MDX-400 Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 I've read a lot of reports here and there about Sony DAPs (both flash and HDD based) giving a problem of hiss/white noise at low volumes/silent parts of tracks. So I knew this before I purchased my HD3 and was all ready to hear it and was hoping it wasn't too bad.The HD3 I bought arrived yesterday and I must say I'm fairly impressed with it so far. I've never owned an iPod or any other mass-storage type DAP so I don't know what they are like but the quality of the HD3 has been to my liking so far, both build wise and user-interface wise. I've used different iPods before and I never really liked the interface to tell the truth (though I know most people seem to like it a lot); HD3 seems more simple and straight-forward to me somehow I guess. I got a pink unit and was surprised the backlight was pink as well That was a nice touch. I was initially thinking of doing a custom painting with it to make it blue (a different blue than the Sony HD3 "L") but the pink is actually quite nice and with the pink backlight and all, I'm leaving it as is...Anyway I really listened for this alleged hiss or noise and I can't hear it at all. I've tried with it on headphones and hooked up to my receiver (DA4ES and Athena AS-F2 main speakers); tried in both line-out and headphone out modes and at all kinds of different volumes. Listened between tracks, during quiet portions of tracks, right before it starts playing; as well as with MP3s and ATRAC3plus, all to no avail. I can't hear any hiss or noise at all, and I do know what noise sounds like. I'm quite impressed that I did not hear any noise (as I'd read about this a lot) and I don't really know where it is people are hearing the hiss, but I'm certainly not hearing it on my unit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xispe Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 On my NW-HD5, here is the procedure to hear the hiss:- stop the player- turn the volume all down to the minimum- listen to the headphones (no hiss)- start playing a track- listen to the headphones again (hiss!)The hiss is there when a track is playing, even with the volume in the minimum. If you start raising the volume, you will still hear the background hiss. What happens is when the music is playing, the hiss is masked by the music...I hear the hiss with the stock headphones that came with the NW-HD5 (bad headphones), and with my EX71 headphones (better headphones )I've read some reviews that the NW-HD5 had a signal to noise ratio of 84 db. Someone say that the minimum acceptable is 90 db (lower noise). However these discussions are pretty subjective... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJ_Palmer Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) I dont seem to be get any hissing on my HD5, whatever I try. Edited February 10, 2006 by KJ_Palmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjo Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 I've read some reviews that the NW-HD5 had a signal to noise ratio of 84 db. Someone say that the minimum acceptable is 90 db (lower noise).I notice that the spec for the NW-608 quotes an S/N ratio of 80dB or better. Not great when you compare it to figues published by other manufacturers. Is this signal-to-noise ratio dependent on the bit-rate of the encoding that is being played back? Or is it a limiting factor in the player itself, regardless of encoding bit rate? Does anybody know what the S/N ratio for the NH1 HiMD unit is, for the sake of comparison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDX-400 Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 On my NW-HD5, here is the procedure to hear the hiss:- stop the player- turn the volume all down to the minimum- listen to the headphones (no hiss)- start playing a track- listen to the headphones again (hiss!)The hiss is there when a track is playing, even with the volume in the minimum. If you start raising the volume, you will still hear the background hiss. What happens is when the music is playing, the hiss is masked by the music...I tried this just now, I hear nothing. Honestly absolutely nothing. When I put the volume to minimum as you say I can't hear anything at all--if I unplug the earphones it sounds exactly the same as with them plugged in. If there is a hiss there I cannot detect it; and again I do know what hiss sounds like. It simply is not there on my unit; MP3 or ATRAC3plus. I'm trying with 320k CBR (--alt preset insane) MP3 and 352kbps ATRAC3plus (I refuse to go any lower for my own uses) but I wonder if I tried lower bitrates I'd get the hiss? If it is as bad as you make it out to be (and any hiss really is bad, IMO) then I'm thinking it must be affecting only certain units and not all of them. I hear the hiss with the stock headphones that came with the NW-HD5 (bad headphones), and with my EX71 headphones (better headphones )I don't have many earphones or headphones, admittedly, but I don't hear it on MD stock buds (MDR-E838 and E808) and not with a few others I have. Also no more hiss than normal when I use my DA4ES receiver and turn my volume up pretty good. (There is always hiss from analog inputs even on good receivers; if I put the DA4ES in Analog Direct it is reduced by a large margin, but still with the HD3 connected it is no different than it being not connected at all). Surely I'd detect hiss through one of these means. When I say it is silent, I mean dead silence. I can't hear anything even remotely like hiss. Not only that, I don't even hear digital volume "clicking" (which is almost on all equipment using digital volume control) on the HD3. In my experience, the sound quality is very very good.The reason I bothered to make this post is because I do hear a lot about this alleged hiss noise and at first I thought it was real or perhaps exaggerated but now that I have an HD3 in my hands and cannot hear anything even remotely like hiss, I had to make a thread stating it because (given my experience) it just doesn't sense any make to say these units are plauged by hiss. I don't deny/contest that people are hearing a hiss (because it is marked and there is no reason why anyone would make that up); I'm just saying it clearly is not affecting my unit so I'm nearly certain it can't affect every unit out there.I've read some reviews that the NW-HD5 had a signal to noise ratio of 84 db. Someone say that the minimum acceptable is 90 db (lower noise). However these discussions are pretty subjective...Well actually I think that around 80dB is supposed to be good for the majority of humans. Still it is all dependent on ratings, which are very exaggerated in the mainstream consumer electronics market. However, I notice that Sony makes no rating/claim for the HD3's S/N Ratio, so I'm guessing that is the actual measured S/N? Still 84dB is not bad at all. 90dB or higher is desireable though, for sure. What I don't understand is how some people can complain about S/N ratio and then they use like 128k MP3 or some garbage like that--I'm just thinking "hello?!?". If you're going to use bitrates that low, I think the compression is a little more of an issue than a mediocre S/N ratio...Again though, don't go by ratings. For example if manufacturer B gives a rating of "better than 90dB" don't go for it just because they say so; actual measurements though, it is usually safe to go by (though check what the tolerance was or how it was rated). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xispe Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 ahhaha! my unit or my ears are defective! (I hope its the unit!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascariss Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 No hiss on the A3000 on my end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stuge Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 I don`t hear any hiss while listening Songs on my HD5(except in few few songs ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Get yourself and your gear to a quiet place to try this test. It's more apparent on units that does not employ a "Digital Amp" vs. analog amps (that is, it's more apparent on low end units vs. the typical high end units). However, there are some units, most encountered with CD Walkmen, that reproduces the low level hiss/noise irregardless of the amp used (D-NE520 comes to mind).I think it also matter what headphones you use as well, though I've been able to reproduce this on all of my D-NE units outside D-NE20 (which uses Digital Amp) using all sorts of phones. Of course, I rarely use earbuds, and those buds may do a better job not reproducing said noise... I can also find no noise on my MZ-NH1 and RH910, both of which employ some sort of digial amplification for their headphone jack. Overall, you're not going to find it in normal, noisy listening situations. At night, when you're listening to it in lower volume, you're more likely to notice this however.Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDX-400 Posted February 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Get yourself and your gear to a quiet place to try this test. Overall, you're not going to find it in normal, noisy listening situations. At night, when you're listening to it in lower volume, you're more likely to notice this however.Yeah, I certainly did that, Damage... I wouldn't just go trying to listen for noise with my hairdryer going beside me, LOL.I've tried it in dead silence and in many different ways (as stated above), and honestly I hear absolutely nothing--there is NO noise or hiss whatsoever that is in any way audibly detectible. Believe me, I have honestly tried very hard to reproduce this alleged hiss and can't detect anything (otherwise I'd never have made this thread). The only thing I've yet to try is lower bitrates, which if they do give any noise...a. I really don't care about that because I'll be using those bitrates barely, if ever at all; and,b. If that is the hiss that people are complaining about (that occurs at lower bitrates for some reason) I can't help but say to them "that's what you get for using low bitrates!" LOL. Still, I'm unsure if it will happen then either, but I will try it out soon just to see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xispe Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 The hiss that I ear has nothing to do with bitrates.If the player is playing something, the hiss is there, when the player is stopped there's no hiss.Tested with atrac files, mp3 files various bitrates, raging from the biggest atrac bitrate, 320 kbps mp3, vbr mp3, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 The only thing I've yet to try is lower bitrates, which if they do give any noise...a. I really don't care about that because I'll be using those bitrates barely, if ever at all; and,b. If that is the hiss that people are complaining about (that occurs at lower bitrates for some reason) I can't help but say to them "that's what you get for using low bitrates!" LOL.It may be that you got a lucky unit, or your phones have a hard time detecting this, or your phones are that sensitive enough (certainly could be the case) and/or inefficient enough to pick up the hiss. If that's the case, then probably better off that you not actively look for it.However, it's not low birtrate that causes this, it's the fact that the player is ON and is playing anything back that causes this noise. You might be thinking of low bitrate associated artifacting, which is more of the swirling, swooshing, warbling, and otherwise a fine mess that you hear in the treble areas (especially with cymbals in the drum set). Those are two separate phenomena that low end Sony units are plauged with, though for the low bitrate files, that's more of a function of the CODEC than anything else.Or more to the point, it's there whenever the internal amp is active.Again, the noise phenomenon is prevalent in any units that are not armed with Digital Amps (such as my low end PCDPs) and all Network Walkmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stuge Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Hiss also depends upon the quality of Audio cd .e can reduce the playback noise during ripping through SonicStage .In Tools=>Options =>Cd Importing =>check on cd writing settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobby172 Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Hiss on my HD5 is only there using the stock buds. Regardless of file type and bitrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjo Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Get yourself and your gear to a quiet place to try this test. It's more apparent on units that does not employ a "Digital Amp" vs. analog amps (that is, it's more apparent on low end units vs. the typical high end units). However, there are some units, most encountered with CD Walkmen, that reproduces the low level hiss/noise irregardless of the amp used (D-NE520 comes to mind).I would agree with Damage.I've tried this with my wifes NH-HD3, a NW-A608 and my own NH1. In a quiet environment I can hear a hiss with the HD3 and the 608 but not with the NH1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDX-400 Posted February 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Okay still *NO* hiss whatsoever. I've tried hundreds of different ways now with all kinds of file formats, bitrates, different headphones, amps, speakers, etc., to reproduce this hiss, all to no avail. There just is no hiss on my Sony NW-HD3... Again I don't doubt you guys are hearing it, but it just isn't on mine (pink, serial #0300383) I never hear anything that could be considered the same as what people have described; and just to be 100% sure I always do the volume-to-minimum-play-a-file thing, and then unplug the headphones or the cable going to the amp to see if there is any difference--there never is. I mean it could be I'm losing my hearing but I seriously doubt that my hearing would be so bad as not to hear something like this... I can have other ppl try out my unit and see what they say; but I'm really trying to hard to find something that I no longer think even exists (on my unit at least). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xispe Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 Seems that you are lucky MDX-400 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stuge Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 MDX-400,You are not the only one .I`m also with you .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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