Quality Loss on mp3 to ATRAC?

[trott3r]

Hello,

I have until now used minidisc as a long running tape recording from analogue in or digital in.

Until now, when i want to transfer a unprotected mp3 album to minidisc audio that

I can put into any minidisc player that supports LP2

I want to know if i transferred it with minimum loss since this is my first encounter

with sonicstage V4.3.01.14050. I imported the mp3 192kbps files into sonic stage

and selected netmd as the destination window. The transfer settings were set to recording

mode LP2 stereo.

I used LP2 as the album is 1hr 20mins long and I wanted to use just the one disc

which would of been 80mins in standard mode.

Then i just started the conversion process with my netmd mindisc recorder attached.

It did the conversion and transfered across to the recorder fine and plays fine in my

JB980 machine.

I was wondering if i missed any tricks? that are needed to avoid any lossy compression

in the process to maintain quality as high as possible.

thanks for your time

Martin N

[PhilippeC]

If you want to make fast transfert, just do as you do (transfert MP3 to your Net-MD machine in LP2 mode) with SonicStage.

If your care about the final audio quality, I have another alternative :

- get a soundcard with an optic out (or see http://forums.sonyinsider.com/index.php?showtopic=5370)

- record in real time on your MD (any mode SP, LP2...) with your optical cable

but, instead of using SonicStage to listen to your MP3, use Windows Media Player or Winamp (+ WinCue plug-in) with DFX Audio enhancer

http://www.fxsound.com/dfx/pages/order/index.php?vendor=11&subvendor=500&plus=0&refer=notb

The result is incredibly good, even with 192 kbps MP3.

[trott3r]

If you want to make fast transfert, just do as you do (transfert MP3 to your Net-MD machine in LP2 mode) with SonicStage.

If your care about the final audio quality, I have another alternative :

- get a soundcard with an optic out (or see http://forums.sonyinsider.com/index.php?showtopic=5370)

- record in real time on your MD (any mode SP, LP2...) with your optical cable

but, instead of using SonicStage to listen to your MP3, use Windows Media Player or Winamp (+ WinCue plug-in) with DFX Audio enhancer

http://www.fxsound.com/dfx/pages/order/index.php?vendor=11&subvendor=500&plus=0&refer=notb

The result is incredibly good, even with 192 kbps MP3.

So i am doing it the correct way in sonicstage?

I dont see how the second way would be any better.

It is still recording in lp2 and so still lossy the same way as transfering in sonic stage.

BTW in SP the album is 1h 20mins 39 secs which should fit on a 80mins 59secs minidsc but

sonicstage says the last track doesnt fit! :0

Martin N

[sfbp]

Importing existing compressed (MP3 or Atrac) files into sonic stage appears to work fine. The only thing that you should remember is to make sure any Atrac files you have are decrypted (File conversion tool) all the time, so you're not stuck on one PC and do not lose the lot when something happens to your registry (like a system upgrade or whatever).

The weak point appears to be Sonic Stage's own importing of CD's. They left it on one setting (fast) and when you transcode THAT to LP2, the result is garbage (IMO). Also I would avoid transcoding LP2 to LP4 and vice versa simply because they use completely different encoding techniques. This can be a problem if you have a target on which you wish to put multiple bitrates, however if you leave the setting "as is" that saves a lot of problems.

Someone published a way to get 86 minutes out of an MD... google on "Miyadisc". It's on this site somewhere but since the move I generally cannot find things (HINT HINT). Annoying, isn't it. There's some overhead but if you have lots of tracks, the partial frames probably add up to more than 20 seconds. Even if you DID use SP transfer you'd only get the same quality (LP2) as you do now, just Sony didn't 'fess up to padding the sound data with blank bits.

The only way would be to play back at x1 from optical (PC) into optical, and you might or might not have to mark the tracks yourself. But it would fit. And you'd get true SP on the device. But 192kbps MP3 isn't so much better (if at all) than 132k Atrac3 that you are likely to see much difference. Be happy.

[trott3r]

Importing existing compressed (MP3 or Atrac) files into sonic stage appears to work fine. The only thing that you should remember is to make sure any Atrac files you have are decrypted (File conversion tool) all the time, so you're not stuck on one PC and do not lose the lot when something happens to your registry (like a system upgrade or whatever).

At what stage do i use the file conversion tool?

I ran it over my current library and now i cant transfer some mono recordings I made over microphone

back to NetMD. It would go back to NetMD until i used the file conversion tool to decrypt the library.

Doesnt make sense to me that.

The weak point appears to be Sonic Stage's own importing of CD's. They left it on one setting (fast) and when you transcode THAT to LP2, the result is garbage (IMO).

I am not doing CDs at the moment though just an mp3 album.

Also I would avoid transcoding LP2 to LP4 and vice versa simply because they use completely different encoding techniques. This can be a problem if you have a target on which you wish to put multiple bitrates, however if you leave the setting "as is" that saves a lot of problems.

Okay doing that so far.

Someone published a way to get 86 minutes out of an MD... google on "Mischa" (maybe Misha but I don't think so). It's on this site somewhere but since the move I generally cannot find things (HINT HINT). Annoying, isn't it. There's some overhead but if you have lots of tracks, the partial frames probably add up to more than 20 seconds. Even if you DID use SP transfer you'd only get the same quality (LP2) as you do now, just Sony didn't 'fess up to padding the sound data with blank bits.

That good to know, so i am stuck with LP2 with sonicstage?

Yes it does look like SP on my jb980.

The only way would be to play back at x1 from optical (PC) into optical, and you might or might not have to mark the tracks yourself. But it would fit. And you'd get true SP on the device. But 192kbps MP3 isn't so much better (if at all) than 132k Atrac3 that you are likely to see much difference. Be happy.

Hmm bummer, does this also apply to the "no limits" MZ-RH1?

I could transfer the mp3s to my western digital media tv and play them with that through the optical into my Jb980 as well then. Otherwise its the PC route which i am not familiar with.

thanks for your time

Martin

[sfbp]

Bottom line: if your ears can tell it's ok, it's ok.

Lots of things that ought to sound awful sound perfect and vice-versa. The biggest shock to anyone who has used only MP3 compression is that SP->PCM sounds so good that "I can't believe it's not butter" as the Ads for margarine say.

The file conversion tool is only for things that you uploaded by USB into the PC from an MD. I think. Maybe someone will correct me, although I do know that you cannot remove the protection from Connect tunes in this way. You can and should run it to convert anything you uploaded, especially tracks from the precious RH1 (which ain't that solid a beast, sadly), before Sony loses your authorizations. And repeat regularly for new uploads.

One remark of yours I don't understand:

Yes it does look like SP on my jb980.

[PhilippeC]

Please, just listen a while your MP3 with WMP / Winamp with DFX audio enhancer... That will change your life.