I'm going back to minidisc!

[melmel]

Having had to deal with Windows Media Player and iTunes over the last ten years Sonicstage seems a breeze, you can transfer songs to your PC (or Mac running XP with bootcamp) transfer songs from PC to Hi-Md unit in any quality you want PCM, Hi-SP, or Hi-LP, and make playlists and even "dynamic" playlists, i like the play random music for 30mins or more like 2hrs for me

It seems very much like a cross between iTunes and WMP, with all the bad bits removed! imho

I'm also okay with Sonicstage. I use it to transfer music that I only have in the mp3 format, to LP2.

Things are different today, and you have options. But I remember pre-2006, Sonicstage really sucked. It was a system hog and crashed often. iTunes was (and is) a breath of fresh air for me. It was comparatively reliable and organized. Filenames and tags in Japanese (and other languages) worked fine.

Sonicstage is now stable because of our Core 2 Duo, i3/i5/i7 processors.

I have my complete music library organized in iTunes.

[toxaco]

The advantage of the RH1 is to do something you really can not do easily any other way (sure, x1 with digital out from an MDLP deck), namely upload from non-HiMD disks. If you gotta have one, you can't live without it. Definitely not for use as a player, although it's very nice.

thanks sfbp, i knew there was a reason everyone has them, i'm green as a pea to minidisc, i went straight from recording on cassettes to recording on a PC & burning CDs, I remember my brother had a minidisc machine in the mid 90s and i did use it, but was not impressed with the sound quality. I don't know what version of atrac it would be, 96/76.

I'm also okay with Sonicstage. I use it to transfer music that I only have in the mp3 format, to LP2.

Things are different today, and you have options. But I remember pre-2006, Sonicstage really sucked. It was a system hog and crashed often. iTunes was (and is) a breath of fresh air for me. It was comparatively reliable and organized. Filenames and tags in Japanese (and other languages) worked fine.

Sonicstage is now stable because of our Core 2 Duo, i3/i5/i7 processors.

I have my complete music library organized in iTunes.

and there you have it, why apple seems to have won, simplicity!

you make something simple to use for non computer literate people and you can conquer the world!

I do like itunes for it's simple straight forward design, especially on the Mac where you can drag tunes out from itunes and it will copy the file onto your desktop.

I still think my NH600 or 900 sound better than any ipod i have heard! Hi-Sp all the way tho, after years of listening to 128kbs mp3, Hi-LP or MDLP doesn't really cut it for me. It has to sound alive. I like the comment from Joanne Chen saying that her Minidsc sounds better than lossless files on a mp3 player. I concur Hi-Sp on my NH900 sounds better than WAV on my ipod!

[melmel]

I still think my NH600 or 900 sound better than any ipod i have heard! Hi-Sp all the way tho, after years of listening to 128kbs mp3, Hi-LP or MDLP doesn't really cut it for me. It has to sound alive. I like the comment from Joanne Chen saying that her Minidsc sounds better than lossless files on a mp3 player. I concur Hi-Sp on my NH900 sounds better than WAV on my ipod!

I agree that sp and hi-sp sound better than mp3's and aac's.

[Joanne_Chan]

For someone starting entirely from CD's it's completely true that LP4 can be quite annoying. LP2, much less often.

Starting from (say) a broadcast stream in the 64-192kbps range, your statements about LP4 having artifacts are much less true - maybe even palpably false. Typically these streams have already thrown away the bits (white noise) that in SP and CD the systems are taking much trouble to reproduce.

I would agree with anyone who said "it's very tricky to get LP4 recordings that sound good". Only takes the slightest variation in input parameters to mess up the result. For instance RAISING the source bit rate being recorded may force me to use LP2 instead.

Having said that, I have hundreds of hours of all kinds of classical music recorded this way. Stuff which has always been a severe test of analogue systems, and certainly of MP3. Long held notes on solo clarinet or solo french horn, loud percussive piano music such as a concerto, very loud organ with extremes of pitch (and therefore overtones). All of these without problems, provided the source did not contain significant amounts of analogue white noise - which presupposes a digital source, of course. As soon as you do recording of analogue signals, now you need at least LP2 - the MDLP decks (perhaps not portables, I have not experimented) seem to have the right filters to make that work nicely.

Funny artifact recording opera. Turns out the announcer's signal is usually mono. Attempting to compress-encode a mono signal with joint stereo (as most MP3 and also in LP4) doesn't work well at all. You get sibilants on the voice - now there's an annoying artifact. Music works fine, voice doesn't - who woulda thunk it? LP2 is fine, natch.

I wonder if popular music has a bunch of "mono" instruments "tracked in" to the mix? That might just lead to the same effect as noted above.

Stephen

Depends on the mix but it is certainly true that Phil Ramone's mixes for Billy Joel have a lot of centre information which would be at risk in joint stereo based codecs.

[mmp64]

thanks sfbp, i knew there was a reason everyone has them, i'm green as a pea to minidisc, i went straight from recording on cassettes to recording on a PC & burning CDs, I remember my brother had a minidisc machine in the mid 90s and i did use it, but was not impressed with the sound quality. I don't know what version of atrac it would be, 96/76.

and there you have it, why apple seems to have won, simplicity!

you make something simple to use for non computer literate people and you can conquer the world!

I do like itunes for it's simple straight forward design, especially on the Mac where you can drag tunes out from itunes and it will copy the file onto your desktop.

I still think my NH600 or 900 sound better than any ipod i have heard! Hi-Sp all the way tho, after years of listening to 128kbs mp3, Hi-LP or MDLP doesn't really cut it for me. It has to sound alive. I like the comment from Joanne Chen saying that her Minidsc sounds better than lossless files on a mp3 player. I concur Hi-Sp on my NH900 sounds better than WAV on my ipod!

Apple also perfected the integration of hardware and software. I went over because of Smart Playlists, which no one else had at the time, and as far as I know, still don't.

[melmel]

and there you have it, why apple seems to have won, simplicity!

you make something simple to use for non computer literate people and you can conquer the world!

Apple also perfected the integration of hardware and software. I went over because of Smart Playlists, which no one else had at the time, and as far as I know, still don't.

I think we'll just have to agree that Apple wins on convenience and "acceptable quality." The sound quality is not the best, but it is good.

And actually, even big producers and "computer-literate" people use iTunes and Apple software. They don't have time to tinker, adjust, and test as "geeks" do. They trust the tools and do stuff.

The idea that Apple and iTunes are for "non computer literate" people sounds counter-intuitive. It doesn't make sense.

[toxaco]

The idea that Apple and iTunes are for "non computer literate" people sounds counter-intuitive. It doesn't make sense.

Ok, of i said that Apple computers have always been aimed at computer illiterate people, ie: graphic designers & musicians etc, ever since they came out with Macintosh in 1984, would that make more sense to you Melmel?

[warpgeek]

Ok, of i said that Apple computers have always been aimed at computer illiterate people, ie: graphic designers & musicians etc, ever since they came out with Macintosh in 1984, would that make more sense to you Melmel?

It makes sense to me. It will always be in proprietary software vendors' interest to dumb-down their users (customers) as much as possible, in order to engage them via the ongoing marketing machine that delivers yet more sales.

[sfbp]

Remember the whole generation of IT managers who had the mantra "no one ever got fired for buying IBM"?

[warpgeek]

@sfpb

I thought that was still true! ;-)

[melmel]

Ok, of i said that Apple computers have always been aimed at computer illiterate people, ie: graphic designers & musicians etc, ever since they came out with Macintosh in 1984, would that make more sense to you Melmel?

This is what I think:

It makes no sense to me. How can you say that designers and musicians (stereotypes) who use Apple computers are computer-illiterate? Yo, they are using a computer and accomplishing some big things! Am I car-illiterate if I only drive, speed, and park?

Unless you mean that Mac users "may" not understand file systems, drivers, the registry, hacks, networking, and hardware stuff such as installing ram's, upgrading video cards, and installing a second hard-drive? I personally think that some people have been "conditioned" by Microsoft into believing that they know their way around a computer just because it had so many problems to begin with.

I could continue, but then it would become another Apple vs. Microsoft topic, which has been argued to death.

Times have changed. This is 2012. I am certainly not car-illiterate if I can only drive a car and maybe change the windshield wipers. Mac users who can do great things with their computers but can only install new ram are certainly NOT computer illiterate.

From what I see, the professionals who are computer geeks are moving to the Mac because they want to spend more time creating things, instead of tinkering/fixing their computers. I belong in this group. A new generation of young users who are into Linux and hacking also enjoy the Mac.

I personally think the "computer illiterate" people today are those who buy weak 10" netbooks and cheap 15" laptops. These devices are mostly unusable, so that means they aren't really using them anyway (and they probably don't even know it).

[PhilippeC]

I am an exclusive PC user since 25 years. I am wondering since all this time, are Apple/McIntosh users are as able as PC users to repair their operating system (without help for a lot of us) ? In other words, is it as easy as with PC ?

[melmel]

I am an exclusive PC user since 25 years. I am wondering since all this time, are Apple/McIntosh users are as able as PC users to repair their operating system (without help for a lot of us) ? In other words, is it as easy as with PC ?

I've been a PC user for 20 years and a Mac user for 6 years. Mac's have almost no problems, seriously, so you don't have things to actually "fix"--maybe flash and java. Moreover, Apple stores are available in big cities to help you with anything. It's like buying a BMW and getting free dealership service (for a year).

It only looks easy to fix things in the PC world because the information is widely available online. So many so many people have problems, that the problems themselves have become common. So the solutions have become common.

I disagree with the "computer illiterate" comment because I "believe" that there are actually more Windows (XP?) users running around with weak netbooks and cheap notebooks from Walmart, and not really accomplishing anything with them.

I am fully aware that the Mac system and ecosystem can be viewed as "restrictive." But that is another topic. I just disagree that Mac users are "computer illiterate." Common Mac users actually upgrade their systems and "try" to learn new tools and new ways of doing things.

[PhilippeC]

Here in vietnam, I can have my computer repaired (no spare parts) for most of the time less than 3US$

[melmel]

Here in vietnam, I can have my computer repaired (no spare parts) for most of the time less than 3US$

But is the $3 for software problems or hardware problems? You also have to consider the time lost just to bring the system to the shop, and that you lose productivity while the system is out. Also, are they gonna mess with your (confidential/private) files?

If it's only $3, you can probably google it and fix it yourself. This goes for both PC and Mac.

[PhilippeC]

If you live in a - rather - big town, you have computer shops everywhere. So you don't lose your time bringing your computer to the shop. You can even stay there, waiting for the diagnostic (most of the time less than half an hour). Private files... you need to care a lot about that (that is why you stay there) because most of these stupid guys (low education) will easily format your HDD without asking you before. But thank to external HDD, everybody is aware of that and backup files at home / work or right there in the shop with the help of the technician if the computer has a problem BEFORE any work on it. With some experience, you know who is serious in this repair business. Laptops are now afordable so they take the place of desktop at work or at home because desktop is not portable, too big and need an UPS. Desktop are still successfull for gamers and very cheap configuration. There is a lot second hand market ("sida") in Vietnam. The only thing you have to take care of is the rain when you go to the computer shop (90% of vietnamese drive a motorbike like... me).

[toxaco]

@ melmel

I am not trying to pick a fight with you, it was just a flippant comment about apple cornering the digital music market!

I agree with you that OS X is a much more aesthetically pleasing and stable environment to work in.

i am the same, I used PCs for many years and have been using Apple for 6 years.

My experience is that a lot of people don't even know where itunes keeps their music files!

and we did get OS X running on a Dell Mini 9! Apple or PC they are all the same know Apple uses Intel processors ;-)

Peace & Love Sony still Rock in 2012

[melmel]

@ melmel

I am not trying to pick a fight with you, it was just a flippant comment about apple cornering the digital music market!

I agree with you that OS X is a much more aesthetically pleasing and stable environment to work in.

i am the same, I used PCs for many years and have been using Apple for 6 years.

My experience is that a lot of people don't even know where itunes keeps their music files!

and we did get OS X running on a Dell Mini 9! Apple or PC they are all the same know Apple uses Intel processors ;-)

Peace & Love Sony still Rock in 2012

Peace and love!

I apologize for sounding so defensive.

You are right that Mac users may not even know where itunes keeps their audio files. But that goes for windows users too!

Anyway, I just don't like the stereotype of Mac users being rich, trendy, and "computer illiterate."

Going back to my car analogy, it is important to be able to control the car well in the driver's seat, enjoy the drive, and go places. I personally believe that Mac computers let their users achieve those things.

[warpgeek]

Anyway, I just don't like the stereotype of Mac users being rich, trendy, and "computer illiterate."

Stereotypes are never good... but... they become stereotypes for a reason. I'd wager a guess that this reason is simply that Apple users are prepared to pay more for what, in some people's eyes, is the same thing.

I find this discussion interesting because I was sitting in an Indian restaurant on Tuesday night with two close friends: one recently bought an iPad (his first Apple device) and the other has an iPhone and also recently bought an iPad and a Mac Book Pro. I would say that this second friend might qualify as "rich" (being an airline pilot), but probably not that trendy. Computer literacy is average.

A comment he made, that stood out to me, is how easy all his "iDevices" are; "I don't know how they do it, but all my photos synced from one to the other [...] I've no idea where they're stored on either device [assuming he meant the iPad or MBP], I just tap on photos and there they are".