Sony MZ-RH1 Shoddy Construction? US- Model

[ajk0952]

I was wondering if all MZ-RH1 models had shoddy construction in relation to the top lids. For mine, I noticed that when you put the unit on a flat surface and press down on the right or left corners of the lid slightly on the back, it gives a slight popping noise (like the lid bouncing back up). Is this considered normal or is my own MZ-RH1 starting to show its age and do I need to take it apart to screw tighter any internal components? Thanks again Minidisc community.

[sfbp]

Sorry I deleted my reply when I realised it was you - since you know all about tightening up the externals.

However I just checked and my own does what you describe on one side (right) but not the other (left).

After some moments of observation of where the play (motion) was coming from, I loosened the screw at the back of the unit, then held the joint shut with one hand whilst tightening (only) that one screw with my other hand. Bingo!

[ajk0952]

Thanks for the quick solution Sfbp. I'll try that out later today...sooo aggravating that Sony's flagship model proved to be such a frustration on consumers. It's almost like I'm caring for a delicate human being haha. Anyhow, thanks again and I'll be back with the results.

Oh, and one thing I need to ask you. When you describe directions in your previous response, do you mean the OLED display in the back and the two screws in the front or vice versa? I just wanted to know if it was the same area for me too.

[sfbp]

OLED at the front. Screws at the back.

I see Jeff (ShriDurga) is reading this, and I know he has the much praised Japanese-made RH1. I wonder if that has the same issues or not?

[sinus]

OLED at the front. Screws at the back.

I see Jeff (ShriDurga) is reading this, and I know he has the much praised Japanese-made RH1. I wonder if that has the same issues or not?

It's also made in Malaysia.

[sfbp]

oops - didn't know that. I was just reading Avrin's comment that many items had different components for the Japanese market

Also I will say (and it is generally known) of course that the Made in Japan stuff is often better. Eg my JE640 and JE630 are both made in Japan, and both look better and perform flawlessly. The JE510 that died was made in Malaysia. I know, only a sample of 1.........

[sinus]

oops - didn't know that. I was just reading Avrin's comment that many items had different components for the Japanese market

Also I will say (and it is generally known) of course that the Made in Japan stuff is often better. Eg my JE640 and JE630 are both made in Japan, and both look better and perform flawlessly. The JE510 that died was made in Malaysia. I know, only a sample of 1.........

I totally agree. I'm a fan of products not made in slavery-land. But to say that the RH1 was deliberately made worse for foreign markets is nonsense (except of course the EU forced volume limitation).

[Abby Normal]

But to say that the RH1 was deliberately made worse for foreign markets is nonsense (except of course the EU forced volume limitation).

I would say that they make it better for domestic, not worse for foreign. This isn't out of the question. I've seen reports of great gadgets which NEVER get released outside of Japan. I don't know why, but it is the truth.

[sinus]

I would say that they make it better for domestic, not worse for foreign. This isn't out of the question. I've seen reports of great gadgets which NEVER get released outside of Japan. I don't know why, but it is the truth.

Yes, yes, yes for notexistingchrissake!

"Gadgets not released outside of Japan" equals "they deliberately make differences in quality for EXACT the same unit made in EXACT the same factory"

???

can't be serious. and the far-fetched comparisons in the other thread is the next thing i'm skeptical about. There's nothing better than the good ol' blind A/B test. Period.

[Abby Normal]

Take a deep breath.

I didn't say I agree, I just said it's plausible. I have been surprised more than once by cultural quirks. Direct eye contact in Asia is considered obnoxious, for example. Supposedly you're supposed to look at them kinda cross-eyed--at the bridge of their nose/eyebrows, but never the eyes. Did I say it made sense to me? Nope.

We don't know if it was the exact same factory. Same country, yes.

[tekdroid]

as an aside:

form memory, the last Hi-MD unit made in Japan I believe was the MZ-NH1.

[ajk0952]

Hi Sfbp. I followed your solution to the T and it seems to have worked. Now, I find this rather odd: even though the screws are mounted on the bottom half of the RH1 back-side, do those same screws somehow control the tightening of the top lid as well? At first, I thought I was doing this for no reason because it didn't look like it would work in theory but it works out in practical terms. And I know we about killed the subject on vertical positioning motor and alignments but would the loose top lid have anything to do with the vertical positioning error that I had before? Or is it completely unrelated? Thanks.

[sfbp]

Hi Sfbp. I followed your solution to the T and it seems to have worked. Now, I find this rather odd: even though the screws are mounted on the bottom half of the RH1 back-side, do those same screws somehow control the tightening of the top lid as well? At first, I thought I was doing this for no reason because it didn't look like it would work in theory but it works out in practical terms. And I know we about killed the subject on vertical positioning motor and alignments but would the loose top lid have anything to do with the vertical positioning error that I had before? Or is it completely unrelated? Thanks.

No idea, to be honest.

The way that the clamshell opens could affect exactly where the MD disk actually ends up sitting, I suppose. And that in turn might cause some vertical motion as the unit self-recalibrates.

I think all we did by tightening it in this way was to reduce the play at the hinge. After all, how well that fits (and it is pretty tight) is an indicator of how close to original factory condition is. After a lot of insertions, I expect any of these units to show a little looseness. The miracle is the ones that don't. So far the only model that looks 100% is the N910 (of which I had 2) and which is (surprise!) made in Japan. Oh yes, and my R91, also Japanese-made.

[Avrin]

I would say that they make it better for domestic, not worse for foreign.

Exactly! Export units (both Made in Japan and officially made outside Japan) are good, reliable, and operate strictly according to their specifications. But those made for Japan are just a little bit better. Believe me, in many units this "little bit" is quite tangible, and can be heard/seen/measured.

as an aside:

form memory, the last Hi-MD unit made in Japan I believe was the MZ-NH1.

The NH3D and the EH1 are also made in Japan.

---

Returning to the initial post and the clamshell of the RH1. Both my units have some clamshell play, the first one more, the second one less. This doesn't seem to affect anything - discs are still latched reliably. But the Japanese-only NH3D doesn't have any clamshell play. And the Japanese-only SonicStage 4.4 is better than the export 4.3.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Avrin

[sinus]

Yeah, give us the 4.4 ultimate!!!! :-D

[Avrin]

It is possible to make the original 4.4 work on an English XP machine by installing native XP support for Japanese and modifying the installation script. But I don't think it's worth it. The main part (the OpenMG 5.0 engine), responsible for encoding/communication with devices/transfers, from the Japanese 4.4 is already included in the "ultimate" English 4.3, along with new drivers. Basically, the "ultimate" 4.3 is the full engine from 4.4 with an English interface from 4.3. And, since no additional functions are introduced in 4.4 (except for HE-AAC support), the interface fits it perfectly.

What's interesting is that SONY continues to provide all [Hi]MD-related libraries even in their latest version of OpenMG 5.4, included with non-MD SonicStage 5.2. But I'm not using OpenMG versions later than 5.0, since that was the last version used for a [Hi]MD SonicStage (4.4), and, as such, probably contains more thoroughly tested [Hi]MD components than later ones. Also, OpenMG versions later than 5.0 are no longer compatible with Windows 2000.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Avrin

[tekdroid]

The NH3D and the EH1 are also made in Japan.

Pff, all fakers with no mic/line inputs don't count

[Avrin]

The NH3D is a downloader, so it does have a recording head. Thus it is fatter than the EH1.

[ajk0952]

To Avrin: Hi, I relayed the topic about vertical alignment motor to Sfbp several times and just wanted to get your opinion of the matter too. Could the loose clamshell lid affect the vertical alignment motor in any way?

[sfbp]

Very true, I stand corrected; and I have another question: I have always wondered, and am sure you can give me an answer, can a downloader edit tracks? Title, rearrange, delete, etc.?

If it can, that could motivate me in wanting to acquire one, for when journeys I'm heading for are a little too rough for an EH1.

Yeah, my NH600D is just fine at titling etc. Can even upload.

Cheers

[philippeb]

Very true, I stand corrected; and I have another question: I have always wondered, and am sure you can give me an answer, can a downloader edit tracks? Title, rearrange, delete, etc.?

If it can, that could motivate me in wanting to acquire one, for when journeys I'm heading for are a little too rough for an EH1.

The DH10P cannot edit tracks. It can format discs, though. It even demands it after an infamous Hi-MD system file corruption.

[sfbp]

Hmmm. Edit, no. Title, and upload, yes. (on the 600D)

[Avrin]

To Avrin: Hi, I relayed the topic about vertical alignment motor to Sfbp several times and just wanted to get your opinion of the matter too. Could the loose clamshell lid affect the vertical alignment motor in any way?

I don't think it could affect the operation of the unit, unless it is really loose. The disc shell is still pressed against its support and pins, and the disc itself it secured on the unit's central spindle plate by a magnet, so it is properly aligned in the mechanism.

And what's an alignment motor, anyway?

Hmmm. Edit, no. Title, and upload, yes. (on the 600D)

The NH3D has no Edit menu at all.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Avrin

[sfbp]

And what's an alignment motor, anyway?

Huh?

Page 57 of the MZ-RH1 Service manual. Part M703 labelled "MOTOR UNIT, DC Overwrite head UP/DOWN" Sony part # 1-477-519-21

Unless I have misunderstood, this controls which of the 3 layers in the multi layer disc is accessed. Go on, explain it to me, I'm sure you have a better way of seeing this.....

[Avrin]

Ah, this! Its function is much simpler - it lowers the magnetic overwrite head onto the disc during recording, and raises it after. In portable units it also drives a special lever to lock the lid when the head is lowered. No alignment whatsoever is performed during this.

Reading a 3-layered DWDD Hi-MD disc is fully done by the laser pickup. Basically, the second layer is heated up to its Curie temperature in order to obtain a zoomed image of the third layer on the first one, which is then read out. Like in a cinema, where the third layer is the film, the second one is the projector lens, and the first one is the screen, and the laser functions as both the lamp and the eye.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Avrin

[ajk0952]

Hi Avrin. Thanks for your explanation of the functions. So then, what could possibly be the reason for the clicking noises that I experienced on my MZ-Rh1 prior? Just for background info -- I used to get a "read error" on my MZ-RH1 simply by pressing play button. In the service manual, I located the error code from the service mode and it said - focus error (no change) and illegal cluster specified during error or something of that nature. It hasn't happened since then, but just for my own edification.

Also, to everyone: Do you know of any way or manner of fixing or masking a small scratch mark on the body portion of the MZ-RH1? I didn't realize this, but on the back of the MZ-RH1, right in between the two lid compartment area, there is a small scratch mark. I understand that I might have gotten this by accidently using the small phillips screwdriver for tightening purposes. Normally, I wouldn't be so anal about something as small as this sort of problem but it just bothers me because it still looks and works like a semi-new unit and would like to keep it in excellent condition if possible. If anybody could relay any solutions to this particular problem would be greatly appreciated. Thank you once again.

[tekdroid]

Ah, this! Its function is much simpler - it lowers the magnetic overwrite head onto the disc during recording, and raises it after. In portable units it also drives a special lever to lock the lid when the head is lowered. No alignment whatsoever is performed during this.

Reading a 3-layered DWDD Hi-MD disc is fully done by the laser pickup. Basically, the second layer is heated up to its Curie temperature..."

I always thought reading was done at far lower power output, not necessitating the heating of the layer to its Curie temp (as opposed to recording, which is).

[Avrin]

You're right, reading is done at a lower power, even in Hi-MD. The Curie temperature of the second layer of gigabyte discs is much lower than that of the recording layer. Thus the laser power required for reading a gigabyte disc is roughly the same as for a standard one, and several times lower than what is required for recording.

Hi Avrin. Thanks for your explanation of the functions. So then, what could possibly be the reason for the clicking noises that I experienced on my MZ-Rh1 prior?

Poor focusing. This may be caused by a dirty lens, or a misadjusted or dying laser.

Just for background info -- I used to get a "read error" on my MZ-RH1 simply by pressing play button.

That's exactly what I had the next day after I bought my first RH1. The problem appeared only for standard 80 minute discs (in any format). Lowering the value at address 0124 from 41 to 39 solved the problem. On my second RH1 I changed the value as soon as the unit arrived, so the problem never had a chance to appear. The RH910 and the RH10 also had this value decreased after I bought them. First generation units were already OK (one of the NH600s even has 37 there).

Edited August 29, 2009 by Avrin

[Levanel]

Back to the original topic.....

Yeah, my RH1 sqeaks a little.. but just only one side, not the other.

----

hmmm, SS 4.4? Ultimate? WTF?