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kgallen

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Everything posted by kgallen

  1. At the rear there is a tab that can move up and down in a slot. There’s only one and it’s that one! On your top photo, it's above (when the drive is the right way up on a table) the "SCE 535" label. Yes 17mm belts work perfectly. Did you look at the Russian video? In my link above I give time stamps for each step - but in a slightly later post in that thread. If your symptoms, as you describe, are that the disk will load and eject but with a little manual help, then the load belt really is the culprit! That is unless you are only trying a disc that has a label that is lifting or is covered in sticky nail varnish (the disk in your picture does look like the label is "decorated" with some lumpy stuff!). So did you really get a second E12 from an eBay seller for free just because of this load issue? Oh I wish I was so lucky!!! Those E12s are pretty valuable... Where are you - can I have one of your "spare" E12s? :-D
  2. See my post here on the belt and fitting. As above the belt can look fine but when you take it off it will look ‘lifeless’ and will have no stretch
  3. Just to keep the MD fire alive, happy to report the Sony MDS-E12 and Tascam MD-350 turned in faultless service with a heavy music and sound effects burden for 7 performances of Around the World in 80 Days this past week. Get-out 'til late last night, I'm exhausted! A different show to do in a couple of weeks. Will just need the one MD deck for that. Not sure if I'll use the Sony or the Tascam. Would prefer the Sony, but the flight case setup is such that it might be the Tascam that does the service. After I'm through with these, I'll be back looking at this E10 issue and hope to have a fix for it. Would love to have the E12 and the E10 racked together for these gigs... Kevin
  4. Hi Chrislisa, Your latest photos seem to be of the display/buttons PCB rather than the minidisc drive PCB. As Stephen says, if the RV102 pot does exist then it should be in an accessible position for adjustment when the MD drive unit is in one piece and working. This is likely to be when the drive is not within a deck, but fully intact as a drive assembly. If I look back at the photos on your May 28 post, the underside shot of the drive PCB (the one showing the N-2 silk screen) then I can't immediately see an RV102... Neither can I see it on the "peeled open" photo that follows. Neither can I see an IOP measurement header. Hmmm. Kevin
  5. See the video from this thread. The guy on the video is Russian, so you probably won't gain anything by listening (unless you understand Russian), but I watched the video which gave me this tip. Saved my bacon as I wasn't fancying key-hole surgery on a number of machines which is what all the other YouTube videos do! Note you DON'T need to disconnect the OWH cable as he does. Just the spring and the clip on the rear. The OWH will stay with the main chassis. Spring at 0:12 DON'T LOSE THE SPRING! Fine tweezers needed - I just lift out the top "hook" from the metal eye, but the spring probably will fall off the plastic peg at the bottom, so remove it and keep it safe. Rear clip at 1:04 Lift and slide top frame at 1:15 They won't in about 5 minutes when you've done the above!!! Good luck! Kevin
  6. Thanks Stephen! I tried a couple of other discs in both the 440 and the E10. E10 no better. The 440 with its own drive or the E10's drive does have some record hiccups - worse on some discs than others. But you're right - all of these were used discs. I'll take your advice and try a fresh-from-the-box blank one to see what that shows... All these discs work fine in other MD decks (tried MDS-JE520 and Tascam MD-CD1 as they were available). Will see if these decks have any hiccups with anything I manage to record on the 440 with its or the E10 drive... Thank you for the continued support and encouragement! Kevin
  7. Hi Chrislisa, From that manual, it looks like there is no digital readout of the Iop setting and the adjustment in laser power is performed by tweaking a variable resistor with a screwdriver on the BD board. The relevant section of the manual is 4-1-6 Laser Power Adjustment (p9). This is a shame as to me this mandates a laser power meter measurement for each setting of LDPWR ADJUST and then adjusting RV102 which is the variable resistor on the BD board. If I read your pictures correctly, your new laser has an Iop of 53.8mA (for 7mW laser emission) and the old was slightly higher at 54.9mW. This means the current needs to be reduced to avoid burning out the laser. I think this does make it tricky for you as it seems the current needs to be reduced, but without a LPM I don't see how the adjustment could be worked out. We don't even know which way to turn RV102. If your deck is newer than the manual then maybe they've added the Iop report/set feature as under microprocessor control. You'd have to check the BD PCB to see if RV102 is there as a component. If so then you're into LPM territory. If not then it's hunting the Test Mode menus for something with Iop in the name... Regards, Kevin
  8. Would you not try an Iop Write with the current setting for the new laser? Sorry I couldn't work out which picture was which. But in Service Mode you should be able to do an Iop Read, which will report what the EEPROM on the drive PCB will be holding - which will be the current for the old (original) laser that was shipped with the drive originally. Again in Service Mode, the Iop Write menu item should be used to update that value to the one for the new laser. With that done, I would be hoping the drive would at least read a non-blank disc. Kevin
  9. Well it's been a month or so since I posted an update (anyone care?!)... I haven't been fully idle ;-) But I'm not out of the woods yet would be a summary, as in my beautiful-condition eBay-find MDS-E10 is still not "road worthy". As ever, just recording my findings in case anyone is interested and some of the findings might help others (purpose of the forum, yea!). Bail out reading now if you don't like waffle...! So to recap: I have an "as new" MDS-E10 salvaged via eBay listed as not loading discs. Immaculate condition, but not initialising properly or loading disc or anything further. Replacing the load/eject belt didn't fix things. Damn! The drive in the MDS-E10 is the MDM-7SC which is the "serial control" variant of the MDM-7 range of drives found in a number of the later Type-R (CXD2662) and Type-S (CXD2664) decks. MDM-7SC is not found widely - the E10 is one of the professional range MD desks and so MDM-7SC is not found in the bulk of the consumer MD decks around. I guess it might be in some of the high-end consumer decks, but even on eBay those aren't about at "take a chance" prices! The MDM-7SC in the E10 is a CXD2662 drive, Type-R MLDP, so not the absolute latest (which would be Type-S using the 2664). So what have I done, what did I discover. Following Stephen's suggestions above I looked for another machine with an MDM-7 family drive. Picked up an MDS-JE480 from eBay. Listed as disc load problem. Soon fixed that with a new load/eject belt, so I had myself a working MDM-7S1A drive. So now I can play about with the JE480 chassis and drive and the E10 chassis and drive. Note the MDM-7S1A is a Type-S based on the CXD2664 whereas the MDM-7SC is Type-R CXD2662 based. Baseline: 480 drive in 480 - working fully, i.e. good drive, good chassis. E10 drive in E10 - won't initialise i.e. unknown drive, unknown chassis. Assuming E10 drive fault, but unproven where the fault(s) lie. Put the known good 480 (MDM-7S1A) drive in the E10 (E10's ribbon cables). Deck initialises (progress). Drive takes a (MO) disc but won't read it. The deck seems to try quite hard (disc spins, sled moves, but some OP end-stop clattering) to read the disc but gives up with Read Error. Put the unknown E10 (MDM-7SC) drive in the 480 (480's ribbon cables). Deck takes the disc ok (progress, the MDM-7SC drive can load a disc, I can stop looking at simple electro-mechanical disc detect/load issues). Deck tries to read TOC but fails. Seems to spin the disc in "pulses". Ends in a C13 Read Error and the deck ejects the disc. Put the 480 drive back in the 480. It still works properly so I haven't broken it in the E10 chassis (which could plausibly have had broken chassis electronics that broke the E10 drive). Conclude that E10 chassis electronics could have a fault, but not likely a catastrophic one. E10 drive back in E10 chassis. No change. Deck won't initialise properly. But E10 drive behaviour not changed having been in the known working 480 chassis. Cajole the 480's wide ribbon cable into the E10 to rule out a broken E10 wide ribbon cable. No change. Put 480 drive back in E10 chassis and E10 drive in 480 chassis. Repeat above and get same Read Error issues on both drive/chassis combinations. Repeatable at least and nothing "more broken" than before! Use Service Mode on 480 to read E10 drive EEPROM. Extract Iop, op rec/play and error data and confirm as seen E10 drive in E10 chassis. Match, so drive EPROM is correctly readable. Use Service mode on the E10 to read the 480 drive EEPROM. Good/expected data. This is an I2C link - although there may be another that is used for control (and is the one that results in the IIC STOP message ). Need to find that "other" I2C interface... (remember, as reported above, I got the SCL/SDA signals of the I2C up on the oscilloscope, SDA good, SCL I'm undecided...). 480 drive in 480 chassis. EEPROM read also good in Service Mode. You're wondering why I did some of this... and it's because I'm putting off the time when I pull out my "golden" MDS-E12 (that I must have working, needed for my theatre shows!) and play drive swap with the faulty E10. OK so I finally bite the bullet and fetch the MDS-E12 and cringe whilst I take off the lid screws wondering if this is the last time I see it work... Of course the E12 has the exact same MDM-7SC drive as the E10 so it's a like-for-like swap. I'm just hoping not to end up with a dead E12 to go with my dead E10. Put the E12's drive in the E10 and close my eyes and cross my fingers that there isn't a bang! No change. E12 drive in E10 the same as the E10 drive in the E10. Deck won't initialise. OK so it's possible that the E10 drive isn't completely dead. But maybe there is still a fault on both the E10 drive and the E10 chassis? Put the E10 drive in the E12 (again close eyes and hope for no bang!). E10 drive takes the disk, spins it up and tries to read, but fails with Read Error. So this is consistent with the results in the 480 - which means I can somewhat stop worrying about the slight drive type mismatch (MDM-7SC vs MDM-7S1A) being a core problem. Put the E12 drive back in the E12. Phew. It's still working perfectly. Put the E12 back together and "re-wrap in cotton wool"! :-D So that was all a bit unconclusive... A week later an MDS-JE440 arrives in the post (like the one Stephen pointed to). An eBay bid that came though at the starting price! Again, disc load problems. Out of the box today. Fixed with a new load/eject belt. The 440 has the MDM-7A drive and is Type-R like the MDM-7SC in the E10. A slightly closer match than the MDM-7S1A from the 480. So if I didn't have enough MD decks in the house before, I've now got 2 more - the 480 and now the 440 - both working, although in not-brilliant cosmetic condition - they were after all bought as donor machines. And they are 4xx range so they are pretty low-end, built to get MD decks into the 100GBP price bracket at the time I believe. They don't even have headphone sockets! So I've been playing about with the 440 drive and the E10 drive today. Here we go again. But I'll summarise this time - since I didn't make any notes! 440 drive in the E10. Same as before. Won't initialise. E10 drive in the 440. Now we're making progress! The E10 drive will load a disc, read the TOC and PLAY A DISC! Whooohooo! The E10 drive lives! Whilst typing all of this blurb I've been listening to it play a whole MD, so at least play seems reliable! The story is not quite so good with record however. This is a bit more hit and miss. I can't record any kind of track. The deck/drive will go into record-pause, but when started the deck will give up after a few seconds. I've had a few goes and every now and again the OW head will drop to the surface and it will think about it for a few moments only to give up with E0101 LASER NG message. Most other times nothing happens - OW head doesn't drop and disc doesn't spin. Trying with a simpler "record" activity, I've deleted a couple of tracks - which worked, the drive managed to write the UTOC ok. Also tried to name the disc. This worked the once but I've not been able to repeat it. Often the deck will hang at TOC Updating when Eject is pressed. This needs a mains power cycle to escape. Conclusion the OW head is not dead, and the write function of the laser is not fully dead (despite the E0101). So maybe this is a control or compatibility or some other setup issue? So that's where I'm at as of now. Partially working E10 drive - it loads, ejects, plays, sometimes writes the UTOC. Not as yet had a drive do something useful in the E10 chassis. So I think I'll have another look at the I2C there at some point. [Edit: Seems I might have jumped the gun a little here. Put the E10 drive back in the E10, no change as expected. Put the 440 drive back in the 440 - it's exhibiting the same won't-record-a-track and won't-write-the-UTOC as the E10 drive was in this chassis. Maybe my E10 drive is better than I thought and the 440 chassis has a snag... Ho hum, more variables in sorting this one out!] However not much more of that for now, there's a theatre production for me to do for the next two weeks, with a couple of weeks gap before the one after. The MDS-E12 and the Tascam MD-350 will be in service there, there's a heavy music and sound effects cue list for them to get busy on. Until next time... thanks for reading! Kevin
  10. As I seem to be trying to repair a number of (my) MD desks... are any of the Sony test discs e.g. TDYS-1 available anywhere - or even can a standard MD disc be used to make a clone? I realise the test discs are used for amongst other things for bit error rate checking, and thus a "perfect" disc is desirable, rather than a "second generation" disc that would have a non-zero BER purely from the errors inherent in copying to a non-perfect disc in a non-perfect machine. Maybe these discs are a more fundamental digital data pattern that one that would result from ATRAC encoding of audio and thus my cloning idea is pure nonsense... I'm not sure if any of the test discs listed in the various Sony MD Service Manuals will actually help, but being able to conduct a proper "AUTO CHECK" scan appears to be a good idea...! But anyway, any thoughts anyone? Thanks, Kevin
  11. For MDM-7 variant drives, I've been using the 17mm belts from eBay seller chn_03 (Charles Holt) in the UK. I've repaired 3 decks (MDS-JE440, MDS-JE480, MDS-E10) with these recently. (Charlie was very helpful and sold me a multi-pack of just the 17mm size). https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/17mm-Rubber-Drive-Belt-for-Cassette-Deck-Player-CD-ROM-DVD-Player-etc/192420535089 It's about a 5 minute job to replace these: Unplug Remove lid (4 side screws, maybe 1 rear screw) Remove the drive from the deck 4 mount screws Two ribbon cables from the main PCB Maybe a chassis earth in some units to unclip from the main chassis Use tweezers to lift off the vertical tensioner spring on the left (drive opening facing you) - careful to not let it ping away!!! Ease apart the vertical slider at the rear, left gently and slide to the left the upper part of the disk load frame - and you're in for an easy belt change. Refit is the reverse, keeping the ribbon cables square as you gently reinsert into their sockets on the main PCB.
  12. More specifically this part of the thread if you want to avoid much of my earlier waffle...
  13. I'm in the world of SP/LP2/LP4 MDs - I've no experience of Hi-MD where maybe you go through a "format" stage similar to a floppy disk? In which case my TOC cloning comment is of course irrelevant, sorry!
  14. Excellent - and the reflectivity differences between CD (pit stamped) and MO discs (using the Kerr effect of magneto-rotated polarisation of the laser light, p18) is covered on p12-15. p34 middle mentions the CD/MO switches. It all stacks up now! Interesting case encoding/overloading you describe for the 1GB discs - seems they decided not to use the other case coding spots that were defined for future use. ADIP - the "address encoding" preformed on the disc so the servo knows exactly where the laser is - fascinating! Interesting read that doc, thanks for linking! (I'm an electronics engineer by day, so can make at least some sense of this doc!).
  15. Stephen - don't you ever sleep? Your service to the forum is unwavering! There are two switches that are part of S102 above - the write protect switch is a different switch to the "reflect" switch - the schematic is a little confusing because they can be activated independently (as I found when I buzzed my E10 out last night). As you say the write protect switch aligns with the hole on the disk where the movable flag can be present or absent. The other switch (the white pin) seems to go into the shallow pit on the (MO) disc that is adjacent to the WP hole. I guess on CD MDs that shallow pit is not there. Hold on a second I can check this: my one and only CD MD is Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds (everyone has that don't they???). Yes, looking at the back of the WotW disc case, it has the WP hole open, but no pit where the "reflect" switch goes. So I don't think there is any trial and error by the player - not least the full size machines anyway - the requirement is coded into the pits - or lack of - on the disc case. Every other pit/indentation/hole is the same on the WotW disc compared to a standard MO disc. :-) Kevin ps I put an offer in on that 440 you cited - hope I can get it for the MDM-7 - and that the drive works ok!
  16. Well surely the reflectivity setting is referring to the reflectivity of the disc surface indicated to the controller by the detent or not in the disc case where the white actuator of the pin aligns!
  17. Ha! For future reference, cited in my earlier post: "REFRECT(???)/PROTECT" - if it wasn't such a stereo-typical joke on a Far-Eastern accent applied to English! So cute! I just learned from the MDS-JE440 Service Manual, this is "REFLECT" (not "REFRECT" as in the E10 SM :-D). So this switch probably detects MO versus CD discs, as I guess the laser read power is slightly different for a pressed/prerecord MD versus a re-recordable type, and of course the pressed MDs can't be recorded! S102 - (REFLECT/PROTECT DETECT) HIGH REFLECT RATE/WRITE PROTECT-> LOW REFLECT RATE/UN-PROTECT
  18. Hmmm 440's have MDM-7 eh... Don't you ever sleep Stephen???!! :-D OK so I have a problematic MDS-JE530 upstairs (see other painful posts) - wonder if that chap can get me some info with the E10... oooo, I have the 530 Service Manual, lets have a look (1999 vintage it seems, but Type-R minidisc.org says...). Oh 530 is MDM-5D. Has similar ribbon connectors but the pinout looks like it's different. Shame! But, might be useful as a comparison on some signals. Hmmm... Also has some signal waveforms and a loading motor switch board. Might give me some ideas... (or some blind alleys!!!).
  19. The E10 is a bit barren on the back panel compared to the E12. The E10 has CTRL-S only (plus optical and coax I/O as you say). The E12 has CTRL-S, RS232C, parallel and relay I/O - coax but not optical I/O. Looking at the SM for these, also seems the E10 doesn't have XLR balanced analogue, I'd missed that - will confirm that on my deck when I get home though! I see what you mean about the SIRCS board - it's the PS/2 keyboard connector board, on both the E10 and E12.
  20. Maybe doing a "TOC clone" from another "good" disc would free it up so it can be "reassessed" as a blank disc? I believe TOC cloning can be done on certain full-size machines (some deliberately, some by stealth!) but it depends what machines you have to hand. The minidisc.org listing for a machine will sometimes note such "capabilities" which seems to involve being able to eject a disc with "TOC dirty" in the machine RAM, and writing that TOC to a newly inserted disc. A dirty TOC would normally be written to disc before the machine will eject it, although this can differ on portables that have a clamshell chassis. New MDs can be had for around 3GBP, is this one worth the trouble? TOC cloning: http://minidisc.org/cloning_procedure.html
  21. The silk screen printing on my BD board just says MDM7-BD, but as it's a genuine (I presume!) E10 then I'm also presuming all of the external interfaces work including the Serial Control ports (actually surprised the BD board cares about this I would have thought that a function of the Main Board). Not that I need the SC function at the moment... I might get to the point where I have to pull apart my E12 to do some swapping of drives etc to see if I can trace where the fault may lie. As with other debug I'm really resisting that at the moment as I need the E12 working, particularly as I have shows in June and July where I must have it - so I don't want any risk of breaking it! No point me trashing a good E12 for a broken E10. When I'm through July and if I've still not got the E10 going, then I'm going to end up doing some mix-and-match to track down the E10 issues. I don't really want to break either the E12 or the E10 or use one for spares. I'd like to get both working. The default position at the moment is the E12 is fully functional (hope I haven't jinxed that!) and the E10 working would be a welcome addition. For the June show at least I'll be using the E12 and a Tascam MD-350. But the E10 would be so nice to have so I can rack two 1U units (the E12 and the E10) as my main machines (I prefer the Sony interface - I can get at all features from the machine controls, whereas the Tascam I need to have a PS/2 keyboard to access some functions like AutoPause [grrr]). The Tascam will then stay as a backup, but it's in a much larger flight case with a CD player. But you're absolutely right - I don't know where the fault is at the moment, whether it's on the BD or the Main Board. Swapping bits with the E12 might be the only way to find out if my current debug-foo yields nothing! I'm not sure what the SIRCS board is (or if it's separate), I don't recall coming across that one in the SM. The main guts of the machine are the BD, the Main Board (with all of the audio I/O), the front panel/display and the PSU/transformer boards. Plus small boards for the power switch and headphone jack/control. Frustrating because I think (hope!) there's just a tiny-weeny little problem in there to fix. It's just finding the darn thing!!! In the back of my mind though, I'm still slightly nervous that there is a "from new" issue there, given that the deck seems to have had so little use given it's immaculate condition and the odo counts. If there really is some early-life failure somewhere I might struggle to repair it. But... if I can sniff out the problem and get it fixed, I've got myself another top-of-the-range MD machine to use :-) What other machines use the MDM7 board (*)? It would be worth me keeping any eye out for a spares/scraps machine. Thanks for continued help! (*) My list so far: MDS-JB940 MDS-JB930 930/940 units seem to be doing healthy business on eBay here in the UK, no cheap prices and low bid counts to be seen here! It's nice that there's so much interest still in our beloved MD! :-)
  22. It's just a small plastic end-stop/clip at the end of the laser sled. So I took a look at the I2C on pins 21 and 22 of the 27-way ribbon. The data (SDA, pin21) looks very good. The clock (SCL, pin 22) I'm a bit undecided about. With the ribbon cable out, it's a nice clean square clock. With the ribbon in, it seems to be permanently high with some noise on it. I guess I might not have had my scope triggering properly. Certainly this bus has plenty of bursts of data on it. However from the schematics it does just look to go to the 24C08 EEPROM (non-volatile memory). Both of the ribbon cables buzzed out ok. All three motors on the BD board had continuity (sled and spindle ~5 ohms, load motor ~12 ohms). I had a look at some other signals on the ribbons. Noting much of note there. I couldn't see any activity on the loading motor signals (pins 26/27). I had the lid off of the drive and the motor I could hear operating on occasion was the spindle motor, not the load motor. So the drive is thinking there is a disc in there to run that motor and with the sled/laser focus activity seen. I'm a bit concerned the laser sled usually ends up bouncing against the outside end stop. It makes quite a noise so I'm a bit concerned it's being stressed a bit. Didn't see anything interesting on any of the 4 PCB switches (REC-SW, PLAY-SW, OUT-SW, LIMIT-IN-SW). I need to do some more investigation there. The "REFRECT(???)/PROTECT" switch S102 seems to buzz out ok on both its contacts. I had the drive apart a bit more having a look around. Thoughts are that when you insert a disc you press it in slightly which moves the slider a little. This action pushes through the slider and I suspect onto one of those switches on the PCB. I haven't proven this yet but I can't see another mechanism for disc insert detect. I've not had the guts yet to disassemble the BD PCB away from the drive chassis to be able to see the A side of the board where the switches are. That's quite an involved job needing to remove many screws around the PCB and motor assemblies and I don't want to go damaging wires/flexicables or the laser/OWH. I want to exhaust what I can find out from the ribbon cable signals first. Since all of those switches and the load motor just go out onto the ribbon cable, disc load seems to be the responsibility of the main board rather than part of the servo/laser control which is handled by the main servo/DSP IC151 (CXD2662R) on the BD board. So not much progress but nothing "bad" found as yet... Thanks for watching, as they say on YouTube.
  23. Hi Stephen, It's this that I'm looking for. It must be some kind of switch although as yet I can't find a mechanical actuator that goes from the disc slot to any kind of switch. There are 5 switches shown on the schematic: - S101 LIMIT-IN-SW - Not sure but I don't think this is the one. - S102 PROTECT switch - for record defeat, detects the disc record prohibit slider position. This is the one that has the tiny white and blue pins that align with the dimples on the back of the disc when the disc is seated fully into the drive - S103 OUT-SW - Hmmm could this be the one? - S104 PLAY-SW - S105 REC-SW - This and the PLAY-SW are on the other edge of the PCB. I don't think they are related to disc load. All of these - and the loading motor - go straight out to CN102/27P which I think is one of the ribbon cables. So I should be able to probe these. It also means they are monitored and driven by the main board rather than the BD board, so I need to have a look around that PCB for likely issues. Also I2C comes in on the same ribbon, but it only goes to an EEPROM on the BD board, which will be there to tell the main board what type of BD board it is, and probably holds the Iop/Iow settings etc for the laser. More investigation to do... thanks!
  24. I have an MD-350. I think it's slightly higher end and slightly newer than the MD-301. I have the MD-350 service manual, but it's not as comprehensive as the Sony ones. It lists the MD drive unit as an DYME2Z202B. Looking at the mechanical exploded diagrams for the drive, it looks quite a bit different to the drives I see in my Sony units (MDS-JE520, MDS-E12, MDS-E10). I've read elsewhere, probably on this forum, that the drives in the pro Tascam have more metal components (gears etc) than the drives that Sony use, however I don't know this first hand. I don't see a load belt for example in the Tascam drive drawings. For the optical pickup, the Safety Information section of the SM does indeed list this as a Sony KMS-260A, 4.55mW, 785+/-20nm. For what it's worth as I've just seen it, the MD-350 quotes Molicoat YM-103 as the lubricant grease to use. Hope that helps a bit! Kevin
  25. Spawned out my own fun and games to a new topic to avoid hijacking Jim's thread.
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