I love my NW-A808! As for Sonicstage...

[Earthworm]

I just HAD to say something so please excuse my little rant. I'm not the kind of guy who goes around complaining and nit picking and this is the first time I have felt forced to let off steam but SONICSTAGE IS THE WORST PIECE OF SOFTWARE I HAVE EVER USED. Sorry to shout. Phew, that feels better. Now I absolutely ADORE the NW-A808. It is incredibly easy to use, the user interface is so intuitive and it is clear that someone has gone to great pains over the UI. It really is a joy to use. So, why oh why oh WHY is the software so cr@p? This software is the most confusing, unintuitive, ill thought out, sllllllloooooowwwwww and downright infuriating piece of rubbish I have ever been force to endure. Please Sony. Sack every single person who ever had a part to play in the writing of Sonicstage and make a fresh start. PLEASE !!! (is it only me or is anyone else out there losing their sanity over this bloody software?)

[juli_]

I just HAD to say something so please excuse my little rant. I'm not the kind of guy who goes around complaining and nit picking and this is the first time I have felt forced to let off steam but SONICSTAGE IS THE WORST PIECE OF SOFTWARE I HAVE EVER USED. Sorry to shout. Phew, that feels better. Now I absolutely ADORE the NW-A808. It is incredibly easy to use, the user interface is so intuitive and it is clear that someone has gone to great pains over the UI. It really is a joy to use. So, why oh why oh WHY is the software so cr@p? This software is the most confusing, unintuitive, ill thought out, sllllllloooooowwwwww and downright infuriating piece of rubbish I have ever been force to endure. Please Sony. Sack every single person who ever had a part to play in the writing of Sonicstage and make a fresh start. PLEASE !!! (is it only me or is anyone else out there losing their sanity over this bloody software?)

Oh hahahahahahaha! Welcome to the joys of SS. Yes, it's awful isn't it? But as I wouldn't choose a player other than Sony, I'm stuck with it!

[tekdroid]

(is it only me or is anyone else out there losing their sanity over this bloody software?)

It's not just you. And you shoulda seen it when more DRM was in force. Sony did major damage to their own market, forget competitors.

[RoGeR-atrac]

Now now... which version are you using? I'm on SS 4.3 and personally think its ok. I mean, yeah, its slowish but besides that, its pretty darn good!

[Shinji Ikeda]

(is it only me or is anyone else out there losing their sanity over this bloody software?)

There are things that I like about SonicStage. The learning curve can sometimes be difficult, but I am satisfied with how well it works. SonicStage can be slow, however this depends on the configuration. My complain about SonicStage that it can be a resource hog, thus I ensure that certain applications are not running or can be started while using SonicStage. My experience is different, but it could be that I love working with computers.

[dura_]

SS 4.3 works ok for me, but there is a learningcurve. It works different and less intuitive then comparable applicactions.

But you get used to it; after all all once you are happy with your library that you really do with it is fill your player and listen to your music on the PC.

Making the lib itself, with organising and renaming etc is the greatest pain, learing to find what is possible, where te options are hidden etc etc. but it can be done.

[mrgremlin]

I have never had any trouble with Sonicstage and find it hard to believe that people do have trouble The quality of the encoding is excellent and in my experience it is very stable. I run SS on multiple computers of different configurations, running XP and Vista and would assume I would be having problems if anyone was. I am not saying it is perfect, it could do with podcast support as in Image Converter and a better method of importing compilation mp3 albums, but I don't think it deserves the bad rap it gets from virtually everyone.

[halfm]

Because of the painful experience using SS and Connect, I sold my NW-A3000 which I love the design of.... Can't remember which version I was using though.

Now I am drawn to the design and quality of A808, and so disappointed to find out that you still need SS to upload music to it... Is SS more stable now? I would not want to buy A808 and later forced to sell it cause of the software.

[RoGeR-atrac]

Well, Connect is officially "almost" dead ... and if you do go for SS4.3, then it should be nothing to worry about.

[Ghibli]

I honestly find SS quite trouble-free to use, except that it's painfully slow and the album art assigning is annoying. Other than that it's pretty straightforward to use; no bells or whistles but then again my A806 has plenty of those already.

[pata2001]

This software is the most confusing, unintuitive, ill thought out, sllllllloooooowwwwww and downright infuriating piece of rubbish I have ever been force to endure. Please Sony. Sack every single person who ever had a part to play in the writing of Sonicstage and make a fresh start. PLEASE !!! (is it only me or is anyone else out there losing their sanity over this bloody software?)

Sony tried "fresh" with Connect player, and we knew it was a disaster. Sony simply doesn't know how to create software, plus the pressure from the Sony music/movie to cripple anything related to digital content/media. Read every reviews of Sony products post NW-HD1, and all of them pretty much like the hardware, but despise Sonicstage, yet Sony never learn. Even Steve Jobs said it blatantly at the D5 conference that the key is software, and the Japanese company (read: Sony) doesn't know how to do it. I sound like a broken record here.

[Shinji Ikeda]

Sony tried "fresh" with Connect player, and we knew it was a disaster. Sony simply doesn't know how to create software, plus the pressure from the Sony music/movie to cripple anything related to digital content/media. Read every reviews of Sony products post NW-HD1, and all of them pretty much like the hardware, but despise Sonicstage, yet Sony never learn. Even Steve Jobs said it blatantly at the D5 conference that the key is software, and the Japanese company (read: Sony) doesn't know how to do it. I sound like a broken record here.

Overstating the importance of Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs' company exist only to develop and sell software and Apples CEO knows this. This is why he talked about 'the key is software' Apple almost disappeared when they started allowing other manufactures to sell apple hardware. Thankfully, with the advent of the iPod Aplle has been able to grown on the recover selling there computers. The number one software manufacturers flagship software has more complaints about how it works than Apple sells software.

Mr. Jobs is an excellent speaker, but unfortunately too many people live on every word that he speaks. No matter the DAP people spend more time with their player that on their computer. Apple's iPod advertisements constantly express this simple fact, but try to express that with iPod and iTunes this experience can only be had.

Anyways, Sony included features of Connect into SonicStage.

[pata2001]

Mr. Jobs is an excellent speaker, but unfortunately too many people live on every word that he speaks. No matter the DAP people spend more time with their player that on their computer. Apple's iPod advertisements constantly express this simple fact, but try to express that with iPod and iTunes this experience can only be had.

Anyways, Sony included features of Connect into SonicStage.

My point is if your competitor has to blatantly pointed out your weakness in a public event, and yet you don't even pursue to fix it, then there is something wrong with you and the company.

I've yet to see unicode in Sonicstage. Heck, Sonicstage cannot even play AAC gaplessly, while the hardware (NW-S70x) can.

[lamewing]

I have learned to deal with SS, but what I cannot deal with is the lack of support Sony has for us in the U.S.

WHY is it that they are selling the NW-A808 in Canada, but not in the U.S.? Is this going to be a repeat of the Axxxx series players? Are we to expect the cast off versions of the NW-Axxx series a year or two down the line? I just do not understand how Sony makes these crazy decisions. I can live with having to order it through the SonyStyle website, but heck, I cannot even do that, nor will Sony Canada ship to the U.S.

Maybe I should add South Canada to my shipping address... Or should I just give up on Sony completely???

[aob9]

I have learned to deal with SS, but what I cannot deal with is the lack of support Sony has for us in the U.S.

WHY is it that they are selling the NW-A808 in Canada, but not in the U.S.? Is this going to be a repeat of the Axxxx series players? Are we to expect the cast off versions of the NW-Axxx series a year or two down the line? I just do not understand how Sony makes these crazy decisions. I can live with having to order it through the SonyStyle website, but heck, I cannot even do that, nor will Sony Canada ship to the U.S.

Maybe I should add South Canada to my shipping address... Or should I just give up on Sony completely???

Sony suffers from 'Very Large Corporation Syndrome'. This phenomenon occurs when there are so many people employed by a company that useful communication almost breaks down. It is true to say that Sony makes some very strange decisions when it comes to geographical location. It is also true to say that they seem to be completely ignoring the serious issues that people have with SS and other software titles. They are simply too bogged down with bureaucracy and internal red tape to effect any reasonable change at a reasonable rate.

They are also quite arrogant about people's opinions. When the NW Walkmans were first released earlier this decade Sony set up a forum to discuss the new technology. This was a very lively forum as you can imagine but it was soon shut down due to the devices and software (and ATRAC3) receiving more criticism than praise. It is now becoming increasingly evident that Sony are suffering as a result of not taking the end user seriously. Even my local Sony Centre manager is sometimes bewildered by what he calls ' a lack of joined-up thinking' when it comes to accessories and add-ons for hardware.

I have stayed with Sony to date because they build excellent and reliable hardware. Personally SS works fine for me but then again, I understand computers and I'm prepared to work at a problem if faced with one. I am the exception rather than the rule though, and I personally know people that will not put up with Sony's 'quirkiness' and have simply moved to another provider.I refer particularly to Walkman v. Ipod ( Sonicstage v. iTunes)

[Shinji Ikeda]

Sony suffers from 'Very Large Corporation Syndrome'. This phenomenon occurs when there are so many people employed by a company that useful communication almost breaks down. It is true to say that Sony makes some very strange decisions when it comes to geographical location. It is also true to say that they seem to be completely ignoring the serious issues that people have with SS and other software titles. They are simply too bogged down with bureaucracy and internal red tape to effect any reasonable change at a reasonable rate.

They are also quite arrogant about people's opinions. When the NW Walkmans were first released earlier this decade Sony set up a forum to discuss the new technology. This was a very lively forum as you can imagine but it was soon shut down due to the devices and software (and ATRAC3) receiving more criticism than praise. It is now becoming increasingly evident that Sony are suffering as a result of not taking the end user seriously. Even my local Sony Centre manager is sometimes bewildered by what he calls ' a lack of joined-up thinking' when it comes to accessories and add-ons for hardware.

I have stayed with Sony to date because they build excellent and reliable hardware. Personally SS works fine for me but then again, I understand computers and I'm prepared to work at a problem if faced with one. I am the exception rather than the rule though, and I personally know people that will not put up with Sony's 'quirkiness' and have simply moved to another provider.I refer particularly to Walkman v. Ipod ( Sonicstage v. iTunes)

But this does not explain why Sony has not release on of their most advanced DAP to what is called the largest consumer market. However, you points are very clear and precise.

[Shinji Ikeda]

My point is if your competitor has to blatantly pointed out your weakness in a public event, and yet you don't even pursue to fix it, then there is something wrong with you and the company.

I've yet to see unicode in Sonicstage. Heck, Sonicstage cannot even play AAC gaplessly, while the hardware (NW-S70x) can.

I understand your point it is very clear and precise. However, this same competitor has had the same complaint against it (mostly relating to security). Their PR is better at burying this. This is a standard culture of most large profitable companies. The Nile river does also run through Cupertino.

I would strongly agree that SonicStage can be better and does need some improvements. I want it to be the best, and accepted as being the best. There are many changes that I would recommend.

It seems that Sony does not want consumers to choose the language and how it is supported on their electronic hardware/software. However, this problem is not unique to Sony. There is no clear synergy between other players and the software that is included with it relating to Unicode. Unicode only allow the support of multiple character sets, but this is not full support of the language.

The inconsistency between various Sony software and hardware is a complain of many people. This is more of a design issue than a programming issue.

My point is that SonicStage and other software/hardware should be based on its own merits, and should be constantly improved over time using user input. Or, by implementing constant innovative features.

In other words we like to hear what you like and do not like. Your input is better and more valuable.

[aob9]

I wonder will this issue be relevant for much longer? The NW-B series is now on the market. I, for the life of me do not understand what Sony is up to here. They are either into 'drag and drop' without DRM or they continue to enforce DRM upon us via SS and ATRAC. Why have they not made it clear to the market ( and investors) what their intentions actually are. In certain types of business this lack of clarity would seriously affect investment from shareholders. Is it yet another case of the big corporation not fully understanding what they are doing themselves????

P.S I know this has been discussed on another thread but I thought it was in some way relevant here.

[lamewing]

I wonder will this issue be relevant for much longer? The NW-B series is now on the market. I, for the life of me do not understand what Sony is up to here. They are either into 'drag and drop' without DRM or they continue to enforce DRM upon us via SS and ATRAC. Why have they not made it clear to the market ( and investors) what their intentions actually are. In certain types of business this lack of clarity would seriously affect investment from shareholders. Is it yet another case of the big corporation not fully understanding what they are doing themselves????

P.S I know this has been discussed on another thread but I thought it was in some way relevant here.

The true drag-and-drop can also been seen in the PSP. Anyone can directly drag and drop .mp3 or .aac files to the PSP and instantly listen . It is fascinating that Sony's most difficult competitor isn't Apple, etc., but itself. In regards to the earlier comment regarding language support. We have waited and waited and waited since the inception of SS and we still have no Kanji/Kana support in the West, yet Apple implemented this iTunes without any problems.

[Shinji Ikeda]

The true drag-and-drop can also been seen in the PSP. Anyone can directly drag and drop .mp3 or .aac files to the PSP and instantly listen . It is fascinating that Sony's most difficult competitor isn't Apple, etc., but itself. In regards to the earlier comment regarding language support. We have waited and waited and waited since the inception of SS and we still have no Kanji/Kana support in the West, yet Apple implemented this iTunes without any problems.

I am not familiar with iTunes, but I suspect that it does not fully support the Japanese phonetic alphabet on Non-Japanese computers. Having 休み(yasumi) come before 僕(boku) is phonetically wrong and annoying, since ぼ(bo) in 僕(boku) comes before や(ya) in 休み(yasumi). The shift-JIS code is 966C of 僕(boku) is lower than 8B78 for 休み(yasumi). It is kind of cool being able to read other languages, but it must be in the correct order when searching. Otherwise it becomes just that cool.

The best method would to learn Japanese, since the alphabet is in the correct order in the Japanese version of SonicStage.

The NW-A800 series work perfectly with the Japanese version of windows, giving full hiragana support. In other words the problem describe above does not exist. You can search based on the correct phonetic order for your songs, artist and albums. Something that seem to not be implemented correctly on that other player, even though the supporting software supports Japanese characters.

[pata2001]

I am not familiar with iTunes, but I suspect that it does not fully support the Japanese phonetic alphabet on Non-Japanese computers. Having 休み(yasumi) come before 僕(boku) is phonetically wrong and annoying, since ぼ(bo) in 僕(boku) comes before や(ya) in 休み(yasumi). The shift-JIS code is 966C of 僕(boku) is lower than 8B78 for 休み(yasumi). It is kind of cool being able to read other languages, but it must be in the correct order when searching. Otherwise it becomes just that cool.

It's better than "???????" Besides, iTunes supports not only Japanese kanji, but Chinese and Korean too, so try sorting all of those phonetically. You can scrutinize every nitpick all you want, but fact is iTunes support unicode, Sonicstage doesn't.

[Shinji Ikeda]

It's better than "???????" Besides, iTunes supports not only Japanese kanji, but Chinese and Korean too, so try sorting all of those phonetically. You can scrutinize every nitpick all you want, but fact is iTunes support unicode, Sonicstage doesn't.

Where your believe that I am nitpicking or not is irrelevant. It is known that SonicStage implement the support different languages without the use of Unicode. However, Japanese, Korean and Chinese are not English. The order of the should be in the correct order. Different language have different method organizing their words. Unicode is a method of storing and displaying characters, but without respect to the underlying language. It is kind of funny, that from my understanding the iPod's do not allow searching using hiragana, but the NW-A800 series using the Japanese version of SonicStage does. Additionally, it sorts English words in the correct order. Now that is funny.

If your native language is not properly supported. ????? is no different than having a hard time searching 500 tracks for one song because it does not support the language being display.

Now that is really funny.

[pata2001]

but the NW-A800 series using the Japanese version of SonicStage does. Additionally, it sorts English words in the correct order. Now that is funny.

If your native language is not properly supported. ????? is no different than having a hard time searching 500 tracks for one song because it does not support the language being display.

Can you search with Chinese Kanji or hangul on the A800? Also, are all this doable with US version of Sonicstage? So you prefer your songs to have ????? than an actual title? "Scrolling" with the click wheel is rather fast, so even though the iPod doesn't sort phonetically, most of the times you'll be able to find what you need rather quickly.

[Shinji Ikeda]

My perference is to be able to find my tracks as quick as possible. Having to use Aplocat(or whatever is called) seems to be a pain and majorly inconvenient.

With that said. Having to scroll through 500 songs for one song no matter how quick the method is. Image having someone arbitary order your music. Of course logically, but not in alphabetical order. This is how Unicode is implemented.

Unicode is an excellent method to store data. That what is designed for. I would prefer if SonicStage supported something similar Unicode.

[l'ange]

Hello

In the case of searching 500 songs with Japanese/CJK Tags on the iPod (or other players without Kana-search), considering create some Playlists to make search more easy might be the best solution. Or put tags in Romaji ( horrible & time waste ...).

But it's still better to have the CJK tags displayed with a wrong order (Unicode) than having '??????'

I use Japanese version of SonicStage, and the kanji search is very useful (about 200 tracks in Japanese) .I wonder if Chinese /Hangul search are enabled if you install CN/TW or Korean version of SonicStage.

But in some experimentation, I encountered some 'glitches' with CJK:

-Hangul with square brackets in the tag causes '???' displaying in the player. Removing brackets will make display Korean characters correctly. On all cases, Japanese SonicStage will display ???? as Hangul characters, but it would not affect tags on the player. All tags were added with Winamp/foobar (Unicode support).

-In some cases, Japanese tags are not arranged properly. For example, I find 春までなんぼ in etc.

Edited August 12, 2007 by l'ange

[lamewing]

I agree with pata. I understand the limitations of just using unicode versus the full Japanese SS version, but for some of us, unicode support is enough. My japanese and korean are limited (kanji is the biggest hurdle), but it is still eaiser to find a song if the title shows up in kanji, kana or hangul versus just ????. If Apple is capable of providing this feature, then Sony should be able to as well. Also, my preference to searching my music is via the albums or singers/bands, so that cuts down the choices significantly compared to a fully search through the entire song list.

Overall, I guess it doesn't matter much anymore as I think Sony's lack of support in the U.S. has pretty much made the the need for unicode in SS moot. In a short period of time Sony will simply not matter in regards to DAPs here in the U.S. Sure a small minority might use them, but Sony seems to accepted defeat (unfortunately) and left the U.S. to Apple. After visiting Akihabara in May, I was just astounded at how few products Sony chooses to send here. The S7xx series and the A8xx series were EVERYWHERE. Of course I believed the sales people when they said the A8xx series isn't supported by English OSes. Now I would have to pay an additional $50.00 to $100.00 to import an A808 since Sony refuses to sell them here in the States, but will sell them just north in Canada and in the U.K. as well. Go figure.

Edited August 15, 2007 by lamewing

[aob9]

SS 4.3 is fine. DRM is a pain and always will be, but the same applies to itunes and WMA downloads. Given that Sony DAPS are the best available ( IMO ) SS 4.3 is not a bad 'downside'.

PS......... as anybody else noticed that a 'system restore' in Windows XP no longer renders downloaded ATRAC tracks unusable................I can barely contain myself!!!!!! Good start Sony, now ditch DRM altogether!!

[fugusushi]

I have learned to deal with SS, but what I cannot deal with is the lack of support Sony has for us in the U.S.

you think you've got troubles, i call Sony US support to get some service it's THAT bad here in EU!!!!