I'm totally ignorant and need advice on what to buy please.

[hygienist53]

Hi, I'd really appreciate any advice please.

My son wants a mini disc recorder/player for his birthday present; it must take a microphone, which he wants as well.

He works as one of the entertainment team in Spain, for a British holiday company.

I've been researching it all day and completely baffled.

There's a Sharp MT280E coming up on Ebay in a couple of days. Any good? Should I buy new rather than 2nd hand? Though that is not available any more, there are other models places like Amazon, who has these:Sharp MDMT88 Minidisc and Sharp MDMT270HBK Portable MiniDisk Recorder with MDLP Mode and Long Playback & Recording Time by Sharp.

I read somewhere that Sharp can be used anywhere but Sony only works in the country it is bought - presumably he can use an adapter? He has his ipod, laptop and mobile phone so presumably any mini disc player will work too?

There are many Sonys, and if you say they'd be better, then which one? The best one seems to be this: Sony Hi-MD with Self-Recording, USB (MZ-RH1), but it's £185, and it's more than we want to pay; on the other hand, there's no point in getting him something cheaper if he won't be happy with it.

He really only needs it for stage work, and he says he wants to play the company's discs plus record stuff he downloads from the computer, and also live on stage.

Also, it appears there are different types of discs, and I don't know which sort his company uses, so does one of these play all types?

I went into a Sony shop this morning; they sell the player for £250, (but out of stock), and the discs were 2 for £15, but Ebay sells them for around 50p each. Is it the same size/thing? If the cheap ones are just not rerecordable, it seems like a good deal as they're so cheap and he'll probably want to keep them anyway, but perhaps it's a different thing altogether.

Also, what microphone? Haven't really started investigating but Amazon has this at £46: Sony Microphone and a cheaper one at £20:Sony Vocal hand-held microphone - can I be cheap? Is there another one I should get? There's another, neater one at £37 which plugs into the Sony recorder without a lead, but I'd imagine that wouldn't look so good if he's interviewing or talking on stage (though I don't actually know what he wants to record and will have to try to speak to him) Sony ECM-DS70P Microphone - Stereo Plugin Power - Key. This is a link to the page at Amazon

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_?u...p;x=12&y=17

I have no idea what I'm talking about and have never seen a machine, but do hope you can understand my needs and can offer advice please.

Many, many thanks

IV

[Hungerdunger]

I'm probably not the best person to ask, but as no one else has answered yet here are a couple of comments:

First of all, you should be aware that MiniDisc is a dying format, in that the only machine still being produced is the MZ-RH1. Having said that, many of us will keep using them for years to come and there should be plenty of second hand machines around for a while.

Trying to keep things simple, there was the basic MiniDisc recorder. With this you can record 80 minutes onto an 80 minute disc. Then later models (like the Sharps you mention) had a long-play facility so that you could record 160 minutes at LP2 or 320 minutes at LP4, sacrificing a certain amount of quality. More recently Sony launched Hi-MD. These machines could not only record and playback in the previous formats mentioned but could also use new technology to "squeeze" more recording time onto the 80 minute discs, and could also utilise new Hi-MD discs which have far more capacity than the previous ones.

The non-HiMD machines cannot play Hi-MD disks, so if that is what the Company uses, he would need a Hi-MD machine. The only Hi-MD portables were made by Sony and can be recognised by an "H" in the model name, e.g. MZ-RH1. As a general rule you will pay more for these than the older models.

When looking for discs, if you choose not to buy a Hi-MD recorder, then you must not buy Hi-MD discs. Stick with the original type of discs which generally are available in 74 and 80 minute capacities. If you buy a Hi-MD machine, you can use any type of disc.

Your son will be able to record live stage shows on most models. However, if he wants to transfer these recordings to his computer, then I think I'm right in saying that the MZ-RH1 is the only one which will do it in faster-than-real-time via the USB connection. With other units he will need to make the recording on the computer by playing back the MD recording, so a 60 minute recording would take 60 minutes to transfer onto the computer.

I would be very wary about the Sharp MDMT88 and 270 advertised on Amazon. If you look at the seller's feedback, one of the comments is: "PDA was advertised as 'new' but arrived in a very 'used' state. Packaging was damaged and all seals broken. Product appears to have been used previously." These are relatively old machines, so I doubt whether they are completely unused.

For what it's worth, if you think your son is going to use the machine regularly, and if you can stretch your budget to buy the RH1 I would say that you should do this as you will get a new machine with much more flexibility than the older machines. If, however you think it may be a passing fancy, then go for a second-hand machine so he can give it a try. Even then, if you can find a second-hand Hi-MD machine I would go for it over older models. Currently there is an MZ-NH1 being sold on ebay here

Finally, now you've found these forums, you might find other pages on the web site useful, such as the equipment browser.

Microphones: I know very little, so you'll have to wait for someone else.

[sfbp]

Just to add: (and I sent you a PM too) ALL HiMD units can upload recordings made by Mic or Line in, as long as they are made in HiMD format.

So not essential to get RH1 unless you want to get into "legacy" (ie SP) recorded formats which are used by older models and all decks (essentially).

[hygienist53]

I'm probably not the best person to ask, but as no one else has answered yet here are a couple of comments:

First of all, you should be aware that MiniDisc is a dying format, in that the only machine still being produced is the MZ-RH1. Having said that, many of us will keep using them for years to come and there should be plenty of second hand machines around for a while.

Trying to keep things simple, there was the basic MiniDisc recorder. With this you can record 80 minutes onto an 80 minute disc. Then later models (like the Sharps you mention) had a long-play facility so that you could record 160 minutes at LP2 or 320 minutes at LP4, sacrificing a certain amount of quality. More recently Sony launched Hi-MD. These machines could not only record and playback in the previous formats mentioned but could also use new technology to "squeeze" more recording time onto the 80 minute discs, and could also utilise new Hi-MD discs which have far more capacity than the previous ones.

The non-HiMD machines cannot play Hi-MD disks, so if that is what the Company uses, he would need a Hi-MD machine. The only Hi-MD portables were made by Sony and can be recognised by an "H" in the model name, e.g. MZ-RH1. As a general rule you will pay more for these than the older models.

When looking for discs, if you choose not to buy a Hi-MD recorder, then you must not buy Hi-MD discs. Stick with the original type of discs which generally are available in 74 and 80 minute capacities. If you buy a Hi-MD machine, you can use any type of disc.

Your son will be able to record live stage shows on most models. However, if he wants to transfer these recordings to his computer, then I think I'm right in saying that the MZ-RH1 is the only one which will do it in faster-than-real-time via the USB connection. With other units he will need to make the recording on the computer by playing back the MD recording, so a 60 minute recording would take 60 minutes to transfer onto the computer.

I would be very wary about the Sharp MDMT88 and 270 advertised on Amazon. If you look at the seller's feedback, one of the comments is: "PDA was advertised as 'new' but arrived in a very 'used' state. Packaging was damaged and all seals broken. Product appears to have been used previously." These are relatively old machines, so I doubt whether they are completely unused.

For what it's worth, if you think your son is going to use the machine regularly, and if you can stretch your budget to buy the RH1 I would say that you should do this as you will get a new machine with much more flexibility than the older machines. If, however you think it may be a passing fancy, then go for a second-hand machine so he can give it a try. Even then, if you can find a second-hand Hi-MD machine I would go for it over older models. Currently there is an MZ-NH1 being sold on ebay here

Finally, now you've found these forums, you might find other pages on the web site useful, such as the equipment browser.

Microphones: I know very little, so you'll have to wait for someone else.

Gosh, Hungerdunger,

That is incredibly helpful.

I was getting desperate.

I'd been reading through old posts here and couldn't understand the jargon at all.

I'm grateful for the simple explanation and have an idea of what you're talking about now.

Thank you so much for your time and trouble.

I'm aware of the Sharp/Amazon seller and have found this model cheaper, elsewhere but didn't want to publicise it in case it stirred up competition...though I expect people might have an idea where to find it.

I have a much better idea what to look for now and will go back to my research with a more knowledgable eye.

If you or anyone else has, anything else to add, especially about the mic, I'd appreciate it.

Cheers

IV

Just to add: (and I sent you a PM too) ALL HiMD units can upload recordings made by Mic or Line in, as long as they are made in HiMD format.

So not essential to get RH1 unless you want to get into "legacy" (ie SP) recorded formats which are used by older models and all decks (essentially).

Thanks for all the advice, Stephen.

I thought I was beginning to understand it but you have totally baffled me with this post.

I will private message you again, to double-check that your recommendation is suitable.

Thanks to you all for your time and effort - it's another world and I realise I'm a very ancient ignorant MD Virgin

Cheers

IV

[hygienist53]

Just to add: (and I sent you a PM too) ALL HiMD units can upload recordings made by Mic or Line in, as long as they are made in HiMD format.

So not essential to get RH1 unless you want to get into "legacy" (ie SP) recorded formats which are used by older models and all decks (essentially).

Thanks, Stephen but I'm afraid that's gobbledegook to me.

I don't know which minidiscs he uses, and I'm not sure he knows there are more than one type.

Trouble is, he has no internet connection and works all hours, and I don't know when it's a good time to ring him, so I have to wait till he goes to an internet cafe to pick up his messages once a week - and he hasn't time to research it himself or get back to me with responses.

I've replied (twice) to your private message, and thanks again.

Other advice still welcome if anyone can be bothered with a grateful old fart like me....look on it as your bit of charity work during this season of good will!

Cheers

IV

[hygienist53]

Just to confirm, please:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=230316596554

This one , for example, had looked good to me and I had been planning of bidding on it, but it doesn't have an H and may not be suitable as it doesn't play the new discs(?) so I shall delete it.

Your advice came at the right time and I'm very grateful.

Cheers

IV

[Hungerdunger]

Just to confirm, please:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=230316596554

This one , for example, had looked good to me and I had been planning of bidding on it, but it doesn't have an H and may not be suitable as it doesn't play the new discs(?) so I shall delete it.

Well, you've got another six days until the auction ends, by which time maybe you'll have found out whether you need a machine which plays Hi-MD discs. The N1 was a good machine when it was launched - if you have too much time on your hands you can read a very detailed review of it here.

If your son is able to check what type of discs the Company uses, tell him that if they are not Sony discs they are NOT Hi-MD. If they are Sony discs but do not have "Hi-MD 1GB" on the front of the disc they are NOT Hi-MD, in which case the N1 will be able to play them.

Incidentally, if you decide to go for the N1, don't install the OpenMG software which was rubbish to say the least. Come back here for advice on where to download its successor SonicStage.

[hygienist53]

Well, you've got another six days until the auction ends, by which time maybe you'll have found out whether you need a machine which plays Hi-MD discs. The N1 was a good machine when it was launched - if you have too much time on your hands you can read a very detailed review of it here.

If your son is able to check what type of discs the Company uses, tell him that if they are not Sony discs they are NOT Hi-MD. If they are Sony discs but do not have "Hi-MD 1GB" on the front of the disc they are NOT Hi-MD, in which case the N1 will be able to play them.

Incidentally, if you decide to go for the N1, don't install the OpenMG software which was rubbish to say the least. Come back here for advice on where to download its successor SonicStage.

Blimey that information really is detailed - a wonderful link, thanks, but my brain switched off during the first paragraph I'm afraid.

Thanks again, Hungerdunger, but, provided I have understood you correctly, as it's difficult to find out what discs he uses, I shall stick with your advice and get a Sony one with an "H" to keep his options open.

Cheers

IV

[smteacsmo]

If your son intends to use the unit for his job, I would certainly recommend an Hi-MD unit, such as the MZ-RH1 (some are already available second-hand), because:

- it is able to connect to a PC via USB, with no restriction on uploading / downloading (many (almost all) earlier models from Sony, such as the Net-MD models, had absurd restrictions on the data transfer)

- the 1 GB capacity of Hi-MD discs allows up to 1 hour recording without any compression (i.e. for professional recordings)

- it can read and record all MD's (72/80 minute format (the original MD) up to Hi-MD

- also it can read from Sony data format (as all other models), but also the MP3 format

As for the microphones, they can range literally from the equivalent of a Nissan Micra to a Ferrari.

One of the cheapest models is the Sony ECM-DS70P (look on ebay, some come from China at absurdly low prices). One that has received generally good ratings for a reasonable cost is the SONY ECM-MS907.

I hope this helps,

[A440]

The important thing is to ask your son what he is using the unit for.

Is he playing back minidiscs that are already recorded? At this point the only reason to buy a minidisc unit is because you are already tied to the format.

If he does need to use minidisc because the other company members are also using it, then Hungerdunger's advice is spot on with a few additions.

There are basically two Hi-MD units worth considering: the MZ-RH1 and the MZ-NH700. Both have the same recording capabilities, and both will upload their own recordings to a computer. The expensive difference is that the MZ-RH1 wlll also upload recordings that were made on the older, now obsolete plain MD recorders.

So for people like us diehards here, who could never do direct uploads from the old discs and have lots of recordings lying around, the MZ-RH1 is a magnificent thing. But if your son does not specifically need to upload recordings made on old MD recorders, you can save £50 or so, assuming you can find the MZ-NH700--they do still pop up.

One good thing about the MZ-NH700 is that it takes a regular AA battery, so you can always find a spare. The MZ-RH1 stays slim by using its own rechargeable battery, so you would have to buy a spare and keep it charged so you'd have it when doing lengthy recordings.

If you looked at the equipment browser link in an earlier post, you also saw other Hi-MD models. The whole list of Hi-MDs is here but you can ignore most of them. Conceivably, if you found it for a steal and trusted the seller, the MZ-RH910 will also do the job, but the MZ-NH700 is cheaper (usually) and better.

Now into the jungle: microphones.

What is he recording? Speech? Live theater (amplified?) (unamplified?)? Music (amplified?) (unamplified?) There are microphones and setups made for many sound sources.

For instance, I generally record live amplified concerts from the audience. I have a pair of tiny stereo mics that I can clip to a shirt and a battery module that prevents loud sounds from creating distorted recordings. It's not ultra high fidelity, but it's excellent for my needs.

But if your son is making recordings under different circumstances--if, for instance, he can set up a stereo mic (like the MS907 recommended above) or a pair of mics that won't be disturbed--it would be good to know what those circumstances are.

Finally, a curve ball: If his primary task is making new recordings, and he is not tied to minidiscs, there are some other gadgets that will do live stereo recordings and get them into a computer much more easily (and sensibly) than minidisc, also in the $200-$300 range. That's why minidisc is fading away.

The more specific he can be about what he needs his new toy to do, the better you and we can help.

[hygienist53]

That's really helpful. Many thanks, MDzorro

He really just wants to play a bit of music to sing to and for quizzes and games on stage, so only needs a fairly basic one.

I can get a new MZ RH1 for under £180 inc delivery (can give the link if anyone is interested) but it really does more than he will want.

I'll look at the mics you mention, thanks. I've seen new mics on ebay which should be £40, listed for around £5; they're obviously fake, but will they work OK?

Really appreciate your time.

Cheers

IV

[hygienist53]

Wow, A440, that is incredibly helpful and I've understood every word - well done, thanks.

Yes, he is playing mini discs that are prerecorded and others do too, and won't need to upload (I finally understand what that means, thanks) old recordings.

I shall look out for the machines you mention.

Re mic: he is mostly recording speech and singing, but it's rather amateurish - the shows are a bit Butlinsy and "fun" rather than professional, though he'll want to record both amplified and non, presumably - recording things for the shows - like sounds/music for quiz questions and also of the show presumably.

I'll have to try and ask if he wants a hand-held mic or a clip-on one (interesting that you use a pair) - you ask really helpful questions, thanks. If he's holding an amplifying microphone, he might not want to hold another one.

Re curve ball - I'm relieved to say we'll stick with minidisc rather than make the decision even worse.

Is that all your points? Hope so.

One more thing: he doesn't use HiMD - just cheap old ones, so would you recommend any other machines? I reckon we should stick with your original recommendations, as the reviews are great though.

Gosh it's complicated but you're all being incredibly helpful and I apologise for being such an ignorant pain.

I thought kids would be less bother when they grew up but it hasn't quite worked that way.

Cheers

[A440]

I thought kids would be less bother when they grew up but it hasn't quite worked that way.

Can't help you on that front.

I use a pair because it provides the depth of a stereo recording. Your brain processes the very slightly different signals received from two receptors six inches apart--those would be your ears--and infers all kinds of things about depth and distance. It's pretty amazing if you think about it.

The mic input on a minidisc (unlike the one on many computers) is stereo, and if you use a mono mic with it--the plug will have one circle around it, instead of two like your headphone plug--you'll only get sound on the left channel. Even single-point mics, like the MS907, often have two elements, slightly separated to increase stereo depth.

To plunge into the microphone jungle further...you'll run across two types of microphones: cardioid, which are directional, and binaural or omni, which receive sound from all around you ike your ears. Do you want to maximize sound from the stage and make the audience response sound very distant? Cardioids. Do you want the recording to simulate what a spectator would hear? Binaurals.

There are also different connectors, and you'll want a mic with a stereo miniplug (again, like your headphones), because otherwise you will need an adaptor.

Here's another thought. Is all of the sound your son wants to record going through a mixer into a PA system? Because the Hi-MD recorder (and virtually every other recorder) has not only the (red) mic jack but a (white) line-in jack that accepts an amplified signal (again, stereo miniplug) It may need an adaptor, but may not--there may be a headphone output of the PA system signal.

In other words, you could send the signal from the PA mixer into the minidisc and get a clear recording of what's happening onstage--all you'd need would be a cord. What you won't get is applause (except what the stage mics pick up) or the sound of the performance in the hall.

Grateful Dead fanatics make what they call "matrix tapes" of live shows, mixing the (clean, sterile) sound of the PA mix with the (noisy, lively, reverberating) sound of an audience recording.

Under Gallery there are a lot of people's MD recordings, including mine, and some information on the microphones used to make them. You'll find different, and pricier, mics in the EU, but if you look at the Live Recording forum here you can find Greenmachine's handmade omnis which are similar to what i use for audience recordings. Search the page for "Affordable."

Edited December 30, 2008 by A440

[Hungerdunger]

the shows are a bit Butlinsy

You might want to expand on that phrase for our American cousins who probably have no idea of the joys of spending a week or two in such a high class holiday experience as Butlins.

[hygienist53]

Ha, good point. British holiday camps are a bit like pantomime in that the attraction (which I've never discovered) is impossible to envisage or explain.

It's amazing how many people read and contribute to these forums, especially as minidiscs are "seemingly" outdated.

[tekdroid]

My son wants a mini disc recorder/player for his birthday present;

FREAK!

[hygienist53]

Too technical for my brain now, and more complicated recommendations than he needs - it's just a passing bit of fun for him at the moment, ....but I really do appreciate your efforts.

He just wants something basic and isn't worried about the quality; I had been thinking about this one, but, it appears, (sifting through the bits of your advice that I could follow), that he will want a stereo mic, and this is mono (?):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-FV120-CE7-Voc...CJ3TMTWJAXQ5YRK

I think I know which player to choose now, and will start researching mics - I'll text him to ask if he wants clip-on or hand-held, and be back soon.

Meanwhile, all suggestions gratefully received, provided it's cheapish and you use simple words!

cheers and thanks as ever

IV

I've now had time to look at your recommendations and have seen those cheap ones (ECM-DS70P) on ebay - they must be fake, but are they safe to use?

Also, they appear to plug into the player rather than have a lead, and I'm not sure if that's an advantage or a not, as it must mean the mic will be covered if you have the player in a pocket (?).

I think a clip-on mic sounds like a good idea as is the Hi MD one which is probably better than he needs.

I'll be back!

Ha

This is an amazing way to pass one's time!

I don't who is the saddest though - him, me or you lot!?

But although most of this is way above my head, I'm learning so much...including using emoticans!

[sfbp]

I've now had time to look at your recommendations and have seen those cheap ones (ECM-DS70P) on ebay - they must be fake, but are they safe to use?

Also, they appear to plug into the player rather than have a lead, and I'm not sure if that's an advantage or a not, as it must mean the mic will be covered if you have the player in a pocket (?).

I think a clip-on mic sounds like a good idea as is the Hi MD one which is probably better than he needs.

There's nothing special or different about mics for Hi or Lo MD. Sound is sound, and microphone ***outputs*** live by their specifications ie how many millivolts do they deliver to the recorder. The reason there's a special microphone input on 50%+ of MD recorders is that microphones deliver much lower signal levels than a radio, or tape deck.

I can offer this: if you buy the ECM-DS70P it comes with an extender lead of about 5 feet. This means its easy to put on your lapel, or pinned to a curtain, or wherever he wants to capture a complete soundstage from. The other thing I have done quite successfully is to put the whole MD plus ECM-DS70P (fake or not!) in my shirt or jacket pocket (trying to avoid using the b-word). However, this may be quite poor once he is part of what is being recorded, and better for a passive (ie silent) recordist. It has a hinge which allows you to arrange the twin mics hanging over the edge of the pocket, pointing forwards.

It does sound as if the ones you looked at so far are mono. This might give a problem since the input is stereo, not sure whether you get noise, silence, or a duplicate of the signal on the other channel. Once again, others may know better than I do. Watch out you don't buy something with a 1/4" jack, you need 1/8" aka 3.5mm.

[hygienist53]

Invaluable advice yet again, thanks.

Can't believe how complicated it all is or how I got myself volunteered.

Would still appreciate either a good-priced recommendation, or reassurance that the £5 ones on ebay will be OK,...or not of course, please.

[A440]

I just looked at Ebay UK. And you know what? If I were you I'd take a chance on one of the fake DS70P microphones. They may turn out to be all he needs.

Don't plug it directly into the MD unit. Photographers (even Sony ones!) think it looks really cute, but the MD has a motor to spin the disc that makes the unit vibrate. Plugged directly into the MD unit, the DS70P makes beautiful hi-fi recordings of the motor noise. The real Sonys, as noted above, do come with a lead, and you could always get a lead at any electronics store--miniplug to minijack--if the cheap ones don't include it.

The mic you are looking at in the link is mono and will only send sound to the left channel. You could buy a mono-to-stereo adapter for a pound or two that would send the same signal to both channels. But you would be better off with a stereo mic--it makes a world of difference in how enjoyable it is to listen to the recordings. Mono puts it in the middle of your head. Stereo puts it all around you.

Look for the stereo version of that tabletop mic, the ECM-MS907--maybe not at Amazon but at Ebay.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-ECMMS907-CE7-...1753&sr=1-1

And isn't that interesting, Amazon UK sells it with the MZ-RH1 as a package.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-Hi-MD-with-Se..._bxgy_ce_text_b

I think something like that mic--to leave it set up on a table pointed toward the stage--is probably what you want ideally.

Do look at the Affordable Mics thread under Live Recording and see if you can contact Greenmachine. If he is still making those mics, it's a very good price. But those are two small mics on a lead--they need to be clipped to something. They are also omnidirectional, which may be very realistic--I love omnis--but may also not be appropriate if the audience is noisy and you're trying to capture the stage performance.

Get one of those DS70Ps and tell us how good (or bad) it is!

[hygienist53]

Wonderful explanation thanks.

"I just looked at Ebay UK. And you know what? If I were you I'd take a chance on one of the fake DS70P microphones. They may turn out to be all he needs."

I'm now considering this, which I've also posted in a newish thread about microphones

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=120355849784

and this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=260311185391

"Don't plug it directly into the MD unit. Photographers (even Sony ones!) think it looks really cute, but the MD has a motor to spin the disc that makes the unit vibrate. Plugged directly into the MD unit, the DS70P makes beautiful hi-fi recordings of the motor noise. The real Sonys, as noted above, do come with a lead, and you could always get a lead at any electronics store--miniplug to minijack--if the cheap ones don't include it."

That is soooo helpful thanks.

"The mic you are looking at in the link is mono and will only send sound to the left channel. You could buy a mono-to-stereo adapter for a pound or two that would send the same signal to both channels. But you would be better off with a stereo mic--it makes a world of difference in how enjoyable it is to listen to the recordings. Mono puts it in the middle of your head. Stereo puts it all around you. "

message gratefully received

"Do look at the Affordable Mics thread under Live Recording and see if you can contact Greenmachine. If he is still making those mics, it's a very good price. But those are two small mics on a lead--they need to be clipped to something. They are also omnidirectional, which may be very realistic--I love omnis--but may also not be appropriate if the audience is noisy and you're trying to capture the stage performance."

Can't find what you're talking about but there will be an audience.

"Get one of those DS70Ps and tell us how good (or bad) it is!"

For sure - you don't get rid of me that easily, I'm enjoying the forum; though my opinion won't be worth much, I'll know if they're rubbish.

many thanks and happy new year.

IV