From Crickets to Rock Concerts...poised to buy NH900

*mgdimo* · August 30, 2004

Greetings! Newbie GREG, glad to be here. Seems like a very nice, civil community.

Lucky me, I have $300 to spend. I've browsed around this forum and learned a bit. Please tell me what you think about the setup I envision:

Ready to buy a Sony NH900. [$269 from B&H Photo (online) in NY]

Not sure about a mic yet, but I'm checking the Sound Professionals' offerings.

I will most likely purchase the extra power source to enhance mic recording.

MY NEEDS: I plan to record crickets at night, thunder, myself practicing drums, live drum circles, my 3 kids under 3 yrs old, my own (LOUD!!) progressive rock band (line in from the sound board AND ambient room mic), etc. You get the idea.

MY QUESTIONS: Omnidirectional, uni, single point, cardioid....? What does this all mean to me for my purposes? Anybody have experience with Sound Pros' "T" mics, SPSM-1? Or the goose neck-like ones, SPSM-4?

dex- You (among others!!) seem to be well versed and forthcoming in this forum. I'd value your opinion.

A440- Would the Radio Shack device you recommend be useful to me in my setup?

Thanks all for being so helpful.

GREG

Kaotic · August 30, 2004

Ready to buy a Sony NH900. [$269 from B&H Photo (online) in NY]

if you are set your sight on NH900. hmmm.. would you mind, send your extra $30 my way? hehe..J/K

seriously though, order it from Datavis. they are in NY too..but only cost you $239 online. but heck, if you are willing to spend extra $30 for the same thing.. go right ahead. :laugh:

*mgdimo* · August 30, 2004

Kaotic, Thanks for the tip on Datavis. I'll investigate. What do you think about mics for my recording situations? Needless to say, the extra money will go there. Sorry!!

GREG

**Reactive** · August 30, 2004

if your interested in hearing a really cool cricket sound head on over to our site

http://www.reactivesounds.com/soundpack.php and listen to the track called cricket love.

This was recorded with one of our early models (SM-1) which has now been replaced by the Auris microphone system. A small but freindly cricket landed on our doorway, and took up a residency. I gently captured the creature and made a small temporary shelter for him. This was a plastic tupperware sandwich box. The lid was punched with holes to allow airlflow, and the inside was covered with some of the local plant life we have around here in beautiful british columbia. I placed a Omni-directional mono mic into the lid of the box (facing into the area that housed the cricket).

I waited, and waited and waited. No cricket chirp. Mintues turned into hours and still nothing. Hmmmmm how do you get a cricket to sing, I wondered. Simple!!! Play the sound of another cricket. I searched the web and found a short cricket recording, and played this back through a set of computer monitor speakers. Success!! The cricket began to call, and began to sing. I was able to record about one hour of useable material. I then released my new friend into the wild.

The really interesting thing about this recording is the frequency and duration of each short call, it's really quite amazing how these tiny little critters can nail a beat bang on, each and every time. I'd swear it was mechanically timed. If you download the media file and look at the wav form you will be able to see just how precise and tight the timing really is.

One of nature's great wonders.

A440 · August 30, 2004

You shouldn't need the Radio Shack gizmo because all the Hi-MD recorders have mic sensitivity switches.

[edit: SECOND THOUGHTS ON THIS BELOW]

For the uses you mention you'd probably want omnis. Omni's (or binaurals) hear more or less like your ears. Cardioids are directional, which makes them useful for isolating a sound from surrounding noises--recording a band from a faraway seat in an arena, or close-miking a guitar in the middle of a band--but it seems you want a full all-around sound for most of your uses.

Stereo mics will give you a far more realistic and listenable sound than mono, with depth, and you might as well get a pair that you can separate rather than a one-point or a T mic (two little mics in one enclosure). Putting them just six inches apart, like your ears, makes a world of difference in fullness, and offers you more flexibility in general--you can always put them close together, but you can't separate one-points.

Don't get a mic that sits directly on the machine because you'll get machine vibration--you want it separated by a length of cord. If you're recording quiet ambient sounds you might want to put the MD inside a doorway or window and the mics outside, another reason for a cord.

As price goes up you'll get lower self-noise in mics, which will help with those crickets. For the other sources you mention, basic binaurals will do the job and a higher budget will give you additional refinement.

Sound Professionals and Microphone Madness are pretty much the same design and microphone elements, so check prices. Reactive Sounds advertises quieter enclosures, so if you're really into recording quiet ambient sounds, you might check them out too.

And by the way, I was also considering Datavis but a lot of their feedback says that they tend to sell you something and then tell you it's out of stock. Call them first to make sure they actually have the unit before sending them the money.

Jammin72 · August 31, 2004

Good luck with your rig! The problem that you've got is one that we come up against quite a bit. Recording a Cricket and recording a Rock Show are two completely different types of recording... mics and machines rarely do both extremes well. If you get a recorder that can handle the SPL then a lot of the time you won't have enough gain for the softer stuff or the self-noise of the preamps gets annoying. If you've got a great soft sound setup then a PA system will clip most inexpensive systems. With that being said... There's some good recommendation here. Any of the omnidirectional "Stealth" mics are a good choice be it from Oade, Sound Professionals, Reactive or any of the others that cater to this type of need. I would add that in the purchase of the mic that you pick up a "Line Out" style battery box for your mics. Most of the little omnis can be powered by the "plug in" power supplied by the MiniDisc Recorders, you don't technically need the box for much recording but you would now have a full spectrum setup. You'll have the ability to use the recorder directly in ether High or Low sensitivity for a good bit of your work but for the very high SPL stuff shoot for the battery box going into the "line In" on your recorder. You'll end up with a cleaner sound with no chance of overloading the Units onboard Pre!

Happy Taping!

One other tip... when using the omnis if you can't get a good spread on the mics you can use something as an acoustic baffle between the pair, kind of like an impromptu jecklin disc, that will give you a larger image and greater stereo separation.

Love and Light,

Ben

**Reactive** · August 31, 2004

My apologies for giving a bad link in my last post (re-cricket)

if you click on the sound effects drop down menu and select open country http://www.reactivesounds.com/soundpack.php you'll see a list of recordings we have made. The one called "Cricket love" is what you should have listened to.

*mgdimo* · September 1, 2004

Thanks for the informative replies. Keep 'em coming!

Datavis lists the NH900 as "out of stock."

I did go ahead and purchase one from B&H for $249, not $269 as I initially listed. With tax and shipping I'm in for $278. That seemed to be the best price for a new machine from a reliable source.

Next area of focus- mics. I don't know how important stereo separation will be to me. Say I record my band with the MD placed in the 5th row of the audience. For argument's sake, guitar is stage left, and drums are st. right. With stereo omni binaurals [most highly recommended to me, I think?] will I hear the guitar primarily through the right headphone, and the drums moreso through the left upon playback? That's what is meant by stereo separation? Where do I place the mics if they're not clipped to my shirt? Is there a 'mic placement' thread on this forum?

Reactive: the cricket recording is AWESOME. I was thinking I'd like to experiment with placing the mic(s) outside close to one crick, so I'd have its chirp in the foreground and the rest of the cricket conversation in the background. We have dense cricket chatter this time of year. Anyway, this would just be curious experimentation. My main reason for even purchasing a MD is to get the best possible ambient recordings of myself playing drums in many different settings and to record my adorable children's voices. Thanks for entertaining my questions!

GREG

**Reactive** · September 1, 2004

Hi Greg,

You'll most likely not hear the difference in the left and right field from the show, because most show's playback in mono. This is done mainly for the crowd who often cannot move around freely once they are in the venue. A mono playback system ensures that all of the audience no matter where they sit will hear a full balanced mix.

So why not simply record with a mono mic then? Well it turns out that even recording a mono show with stereo mic's is way better than recording a show with just one mono mic. It helps to understand that the microphones hear lots of other sounds, including one that we humans take for granted...Ambience.

Ambience and stereo imagery are closely related, your mono single mic recording would sound flat, lifeless, and would be clearly missing something (even to a person who has no experience with recording). Not to get confused with close micing like a cricket , in that scenario ambience is not a requirement of the recording. A live show however needs ambience in the recording, even a professional live show recording will have a few mic's pointed to the audience to capture the essence and the spirit of the evening. A440 nails it on the head, place your mic's 6inches apart on a pair of sunglasses or a ball cap with your head placed between them. Place them as high as possible so you don't hear the guy next to you screaming!!

Become very familiar with your equipment, practice lots before heading off to the show. A battery box with line out would be a better choice for recording a loud show than just simply plugging the mic's into the mic jack.

On crickets:

It's also loads of fun to set the recorder on auto stand-by, and place your gear in the middle of the cricket field . Once you have left the area the crickets will begin chattering loudly. Frogs are great for this too, as they seem to shut up when they detect a human presence.

Good luck to you

dex Otaku · September 1, 2004

Greg,

I'm with Gerry on this, re: microphones.. Most shows are in mono through PA systems.

Stereo might be handy to you if what you're looking for is a feeling of immersion when you listen. Crowd ambience et al play a big part in feeling like you're there again.

I have a pair of those in-ear binaurals from Sound Professionals and while I haven't used them to record a show indoors yet they sound quite decent with anything I've tried them with.

The thing about [true + earworn] binaurals is that they're not meant for playback over speakers, though. The recordings you get with something like the SP-TFB-2 mics can sound great over speakers as well but the stereo image is a bit strange compared to normal stereo recordings.

The kind of mics that you can wear pinned to your glasses or shirt/jacket are probably better for bootlegging, IMO. Mic placement in that instance for reasonable stereo imaging [for playback over speakers] has more to do with distance between the mics [small phase delays give separation] and the direction they're pointing [both forward rather than out as with binaurals, as pointing out means everything is in a completely different phase angle].

For recording ambient sounds [nature sounds etc.] I prefer the earworn binaural method as the stereo field is often pretty diffuse anyway - and with surround-sound/matrix decoding you can get some really interesting results on playback. For instance: the back channel with surround is made up of signals that are 180 degrees out of phase - meaning that with the binaurals, which are pointing in almost the exact opposite direction from each other, anything directly to your side ends up predominantly in the rear channel.

Clip-on omnis are great for general-purpose recording. You can use them like binauarals, or as a stereo pair [like a440 suggests], or even as dual-mono mics, or just using one for very close pickup of sounds like for foley use. They are also great as replacements for lapel mics in interview situations.

Where they lack is in situations where you really need a directional mic that can reject sources other than your subject.

For a starter rig though, you should be able to get plenty of good use out of something like Reactive's Auris stereo mics.

BTW - the real treat in making stereo recordings with pairs like this comes when you have the chance to set up for an acoustic gig, like at a small coffeehouse or something, where the crowd ambience is likely to be a bit more subdued and the instruments and vocalists are relying only on their own sound, without reinforcement. Catching an array of instruments set across a small stage from front row can sound pretty fantastic.

A440 · September 4, 2004

I may have spoken too soon about skipping the Headphone Volume Control. I set my NHF800 on Low Sensitivity and Standard MIC AGC (auto level) for a Norah Jones concert, and the bass drum still overloaded the recording, just like on my old MZ-R900.

Perhaps I should have used Loud Music on the AGC--but at a Norah Jones concert it seemed so unlikely. On the other hand, I know the Headphone Volume Control works and I may go back to it. Obviously more experiments remain.

dex Otaku · September 4, 2004

Damn. Norah Jones is good.

*mgdimo* · September 5, 2004

I've never operated a MDR before. I've been browsing my NH900 manual. I've purchased mics and I'm awaiting their arrival. I'm excited to start recording/trial and error, etc. Thanks, as always, to you folks on this forum for your valuable advice.

Fnformation, here's what I've done so far...

RECEIVED: Sony MZ-NH900 $278 (after shipping + tax) from...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...&Q=RootPage.jsp

PURCHASED, AWAITING DELIVERY: Reactive Auris Stereo mics $131 (after shipping) from...

http://www.reactivesounds.com (Gerry, I guess it * $pays$ * to be so helpful here. Sincerely, thanks for the advice. I'm sure they will more than suit my needs!) :wink:

I'll probably take my rig and a few percussion instruments up to the park near me where there's a gaezebo with KILLER natural acoustics. We'll see what comes of that.

My next area of focus will be battery boxes (which ones?) and this "otter box" device. Since I'll definitely be recording my band and my drumming WAY more than crickets and frogs (although I'm intrigued). I'm almost positive one of these things will help me. But WHICH one?

Lastly, does the forum mind if I promote my own band for a moment? I hope not. Let me know if it's frowned upon.

My progressive rock band, IZZ, will be playing an outdoor Progressive Rock festival on Saturday, Sept. 11 (I know, I know) in Rochester, NY. We play original music that is inspired by the bands of the 1970's: Yes, Genesis, Floyd, etc. If you are in the area and interested...

http://www.izznet.com

Come to think of it, how should I bootleg my own gig? Set someone up w/ my mic rig, or go line in off the sound board? Your thoughts appreciated.

GREG

A440 · September 6, 2004

How you record your band depends on what is actually in that soundboard mix.

Does your whole band get mixed through the board? Or are some instruments (drums? guitar) depending on the sound from the stage alone? Some soundboard mixes sound like the vocals up front with the band in the next county.

Also, do you want the sound of the band in a room, which is probably richer but more diffused, or the sound of the instruments directly into the board, which will be cleaner but perhaps sterile and not balanced the way a person in the room will hear it.

The optimum solution for recording live is probably a mixture of board sound and room sound, with the proportions determined by experiment. If you're at a show by a major-label band, you'll usually see a pair of mics somewhere to record the (ambient) room sound. At sound check, you could run both the soundboard mix and ambient mics through a little outboard mixer and test various combos.

Don't put your ambient mics on an audience member, or they'll pick up every cough and conversation. Put them on a pole sticking up above the soundboard where they'll be immobile and out of the fray.

The Otterbox is a crushproof waterproof case, sometimes with mics and a battery box unobtrusively built in, for recording in near-combat conditions. Personally I prefer mics on cords with clips that can be used in various positions. A battery box gives you some headroom for loud music, but if you want to save some money you can use the RS Headphone Volume Control mentioned above.

Even with the low sensitivity option (via menus in the MZ-NH900) you'll probably need some sort of attenuation (limiting the incoming signal) for percussion up close--either the battery box or the volume control. But you could try Low Sensitivity PLUS the Loud Music setting on Mic AGC and see if that provides enough of a buffer. If it does, please post something here.

And just for the hell of it, if you want to try recording with your NH900 before the mics arrive, plug your headphones into the Mic jack (high sensitivity setting)--they'll work like weak mics.

obsideo · December 2, 2004

Hmmm... Looks like mgdimo never came back. And this story was sounding so much like my own. Curious to hear how it all turned out....

*mgdimo* · December 3, 2004

OK obsideo, you've flushed me out of the woodwork!!

As it turns out, I lost a detailed multi paragraph follow up post about maybe two months ago, shortly after my 9/11/04 gig. I don't know what happened but I lost the whole post. BUMMER!! I have to say, I was a little trigger shy after that. But, whatever. We move forward.

Here is a paraphrase of how it went:

So I stopped in Syracuse on my way to Rochester, NY and bought a volume attenuator from Radio Shack. Brilliant last minute purchase. Made my whole recording worth while. I join obsideo in thanking you for the tip, A440.

The equipment I used is listed below my signature. I clipped my mics to a friend's tripod in the front row. Mind you, this was an outdoor bowl-type amphitheater on a beautiful late summer afternoon. From the back (upstage) wall to the audience, it's set up like this: very tall (20 -30 ft.) semicircular cement wall, cement stage, large cement orchestra pit (at the back of which was the sound board), then the large grassy area that slopes toward the stage. So my rig was at the front of the grass area. Yes, there was considerable bounce off all that concrete, especially the wall. But that ended up having a cool natural reverb effect, especially on the drums and cymbals. I am one of two drummers in my band.

Anyway, for my first real attempt a MD recording, having no previous MD experience, I was BLOWN AWAY by the results. Every time I listen back, I feel like I'm in that first row. I don't remember exactly, but I think I used the 'loud music' setting on 'sens high.' I THINK. One of my favorite moments has nothing to do with the music. Someone (seated near my mics) digs into a cooler of ice water for a beer. With headphones on, the sound of someone's hand going into that ice water makes me feel as if the cooler is being emptied on my neck!! It's a spectacular reproduction.

MY QUESTIONS: I can detect that the recorder at times will compensate (compression?) for a loud bass drum or snare drum hit, especially after moments of soft music. Will a battery box cure this? Is there a way I can remedy a problem like this without a b box? Like still using A440's volume attenuator and not having to switch to loud music, LOW sens? I really want to capture all the highs and all the lows.

FINAL COMMENT: Again, having no prior MD experience, I am still BLOWN AWAY by the 1 gig capacity of the nh900. I am now going on months of my band, my kids, rehearsals, etc all on one disc! Can't imagine what it was like before. I just bought five 80 min discs, so now I can organize better.

So, obsideo, what's your "live recording" situation?

GREG

**Reactive** · December 3, 2004

Glad to hear that the Auris Microphone impressed you. We spent alot of time coming up with an attractive, small and yet very functional housing for that microphone.

To answer your question about transient high's:

I always recommend that when recording a loud live show that your use a seperate power supply for the microphones. If you can afford it, a seperate pre-amp will really make those microphones shine. The boost box was designed for this purpose, the clipping led makes it very easy to set your levels (especially in dim lighting situations).

Are you recording in manual recording mode? Automatic is not recommended for concerts because the circuitry cannot react fast enough to compensate for the loud transitions.

Thanks and please keep us in the loop.

A440 · December 4, 2004

The attenuator lowers the sensitivity. You'll get similar results using the low sensitivity mode via the menus, and it might even sound better since you're not adding another connection between the MD and the mic. I'm used to using Hi-Sens and attenuator from my old MZ-N707, and I continue to do it by habit, but you could experiment without it.

Loud Music, as far as I can tell, makes little difference. So try Low Sensitivity, no attenuator and Standard. Blast your stereo and see what you get.

Echoing what Gerry says:

Another variation is to get a battery box and run it through Line-In. If you don't have to worry about security, or you're recording band rehearsals, that will improve things more.

And to amplify Gerry a bit:

The default on your MD is auto gain control (AGC), which is trying desperately to compensate for your drum sounds and making that whooshing noise.

To use Manual, you have to go into REC-PAUSE, go through Record Settings to Rec Volume, set it on Manual and LEAVE IT PAUSED until the music starts, then un-pause. It will revert to Auto again if you hit Stop. (Another Sony stupidity.) If it's a loud show, set the volume around 20/30. You can fiddle with it during the show, but I suggest not bothering. Again, experiment with High and Low Sens with your stereo.

smkranz · December 8, 2004

Following this very informative thread leads me to a couple of questions for live concert recordings, after having just taken my in-ear binaurals (Sound Pros hi-sensitivity model plugged into the mic input of an NH900) for their first test drive at a high school orchestra concert...indoors, in a typical high school auditorium.

Used AGC set to normal, mic sens to low. The resulting recording sounds decent, except for seemingly frequent fluctuations in the recording level (seems to be what A440 was describing above...AGC trying to compensate for dynamic peaks?) Almost makes certain passages sound "warbly".

I will take these mics on the road later this week to record a classical music concert at a conservatory (proud but broke Papa!). Here are my two questions which I hope I get some feedback on in the next day or so...

1. Manual recording level...suggestions? A440, you recommended level 12 in your answer above, did that assume a pretty loud concert? I won't have the ability to test my settings, it'll be set it and forget it (like Ron Popeil). What anyone's best guess for a safe manual setting?

2. Everything I've read about using a battery box to record "line-in" is in the context of a "loud" concert, but I'm not sure 'zactly what that means. As someone pointed out in another thread, classical music can have strong dynamic peaks, but isn't all "loud." I don't have a battery box, so for the purposes of this upcoming concert the question is moot. But could anyone chime in on whether a battery box & line-in recording works well for anything but "loud" rock concerts?

Thanks!

A440 · December 8, 2004

If that classical concert is going to have tympani or full-orchestra brass, I'd use 12. If there's anything bassy, you should be conservative.

The battery box, in my experience, definitely needs something loud to drive it, and acoustic music less bombastic than the 1812 Overture probably isn't loud enough. But I'd be curious about other people's experiences.

aamd · December 8, 2004

I also have a MZNH900 and Hi sensitivity SP binaurals. With no battery box, I have found through testing, that at a setting of 10/30, the microphones clip about 1 db below the 0db level. (Actually, it is not the microphones, but the wimpy supply voltage of the 900.) So, a setting of 12 would make the overall recording louder, but at the expense of some head room. Other than fading out, there would appear to be no reason to use a setting less than 10. (All it would do is reduce the overall range.)

smkranz · December 9, 2004

Many thanks for the feedback.

obsideo · December 9, 2004

mgdimo - little delayed response here...

For a couple years I've been using an MZN707 with pretty good results, with the exception of loud music recordings. (with some exceptions. This is an example of a VERY QUICK - ala plug in mic, press record, set recorder down in the side of the room with all default settings, including AGC running. Not sure why it turned out as good as it did - it's muddy but suprised me still - You can hear the AGC kick in every once in a while but it isn't nearly as bad as it normally sounds when using AGC for music.... check it out - http://www.kl5.us/musicbin/WithInterest_jam.mp3 )

I just got my MZNH1 back and will have a chance to try it out in a rehearsal setting for the first time tonight. So far it's been everything I'd hoped the N707 would be when I got it.... my only concern is not having a backup battery source, but then the player is even LIGHTER than the N707 and the rechargeable in the NH1 lasts a very long time and recharges very quickly (about an hour for a full charge).

I'm using just a Sony ECM-DS70P stereo condensor. I've been looking at those Auris mics for a couple weeks now and am thinking I'll give myself an X-Mas present of those and the Boost-Box sooner than later for all the added clarity and headroom I'm sure they'll give me.

I picked up the attenuator as I mentioned and it works great with my N707 last week. Had I bothered to turn off the AGC I'm sure that rehearsal would have sounded great.

Playing with this setup I'm getting closer and closer to the easiest portable, and awesome sounding recording I can dream of.

Cheers to you guys/gals posting here - this place has a been a great help! :cool:

A440 · December 10, 2004

What you'll get with the Auris, or with the Soundprofessionals basic binaurals, is a much better bottom to your recording. The DS70P states a frequency response of 100-15,000, while the little binaurals go 20-20,000, so you should have a much richer bottom end and a little bit of high end too. (Every octave is a doubling of frequency, so there are more than two octaves between 20 and 100 hz, but less than one between 15,000 and 20,000).

You can get Soundprofessionals from the company itself at the moment on Ebay for $25, which is a steal, though you'll also need clips for them (or for the Auris).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ssPageName=WDVW

I just used a pair of these to make a concert recording--SP binaurals-->attenuator-->MZ-NHF800, hi-sens, AGC and it sounds like a recording studio, unbelievably good.

obsideo · December 10, 2004

Wow - Why on earth are they that cheap.

A related question: In another thread someone mentioned Earthworks SRO mics... Anyone have experience with these? THey look like the bees-knees; obviously alot more spendy but I'm wondering what you gain from something like those...

smkranz · December 11, 2004

Whew...what a recording the NH900 and the Sound Pros. in-ear binaurals (hi sens) made of the kid's concert! I still can't believe the sound...listened to it all the way back home this afternoon on headphones, and now on the CDs I created, and I still can't get the grin off my face. I know I am sometimes easily amused, but after the *OK* high school concert recording the other night, I wasn't sure what improvement to expect by switching to manual recording.

The difference between using AGC and manual control is totally stunning...clean sounding highs and lows, very little discernable noise to my ear, and no upper end distortion I can detect thru even a few prolonged, loud passages. Well, I guess the accoustics in the concert hall vs. the high school auditorium might have also played some small part, but the "presence" these little things produce is unbelievable to me.

Taking stock of the prior posts, I set the NH900 to low mic sensitivity, and the recording level to 11. I was seated pretty squarely in the middle of the orchestra (lower) section...somewhat elevated from the very front, but not up in the balcony.

The concert was recorded in Hi-SP, x-ferred via Sonic Stage, and converted with the Sony wave converter. I then used Nero 6's wave editor to trim the "dead air" before and between various movements, and shorten/fade the applause from the tracks. We now have a 79 min. 26 sec. near-professional sounding CD that two sets of proud grandparents will be happier about than anything they've gotten in years.

obsideo · December 11, 2004

I know it - Isn't the upload (I know so many have waited for this like I have) just FANTASTIC. It took me 30min last night to upload the (roughly) half of our band rehearsal ot the pc, convert, edit, mp3 encode and upload to my server for the mates to grab and hear.

Fantastic. THIS is what I wanted in my N707! I am LOVING my NH1.

Gratz on your tracks - that's a fantastic x-mas present - to YOU to.

aaron_ximm · December 20, 2004

A quick note on AGC: don't use it for recording natural soundscapes! Though I understand it's a pain to disable with the Hi-MD decks, it's worth it to always disable it.

Personally I recommend not using it all for anything other recording lextures and speakers (for which it was really desinged); the way AGC changes the gain during recording is impossible to remove post facto and is a very unnatural effect even in concert recordings.

You're better off setting the gain so that the PEAK levels you expect never get above -12db, or perhaps a tad higher if you are in a very consistent environment. You can always bump the levels later, but if you go "over" with any regularity the distortion is also impossible to fix.

Incidentally the main challenge in concert recordings is usually bass; a switchable "bass rolloff box" that also provides plug-in power for your mics is a very wise investment!!!

Though it's woefully in need of an update to discuss Hi-MD, harddrive/compact flash (MP3) recorders, etc, people interested in recording with their MDs might find the DIY section of my website valuable; see the "links/resources" section of www.quietamerican.org. FWIW I'm a field recordist and have used MD and stealthy binaural-like mics since 98.

Also, if you want more examples of things people have recorded with MD (etc), you might like my collection of submitted recordings at www.quietamerican.org/vacation.html. Hundreds of short recordings made around the world, freely shared.

best regards,

aaron ximm

aka quiet american

*Christopher* · December 20, 2004

Wow, you are my god. I love that site. Please stick around and continue to give us insight, aaron!

*mgdimo* · December 20, 2004

WOW!!! The quiet american site is AWESOME!! Aaron, you've inspired to record more things and more often. All MD users should check this site out!

Sorry kurisu, I know I'm off topic here, but kudos to you too for maintaining such a cool, informative and well kept site in these MD forums. I'm addicted to this place!!

Anyone ever tried recording fireworks? That's somewhere between crickets and rock concerts, no?

*Christopher* · December 20, 2004

Thank you for the kind words. :peace: btw, you know this topic is advertised on the front page of minidisc.org, right? I thought it would help people.

raintheory · December 20, 2004

Along the lines of field recordings... I had quite a time this past summer recording the millions of periodical cicadas (magicicada septendecim) that emerged near my home...

Here is a link to a recording of a very slow-moving train with the cicadas in the background. Did this recording with my N707 and small radio shack stereo mics...

Periodical Cicadas, Railroads

Love field recordings... Enjoy... :smile:

:Edit:

I just realized you were from MD, Kurisu... I grew up there, about ~50 min. west of DC & Baltimore. :grin:

:Another Edit:

Updated the link to the file... Should work now. It is the "short" version of the recording for the time being, but I should have the longer version up soon.

jadeclaw · December 20, 2004

Linky no worky.

Reason: Yahoo groups creates virtual links, that expires after logging out/closing the browser.

Place it on a regular webserver for download.

aaron_ximm · December 21, 2004

Thanks for the kind words about my site too. Always nice to hear that someone's getting inspired.

And please everyone, if you're willing to share your gems, I'm always looking for interesting recordings for that vacations page... www.quietamerican.org/vacation.html

People interested in soundscape/field recording should definitely check out http://phonography.org and also the phonography group at Yahoo! groups. It's quite an amazing bunch of people doing a lot of DIY recording for the pure pleasure of it...

But about fireworks -- the general rule of not having peak loudness events over about -12db (on the old Sonys btw this was indicated by a meter indication going from solid to dotted line...) can be bent a good bit with things like fireworks that are very very short ("transient") loud sounds, you can actually get away with "clipping" (going over maximum loudness on the meter) for VERY short times, like fireworks/fire crackers, if you're careful...

You still have to listen closely though because if the sound clips for more than a sample or two, it will be noticeable distortion.

Beware in particular that the digital meters on MD decks are SLOW to track changes in loudness and AVERAGE what they're getting, so if you are getting peaks consistently at the top of the range, the *true* peaks are probably well above clipping!

<geek>Different MD decks from different companies handle clipping in different ways BTW, my old Sharps did something really odd that was *very* noticable as distortion, but also easy to fix -- they "rolled over" the sample into a negative number; Sonys I think nowadays just truncate the waveforms.</geek>

best

aaron

http://www.quietamerican.org

raintheory · December 23, 2004

I updated the link a few posts back... Should work now.

:grin:

*mgdimo* · December 23, 2004

DUDE!! A link on minidisc.org to a thread started by li'l ol' me?!? I am absolutely proud and honored!! I had a feeling there might be other people out there with similar questions and experiences to mine. Cool!

Seriously, kurisu I tried to PM or email you to tell you this so I wouldn't crowd up the place with this 'non helpful' type stuff. But I couldn't seem to find any way to get to you. I here profiles are back up!! Guess that'd solve my problem in the future.

Aaron, I do hope you stick around. It's clear that you have so much experience and know how. I've really enjoyed MANY a one minute vacation.

GREG

P.S. Is Dex Otaku OK?

tribalwind · January 10, 2005

I'd also like to compliment aaron on his excellent site. im listening to the vietnamese sounds with a coworker,who grew up there and escaped many years ago.

im fairly new to recording,especially field sounds. looking for an mz-nh900 now. i have taken field recordings in the woods,ocean,lakes,streams around my home in long island,and use alot of it for backgrounds in my wood/bamboo flute playing.

this site has me really inspired and motivated to get back out there and collect new samples.

obsideo · January 11, 2005

Quick update to my situation/setup:

I picked up a pair of the Soundpro's stereo binaurals at A440's suggestion, to use instead of my sony mic (in my sig) and MY GAWD! What a difference (and they cost less)!

I've been recording rehearsal sessions lately and my bandmates won't leave me alone about posting the results which now sound NEARLY good enough for posting on our site.. MUCH MUCH more than I expected for simple reference recordings; the highs are so much crisper and the lows are rich rich rich. Now I'm thinking of grabbing a batt-box with level adjustments to give me even more headroom.

*mgdimo* · January 15, 2005

Now I'm thinking of grabbing a batt-box with level adjustments to give me even more headroom.
←

Me too. Well, I was thinking of a pre amp. Which models are you looking at specifically?

Garry · February 17, 2005

Greg,garrysue@arach.net.au

Hi Greg / all, I dont know if this is how to jump in here, 1st time on this site, just hit reply, hope I havent committed some que jumping or bad manners.

I travel to Bali each year and want to record the ambient street,rice fields, markets, nightsounds etc. I have started back the front , I have made a great set of binaurals using light brass tubing, heat shrink and epoxy araldite foer $20 AUS.

Now after reading all the postings Im confused more than ever. I had my heart set on an ols MZ-R50 (bullet proof) I can get one for ~$120 Australian. But Ive read that wen I drop it down onto my PC I will lose sound quality, and that USB is the only way to go. I'm on a very low budget.