aeriyn

Rio Chroma.

I agree. Hi-MD = portable recorder. iPod = portable player. not even the same class of device. So no more trying to compare apples and oranges, kthnx.

some MD bookshelves have 4x realtime dubbing from MD to CD. sony_man, if you are a basshead, the ipod is not for you. The ipod's analog output stage is not an opamp output; it's directly off the wolfson DAC and it has output coupling capacitors to prevent DC offset from destroying the headphones, since direct output from the Wolfson DAC chip puts off half its supply voltage in DC--2.5V I believe. Output caps form a high-pass filter which rolls off the bass with low-impedance phones. Anyhow, iRiver players are known to be somewhat bassy, but if I were you I'd scoop up a Rio Karma. Compuplus was selling them for $175 a little while ago. Personally I think the Rio Karma is the best sounding DAP period... if they were a little less ugly and oddly shaped, I'd be using one of them instead of my iPod Mini.

Compuplus was selling the Rio Karma for $175. I played with an NW-HD1 at Tweeter the other day when I went to get some MX500s to tide me over till I can buy EM3s... I gotta hand it to Sony, if there's one thing they can do and do well it's make stuff SMALL. The thing is just a teeny bit bigger than my mini, and it certainly has style... a sophisticated industrial styling. I still prefer the looks of my mini, but I could see myself with an NW-HDx player if the amp was a bit stronger. Don't mock me about that, I'm used to Rio/iRiver/Apple/Creative and their >15mW amps.

Best Headphones Under $100 US I don't make a lot of money but I managed to get into the hi-fi lifestyle and it did not cost a fortune. Everyone knows that Head-Fi is bad for your wallet, which is definitely true and is the reason for my extended absence from those forums (along with World of Warcraft, haha). Anyhow, I thought I'd like to share this little piece with you folks at the MDCF as a sort of "I'm coming back and I'm done pouting" thread. =P Okay, how I'm going to do this is in four parts separated by type of headphone. If any of you folks have a headphone that you'd like to add to the list, feel free to send a message to kurisu or nismo96. Let's get started. Please note that all prices here are street prices, not retail. Brick and mortar stores tend to sell these for more than the prices I list. Use Froogle, young Skywalker. eBay is also a good place to find these phones. ::Earbuds (open intra-aural):: These are the headphones most people think of when thinking of portable audio. Problem is, there is a metric buttload of bad earbuds and people buy them all the time. Fortunately for us, there are a few great earbuds that are not that expensive. Sennheiser MX400/MX500 - $11-15 These guys are really, really great for the price. Xin Feng raves about these headphones and says they are the best portable phones "anyone can buy." I tend to agree with him; they are simply the best under $20 headphones I have ever heard, period. The MX400 are actually the best to get here because they lack the little attenuator which degrades sound, and they are five dollars cheaper on average. They are harder to find (nigh-impossible in a brick and mortar store) but they are the better of the two. MX500s are still nothing to sneeze about if you can deal with the little volume slider catching on things (which it tends to do). Neither of these earbuds have a lot of bass so if that's the type of sound you are looking for, I suggest you look elsewhere. Sony MDR-E888LP/SP - $45 To my ears these are the best earbud type headphones under $100, sound quality wise. They have a very nice warm and detailed sound signature with surprisingly lush midrange. They are rather fragile though and tend to start sounding bad after about a year of heavy use, and I find the "neck-chain" type cord to be very annoying as the right-side driver tends to pull out of your ear when being active. They come in the remote-friendly short cord style as well as the normal length cord, which is very convenient for users of MiniDisc. Audio-Technica ATH-CM3 - $60 To my knowledge, Audiocubes is the only e-tailer that sells these outside of Japan. They have a nice sound to them but lack the bass impact of the E888s. They come in many different colors and it's fairly obvious that Audio-Technica designed these phones for use with iPod/iPod Mini since the colors match up perfectly. Somewhat plasticky highs prevent these from being my favorite earbud headphone (the honors there go to the E888s). ::IEMs/canalphones (closed in-ear):: Sony MDR-EX71SL - $40 The ubiquitous EX71s... love 'em or hate 'em is the prevailing attitude. Personally, I kinda like these phones. They're totally low-fi... bloated bass and midbass, recessed midrange, exaggerated highs, but they sound "groovy." These are the budget groovalizers of canalphones and it shows in their sound. These phones benefit TREMENDOUSLY from burn-in; I used to hate them to death but I've recently listened to a pair that my best friend Nika has had for over a year and I was shocked at how groovy they sounded. After a good lengthy burn in period, these phones can compete with MD33s and E2cs in the realm of low-priced canalphones. Recommended, but make sure to burn them in for around 100-200 hours before serious listening. Like the MD33s, these do not isolate very well and fit is fairly loose. The annoying "neck-chain" cord comes back again and tends to pull the right-side phone out of one's ear when not using a remote. Also, the supplied extension tends to make the cord fairly long to the point of being difficult to manage. A carrying case/cord wrapper is included with them, fortunately. Sharp HP-MD33S - $50 Again, the only e-tailers that carry these Japanese-made phones are Audiocubes and bluetin.com. However, these are perhaps the best "overall" canalphones for under $100. The E2cs come close but cannot hold up against the MD33's better sound without the use of EQ. They do not isolate very well just like the EX71s, but they do have a nicer, more detailed sound than the EX71s. These aren't exactly groovalizers but they're fairly close to the EX71's sound signature, with less bass, better mids and they're less bright. Just like the EX71s and it seems all MD-designed phones, they're "neck chain" style which causes problems and the extension cord is far too long. Please note that these phones have a proprietary dual-mono miniplug when used without the extension which is only compatible with Sharp Auvi MD players. Modding them for standard operation is simple enough; search Head-Fi for "MD33 mods." Shure E2c - $65 These are the some of the best under-100 phones availabile... IF you can EQ them properly. Un-equalized, these phones are terribly dark and muddy with no discernable highs and way too prominent bass. I do not suggest using these with iPods or with any MD unit or DAP that does not have a good parametric EQ. They are extremely well-built; these phones are like tanks. The cord is nearly three times the thickness of standard portable phone cords and the right-angle miniplug is appropriately bulky and tough. There's not much style with these phones; they resemble large, old-fashioned hearing aids when inserted into the ears. Shure has found a wonderful solution to the problems of cable microphonics by wrapping the cord up over top of the ear, preventing vibrations in the cable from traveling up to the earpieces. It really works well actually. These IEMs isolate very well with both the foamies and the silicone sleeves although the foamies do a much better job. The silicone sleeves are rather painful at first, but after using them for a few weeks, the oils in your skin permeates the silicone material and softens it up considerably. At first I wasn't able to use the silicone sleeves but after a few weeks of using them I got to where I liked them better than the foamies. Etymotic ER-6 (not ER-6i) - $70 I've seen the original version of the ER-6 being sold for this price on the internet several times. Supposedly there's something that makes the original ER-6 worse than the new 6i, but I'm not sure what it is. The ER-6, to me, is the poor man's ER-4P. They don't exactly sound the same... in fact the ER-4P is much, much better, but these phones still have the same Etymotic sound signature... light on the bass, good midrange and fabulously detailed highs. These phones are the exact opposite of the Shures in sound signature. They are not nearly as rugged as the E2cs and more care must be taken when handling them. They come with two types of sleeves, tri-flange silicone and foam. The tri-flange sleeves are automatic ear-destroying torture devices... personally, I can't stand them. The foamies are much better although the tri-flanges isolate better. The foamies tend to muddy the sound a bit, which in this case is good, since the ER-6 has highs and detail to spare. The foamies soften the sound a bit which I liked. Future Sonics EM3/Sennheiser IE3 - $100 A face only a mother could love... these phones take the ER-4P/S's title for "ugliest IEM ever created." However, as I've had a chance to listen to these at my local musician's store (I was shocked they carried them) I've been firmly convinced that these are the best canalphones ever. They have a sound signature that is a happy medium, to my ears, between the Shure E5c and the Etymotic ER-4S. I'm not shitting you. They sound like super EX71s, or a canalphone version of Beyerdynamic DT440s. They are the king groovalizer of canalphones. Of course, not everyone will like this type of sound but for those that do, these are a great pair of phones. Future Sonics sells them for $99 every so often (retail price is $159) and when they do, scooping up a pair is always a good idea. I'm set to buy myself a pair of these as soon as I get some disposable income. On another note, these seriously are the ugliest phones ever created... painted a neutral beige color throughout with no attempt at style or design; these phones are very obviously designed for stage monitor use. However, they worked wonderfully with my iPod Mini at the musician's store. Also, the ugliness of these phones is a great theft deterrent. XD ::Portable/Clip-on supra-aural:: Koss KSC 60ohm driver - $15-40 Koss makes a whole lot of really bad phones, but they made one driver, the 60 ohm driver used in their KSC-35 and KSC-75 clip on phones, Porta Pro/Sporta Pro and UR40 phones that is really very good. They're slightly on the bass heavy side and there's noticeable rolloff in the treble, but not as bad as Shures. Any of the Koss phones that utilize their 60 ohm driver is always a good budget choice. The ironic thing about this driver is that it becomes a savage beast of impact and roaring lows when amped. There are people who will use these $15 phones with $500 portable amps such as Ray Samuels' SR-71. These phones are seriously incredible for the money especially if you are a basshead. Add an inexpensive cMoy amp to these or one of Xin Feng's Supermini amps, and you've unleashed the beast. Sennheiser PX100/200 - $50-60 I haven't heard these myself but many others have. The PX100 seems to be the standard for portable-use supra-aural headphones. Compact and foldable with plenty of style, the impressions I get from owners of the PX100 and PX200 are that these are fairly bassy phones. I can't really say much about them as I've never listened to them myself, but they always seem to be an old standby. ::Full-size supra/circum-aural:: Grado SR-60 - $60 The best headphones for rock under $100, period. These are the groovalizers of Grado, being both inexpensive and having the signature Grado rock-friendly sound. At 32 ohms impedance with a fairly high sensitivty, they are some of the best unamped phones available as well. I personally don't have a lot of experience with these cans, but the few times I listened to the pair I bought my brother, I was really impressed with them for alternative rock and classic rock, which is all he listens to. I found them to not be so good for the brighter 80's female vocals, J-Pop and J-Rock I tend to listen to, however--my Beyers toasted them in that aspect. Audio-Technica ATH-A500 - $99 These cans are 90% of the A900s at 50% of the price. I have not listened to the A900s myself, but that is the typical phrase associated with the A500. These closed full-sized headphones, to my ears, are some of the best headphones you can use unamped. The addition of an amp offers small subtle improvements, nothing like what amping other phones tends to do. I personally don't like the sound signature of these phones, but then again I'm a groovalizer girl, and the A500s are nothing like DT440s. AKG K240S - $90 The "new groovalizers," these phones have not been listened to by yours truly yet, but I intend to get my hands around a pair as soon as I feasibly can. Owner reports suggest that they have the typical groovalizer sound signature paired with AKG's famous lovely midrange, but slightly rolled off in the treble. These cans are well-made and lightweight, very comfortable even though I'm sure that pleather pads would get annoying after a while on a pair of open headphones. Not sure why AKG didn't use velour pads. Sony MDR-CD780 - $99 Yet another headphone I once owned briefly. These have an interesting if bright sound signature. They're fairly comfortable and not very heavy either. They have the typical Sony stylish look to them, but the way they stick out makes the attempt at style sort of fall on its face. Anyhow, I found these phones to be reasonably good for industrial and metal but I didn't like how they were for J-Rock/Pop. Yes, I know that's not very many, but most of these are ones I've either used or ones that are standby recommendations for newcomers into the headphone world. Anyone want to add to the list, sent chris or nismo or myself a message. I'd rather this thread stay clean; keep additions to the list to PMs please.

beyerdynamic makes some very good headsets for broadcast and filmmaking use. I'd use theirs over a "gaming" headset any day.

A while ago someone asked me why I was still here. Good question. I don't need to be here, especially since I'm not an avid supporter or a user of MD. I'm tired of recommending things that obviously will fit a user's best needs and then getting crapped on for it, and then getting crapped on again for defending my position. Unfortunately it seems that you folks want to have your cake and eat it too. Doesn't work that way; when I say what I do about HDAPs vs. MD, I'm not trying to be a bitch. I'm trying to help people get something that will most likely fill their needs best. Unfortunately, everyone seems to think I'm here primarly to bash MD and fangirl the iPod. Sheesh. I don't give a rat's behind about Apple or the iPod. I care that my iPod does what I want in a portable music player, period. If something better comes along, I'll most likely get that. If Sony or Sharp would make MD do what I want in a portable music player, then hey, I'd buy another MD unit. But so far they haven't; so far the only company that's made a player that will do what I want is Apple. So, right, I've heard the not-so-subtle hints dropped by many on this board. It seems like anyone who has issues with MD as a format isn't welcome here and I get sick of being the object of scorn for trying to help people. See ya later, although I really won't.

Actually, me, the PC1 is one of the best sounding MD decks available short of the ES models. It's got the guts of a JB920 in it. And regarding the other comment, fine, I give up. I'm leaving this board. Sorry Chris, but I can't deal with people who want to have their cake and eat it too. You can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. If you don't want to hear me say the iPod is better than something else, don't say something else is better than it.

Eh, DSD is a lot larger, takes up more space than PCM data does. Also, SACD seems to be on the decline as it is. It could be done, though not easily and not with Hi-MD the way it is currently. Sony surely has no portable DSD decoder systems so... there's probably no market for it, either. High-rez on the go would certainly appeal to a lot of audiophile types, though.

Er, I never said anything about headphones. I'm talking about portable amps; the closer the "line out" power (which is just the headphone amp with DSP settings stripped off in portables) is to actual line-level voltage, the better it sounds. Otherwise it sounds amped twice which is no good.

This was Sony's original intent for MD-Data. Unfortunately, they just cost too much. MD Data isn't $2 each. But my floppy drive has gotten no use at all in the entire 4 years it's been in my PC. It's never been used once. If I have a serious OS error and have to boot off of something else, the XP setup CD is bootable. USB thumb drives are inexpensive and very durable, not to mention they work with any computer that has a USB port, which means they work with any PC or Mac. MD can't say this; you can't just hand your MD over to a friend unless you hand him the unit itself as well or he has a unit too. Hi-MD's current write speed is something around 1.5-2mpbs sustained, perhaps 4-5mbps burst. Far lower than the USB1.1 standard, much less USB2.0. And yeah, hard drives are suceptible to shock, but so is anything with moving parts. You can get head crashes with magnetic hard drive systems, and you can get optical pick-up block faults with optical/magneto-optical systems. It works both ways yanno. =P When it comes to durability nothing beats flash memory.

I guess because people are still buying them. What I want to know is why is Sony still churning out DAPs with crappy 5mW headphone outputs?

Uh-huh. Figures. First generation, I doubt the newer ones suffer from this issue considering how I'm sure there's people living in Denver, Colorado and other high-elevation places who own iPods and I'm sure they don't all crash.

Of course. This is an MD forum and if it's not MD, it sucks, right? Just kidding. Right, right, I'll dispense with the sarcastic comments against MiniDisc if you folks are a little more tactful. But I'm not the only one on here who believes the only reason to own a MD recorder is to do just that--record. Personally, I find the hassles of using MD or Hi-MD to greatly outweigh the advantages. But that's just me. If you want to get an MD unit for portable listening and you don't mind the hassle, well I really hope that it works out for you and you feel you got your money's worth. For the most part I try to stay objective about MD because when I used it, I liked it. Yeah, I hated SonicSludge, I didn't exactly enjoy recording in real-time, but I still liked it. However I like my Mini better, because to me it works better. Usability aside, there's not another DAP with the technical specifications of an iPod Mini that actually looks good. Yes, I'm female, I'm concerned about appearance, and I love pink. Sorry if that bothers you. It's not about the fact that it's an "iPod" or that it's made by Apple. It's about the fact that the device fits my needs better than anything else out there. Is it perfect? No, I wouldn't mind some extra storage space, a real parametric EQ and longer battery life. But it's close enough to my ideal portable audio player that it's essentially the best I can get. If another microdrive player is released that supports MP3/AAC and a lossless codec, has an aluminum chassis, has a high power 18mW or higher headphone output, has at least eight hours of battery life, holds at least 5GB, has an intuitive and easy to use interface that is usable one-handed, has a high-quality Wolfson (or better) integrated DAC, is rugged and fairly durable and comes in pink ... say goodbye to my Mini and hello to the new unit. That's how I am. I don't subscribe to a brand just because of the brand. I own no Apple computers or any Apple products except for my iPod Mini. But like I said, if anyone asks for comparisons against the two, I'll definitely input because I've got experience with both formats, but I don't appreciate people getting nasty about iPods just because they are popular. If you've used one and didn't like it, say so. Explain what you didn't like about it, explain its weaknesses. The primary purpose of researching a product is to discover its abilities, its strengths and its weaknesses, and to decide whether or not the pros outweigh the cons, or vice-versa.

No, USB thumb drives are infinitely more convenient. And more durable.

There's no mention of what generation of iPods this guy was talking about. Both my iPod Mini and my mother's 4G iPod 20GB have been in Northern California with elevations close to 5,000 feet, with no ill effects. I think that the newer Toshiba drives are a little different than the ones in the 1G and 2G iPods.

Obviously for better reasons than you are. I'm here because I have lots of experience with MD equipment. iPods are not unilaterally better. An iPod cannot record (iTalk notwithstanding). But not everyone needs the ability to record, so not everyone needs an MD unit. And me, I kind of agree with you about the HD3. Support a few more lossy codecs and a lossless one, put some real playlisting features in or at least an artist > album > song select mode, and bump up the headamp to at least 18mW, and yeah I'll buy it.

160GB? That's it? I was expecting at least half a TB. I've got 160GB in my PC right now! Two 80GB 7200rpm drives on raid 0, mmm fast.

Can we please not start threads with the intention of bashing iPods? I mean, I really don't care if you think iPods suck. I don't want to hear about it though. This site is supposed to be a resource for people who are interested in learning more about MiniDisc, about its strengths and--most importantly--about its weaknesses. This isn't Slashdot, we aren't here to bitch and moan about the evils of Apple or Microsoft and about how obscure niche formats are superior even though we all know that we're only putting them down because they're popular. I personally believe that if you are not going to record or need field recording capabilities, you are best off sticking to hard drive or flash based audio players. I know a lot of you folks like MD because of its perceived advantages, and they may be good advantages to you folks, but not everyone can deal with the massive deficiencies of the format just for those minor advantages. I couldn't. I sold all my MiniDisc stuff to buy an iPod, and I'm much happier with it. That doesn't mean you would be, but someone else might be. So, basically what I'm getting at is: If you do not want to hear me recommend iPods, do not post threads such as "Hi-MD vs. iPod." Because if you do, you're definitely going to hear from me.

No. Garbage in, garbage out. You can have the best amp, preamp, speakers and digital player in the world, but if you're feeding it distorted lossy source material, it's not going to sound very good.

kappa22, now that I think about it, I'm actually not surprised the N10 sounded better to you, for two reasons. One, you're probably not the type who owns expensive audiophile equipment and the sort of audiophilesque "neutral" coloration of the iPod is quite a shock when compared to typical Japanese/Sony low-end products' "no-mid-fi; all bass and treble." Two, the little tiny and crappy headphone amp on the N10 was probably running out of headroom due to its miniscule supply voltage and causing soft clipping in a way that made the music sound "punchier" by smearing the midbass.

Okay, this thread has just gotten entirely too silly.

I think a lot of people, myself included, question too much and not enough.

Well that was certainly interesting. Too bad we can't trust much of what they say since they're biased. [nitpick]ATRAC3 132kbps is nowhere near equal to Type-R ATRAC. Not even close. I'd say LP2 is equal to ATRAC v1.0. That'd be a fair comparison.[/nitpick]

Good point, so long as you don't pay retail price. If you want the best possible sound quality, the HDD players take the lead there. But if you're strapped for cash and need some skip=free tunes that sound reasonably good, MD isn't a bad choice. Actually, if I was in desperate need of a portable unit, I'd go buy me an older MD player. The insurgence of Hi-MD has caused their value to plummet, and they're going for practically nothing on eBay. I see R900s for 70 bucks now... when I actively used mine before it died, they were still twice that much on eBay.