TS instrument level (guitar) input

* RCA S/PDIF stereo digital input

* 2 - 1/4" TRS control room (monitor) outputs

* 2 RCA stereo outputs

* RCA S/PDIF stereo digital output

* 1/4" TRS headphone output

* 2 - 1/4" effect sends

* 2 - 1/4" footswitch jacks (punch, expression)

* USB 2.0 jack (USB 1.1 compatible)

* MIDI input

* MIDI output

[Strungup]

((i bow to the NEW "Perfet Mon"!!))

oh,, i "Googled" your Tascam and it's "Da Bomb" i LOVE it;; i want one!! lol;; if i had one of those;; my wife would NEVER see me until the Arctic Summer.. ??!!

with these specs i could utilize my vast "Sound EFX" collection to my approx 40.000 song library;; i could be in "Re-Mix Heaven" ;; and with the MIDI capabilities;; add my approx 15 keyboard/synths to da project..

((IT EVEN HAS A COAXAL DIGITAL IN!!!!!!)) that was my complaint with the Roland..

Might improve the sex life , and the 3 Band EQ is FULLY SWEEPAble , fully parametric Mids

Seperate EQ on All channels, as well as a Master EQ

Also I went to the forums on the 2488 and found out how to upgrade the Harddrive , It writes the drive in 28 bit , instead of 32 , so you have a 120 gb limit but 120 Gigs is a 120 Gigs

"24 Track 120 Gig machine available for rent with Engineer " I can just see the ads now WAHHOOOOOOOOO!!!!

[bluecrab]

mater of fact;; i lost my patience to "Play" with ANYONE cause no one in this world feels the music like i do;; after all,, i used to perform "Amazing Grace" as a Cha Cha for years and years..

Amazing Grace as a cha-cha? My friend, you may have exceeded The Marcels' Blue Moon and the incomparable Vito and The Salutations' Unchained Melody! My gawd, is NOTHING sacred? ;-) This could happen ONLY in R'Disland ;-)

(I am north of Boston.) I'm laughing, I am in awe, I wonder about our future ;-)

[rayzray]

Amazing Grace as a cha-cha? My friend, you may have exceeded The Marcels' Blue Moon and the incomparable Vito and The Salutations' Unchained Melody! My gawd, is NOTHING sacred? ;-) This could happen ONLY in R'Disland ;-)

(I am north of Boston.) I'm laughing, I am in awe, I wonder about our future ;-)

cha cha was conservative;;

i once played Amazing Grace as a "Reggae" on a stage with about 1000 ppl in front and also broadcasting to RI and MASS on "Cable TV";;

and got many requests to play it that way again..

North of Boston is "Safe";; "IN" Boston is not;; it took me over 40 years to figure out how to drive and get around in Boston;; mostly under duress..

Love China Town and the neighborhood around Berkley College..

played some wedding all around Boston and north of it to;; but the BIG DIG was just tooooo much for me!!

[reefbeef]

One crucial question is whether the mic preamp is noisy or not.

Can anyone comment on this yet?

[Strungup]

Can anyone comment on this yet?

If you go to the Roland UK site (not the US site) you can download the manual for it and read the specs.

[Strungup]

I have found the 1 thing I did NOT want to find .......A reason to buy an iPod

This will make it hard to convince a Podhead to get an MD

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/italkpro/

[rayzray]

I have found the 1 thing I did NOT want to find .......A reason to buy an iPod

This will make it hard to convince a Podhead to get an MD

http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/italkpro/

mmmm,, i will check it out in Florida at my son-in-law's Apple Store he manages..

[Strungup]

mmmm,, i will check it out in Florida at my son-in-law's Apple Store he manages..

The specs on the input are 16 bit 44.1 khz that is CD

and that sucks because its an iPod . It would actually make an iPod usefull

here is another one http://www.xtrememac.com/audio/earphones_r...romemo_nano_2g/

Edited April 14, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[A440]

The specs on the input are 16 bit 44.1 khz that is CD

and that sucks because its an iPod . It would actually make an iPod usefull

here is another one http://www.xtrememac.com/audio/earphones_r...romemo_nano_2g/

Your iPod antipathy is safe. The Micromemo is basically for...memo recording. Podcasters are probably all just thrilled.

As noted in this post: http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=18303 and the iPod review and comments that it links to:

Mic-in is Mono. A stereo microphone only records the left channel. (Line-in is stereo.)

Fixed gain only: one mic setting, one line setting. No auto gain, no user adjustment.

A full battery runs out after 2 hours (30GB) or 3.5 hours (60 GB).

Track marking, manual levels, etc.? Nope.

And here's yet another one, which does have auto gain, but the bulk of built-in mics, the same battery limits, etc.

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/ipod/revi...pod-with-video/

Just for the stealth aspect--no one suspects an iPod--I'd like to try one with mics and battery module, but I'm not rushing to the Apple store.

Edited April 14, 2007 by A440

[Strungup]

Your iPod antipathy is safe. The Micromemo is basically for...memo recording. Podcasters are probably all just thrilled.

As noted in this post: http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=18303 and the iPod review and comments that it links to:

Mic-in is Mono. A stereo microphone only records the left channel. (Line-in is stereo.)

Fixed gain only: one mic setting, one line setting. No auto gain, no user adjustment.

A full battery runs out after 2 hours (30GB) or 3.5 hours (60 GB).

Track marking, manual levels, etc.? Nope.

And here's yet another one, which does have auto gain, but the bulk of built-in mics, the same battery limits, etc.

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/ipod/revi...pod-with-video/

Just for the stealth aspect--no one suspects an iPod--I'd like to try one with mics and battery module, but I'm not rushing to the Apple store.

comment no 18 was funny

Purchased the Belkin TuneTalk Sterio and would not even think of using the other two. The fact that it is the only one that allows you to supply external power while recording makes it the only clear choice by far. Ipod batteries drain extremely fast when using the recording function. I've had my I pod for 8 months and on a full charge it went completely dead after approximately 30 minutes of recording. So I plugged the usb into a power output in the wall with my adapter and recorded a musician with no further stops. The downfall of the Tunetalk is that the mic is not really all that great. So I use Sony's sterio mic and the recordings sound excellent. No need for a preamp when using the external mic. Just flip the gain switch and it works like a charm. The quality and tone is strikingly similar to what hear on a Bob Dylan record from the late sixties. Great vintage sound! Goodbye minidisc recorder. I now love my Ipod recorder!!

Posted by Songwriter on September 16, 2006 at 5:37 PM (PDT) Comment 16

[Strungup]

Ok ,

Here it is , the Beginning of the end , ( being over dramatic here)

But this takes the cake ,

Everybody for your veiwing displeasure

The Alesis iMix

http://www.alesis.com/product.php?id=113

Edited April 16, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[A440]

How is that going to fit into my pocket?

[Strungup]

How is that going to fit into my pocket?

youll need the iKey for that.......... or Really Baggy Jeans!

http://www.ikey-audio.com/ikeyplus.htm

Edited June 21, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[Strungup]

Ok here it is , this is the technology that is killing the MD and is changing the way people communicate and live

http://www.nseries.com/index.html?CMP=BAC-...ducts,n800,demo

This would be an extremely addictive device ,as that it does everthing to entertain , and inform at the same time .

[boojum]

Here is what I am thinking about if I do not get another RH1: http://www.samsontech.com/products/product...6&brandID=4

This pup does it all, just like a Hi-MD unit, is easy to operate, also records in MP3 for those who wish to and with the 4GB card will run about the same as the RH1, maybe cheaper. I would prefer the SONY. But if SONY is backing away from the platform, I may, too. ;o(

Cheers

[Strungup]

Here is what I am thinking about if I do not get another RH1: http://www.samsontech.com/products/product...6&brandID=4

This pup does it all, just like a Hi-MD unit, is easy to operate, also records in MP3 for those who wish to and with the 4GB card will run about the same as the RH1, maybe cheaper. I would prefer the SONY. But if SONY is backing away from the platform, I may, too. ;o(

Cheers

Beat ya to it Booj , I had my order placed a while back , just waiting for it to come in ( already paid for )

[rayzray]

now that i would buy!! and can use;; maybe wait a bit to see what the competitors come up with;; no rush;; but,, what i great unit!!!!

[bobbyo]

Interesting topic. I'm really new to MD, so I don't yet feel remarkably loyal to the format. Until now I've been using a rather dated player to make some live recordings and aside from having to change tapes midway I am rather pleased. I am, at the moment, trying to decide whether or not I should purchase the nh600 or maybe nh700 (the money I'd save on the nh600 would go directly to purchase a battery module).

Anyway, after reading through this thread I'm still stumped. Is there a good, cost-efficient alternative (at most about the cost of the nh700~120€+shipping) to MD that still records at a decent, comparable bit-rate and won't force me to juggle memory cards in the middle? Thanks for your help.

[A440]

Looks like the H2 is your alternative. With a 4GB card no juggling would be necessary. Hi-MD discs are only 1GB.

Just looking at the H2 page, I have only a few reservations. I really wish it had a track mark button like MD units. It's one of MD's best features.

And two AA batteries for four hours of recording time (probably less). So you're not juggling cards, but if you're at an all-day recording situation like a festival, you're juggling batteries.

For stealth, I'd still want to use an external mic with it. I wouldn't want to be at a concert holding the unit in my hand. The specs page says it takes a "powered" microphone. I don't know if that means no plug-in power at the mic jack--if so, you'd need a battery module.

When you get yours, guitarfxr, please give us all a full report.

[rayzray]

well,, if Guitarfxr just waits a few months;; he can buy that unit CHEAP at his great used electronic store!!

[Strungup]

Looks like the H2 is your alternative. With a 4GB card no juggling would be necessary. Hi-MD discs are only 1GB.

Just looking at the H2 page, I have only a few reservations. I really wish it had a track mark button like MD units. It's one of MD's best features.

And two AA batteries for four hours of recording time (probably less). So you're not juggling cards, but if you're at an all-day recording situation like a festival, you're juggling batteries.

For stealth, I'd still want to use an external mic with it. I wouldn't want to be at a concert holding the unit in my hand. The specs page says it takes a "powered" microphone. I don't know if that means no plug-in power at the mic jack--if so, you'd need a battery module.

When you get yours, guitarfxr, please give us all a full report.

I will , it looks like the end of August if at all , I am still waiting on arrival.

I have a gig monday night and sure could use it .

http://www.cozmoscafe.com/en/shibuya/event...ing%20June%2025

Everyone is invited !!!!

[Strungup]

Man really interesting to go back and read old posts ,......... This one went all over the place didnt it ..

Now I am watching Md's being cleared from Shelves here in Japan ,....... and feel quite sad about it .

Never did play that Cosmos Cafe gig ( Got a very very bad headache that night , couldn't see straight)

Have since sold the 2488 , Came down to a more simple 8 tracks for my own use . Now have an Almost Matched pair of the Sony ECM23F3 condenser's

A lot changes in a year doesnt it .