A musician looking for help.

[jakk13]

I am a musician who records hours of music on a regular basis. I have been asking around about what I should used to record for months without getting a good answer. I finally read about the minidisc format, which looks like something that could work for me. I was amazed when I read I could put 45 hours on one disc! Anyway, I need to know what would be the best minidisc recorder to buy? I believe Sony has a new one out for $400. That price is kind of steep for me. I wan't to hook my Yamaha keyboard into a minidisc recorder and also an electric guitar in the future. Should I be able to do what I mentioned? What minidisc recorder do you recommend? Thank You.

[tekdroid]

I am a musician who records hours of music on a regular basis. I have been asking around about what I should used to record for months without getting a good answer.

What do you record with now?

Sony MZ-RH1 is the only Hi-MD model selling new (also known as MZ-M200 when bundled with microphone; same model tho).

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat...product-MZM200/

If size (and slightly higher price) isn't an issue, I'd opt for the (Flash-based) Sony PCM-D50 in a heartbeat.

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat...product-PCMD50/

If second-hand isn't an issue I'd opt for the MZ-NH700 in a heartbeat.

45 hours on one disc is the lowliest quality possible with SonicStagae (PC software). It really doesn't sound the best. 1GB per disc, so don't expect miracles.

[jakk13]

What do you record with now?

Sony MZ-RH1 is the only Hi-MD model selling new (also known as MZ-M200 when bundled with microphone; same model tho).

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat...product-MZM200/

If size (and slightly higher price) isn't an issue, I'd opt for the (Flash-based) Sony PCM-D50 in a heartbeat.

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat...product-PCMD50/

If second-hand isn't an issue I'd opt for the MZ-NH700 in a heartbeat.

45 hours on one disc is the lowliest quality possible with SonicStagae (PC software). It really doesn't sound the best. 1GB per disc, so don't expect miracles.

I am now recording with a $30 Sony cassette recorder that insturments can not be plugged into. What do you mean when you say do not expect miracles? Will the recordings still sound proffesional? Do I need Sonicstage to record for 45 hours? Do all the Sony walkman minidisc recorders offer proffessional recording quality? How many hours can fit into the Sony PCM-D50? Thank You.

Edited November 14, 2008 by jakk13

[KJ_Palmer]

For Hi-MD the 45 hours refers to the maximum amount of extremely highly compressed (ie. low quality) recording that you can squeeze into the 1GB Hi-MD discs. In fact I don't think you can actually record live in this format, only transfer it from a PC. You can record in low quality (64kbps - Hi-LP) for 36 hours, or medium quality (256kbps HiSP) for about 8 hours or CD quality (PCM - equivalent to Wav) for 1 and a half hours.

Meanwhile the PCM-D50 has 4GB of built in memory giving you 6 hours of Wav reording, more if you add flash cards. Uploading to your PC is probably more reliable and certainly quicker with the PCM-D50 as it's drag and drop, whereas Hi-MD has to go through Sonicstage software. As something of a musician myself, I'd probably go for the D50 myself, as it's somewhat more current, though the ultimate quailty obtained on both may be quite similar. Hi-MD is great as a general-purpose recorder and player though.

[THIS SUCKS]

if you want professional quality you can't record in anything lower than 256k hi-sp. the other rates have too low of a bit rate and too hi compression to be anywhere near professional quality,

[tekdroid]

I am now recording with a $30 Sony cassette recorder that insturments can not be plugged into. What do you mean when you say do not expect miracles? Will the recordings still sound proffesional? Do I need Sonicstage to record for 45 hours? Do all the Sony walkman minidisc recorders offer proffessional recording quality? How many hours can fit into the Sony PCM-D50? Thank You.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hi-MD

Have a read through under Main Features of Hi-MD.

Basically, the 45 hour thing is terrible quality. The quality of these devices is excellent; you have the choice of recording in good quality (PCM) right down to Hi-LP on the units themselves. Lower bit-rates (like ungodly amounts of audio on one disc) are achieved with software (ie. cannot be natively recorded on the unit without a computer). PCM sounds the best but uses the most space on the disc. To most ears Hi-SP is close to CD quality, too. I have no doubt you will be pleased with the performance of these devices, especially with good mics (and good headphones; forget the bundled ones).

Keep in mind if you buy the (flash-based) PCM-D50, you get mics integrated.

In any case, Hi-MD will be a massive upgrade from what you are using now.

[Strungup]

I am now recording with a $30 Sony cassette recorder that insturments can not be plugged into. What do you mean when you say do not expect miracles? Will the recordings still sound proffesional? Do I need Sonicstage to record for 45 hours? Do all the Sony walkman minidisc recorders offer proffessional recording quality? How many hours can fit into the Sony PCM-D50? Thank You.

Hey Dude , fellow musician here , what you could do , is get a Used older MD so you dont spend a fortune , to try it out , Get used to using one , before deciding to dip big time into the pocket .

Spending a Little to try something , and find out wether it is cool for you or not , is always less painful

Although and Older Used MD wont give you "Direct Upload " ability , it will be a Much smoother transition between the Cassette deck your using . and the Sound quality of even an older MD will blow you away .

The direct A-B comparison of Cassette to MD , is Night and Day .

even the HiLP 45 hour mode will sound way better than your cassette deck , I still use cassette myself , but I am a little more picky about what deck I record with.

Sony TC-D5M pro ...... jes' a little nicer than a 30 dollar deck eh !

But you can check my Garage Sale here on the forums , there is an R900 that would suit you well .

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?s=&am...st&p=138037

[jakk13]

For Hi-MD the 45 hours refers to the maximum amount of extremely highly compressed (ie. low quality) recording that you can squeeze into the 1GB Hi-MD discs. In fact I don't think you can actually record live in this format, only transfer it from a PC. You can record in low quality (64kbps - Hi-LP) for 36 hours, or medium quality (256kbps HiSP) for about 8 hours or CD quality (PCM - equivalent to Wav) for 1 and a half hours.

Meanwhile the PCM-D50 has 4GB of built in memory giving you 6 hours of Wav reording, more if you add flash cards. Uploading to your PC is probably more reliable and certainly quicker with the PCM-D50 as it's drag and drop, whereas Hi-MD has to go through Sonicstage software. As something of a musician myself, I'd probably go for the D50 myself, as it's somewhat more current, though the ultimate quailty obtained on both may be quite similar. Hi-MD is great as a general-purpose recorder and player though.

Where do I find the hi-sp discs you mentioned and what do they sell for? Is Sonicstage user friendly?

How many hours of music can I put on each one of those flash cards for the PCM-D50? If I wan't to plug a keyboard in is the feature I need to look for called"line in"?

[jakk13]

Hey Dude , fellow musician here , what you could do , is get a Used older MD so you dont spend a fortune , to try it out , Get used to using one , before deciding to dip big time into the pocket .

Spending a Little to try something , and find out wether it is cool for you or not , is always less painful

Although and Older Used MD wont give you "Direct Upload " ability , it will be a Much smoother transition between the Cassette deck your using . and the Sound quality of even an older MD will blow you away .

The direct A-B comparison of Cassette to MD , is Night and Day .

even the HiLP 45 hour mode will sound way better than your cassette deck , I still use cassette myself , but I am a little more picky about what deck I record with.

Sony TC-D5M pro ...... jes' a little nicer than a 30 dollar deck eh !

But you can check my Garage Sale here on the forums , there is an R900 that would suit you well .

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?s=&am...st&p=138037

Hey, lol I can imagine the minidisc is much better than the cassette. You have a good point when you say the 45 minute minidiscs will sound better than cassette. I gotta go high quality to impress people, and I believe I can pull that off with the minidisc format. What newer mini disc recorders are you selling?

[Strungup]

Where do I find the hi-sp discs you mentioned and what do they sell for? Is Sonicstage user friendly?

How many hours of music can I put on each one of those flash cards for the PCM-D50? If I wan't to plug a keyboard in is the feature I need to look for called"line in"?

All Md Recorders Have "Line in " also Mic input

again , My R900 would treat you good . for WAYY less money

The PCM-D50 is on my wish list , but is it really justifiable ??

That is Just keepin up with the Jonses ......... What is it you NEED to do , ........... Archive Ideas , Md works Fine , and doesnt need to take up space on the Hard drive of your PC.

You can Record from ANYWHERE , and Record ANYTHING , LP, Cassette , Mic , Mixing Board , WHATEVER

and you have a Hard copy of what you recorded on a Small convenient disc ( My collection is over 600 at last count) , that will retain what is on it indefinately .

Hard drives crash , ....... along with what is on them .

[A440]

Look, I love my MD for concert recording, but I would not recommend it to a newbie at this late date--especially since jakk13 made it clear he needs to distribute copies with professional sound. Can't do that conveniently with old-school MDs. So anything but Hi-MD is out.

And yes, the RH1 (or a used NH700) would indeed be a possibility, but please, old hands, remember the learning curve on Sonic Stage. Also remember that it's going to be harder to get blank minidiscs and that SonicStage is likely to grow increasingly incompatible with upcoming (per)versions of Windows.

Get a flash recorder. The Edirol R09 and Zoom H2 have good and bad points but are widely used, and there may be some newer ones that offer improvements. Flash units will hold a lot more music (on the same kind of flash cards used by cell phones and digital cameras, easy to find everywhere) and make it easier to transfer. Here's a bunch of them:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/recor...field-recorders

The rule of thumb is about 90 minutes of CD-quality recording (.wav format) per 1GB of memory, or 8 hours of very good (Hi-SP or 256kbps mp3) recording per 1GB.

jakk13, are you planning to do overdubs? Because most of these recorders are made only for live recording to two tracks.

One more possibility, by the way--make your computer your multitrack recorder. Download Audacity (which is free) and if your computer doesn't already have a white line-in jack, get a Griffin iMic (which is not a microphone but a USB connector for Line-In and Mic-in). As long as you've got a good mic, your computer can be your recording studio.

Audacity: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

iMic: http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/imic Note that Griffin is now selling iMic 2, white with one flat side, but the round gray iMic 1 is also fine and you can often find it for under $20 on eBay.

It's the 21st century!!

Edited November 15, 2008 by A440

[jakk13]

Look, I love my MD for concert recording, but I would not recommend it to a newbie at this late date--especially since jakk13 made it clear he needs to distribute copies with professional sound. Can't do that conveniently with old-school MDs. So anything but Hi-MD is out.

And yes, the RH1 (or a used NH700) would indeed be a possibility, but please, old hands, remember the learning curve on Sonic Stage. Also remember that it's going to be harder to get blank minidiscs and that SonicStage is likely to grow increasingly incompatible with upcoming (per)versions of Windows.

Get a flash recorder. The Edirol R09 and Zoom H2 have good and bad points but are widely used, and there may be some newer ones that offer improvements. Flash units will hold a lot more music (on the same kind of flash cards used by cell phones and digital cameras, easy to find everywhere) and make it easier to transfer. Here's a bunch of them:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/recor...field-recorders

The rule of thumb is about 90 minutes of CD-quality recording (.wav format) per 1GB of memory, or 8 hours of very good (Hi-SP or 256kbps mp3) recording per 1GB.

jakk13, are you planning to do overdubs? Because most of these recorders are made only for live recording to two tracks.

One more possibility, by the way--make your computer your multitrack recorder. Download Audacity (which is free) and if your computer doesn't already have a white line-in jack, get a Griffin iMic (which is not a microphone but a USB connector for Line-In and Mic-in). As long as you've got a good mic, your computer can be your recording studio.

Audacity: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

iMic: http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/imic Note that Griffin is now selling iMic 2, white with one flat side, but the round gray iMic 1 is also fine and you can often find it for under $20 on eBay.

It's the 21st century!!

Hey, that was alot of great advice! Thank You for telling me about SonicStage being hard to use. I am going to study the newer recording devices you mentioned. I am not doing overdubs at this time. I am recording piano, synth and drum samples I compose to be sold to music producers. The only fear I have in bringing the flash cards to the pc, is that I will fill my pc up with audio. I have many hours of music saved on cassette so I believe this may happen. Do you have any idea what someone who want's to record live and store many many hours of music should do?

All Md Recorders Have "Line in " also Mic input

again , My R900 would treat you good . for WAYY less money

The PCM-D50 is on my wish list , but is it really justifiable ??

That is Just keepin up with the Jonses ......... What is it you NEED to do , ........... Archive Ideas , Md works Fine , and doesnt need to take up space on the Hard drive of your PC.

You can Record from ANYWHERE , and Record ANYTHING , LP, Cassette , Mic , Mixing Board , WHATEVER

and you have a Hard copy of what you recorded on a Small convenient disc ( My collection is over 600 at last count) , that will retain what is on it indefinately .

Hard drives crash , ....... along with what is on them .

Sorry, but I am going to look into one of the newer devices. I hope you sell what you are trying to sell! I know in Japan minidiscs have a bigger following than in America and Europe.

Edited November 16, 2008 by jakk13

[A440]

SonicStage isn't that hard, but it's not drag-and-drop, and there's always a possibility that things will go wrong. Drag-and-drop is just better.

Storage should not be a problem. Doesn't your computer have a CD or DVD burner? Storage doesn't get much cheaper than a 20-cent CD or a 50-cent DVD. You can also buy a 250GB hard drive for about $100 (Western Electric Passport, for instance), or even a 320GB drive for a little more, though for ultimate reliability I think you'd be better off burning copies onto discs.

Don't try to save money by getting cheap off-brand or store-brand discs. Get Sony or TDK or a brand name you recognize. No-name discs can flake off and become useless, as I discovered with a few very precious recordings. Wait until your local Staples is selling a good brand ultra-cheap, and stock up. Just label them when you burn them, so you can find stuff later.

Hey, that was alot of great advice! Thank You for telling me about SonicStage being hard to use.

[jakk13]

Sounds good to me. I'm proably going to buy edirol ro-9.

[Syrius]

Before you buy that expensive unit, take a look. Even the humblest Hi-MD recorder can do all this, provided it has the right inputs:

[Ral-Clan]

Judging from the tone (of the initial poster's questions) it sounds like you are fairly new to digital recording technology. Things can be confusing and exciting at this stage, since you are presented with so much info. Take a deep breath, learn as much as you can, and don't do any impulse buying.

An older used non-HiMD minidisc recorder can be had for about $50 and would probably do you just fine. However, there are certain quirks you'd have to deal with (like doing analogue real-time transfers to PC if you want to backup or burn the audio to a CD). Also remember, minidisc is almost an obsolete format. Now, if that doesn't bother you (it doesn't bother me) then there are some great deals to be had. Seeing as you've only worked with cassette previously, even a old MD recorder is going to seem like a big improvement for very little money. The sound quality of SP mode is really great - I have used recordings made in this mode to create commercial CDs - no one has ever complained or even suspected they were recorded in a compressed audio format.

But, if you can afford to spend more more I would definitely suggest you go with one of the newer Flash memory devices (like the ones mentioned above). Just plain less of a hassle to connect to a computer and transfer audio to your PC.

I think you should seriously consider looking at the BOSS MICRO-BR. First of all, it's cheaper than the two flash recorders recommended above, but offers much more:

- small

- records to standard flash media (1GB max)

- can act as a standard 2-track stereo recorder (1/4" line-in, mic-in, or built-in stereo condensor mic)

- also acts as a four track digital multitracker (a pocket recording studio)

- built in effects, compression, drum-machine and guitar amp simulator.

- mix down to .wav or mp3 format.

- plays mp3s (just like a walkman type player)

- connects to a PC via USB

It's really a complete basic recording studio in a pocket sized device. You could record a whole album with it, burn it to CD and voila!

...and more. Seriously. Look it up. I think the only disadvantage is the battery life (maybe 3 or 4 hours). But it can also be operated from a standard wall outlet.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Ral-Clan

[KJ_Palmer]

Indeed, I also have the Boss Micro-BR. Fantastic recording quality and features, truly a portable studio. Takes a while to get used to, and the buttons are a bit fiddly, but well worth the effort. I still use an MD for practice purposes though..

[Ral-Clan]

One more suggestion, since you said you are mainly recording loops played on a synthesizer, drum machine & other electronic instruments (which I assume means you have a small home studio setup):

Do you really need a portable recording device? You do know that the PC you already own can act as a full-fledged digital audio recorder, don't you?

As someone above said, just plug your instruments (or the output of your mixer) into the line-in of your computer's sound card and record the audio to the hard drive (using a free program like Audacity). Then burn the resulting audio files to CD.

Even a basic Soundblaster card or the built in soundcard on your computer's motherboard will provide you with much better audio quality than you are currently used to with cassette - if used carefully (i.e. high signal to noise ratio coming out of your mixer) you can get results that are, for most purposes, "professional".

[Syrius]

Judging from the tone of your questions it sounds like you are fairly new to digital recording technology. Things can be confusing and exciting at this stage, since you are presented with so much info. Take a deep breath, learn as much as you can, and don't do any impulse buying.

Um... what questions?

Edited November 19, 2008 by Syrius

[Ral-Clan]

Um... what questions?

Sorry, I have no idea how your quote got in my message. I was, of course, talking to the original poster.

[jakk13]

One more suggestion, since you said you are mainly recording loops played on a synthesizer, drum machine & other electronic instruments (which I assume means you have a small home studio setup):

Do you really need a portable recording device? You do know that the PC you already own can act as a full-fledged digital audio recorder, don't you?

As someone above said, just plug your instruments (or the output of your mixer) into the line-in of your computer's sound card and record the audio to the hard drive (using a free program like Audacity). Then burn the resulting audio files to CD.

Even a basic Soundblaster card or the built in soundcard on your computer's motherboard will provide you with much better audio quality than you are currently used to with cassette - if used carefully (i.e. high signal to noise ratio coming out of your mixer) you can get results that are, for most purposes, "professional".

Hey, I appreciate you response and everyone elses. I am now considering skipping the portable thing so I can record with audacity then burn to cd. I plugged my keyboard today into the pc and it recorded fine with the audacity software. My fear is that I am going to fill this computer up with many hours of music . I am used to recording on cassette where when the tape stops it is done. My computer says I have 48.1 GB free space and 7.68 GB used space. It sounds like I have alot of free space. I wan't to have peace of mind when the recorder is on and I am playing. What is the best way to delete the audio files I make after I burn them to cd?

[tekdroid]

What is the best way to delete the audio files I make after I burn them to cd?

A DVD holds approximately 6 times as much data as a CD. I would burn standard wavs to CD, or better yet, convert the WAVs to FLAC before burning. This will save space and you will be able to tag what you recorded in a more detailed fashion, all the while losing zero quality from the original WAV file. If you are handing out CDs to clients and it expect it to be playable on any CD player, only then make CDs, in my opinion.

http://flac.sourceforge.net

[Ral-Clan]

My fear is that I am going to fill this computer up with many hours of music . I am used to recording on cassette where when the tape stops it is done. My computer says I have 48.1 GB free space and 7.68 GB used space. It sounds like I have alot of free space. I wan't to have peace of mind when the recorder is on and I am playing.

I wouldn't worry. 48GB of free space is more than TWO DAYS worth of continuous, non-stop uncompressed CD quality audio (can you play that long without stopping?). Much more if you use a compressed audio format (and since you were going to use Minidisc before, I sense you have no problems with compressed audio formats). If you save from Audacity (or convert later) to a high quality MP3 (i.e. 256Kbps or higher) then you will probably be able to get a week's worth of non-stop audio on there. Or, just buy an external USB drive to store more audio. Besides, after you hard drive gets half full, just burn the stuff to DVDs or CD-Rs. You shouldn't keep everything on your hard drive anyway, just in it breaks down one day.

What is the best way to delete the audio files I make after I burn them to cd?

Um....go to the folder where you saved the file and drag it into your trash/recycle bin? Occassionally right click on the recycle bin and choose EMPTY RECYCLE BIN.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Ral-Clan

[jakk13]

I wouldn't worry. 48GB of free space is more than TWO DAYS worth of continuous, non-stop uncompressed CD quality audio (can you play that long without stopping?). Much more if you use a compressed audio format (and since you were going to use Minidisc before, I sense you have no problems with compressed audio formats). If you save from Audacity (or convert later) to a high quality MP3 (i.e. 256Kbps or higher) then you will probably be able to get a week's worth of non-stop audio on there. Or, just buy an external USB drive to store more audio. Besides, after you hard drive gets half full, just burn the stuff to DVDs or CD-Rs. You shouldn't keep everything on your hard drive anyway, just in it breaks down one day.

Um....go to the folder where you saved the file and drag it into your trash/recycle bin? Occassionally right click on the recycle bin and choose EMPTY RECYCLE BIN.

Hey, I am not tech savy at all so thank you for telling this lol. Being a musician with talent is more important than being a musician who is tech savy lol. Anyway, I will look into the external usb drive you mentioned. Are they kind of like those flash cards other people brought up?

I was always told when you delete something it is really not gone. Which is why I ask about deleteing.

[Ral-Clan]

Hey, I am not tech savy at all so thank you for telling this lol. Being a musician with talent is more important than being a musician who is tech savy lol. Anyway, I will look into the external usb drive you mentioned. Are they kind of like those flash cards other people brought up?

I was always told when you delete something it is really not gone. Which is why I ask about deleteing.

The external USB flash devices are similar. But a real USB hard drive is just that. An external hard drive in a plastic case with a wire that connects to your computer's USB port. They are much larger in capacity than a USB flash drive. But that said, you can get 8GB USB flash drives (those little ones that hang on your keychain) and that would be enough to hold about 10 hours of stereo audio at full CD quality.

As for things in your recycle bin not really being gone. In terms of freeing up space on your hard drive, yes it is gone. Especially if you empty your recycling box. Technically speaking, a "shadow" of your file is still on your hard drive, and can be "undeleted" in future, unless you write something new over the space were it once was.

Really, the matter of things not really being deleted is only of concern from a security standpoint. In terms of freeing up space, then yes, anything in placed in your recycle bin is gone.